Bethlehem Township failed to load its back up documents to the agenda for last night's meeting. Had it done so, the public would be aware that Traditions of America (TOA) is once again on the Green Pond horizon. According to Planning Director Nathan Jones' monthly report, the developer has submitted a "modified Tentative Plan," which reduces the number of homes from 261 to 229.The main entrance has been changed from Farmersville Road to Green Pond Road. The clubhouse has been re-located to the northern part of the development. The buffer space around the wetlands, located at the northwest corner of the site, have been increased.
This matter has been placed on the Planning Commission agenda for January 25. The developer wants all previous waivers and deferrals ratified.
Malissa Davis ran for office based on her opposition to the Green Pond development, yet never said a word at last night's meeting. Nor did any other Commissioner.
28 comments:
Something rotten is afoot.
This is pretty troubling. No transparency at all to citizens and taxpayers.
it was a little mistake, stop being such a conspiracy theorist
LOL!!!
When a government fails to act with transparency, that is not a "little mistake." This is the second time this "little mistake" has occurred and it undermines public confidence and creates seeds of distrust. It demonstrates disregard for the public right to know.
The best way to avoid conspiracy theories is to be transparent at all times. BT dropped the ball here. It made the meeting that did occur a farce bc no one really knew what was happening, outside of the Comnmissioners themselves. I will have more to say tomorrow, now that the back-up documents that should have been provided have been made available.
Had they been out there to begin with, I may not have even noticed that TOA isd back on the agenda and probably would have had a much different story. But I take this stuff seriously, and so should Bethlehem Township, It is no "little mistake."
Was issue ever resolved with residents wanting copies of plans that had copyrights? That bugged me. Anything presented at a public meeting should be public. Residents should certainly be allowed to take photos.
Beth twp. should talk with the LVPC early in this process if they haven't for some of their data on long term (beyond the first sale) viability of over 55 developments based on demographics projections and existing stock we have. Muni's should be concerned with the 2nd and 3rd sales of age restricted if a development has an HOA and private roads.
We have had one HOA in Lower Mac that has asked the township to take back private roads.
Also is this plan by-right?
Bernie you have a right to be upset. These items should be posted and verified long before the meeting starts. Who is responsible for this and is anyone questioning them?
Things won't be approved if every complainer in the township knows about them. It's best to govern behind closed doors. Ms. Davis is a quick study, apparently. It only took her three weeks to go native.
Thank you Bernie. I ready your blog to stay informed and you have not disappointed me yet!
Why doesn`t the county move to preserve this area?
Bernie -when I was a kid I would snow ski on the Green Pond Golf Coarse behind a 1960 Mercury Comet station wagon.We as kids were all over that property when no golf was in season.IN the summer, we would fish out golf balls from the water on that campus. How will developer stay away from the water that rises and not flood building their proposed building will be on .
malissa is a snake, watch her
IN FACT I WAS IN THE the property known as 'THE BLUE' restaurant on William Penn after it was flooded under another name,that had 3 feet of water in the building that exist there now. You can't fight mother nature. She win's every time.
Bernie
it wasn't but a little time ago that the allentown collective collusion of dillsionist did the same thing¿¿!($ I can be redd in the minites addresing city consils consil as to is the just like the secret waterwar metting like the one pryor¿!($
No cohorts working conflicts of intrests in the triboro¿!($
If you redd my post pryor there just might be some more powerful cleaning agents needed to clean the stains from there souls before the meet there maker¿!($
Now they should go in peace and serve there dak lord with OZ behind the curtain!!!$
redd for Republican
patent pending
Who cares about Bethlehem township. They can't even build developments with sidewalks, can you say hillbilly township?
Go to the planning meeting if you are interested. The TOA project needs to go before them before the Commissioners.
I agree with Malissa's comments about meeting comments. Too many discussions go on at Commissioner meetings after courtesy of the floor which is the only time the public can ask questions.
I also think the Township posted those back-ups documents out of courtesy. I don't think she is has a legal responsibility to post them on the website
You can't be critical of something you don't know anything about .
