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Friday, December 30, 2016

Obama's Supposed Pogrom

Blogger Michael Molovinsky , who admits he is a Zionist, is understandably miffed that the United States decided recently to abstain from a UN resolution that condemns Israeli settlements along the West Bank. He paints the story as a question of Israel's very survival, without any consideration of the reality that Israeli Prime Minister Bibi Netanyahu is poking at a hornet's nest. But where he really loses all perspective when he claims that opposition to any new settlement is akin to a pogrom.

I completely sympathize with Israel. There is no way that Israel should relinquish control of the West Bank borders at this juncture because Molovinsky is right - it really is a question of Israel's very survival. What he fails to mention is that just three months before this abstention, Obama agreed to give Israel $38 billion in military aid over the next ten years.

That's pretty strange behavior for someone who is engaged in a pogrom against Israel.
Link to Molovinsky diatribe:
http://molovinskyonallentown.blogspot.com/2016/12/obamas-progrom-against-israel.html

36 comments:

michael molovinsky said...

bernie, i would think that if you want to fairly critique a post, you should link to it. yes, the term pogrom is strong language, but understand the palestinian leader, abbas, praises blood shed over jerusalem, directly inciting violence.

the military aid program, for the most part, is spent with american defense contractors.

kerry droned on about how the west bank must not become aggressive under palestinian control. how jerusalem would have to be open for other faiths. observation and history shown the chances of that being remote.

here is part of abbas's speech on sept. 15, 1916; “We bless every drop of blood that has been spilled for Jerusalem, which is clean and pure blood, blood spilled for Allah…the Al-Aqsa [Mosque] is ours, the Church of the Holy Sepulchre is ours, and they have no right to defile them with their filthy feet.”

Anonymous said...

"sept. 15, 1916;"

Really

michael molovinsky said...

@4:10, thanks for pointing that out. however, if i misspelled pogrom in my first post version, or put up the wrong date here, it doesn't negate from the terrorism faced by israel everyday. the correct date of the speech, translated from arabic, was september 15, 2015.

Anonymous said...

Obama also sold $175 billions of weapons to Saudi Arabia.

Anonymous said...

The UN has raised 20 condemnation resolutions against Israel. They've raised a combined five against the likes of human rights pillars like Iran and N. Korea. The UN is anti-semitic to its core.

Anonymous said...

Bernie if Obama believed in the resolution why did he not vote for it?

Anonymous said...

You have to love the idea that if you want to sell something someone, giving them the money to do so is somehow a 'fiscally positive' endeavor.

In any event, Israel is the only country that does NOT have to spend all of its defense aid in the USA. The rest goes to supporting deadbeat settlers who never work.

https://youtu.be/B6dTDbDpAPc

Anonymous said...

Two sides to every story. Americans are just too lazy to do real research. They are more than happy to let Rush and Hannity tell them what to believe, hence, the majority, particularly the conservatives, are woefully ignorant of facts. The majority of religious right pro Israel Americans only care about the Jews because they believe they are a link to the return of the Messiah.

They'll be more than happy to fire up the gas chambers again once he arrives.

http://ifamericansknew.org/

michael molovinsky said...

bernie has used the word pogrom as a device to borrow this topic for this blog post. besides in the title, the word pogrom does not appear in my blog post. although bernie doesn't like links, it should have been included in his post.

as for zionist, the term has been used against me by an antagonist (not bernie), and meant as a smear. a true zionist moves to and lives in israel. i am an avid supporter of israel.

Anonymous said...

Remember what Obama said in June 2009 in Cairo "The United States does not accept the legitimacy of continued Israeli settlements. This construction violates previous agreements and undermines efforts to achieve peace. It is time for these settlements to stop."

If Israeli settlements were the obstacle to peace that Obama claimed in 2009, why did he wait nearly eight years to do something about them? Because a) settlements aren't the problem?

Also now that he's in the waning days of his presidency he no longer needs to disguise his true pro-Muslim sympathies and can effectively undermine any initiative by Trump to facilitate a middle east sentiment. This action helps firm up his street credibility with his Muslim brothers in the bazaars.

Bernie O'Hare said...

I have added a link to MM's jeremiad. He dos not use the word in the body of his story, but does not have to bc he uses it in an incendiary headline. It is completely inappropriate. Also, MM refers to himself as a Zionist, It makes no difference whether so prone who dislikes him uses the word. It is accurate, as he acknowledges.

Devil's Advocate said...

I often wonder what would happen if the Native Americans would uprise and take over a few states with the help of Russia what our country's response would be. The Native Americans could sight some sacred texts and righteously claim they were the original inhabitants and the Russians could claim they were helping the massacred and down trodden. Of course since non-Natives would lose some rights and properties. Would they be expected to simply accept the situation?

Bernie O'Hare said...

Also, I did not use the word as a device. MM did. I called him on it.

Bernie O'Hare said...

