Elizabeth Fields, Bath's Democratic mayor, was recently charged with stealing more than nine thousand dollars from her church's collection money. Fields had been a Democrat for Dent, and three local bloggers have been lightning quick to note the connection. Lehigh Valley Common Sense irresponsibly slimes Dent by calling him "as crooked as all others." LVDem suggests, in a much more subdued post, that Dent "may not be such a good judge of character." LVAddict also makes the Dent connection, and it's ruining his Christmas.During the congressional campaign, Dent attempted to link Dertinger with former campaign consultant Michael Solomon, who recently spent some time at a club fed for bribery. Although Solomon did some work on one of Dertinger's council campaigns and they obviously met a few times, Dertinger had no reason at that time to suspect Solomon of anything. Dent was mudslinging. Politics is a dirty game.
Now the mud is being tossed at Dent. No one can logically conclude Dent is a "crook" simply because he happened to know or was friendly with Fields. Bath residents call Mayor Betty "a good-humored official who attends local events, supports businesses and throws out the first pitch each year for the Little League team." Thief is not a term they use.
Ah ha! Are Bath residents crooks, too? Are they poor judges of character?
The same "logic" being applied to Dent could condemn an entire community. Bath residents, who know her better than anyone, have elected her to office for over twenty years. So I must part paths with my blogger buddies on this one.
Good people often make mistakes. Fields will have to account for what happened. But I would not be so quick to condemn either her or those who call her a friend. Twenty years ago, I lost my license to practice law as a result of alcoholism. Much of what happened in those days is still a blur. But those people who stood by me probably saved my life. And I would never associate them with my sins. And it is wrong to associate Dent with those committed by Fields.
36 comments:
Bernie:
1) If it's OK for Charlie Dent to attack Charles Dertinger for knowing Mike Solomon, it's OK for anyone else to attack Charlie Dent for personally selecting this felon to be a big part of his "Democrats for Dent" campaign. Dent started this "loose affiliation" standard and should be held to the same standard. Funny, but I don't hear a peep from Dent condemning this illegal behavior! I wonder why?
2) Bernie, I have to WARN YOU that you (and YOUR blog) are under constant suveillance by the Morning Call. Today I had an "off-the-record" chat with Bill White, who was VERY familiar with all of your recent posts and MY participation in them. Last week it was Daryl Nerl (who is honestly one of the BEST and MOST objective reporters in the Valley) who used the info on your blog to break the story about Lisa Boscola running for Congress in '08. And, before that it was John Micek (a deeply embedded reporter in the Capitol news room) who "thanked me" (putting it very, very kindly) for posting that he actually READ YOUR BLOG. (MY BAD!) I think you need to hire John Karoly and enter the witness protection program as soon as you can!!
Bernie,
Why didn't you ever defend Dertinger or Reibman with this much vigor? I'd admirably say your just far less cynical about Dent than I am if you had applied this standard of defense to more public officials. Am I being harsh? Yes, I am, to make the point that no one ever calls Dent out in the media, or it seems, in cyberspace for his brushes with "the dark side." Charlie never had to answer for his ties to past "devilish" characters, and if you had your way, he wouldn't be answering for his current ones. That's poor. We need to question every public official when their ethics is called into question. That's what good government is all about.
Rather than ripping me for your disagreements, try to take the larger point into account. In retrospect, I certainly would agree that all public officials are responsible for their conduct and those they associate with, so while I hated watching the Dent commercials burying Charles, that's how the game goes, so to say.
I just wish you'd be a little more uniform in your defenses/critiques of public officials and their conduct.
Gonzo Bernie,
1) If you accept the premise that it was OK for Dent to mudsling Dertinger about Solomon, then it logically follows that it's OK to mudsling Dent about Fields. But I don't accept the original premise. It's not OK. In truth, it turns people off and suppresses the vote. That's why Lisa NEVER runs negative campaigns. She runs on issues. In fact, Lisa condemned Mann when she started trashing Browne over personal matters that had nothing to do with his fitness for office. I take a dim view of personal attacks. Hard hitting is fine, but it should always be on issues unless the personal problem has a bearing on someone's fitness for office. I guess I'm a Polyanna.
