No. Are we in a serious situation? Yes. Who caused it? Overzealous financiers. What can be done to solve it? Patience. Innovation. Confidence. And reduced expectations, which includes grasping for unrealistic measures of wealth.
Those who think the free market is a perfect device only need to look at every single financial crisis where excessive greed resulted in bubbles that left many in shambles, unless one were astute enough to get out before the bubble burst.
The current situation is nothing compared to the last century's depression.
That does not reduce the pain of those who have suffered. However, I place the blame squarely with those who believe that the market is the answer to everything. It is not. There is more to society that simply economic transactions that produce monetary wealth.
It requires extreme self-command of one's ego. Unfortunately, I rarely see that in people, especially these days.
Scott and the other guy (who has a different point of view). I rest my case, too. I do not declare the government is the pure solution, never have. It is part of the solution, and do not tell me that the market is the whole solution. We see where that gets us.
I have spent plenty of time in the private sector. Made a lot of people lots of money. I have seen my share of unethical behavior, and an "only me" attitude.
You can say what you want. I'll take a communitarian solution any day, as long as it does not include the selfishness that you two espouse.
Drop the “all about me thing”, liberty is not about selfishness; it proclaims the triumph of the individual over the tyranny of the state. When the public empowers the state to solve problems it creates a tyrant, when the public allows the state to define terms it creates a tyrant…. Understand the issue at hand.
Scott, I just don't think you will ever get it. Given what you say, the world will forever be in chaos.
I don't know where you get your information, but spend some time in the real world and see just how destructive pure individualism can be.
You actually experience it around your home. That is the ultimate in pure individualism, and any effort you make to say that something should be done in our neighborhood is an example of social cooperation.
It is the movement to individualism, as I have noted elsewhere, that has contributed to the deterioration of cooperation.
I don't know why you hate government so much. I suspect that if people from your beliefs were in power you would not be as critical.
Free markets are the solution. However, markets are not truly free when there is a concentration of wealth and political power amongst a few colluding parties.
Free markets can only deliver prosperity for all when bad people are not in control of them. Currently, the "free" markets are controlled by very bad people empowered by very bad governments that guarantee zero retribution for those who would abuse the privilege of economic stewardship.
"The current situation is nothing compared to the last century's depression."
But it's getting more comparable by the day, no? Real unemployment in the upper teens, foreclosures soaring, industrial output declining,gov't debt rising vs. GDP. How can anyone look at the present situation and not see parallels to the 1930's?
Your intellectual hubris is showing again. You appear to presume a different point of view is the result of ignorance. Shame on you, intelligent people can disagree and despite what you proclaim on your own blog you seem intolerant of those who don’t share your political beliefs.
By the way, I am in the real world 24-7. What I “experience” here is dysfunctional behavior not “pure individualism”. Ford Motor Company, the westward migration, Thomas Edison, and Micro Soft are much better examples of that. The truth is Mike; if you want to live in a communal environment then nothing is stopping you. I know people who do just that in New York State. The Left however wants to impose communal/universal solutions on everyone. That is tyranny. That is something small government conservatives will always oppose.
One more thing, why so sensitive about the “all about me” line? Isn’t it what you meant when you wrote, “I have seen my share of unethical behavior, and an “only me” attitude. Why should I now drop the implied insult you directed at me?
The reason I posted this blog is bc ghere are similarities between what happened before the Great Depression and what is happening now. I am no economist, but that Daily Telegraph account is frightening.
The Hoover Dam, The Apollo Space program, etc.. Massive public works endeavors that resulted in private sector growth and innovation.
Scott the problem you have is a very narrow and selective view of historical dynamics.
For example, all the free enterprise and cowboy justice in the world did not transform the American west. The Hoover Dam, paid for by all taxpayers, provided water and power. Without it the great western boom would not have occurred.
The Tennessee River Water Authority lit up the South and allowed all you anti-government guys to have a place to congregate in air conditioned comfort.
The modern technology boom and all the major and minor innovations over the past 25 years are derivatives of the American Space Program.
I realize that political banter is fun and political points are scored by who yells the loudest or makes the most obscure or obscene observations but your version of the Rugged American Individualism is more a political invention then a reality.
If you want to be seen as any kind of serious academic, please read a few history books not written by Ann Coulter.
Gee Charles, don’t forget the space program and winning WW2. Public works projects are what governments do, no problem. Bankrupting the country and punishing profit with the idea that massive spending,borrowing coupled with confiscatory taxation spurs economic growth, allows for income redistribution, and/or creates “fairness” is the problem.
20 comments:
NO
Yes.
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/reversion-10-year-average-labor-force-participation-rate-implies-118-unemployment-rate
No. Are we in a serious situation? Yes. Who caused it? Overzealous financiers. What can be done to solve it? Patience. Innovation. Confidence. And reduced expectations, which includes grasping for unrealistic measures of wealth.
Those who think the free market is a perfect device only need to look at every single financial crisis where excessive greed resulted in bubbles that left many in shambles, unless one were astute enough to get out before the bubble burst.
