Friday, November 18, 2011

Should Voters Have a Say When Government Wants to Borrow?

By a five-four vote, Northampton County Council last night lent its support to a proposed state law that will allow home rule charter counties to allow the voters to weigh in by referendum when debt is proposed. I oppose these kinds of measures because most of us are, after all, pretty ignorant about government matters, and will be naturally inclined to vote against anything that might result in a tax hike.

That's why we elect others, so we can toss them out for making an uninformed decision to borrow on a matter about which we know nothing anyway.

Most of us simply don't know what the hell is going on.

My 12-year grandson, for example, can name every player at unranked Ohio State, but thinks the country located immediately south of the United States is New Jersey.

Maybe it is.

Executive John Stoffa pointed out that in the event of a sudden crisis like an earthquake, the County might have to borrow quickly, but would be unable to do that if it needed the approval of "We, the People."

Peg Ferraro agreed with Stoffa, but had a strange way of expressing herself.

"It's putting, it's tying our hands at a time when we might - it's putting us under some restrictions that maybe there might be some circumstances sometimes. I'm feeling like California a little bit with Proposition 13. And why just home rule counties? And I understand we're in a different group of people, but it just - hopefully we'll have people here who won't vote for huge bond issues."

Although I agree with her argument, her last sentence may have persuaded dubious Council members to support this Angle-sponsored measure. Northampton County has yet to spend all of the $111 million it borrowed in 2001.

39 comments:

Anonymous said...

Stoffa should veto this. What the hell do we elect council members for.

Anonymous said...

what isn't spent?

Anonymous said...

Good point 2:52...This is just Angle's way of finishing the job of killing off Government before he leaves..Hopefully Stoffa will veto this joke and if not, the new council will abolish this back door way of choking the government to death...Gotta love Angle though..Always thinking up ways of dismantling government so him and the other 1% ers can keep their money..

Anonymous said...

Bernie,

When I see you oppose issues such as this, it gives me hope..Althugh Angle, the Emperor, has been lost to the dark side for years, it's good to see that his sidekick Vader still has some light in him..
Welcome home...

Anonymous said...

Most of the voters I know do have a grasp of the issues. It is not a lack of knowledge or intellect that requires us to elect and trust representative government, but a lack of time and the necessity for the masses to engage in commerce, not government. It is commerce that provides jobs and produces the goods and services necessary for society to sustain and prosper.

In the beginning, all we wanted was a small, limited government to tend to some matters for us, to maintain order so we could pursue (not be guaranteed) happiness. But the concept of limited government has been bastardized and too many now see government as a sugar daddy with a gargantuan goodie-bag, with treats to be doled out by dopes who believe, as you seem to, that they are smarter than those who hired them to guard the borders and build the roads.

I've had enough conversation with the lanyard wearing trough feeders to know most of them would be in line for the morsels they pass out if they didn't have a government job.

Over the generations, representative government has proven mostly that it has outgrown its usefulness. Isolated and unresponsive, too much damage is done before you can throw them out.

Should voters have a say?! Well, we can't do any worse than the geniuses we've trusted so far.

-Clem

Anonymous said...

8:27 -

...Gotta love Angle though..Always thinking up ways of dismantling government so him and the other 1% ers can keep their money..

8:27 AM

That's right. It is THEIR money. They, and/or their forefather earned it, but you're entitled to it, right?

Your position is: Rather than dismantle government so they can keep their money, you would maintain government so you can take their money?

LOSER.

-Clem

Anonymous said...

I don't think Angle is half as greedy as the Gracedale union who never speaks or thinks on behalf of the residents, only on behalf of the employees with the inflated salaries. That Gracedale nurse making $100,000 is pretty close to that 1%.

Alan Earnshaw said...

If we were in Detroit, the country immediately south of us would be Canada!

Anonymous said...

I love stories about Dat. I wish someone had the scratch to get him a decent education, however. Although the majority language is similar. A 12-year old should know the difference between Mexico and New Jersey.

Otherwise agree with your opinion in this post. Voters in a republican democracy should live with the consequences of their actions on election day.

Bernie O'Hare said...

"When I see you oppose issues such as this, it gives me hope."

Actually, all this means is I am less democratic than Angle. I do not believe every thing should be decided by "We, the People." I believe they elect the people who make those decisions, and if those people screw it up, replace them. But exposing issues like debt to the ball is just a way of ensuring their defeat. Taxpayers who will not bother to inform themselves on why the debt is needed, will just say no. Eventually, after a bridge or two collapses, that might change, but I doubt it.

It's also why I believe the voters should have no say in the sale of Gracedale. Am I to take it you agree with me?

I doubt it.

Bernie O'Hare said...

" A 12-year old should know the difference between Mexico and New Jersey."

I think he was tormenting me.

ironpigpen said...

Not to stray too far off topic but ... youth football playoff progress report to be expected soon?

Sorry, but I saw a North Parkland bumper sticker on the car in front of me yesterday and I got to wondering.

Okay, back to the Class Wars stoking envy and hate as well as this discussion about why We The People just can't seem to follow The Constitution and get into such time-honored American traditions such as Limited Government, Low Taxes and Checks and Balances anymore.

:)

Bernie O'Hare said...

I will have a report on Monday.

Bernie O'Hare said...

"Stoffa should veto this"

He can veto an ordinance, but not a resolution.

Bernie O'Hare said...

"what isn't spent?"

I believe it's a little over a million.

ironpigpen said...

Excellent.

Vince Lombardi told me there WAS more to life than football, but not much.

Anonymous said...

"I love stories about Dat. I wish someone had the scratch to get him a decent education, however. "

And I love people who can't tell the difference between literal and figurative speech.