2) As far as your second point goes, they're just jealous bc a sexy lady placed me at #2 in her list of top 10 sexy bloggers, leaving White & Micek to bring up the rear. And that was AFTER I got that stigmata on my forehead. Pikers like LVDem didn't even make the top 10. The MC doesn't bother me so much as the hits I'm getting from fbi.gov. That has me looking over my shoulder. And the little voices in my head. Please ask Micek to call off the hit.
Bernie O'Hare,
Your response to Bernie K. clears much up for me. If your premise for not liking my attack is that it does not have an effect on his physical record as a Congressman, I can fully respect that view point. However, ethics are a very important issue, one that should remain in the light of day for all to see. Now unless I could say that he delivered a government check to Szaborski or Fields in exchange for their support, it is not a physical tie to his job, I will grant you that. With that said, I do ask you, how many ill-gotten characters can one congressman keep around him before we wonder if he's one of them too?
Rich:
Duh? I think I just DID defend Dertinger. And I did NOT rip you for any "disagreements." I have no idea what you're even talking about. If you have a problem with the way the media covers Charlie Dent, your fight is with them, not me. Furthermore, I hardly think Dertinger got "buried," despite Dent's early attack ads. I think part of his loss can be traced back to his own campaign's lack of focus on fundraising.
Bernie:
1) If you're a "Pollyanna," then I'm the fucking Pope;
2) You are 100% correct about Mann's DUI ads against Browne -- she lost points the moment they aired and if she would've done one tracking poll down the stretch, she would've held a news conference and said that she was personally calling for those ads to stop at once;
3) Micek wouldn't put a "hit" out on you if you begged him -- now that he's the father of the most adorable baby girl in the entire world, he's a "kinder, gentler" reporter (wink, wink, nudge, nudge, elbow, elbow);
4) I'm more than intrigued about how your humble blog was rated so highly ... were any sexual favors involved? (Remember you are NOT under oath!)
Rising Sun,
Defend Reibman? You've got to be joking. Reibman is the worst county exec NC ever had. He regularly maced county employees and contractors at annual pool parties. He couldn't even cancel one when a hurricane blew through and people's cars and homes were floating away. And I never attacked him personally. It's always issues-related.
As far as Dertinger is concerned, I did "defend" him when he was unfairly attacked. On September 15, I condemned the attempts to tie Dertinger to Solomon, pointing out that I had met with Dertinger more often than he had met with Solomon. "Charlie Dent was wrong to lash out. Mudslinging can backfire." At the Pen Argyl debate, I specifically asked Dent why he had to go negative. On October 5, I noted that "Dent has been polluting both airwaves and our postal service with nasty personal attacks aimed at Dertinger." I could go on, but I'll stop at three instances.
My point is that nasty personal attacks are irrelevant, no matter where they come from. I don't like it when Angle does it, either. That is a very big difference between the two of us.
What you did on your blog was totally irresponsible, at least from my point of view. But hey, it's your blog. And if that's the way you think the game is played, then knock yourself out. But I won't be part of it.
I've had this discussion several times now. Usually, the nasty personal attacks are launched against incumbent Rs because most of us are Ds. But party affiliation is irrlevant. It's just wrong. It may be good and effective politics, but it's bad government because it ends up suppressing the vote. People become apathetic.
I want more people to voite, not less. You're a young guy and you're saying, "That's how the game goes." With all you vigor, you should be fighting against that kind of politicing. Instead, you're leaping to the illogical conclusion that Charlie Dent is a crook because he knows crooks. That's just patently absurd.
Bernie K.
Sorry for the confusion there, I thought I had addressed my post to Bernie O. I might have messed that up. I can now see the confusion.
I would agree with you that $60k isn't enough to run for Congress. There are numerous other things that could be questioned (as can be on any losing campaign), and should be questioned before the next nominee saddles up to run.
Pope Bernie K,
We both have been cursed with the same first name, which incidentally means "brave idiot." I think that Rising Sun, when he talked about defending Dertinger, intended that for me.
As far as sexual favors are concerned, the title industry is a bit slow these days, so we've converted a title office nerar the courthouse into one of those massage parlors. But I can't get any customers until I shave my back. I've made some money by charging people to leave after locking all doors.
Bernie O:
I am trying to see it from your perspective here, but i'm having a bit of trouble there.