"I also think the Township posted those back-ups documents out of courtesy. I don't think she is has a legal responsibility to post them on the website"
This started happening bc i and many citizens were complaining that we need to see these documents to understand what is happening. Actually, i was prepared to file a revolving RTK. Several repeatedly suggested placing everything on the Internet, and Shafer made a big announcement at a meeting that this would be happening. So I expect her to keep her word, which to me should be more important than the dictates of a statute. And by the way, if you want to play that game, I could start filing RTKs for everything. But I am not interested in playing games. I just want a transparent government. Is that so hard for you to understand?
"I agree with Malissa's comments about meeting comments. Too many discussions go on at Commissioner meetings after courtesy of the floor which is the only time the public can ask questions. "
The you apparently failed to understand her. She made very clear that she wants the public to be able to speak on agenda items as they come up.
"You can't be critical of something you don't know anything about ."
Sure you can. I am critical all the time about things I know nothing about. That's why I'm a blogger. In this case, there is good reason to be suspicious. This is the most controversial plan to face BT in several years, and it just has quietly been resubmitted, with absolutely no notice to the public. Malissa Davis ran for office on this issue and said nothing. Am I suspicious that back up documents were omitted to keep the public in the dark? I would like to think that was an honest mistake, but yes, i am suspicious.
Like always, BT needs the taxes, the money this will generate. They are broke. They will pass this any way they can.
Regarding public comment at meetings:
If you have a strong chair and a responsive board, there should be absolutely no reason to have time limits on comments. If the comments get out of line or repetitive, the chair should step in and politely thank the person speaking.
The problem is that people coming to the meeting want a dialogue with their elected officials. The time limit actually dissuades the board from having a conversation because they can hide behind the clock. In my opinion, it's completely disrespectful not only to the speaker but the democratic process to not dialogue with the citizen. You may not agree with the opinion expressed, but I'd be much more inclined to support someone that would at the very least give me the courtesy of a conversation than someone who decides that they do not have to talk to me.
@4:23 That's a good point that a strong customer service oriented President should be able to avoid the use of a time-clock on residents public comments. We do use a time clock in Lower Mac and it's one of the things that in an otherwise pretty strong meeting policy (IMO) that I don't love.
We often do give residents more time. But you have to stop after being interrupted by beeping. And then the board has to reach consensus to give you more time. Then the clock restarts. (more beeping) Totally jarring for someone trying to make a point.
When I used to speak at the dais as a resident I found the 3 minute beeping totally annoying. Totally disrupted thought process. And I was used to public speaking. I imagine for folks who aren't it's a total barrier. I disliked it as a resident. I dislike it as a Commissioner.
I'll mention we have a strong committee system also. While I do think residents deserve dialogue and acknowledgment of comments at the business meeting, we do often we refer residents to the committees for more in depth discussion. I think that's appropriate. Fact of the matter is that the business meeting is just that. The committees are designed for dialogue. I think most muni's have committee structures. It just varies how well they are utilized.
"The buffer space around the wetlands, located at the northwest corner of the site, have been increased."
Yes, but the detention ponds have not been moved. They are still immediately adjacent to the Marsh, which will drain and destroy the Marsh. TOA and Daub really don't get it!
8:12 PM
What are you smoking !!!!!!!
4:23
I have conversations with the commissioners all the time. Just call them and ask to meet or talk on the phone. There numbers and emails are available I've found them all to be very receptive and open, of course I have yet to reach out to the two recently elected young ladies. In reading Roberts rules of order, public comment is just that, comment, and a time limit is recommened. Most people however want to engage in a back and forth conversation/arguement with the commissioners.
Ron Beitler
Is lower Mac a 1st Class township ?
12:08, People have no obligation to call their commissioner and can choose to address them collectively in a public setting. Public comment is not just that, nor is it simply a courtesy that you magnanimously bestow on the unwashed masses. It is a statutory right specifically conferred by the Sunshine Act. You do have the right to regulate, but not eliminate, the public's right to speak.
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