Anonymous said...

HELL NO, that is why you elect people, so you can BLAME it on them. This is a stupid ploy by Angel so he can stay relevant, It should be voted down 8 to 1

Anonymous said...

Referendums on borrowing ultimately lead to disaster like Bernie says. Just look across the river where school budgets are placed on the ballot and always get voted down. So the educational process suffers and Phillipsburg never gets their new high school that was supposed to be built 2 decades ago. IT's probably has doubled in costs.

Anonymous said...

agree with above. is the season over? how'd it end?

Bernie O'Hare said...

The mighty Steelers were knocked off on Saturday by an even mightier Saucon Valley. They will play N Parkland this weekend and then I'll post a report.

Anonymous said...

As a resolution it has no legal force. Stoffa can just ignore it, if he has the guts.

This was just one of Angle's typical FU's, because he lost. The real shame is even though he lost the election, some of these bobbleheads still fear him.

Bernie O'Hare said...

It is not intended for Stoffa, but for the state legislature. Is Angle giving them a FU, too? You Angle haters are nutz.

Anonymous said...

Bernie i think it is an ordinance and not a resolution...better check

Bernie O'Hare said...

You are incorrect. It is simply a resolution.

Lighthouse said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Lighthouse said...

We are republic, not a direct democracy.

Anonymous said...

Clem,

Most of the 1 % inherited their wealth. That aside, when hedge fund managers are paying 15% of their income for taxes while the rest of us are paying 28% or more on the same income it is the system's fault, because they purchased the Government thanks to citizen's united..You beer swilling Fox news watching trailer park Republicans who protect the rich are just ignorant morons..When the 99% take over , ou better hide or you'll get thrown in the Boston Harbor with the rest of the 1%..And no, Bernie, I don't agree with you on Gracedale..If the County wouldn't have blown their money on other departments over the years we wouldn't have this isssue now..If Council agrees to Stoffa's increase, and they give gracedale's monies to other departments, Gracedale will be fine as it is..

Anonymous said...

Obviously I meant to say," if they don't give Gracedale's money to other departments, an agree to Stoffa's increase, Gracedale will be fine as is..

Anonymous said...

anon 9:23 excellent points. That is why people thought Stoffa with his county knowledge would be a good executive, we were wrong. He was so into his "image", he forgot to lead. He also formed to many alliances that created problems in governing.(ie.Angle)Angle. You don't reason with a bomb thrower you reason with the other eight members of council.

I still think the county desperately needs a county knowledgeable peron and people in the next election but with out the leaderless emotional baggage of Stoffa and the vitriol of iRon Angle.

Anonymous said...

9:23 am -

I'd venture to say I'm in the 99%, since I'm definitely not in the 1% you hate so much.

You often label the Fox News watchers "Teabaggers", then tell me the other 99%, in which you seem to claim membership, will throw me in Boston Harbor. You believe all but those in the highest 1% income bracket think like you? A simple look at election results would show you that neither side has that type of support.

Hedge Fund managers paying "Only 15%", (including Obama's buttboy Buffett, whose company is currently trying to avoid a $1 billion tax bill), pay the capital gains because the money yielding those gains has already been taxed as regular income prior to it being invested. Not enough for you to get one suck at the teet, you need another.

Mixed metaphors, poor analytical and math skills. You show yourself as the real "ignorant moron", in the discussion.

By the way, those 1%'ers own many of the factories and businesses (directly or indirectly through investments of their money) that employee the true beer swilling "I want an easy job that pays a lot, makes me think as little as possible and gets me to the bar by happy hour" folks like you. If they inherited it, so what? Someone earned it and it was that person's right to leave it to an heir without worrying about the trough feeders begging taking another slice. That money was already taxed, though apparently not enough for the insatiable underachievers who need someone else to get things for them.

That is your crowd, the crowd that demands "Someone create a job for me. Someone do SOMETHING! Help me, I can't. I can't do much, and I can't be satisfied with what I can do as long as someone else appears to have done better. It's just not fair, it's just not fair, it's just not fair..."

Now, back to your Occupy Something Other Than a Productive Space in Society protest. Smoke a joint, shit on the ground and pretend you've done something worth doing.

-Clem

Chris Miller said...

Clem
You are correct. We have taken a good thing put together by some of the brightest men we have ever seen. Men who believed in divine providence. We have managed to really mess it up over two plus centuries.

Anonymous said...

Clem(Ron jr) how's that inherited wealth thingee foing for you? Hey Chris, I think teachers inflated pensions really screwed things up. Where are teacher pensions mentioned in the Constitution or the Divine Book.

Oh, Oh here comes Gover N. He wants us to go back to the good old days of 1900.

Carry on boys. You are some of the best satire out there.

Bernie O'Hare said...

What is your basis for saying Clem is Ron Jr? Do you know Ron Jr's politics? Do you know whether he even gives a rat's ass about local politics? Seems to me that you are creating enemies that exist only in what is left of your very little mind.

Anonymous said...

Hey Chris Miller hows that fat juicy union pension going for you.

Chris Miller said...

Anonymous
Mr. Dellasandra how's that diet working out for you?. My pension is fine and at least I can say that I worked for my money and my pension. Don't forget I also draw social security. I'm thinking about going into state politics so I can get another pension with full health care. What do you think? Good idea.

Anonymous said...

It would make sense for a hypocrite teabagger.

Anonymous said...

Spoken like the teabagger you are chris miller, do you get health insurance for life also or did your union suck. how about it tick tac what do you think

Anonymous said...

Hey teabagger Chris Miller, its not jack that wants to know.