I'm not going to go deep into the Reibman thing because I don't know enough about it to claim any kind of expertise. I was all of 14 when Glen was first elected, so to claim to know enough to debate you on his tenure would be a flawed assumption. I know you fought with him on many issues, and that is a respectable thing for a citizen to do if they dislike the way government operates. I'm saying you just seem to be more forgiving of Dent as a whole. It's just my take.
Would I like to see an issues based debate? I'd love it, it's what I spent four years in college reading books on, writing papers on, and thinking about. The truth is that the answers to societies problems are in policies, not politics.
There's just an awful reality though. Corruption has been a part of the government, at all levels, in all societies, forever. It is not something I believe is rampant. I would not come on here and for instance, say that Lisa Boscola, or Rob Wonderling, are corrupt crooks, regardless of the fact that I support one and not the other electorally. My main point is that I think it's time we cover fairly the ethical questions of Dent. If Charlie Dent had come out after these things happened and said "I'm giving back any financial backing I received from these people," I think I'd be eating my words. Are you right that I was a bit brutal? Probably. Did it get out the point I wanted to get out? Yes. Dent's ethics are debatable, and at very least, explorable. Does it mean that my opinion that he is a crook is right? No. That's fair game to debate. I feel that for reasons other than Betty Fields, or else I would be basing my opinion on one event. That, at least in my view, is irresponsible.
Bernie:
1) THAT is why you will always be my hero!
2) I know a couple landscaping companies in the Valley that have the manpower and heavy equipment to mow down some of the man hair on your back;
3) I am NOT WORTHY!!!
Hey Guys,
I've got a good friend who runs his own landscaping business. I think he could mow pretty well.
Bernie K & Rising Sun, I'll cut both of you in and we can have our own scandal. We can use the shaved hair for Christmas decorations and invite White to come as part of his lights tour and steal all his yoccos. Why let the pols have all the fun?
mmm, Yoccos.... I'm in.
We all make mistakes. When you admit them and move forward, they don't seem al that bad in retrospect. When we pretend they never happen, we ignore the problem, and like an infection it spreads. In my last campaign, I made decisions I knew would inhibit my efforts to be competitive, but i also knew them to be the right decisions to make morally. People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Charlie Dent threw a lot of stones at Charlie Dertinger. Now they are coming back. He made a decision to get himself re-elected, now he has to live with the collateral damage. I refuse to have pity for him. You reap what you sow.
Have I mixed enough metaphors for you?!
How is stealing money a mistake? Especially somone who has been a public servent for as many years as this lady has?
Your personal life is what makes you the person you are in your professional and public life. I too would not vote for Rep Pat Browne because of his drinking problem and DUI. Basically that is saying that it is ok if public officials to break the law because they are good intentioned people and they should be allowed to get away with nothing more than a slap on the wrist, but for me it would be different, I would be held accountable to the fullest extent of the law.
As far as linking Dent this woman, she came out in support of him.
LST, Stealing money is a crime. But isn't it also a mistake? Do you think only bad people do bad things?
And if somebody does something "bad" but it doesn't involve dishonesty and has nothing to do w/ office qualification, are you going to vote against that person?
If that's the way you operate, then you'd at least be logically consistent. But that's not the way I operate, so it would be logically inconsistent for me.
I hit people hard, but I don't like to get personal and it's illogical in my mind to attribute one person's sins to another.
I never said stealing was just a mistake. I referred to Charle Dent's choice of political allies as a mistake. I think LSTresident may have thought I was referring to Mayor Betty. I have personally waded into battle with corrupt elected officials, so I know how that goes. I'm not a Charlie Dent fan, but I actually agree with Bernie that none of us knows the deepest darkest secrets of some we call friend, and we shouldn't be held accountable for their sins.
I agree with you Bernie. I said that this woman came out in support of Dent, not the other way around,so no you can't blame Dent for doing anything wrong unless he knew what she was doing.
If you are holding a glass in your hand and you drop it and it breaks then it is an accident. If you are holding a glass and throw it to the ground and it breaks then you are at fault because it was intentional. I have read nothing that suggests that this woman made a mistake.
No one is asking public officials to be perfect, but if I do something illegal, most likely there will be repercusussions of some sort in my life. It is up to public officials to do thing right all the time because of the power they hold whether it is something bad or not. Not only is it a question of intergrity, but the appearence of improper behavior.