The current situation is nothing compared to the last century's depression.
That does not reduce the pain of those who have suffered. However, I place the blame squarely with those who believe that the market is the answer to everything. It is not. There is more to society that simply economic transactions that produce monetary wealth.
It requires extreme self-command of one's ego. Unfortunately, I rarely see that in people, especially these days.
Best regards,
Michael Donovan
Mike,
The only thing worse than the problem is the government solution.
I rest my case.
Scott Armstrong
Vixen, Your attack is not really that nasty, but Michael has been through a lot recetly. So you'll have to ID yourself.
Scott and the other guy (who has a different point of view). I rest my case, too. I do not declare the government is the pure solution, never have. It is part of the solution, and do not tell me that the market is the whole solution. We see where that gets us.
I have spent plenty of time in the private sector. Made a lot of people lots of money. I have seen my share of unethical behavior, and an "only me" attitude.
You can say what you want. I'll take a communitarian solution any day, as long as it does not include the selfishness that you two espouse.
Mike,
Drop the “all about me thing”, liberty is not about selfishness; it proclaims the triumph of the individual over the tyranny of the state.
When the public empowers the state to solve problems it creates a tyrant, when the public allows the state to define terms it creates a tyrant….
Understand the issue at hand.
Scott Armstrong
Scott, I just don't think you will ever get it. Given what you say, the world will forever be in chaos.
I don't know where you get your information, but spend some time in the real world and see just how destructive pure individualism can be.
You actually experience it around your home. That is the ultimate in pure individualism, and any effort you make to say that something should be done in our neighborhood is an example of social cooperation.
It is the movement to individualism, as I have noted elsewhere, that has contributed to the deterioration of cooperation.
I don't know why you hate government so much. I suspect that if people from your beliefs were in power you would not be as critical.
And cut it with the "all about me," will you.
Free markets are the solution. However, markets are not truly free when there is a concentration of wealth and political power amongst a few colluding parties.
Free markets can only deliver prosperity for all when bad people are not in control of them. Currently, the "free" markets are controlled by very bad people empowered by very bad governments that guarantee zero retribution for those who would abuse the privilege of economic stewardship.
Buy stock in Campbells Soup!!!
Free Market Baby!!!
Scott, you are debating the number of angels on the head of a pin. Your ability to relate your "philosophy" to reality is poor.
Charles
Charles,
What are you trying to say with your post?
Scott Armstrong
"The current situation is nothing compared to the last century's depression."
But it's getting more comparable by the day, no? Real unemployment in the upper teens, foreclosures soaring, industrial output declining,gov't debt rising vs. GDP. How can anyone look at the present situation and not see parallels to the 1930's?
Another outrageous Porkulus bill from Obama, Pelosi, Reid and the Gang.
That is what is needed.
MORE GOVERNMENT CONTROL
Mike,
Your intellectual hubris is showing again. You appear to presume a different point of view is the result of ignorance. Shame on you, intelligent people can disagree and despite what you proclaim on your own blog you seem intolerant of those who don’t share your political beliefs.
By the way, I am in the real world 24-7. What I “experience” here is dysfunctional behavior not “pure individualism”. Ford Motor Company, the westward migration, Thomas Edison, and Micro Soft are much better examples of that. The truth is Mike; if you want to live in a communal environment then nothing is stopping you. I know people who do just that in New York State. The Left however wants to impose communal/universal solutions on everyone. That is tyranny. That is something small government conservatives will always oppose.
One more thing, why so sensitive about the “all about me” line? Isn’t it what you meant when you wrote, “I have seen my share of unethical behavior, and an “only me” attitude. Why should I now drop the implied insult you directed at me?
Scott Armstrong
The reason I posted this blog is bc ghere are similarities between what happened before the Great Depression and what is happening now. I am no economist, but that Daily Telegraph account is frightening.
The Hoover Dam, The Apollo Space program, etc.. Massive public works endeavors that resulted in private sector growth and innovation.
Scott the problem you have is a very narrow and selective view of historical dynamics.
For example, all the free enterprise and cowboy justice in the world did not transform the American west. The Hoover Dam, paid for by all taxpayers, provided water and power. Without it the great western boom would not have occurred.
The Tennessee River Water Authority lit up the South and allowed all you anti-government guys to have a place to congregate in air conditioned comfort.
The modern technology boom and all the major and minor innovations over the past 25 years are derivatives of the American Space Program.
I realize that political banter is fun and political points are scored by who yells the loudest or makes the most obscure or obscene observations but your version of the Rugged American Individualism is more a political invention then a reality.
If you want to be seen as any kind of serious academic, please read a few history books not written by Ann Coulter.
Charles
Gee Charles, don’t forget the space program and winning WW2. Public works projects are what governments do, no problem. Bankrupting the country and punishing profit with the idea that massive spending,borrowing coupled with confiscatory taxation spurs economic growth, allows for income redistribution, and/or creates “fairness” is the problem.
Scott Armstrong
I meant to write interstate highway program not space program. It's early and hot.
Scott Armstrong
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