There is so much stealing that has been reported within the last few months in the LV, it is very scary.
Bernie O. and Rising Sun,
There are two problems here:
First, is the fact that so much time is being wasted on such a BS issue. There are REAL ISSUES that need to be discussed!!! Bottomline is that it is very unlikely that Dent had any idea that the Mayor of Bath was stealing from her church. (Logically you do not tell people that you are stealing from others, so why would she tell Dent?).
The other problem is that Rising Sun apparently doesn't think before he talks (or writes) and then defends his position to the extreme. After seeing your posts over the past few weeks I have absolutely no respect for you whatsoever. You make arguments based on heresay. You make arguments based on faulted logic. You make arguments that seem to be based on some misguided sense of morality.
You give the appearance of doing exactly what you feel is so bad about how the Rs run campaigns. Please, do us all a favor, and think before you write. And for heaven's sake, when you are wrong, just admit it.
In the future, Rising Sun, you should take a page out of Bernie O's book and do some actual research. There's a novel idea!!! After all, you are just out of college, and I assume you read and studied during your years at Moravian. (maybe researched a paper or two?)
If you want to attack Dent, why don't you start with his actual Congressional voting record. Not very hard to get a hold of as it is public record. Maybe find an area of interest like his shitty enviromental record (MC reported he was rated lower than Santorum) and tie his voting record to his public persona of being one who cares about the environment. Another area would be Social Security and the fact that he appears to be on board with scrapping the current system.
If you did this you would accomplish three things. First, you would give yourself the credability you sooooo lack right now. Second, you would be doing something to HELP the local D Party, as opposed to being an embarrasment to those of us who are Ds. Finally, you would be helping out your own future. That's right, you should care about the environment because this is your world. On the SS issue, Bush and co. essentialy want you to pay for the Boomers retirment as well as your own.
FYI, I blog anonymously for a reason, so don't come back and make that an issue.
You blog anonymously because your an idiot. You have a lot to say, but want to hide in your little box. I don't really care if you have any respect for me, you don't have to read me then, it doesn't hurt my feelings much.
As for your argument, I still stand by that this is a legitimate issue. I don't know what you want me to admit to? I cited in the initial post what things could not be confirmed, then later came back and posted on my own blog that they were in fact garbage. If you want me to admit that the general idea of my point is wrong, I say again, it's not happening. I don't really care who you are anyway, so you might as well just use your name.
I've already addressed Dent's Congressional Record and will again, so please, save your patronizing, go back to your hole, and don't tell me what is an important issue. Do I think Dent's connections to Betty Fields make him a criminal? Not at all. That would be a wrongful assertion on my part. Do I think it compounds the issues I already saw from his supporters such as Cheney, DeLay, Ney, Enron, etc., that answer is a large yes. The man can't smile and tell us he's a good community man when he sells our community out daily, and his "community" support is from thieves.
The bigger point here is that an issue is being discussed on here that would not have otherwise been. If no one brought up that Dent is tied to these people, no one else would really know about his questionable steps. You may dismiss the Dent-Fields thing, and that is fine, it's for each to make their own choice. Bernie O. is entitled to believe that the $500 Szaborski gave to Dent is not a big deal, i'm entitled to think that's a big issue, and your entitled to read (or not read) either if you prefer. If we don't discuss these issues on here, it is highly unlikely that the Morning Call will ever write about them, to bring them public. It is also highly likely, that if the activists of the Valley do not discuss Dent's issues (or non-issues if you'd like), we all end up thinking he's unbeatable again and not finding a candidate. More than anything else, a repeat of the last two election cycles would kill us all.
p.s.- I know my grammar/spelling sucks sometimes, so don't make that an issue. I used a spell check through college, it makes things easier.
Absolutely. Your free to be anonymous. I'm free to make that an issue then too. It doesn't make you less of a person, it mean I think it shows your conviction.
Rising Sun,
Huh?????
Rising Sun,
For a little more unasked for advice ... name calling on your part only makes you look less legitimate, makes you look like a hot-headed blow-heart, and doesn't help with the real conversation you want to be involved in. As for your poor grammer, if you read what you write before you push the publish button you can catch most of those mistakes.
Second, there are reasons why some of us have to blog anonymously. If you gave it a little thought, you might realize that there are reasons why some might need to blog without attaching their name. Like the position we are at in life (read: work at a job where we cannot be political, own a business where outspoken views might hurt business, etc.). Sorry that I'm not 23 and in a starting position like you are. Been there, done that.
To get back on point, you totally have missed what I had to say. You come off as someone who actually would like to make a difference but you like to hear yourself talk more than you like to do research. If you think that these connections to "corruption" are so important, do the research to back it up. Again, he-said, she-said ain't research.
Go to the basic sources, like the NY Times, The Washington Post, Congressional Quarterly, etc. and start building your case. If you did that, don't you think that the candidate, whomever it is, would be interested in having you on staff? Isn't that making a bigger impact than reporting rumors and calling me an "Idiot" on Bernie's blog?
And if you are looking for a reason why there haven't been any worthy Dem. candidates in the 15th District for the past few election cycles, you need to start looking inside the local Dem Party Leadership. Maybe you should ask these questions:
What was Joe Long doing to find a candidate to run against Dent between November 8, 2004 and June, 2006? Why, after "recruiting" Charles Dertinger to run, didn't Joe Long help raising funds? And just as important, why didn't Joe Long give his $500 check to Dertinger?
To be fair, there really was no leadership in Lehigh County until just recently, so you have no one to blame on that side.
anon 1:15
Bernie, doesn't it matter that Charlie Dent thinks these are the rules politicians should have to play by? Whether we do or not, by his own rules, this is legit subject matter for a TV ad... see the Solomon incident.
Anon,
I'll take your advice for thought. I do not personally believe in anonymous blogging. I doubt that would change if my employer disliked it, I'd just have to decide whether or not to blog then. In any event, I like some criticism of my blogging, so thank you for that.
As for research, I published today exactly why it is I think this corruption matters, along with the best evidence I was able to dig up from the local press, FEC reports, and a few interest groups. The reason I don't like to use the "big time" sources you mention, particularly the NYT/CQ's of the world, is that it brings little new to the table. Maybe I'm assuming audiences here, but I think most of us try to read those regularly. They are not going to report much on Charlie anyway, and unfortunately, our local media won't either.
While I may disagree with you on many things, I must 100%+ agree with your faultings for what happened this time. You're right, we can't fault Rick D. over in Lehigh County for something that happened before him. I will say your right, to a limited extent to blame Joe Long, but do remember, he's not the only chief in town. The party has too many "cliques" right now, all willing to win for themselves, but perhaps not willing to do enough for the party. I believe a lot of people should take the blame for this loss, even to some extent, those of us who ended up working on this race and losing.
Anon 6:15, If you accept the premise that Dent's attempt to tie Dertinger to Solomon is fair, then the attempt to tie Dent to Fields or Szulborski is eminently fair. But I never accepted the original premise. I don't think we do ourselves any favors when we allow ourselves to be distracted by this kind of thing. In the end, it just suppresses the vote. People have yet another excuse not to wrestle with those touch screen voting machines. Thanks for your comment.
Rising Sun,
As the head of the Northampton Dem Party Joe Long is the Chief. Period. It is his job to get all the cliques working together. More to the point, I can tell you from my personal experience that Joe Long acts based upon what is best for Joe Long and HIS "power," not what is best for the Party or the candidates. I have seen it happen first hand.
If you don't believe me, just talk to Jon and Helen over at the Lehigh/Northampton Progressive Alliance. Joe Long decided that he would not help them promote a Candidates Night in April, 2006. Why? Because Chuck Pennachio was going to be speaking at the event. Tell me, how did that help the other 20+ candidates who presented themselves that night? How did his refusal to help promote a Democratic event help the Dems?
If you worry about the cliques, Joe Long is the person who needs to stop that, but, oh yeah, he is the one who works to divide up the people within the Party.
And then, of course, you have to ask yourself what has he done to get people elected to office. Not much. In fact, he worked against John Stoffa, threatened to run an independent campaign for Riebman after losing the primary, and has shown very little support for Stoffa ever since.
Which brings up another key issue: as the Party "Leader" it is duty to NOT endorse candidates in primary elections, yet he does. So ... after working against Stoffa he then had to work with him. Doesn't/didn't really work.
Do we even need to discuss the way he was re-elected by last years committee people and not the new committee people, or did you find that a legitimate use of his power? Or that Politics PA named him the worst Party leader in the State?
Bottom line is Joe Long thinks of Joe Long and not the candidates, does a poor job of getting candidates elected, does a poor job of finding qualified candidates, and causes rifts within the Party. On top of that, his re-election to his post is suspect, if not illegal, and certainly bent the rules.
Yes, in retrospect, there were inevitably issues within the Dertinger campaign that could have been done different. But until Long is gone the only way a Dem will win the 15th is in spite of the fact that Long is there, not because he is there.
Anon 1:16 & 6:04, I just want to clarify something. A blogger has different settings for comments. It's kind of neat. You can moderate or approve every post. You can restrict posts to those by other bloggers. You can make people type goofy letters to prevent spam. I do none of these things.
I like free-flowing conversation and enjoy the interchange of ideas. I already know what I think and I really enjoy hearing from others like yourself or Rising Sun or Bernie takes no Prisoners or LST or anyone else who has something to say, anonymous or not. And some people are frickin' brilliant. Some are funny. And only a very few are dark. So Ilike it this way and encourage you to post whenever you want.
I don't care about the identity of the person making the comment. I understand that some people are in positions that require them to post anonymously. Some bloggers like LVDem or NakedLehighCountyBlogger have to remain anonymous for that reason. I have no problem with that. And telling someone he's an "idiot" simply bc he posts anonymously is inappropriate.
A person can engage in troll-like behavior without being anonymous and some of the best posts on this blog have been anonymous.
So please feel free to fire away. That's what this is all about. I realize I think I know everything but am constantly amazed by the number of people who often know a hell of a lot more than me.
Anon 8:31, Wow! You tell it like it is. I find myself in TOTAL agreement. Long didn't get that worst party chair rating for nothing. Expect to see your remarks turned into a post next week. You put your fingers on the main problem faced by NC Dems.
Anon 8:31,
You bring up many things I do not know enough about to comment on, so I don't want to make much of a response. I've never held that negative of an opinion of Joe myself, however you bring up some thought provoking enough material for me to check out. I know I wasn't at the re-organization meeting, so on that one, i'm lost.
Bernie,
I know you appreciate and understand ananymous blogging, and my comments on that matter were aimed at Rising Sun. I guess he just needs to get a little older, a little wiser, a house, a mortgage, maybe a wife and a kid and a dog, and he might understand why some of us do not, and cannot post our names.
I am glad you will be following up on the Joe Long issue because, in my opinion, nothing changes until his presence is gone from the scene. And if Rising Sun has as much ambition as he says he has to make a difference, then I would hope he steps up to the plate and looks into what I am talking about as well. I assure you, those of us who cannot be public certainly appreciate what you do.
I think you should look deeper into what the judges are up to as well. Everyone seems to be scared of these guys, including the police.
It is bad enough that Judge Moran will admit publiclly that there is racial bias in the system and then knowingly act based on his own bias. But I have heard some real horror stories about Judge Giordano recently. Besides the fact that he doesn't appear to know the law (does he ever make a ruling from the bench?), you need to look into some of the abuses of his position he has been acused of recently.
Maybe The Morning Call and/or The Express Times could step up and do the real reporting here. Hell, John Morganelli and the Judicial Ethics Board should be looking into his conduct away from the bench as well.
Anon 1:15, 6:04, 8:31
blogger ate my post. No fear... i save all posts in word first. It's back up.
I have to start doing that now. I have nearly 300 essays.
Nptn County Workers, I am so proud of your rally on Thursday night! What the public doesn't know when you take a job at the County, a pay scale is presented to you which shows where you start in yearly salary and what to expected each year thereafter. Then you get a politician who becomes County Executive and he decides this pay scale isn't going to apply anymore and thus, you are frozen in time. He, Glen Reibman, was voted out of his office and Stoffa was voted in. Why? Because he spoke with employees in open forum meetings and he promised one of the first things he would do was to get back on track with wages. Well here we are four years later and we have been frozen in year 2003, except the Judges staff and a select few. We employees are Nptn Cty Taxpayers, don't forget that. Lies, lies, and more lies just like a typical politician. So all you people, if you are not working there then obvious you were not promised x amount of dollars through the year only to have it stopped!!!!!
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