Those who take issue with the us abstention miss my point. I agree that the US should have exercised its veto. But refusing to do so is tantamount to a pogrom ? That is completely absurd. And if you do decide on a pogrom,, you don't give the people you want to eliminate $38 million. MM projects himself as an authority on this topic with some justification, but this was pretty much a poor polemic.

michael molovinsky said...

bernie, i have no idea why you're dwelling on the word pogrom. i really doubt if many people even know it's definitions. the UN resolution will only incite more violence, that's the real point. BTW, you added an address, but failed to establish an actual link to my post.

george schaller said...

Bernie,
MM has his OWN agenda as to all print, I think he is in cohoots with local developmentalistZ as he states he was in property managment locally! This team has been opperating from the core to destroy and dismantel from before itZ beginingZ, This has become the local hostel take over tactiks employed as if this continent was were this particular topic resides? This is how the third world nation unto itself is in the developmental stage triboro siZed infecting life today!
So hopping for opinions in the New Year will come to rise as everyone love an asshole and itZ opinionZ!
REpublican redd
humanist by design

Bernie O'Hare said...

MM, It matters to me what I know, and I know that pogroms are horrible exterminations of an ethnic group, based on their ancestry. It is most often used to describe efforts to eradicate Jews, something that has occurred for at least a millennium. When you accused Obama of a pogrom, you equated him with Hitler and the Russian czars. You both trivialized the horror of a pogrom and accused the President of the United States of embarking on a plan of genocide. You also trivialized your own argument, with which I largely agree. It is completely moronic, and I thought it important that you be called on this slur.

I did not link to your post initially because I simply forgot. When you called it to my attention, I was unable to establish the link on the device I was using. All I could do was copy the url, and I did that.

Anonymous said...

Mr. Molovinsky,

Please don't make the mistake of estimating the intelligence and knowledge of Bernie's commenters based upon the dim witted gaggle who frequent your own. No one here is claiming they do their weekly shopping at an Acme that closed more than a decade ago.

Anyone here unsure of what the term 'pogrom' means would look it up before commenting.

I agree with Bernie, your comparison is absurd.

michael molovinsky said...

bernie@10:33, what title i gave my blog post means little to israel and the middle east. i can tell you that netanyahu and many israeli's and jews are upset with obama and kerry. i can tell you that abbas and the palestinians were delighted with the UN resolution, which may well incite more violence against israel. finally, i can tell you that kerry's speech was a blatant political attempt to justify the bitch slap to netanyahu and israel that was expected from obama before he left office.

Bernie O'Hare said...

And none of that justifies your slur.

Anonymous said...

The great failing of the Bush and Obama administrations is a naive belief that if you give people in the Middle East the ability to choose, they will choose democracy to the exclusion of all of their cultural and religious norms. Bush invades Iraq, which was mostly more secular than any other country in the region, destabilizes it to import Western Democracy, and Iraq explodes. Obama destabilizes the region by not support those historical despots like Gaddafi and Mubarak and Assad and the entire region explodes and becomes overrun with the Muslim Brotherhood and ISIS/ISIL. Sometimes it's better the devil you know.

I'm certainly not a scholar on Israel, but to attempt to "solve" the problem at THIS time, with the instability of the entire region, is either utterly stupid or intentional. "Giving in" to the Palestinians is signaling to those committed to the destruction of Israel that it's open season. "Giving in" to the Israelis is signaling to those committed to the destruction of Israel that you need to weaken/attack America too.

The problem really comes to this: Israel can never have a 1 party state because the Jews would be out-populated by the Palestinians and at best, would have no political power and at worst, face genocide. The 2 party state is unworkable because it would maintain the apartheid-like conditions in Gaza. NO ONE in the region really cares about the Palestinians and they are just used as a tool or weapon to attempt to destabilize Israel. These countries and kingdoms certainly have the ability to help support and establish some kind of viable economy for the Palestinians, they just don't want to.

Anonymous said...

It's impossible to find common ground and reach a settlement if one of the parties in the dispute don't want a settlement. That's the problem the British faced after World War II in Mandatory Palestine. The flood of the Jews from Europe after the Holocaust into the region made a bad situation worse, so the British bailed out and we have the mess we have today, basically unchanged for he past 70 years. Couple religious rivalries into the political and secular mess and the problem goes back to Roman times in Judea. Even the Romans couldn't use force to settle all the disputes in the region.

This is not a place where people yearn for democratic governments. 11:18 is absolutely correct. Bush and Obama for different reasons destabilized the rickety dictatorships that controlled most of the region. The Arabs desire to eliminate Israel is the one thing they all agree on, both the Sunnis and the Shiites and without the good fortune of having oil under the otherwise worthless land, is the only reason why we have any interest at all in the region in the first place. Without having a cordial relationships with the Arab sheiks and shahs and kings, and despots that have that oil, our economy comes to a screeching halt.

Putin interjecting Russia into the mess there is also to control the oil. The Russians and Persians never have been friends until recently, and neither with the Turks. But Putin needs to run his oil and gas pipelines to the west where the hard currency is, because Russia needs foreign hard currency. The only thing Russia really makes money on are oil, gas and weapons. Also it can cut a deal with Iran to sell the Mullahs weapons along with India to establish control over South Asia and put the Chinese in a vice as well as influence the Saudis and the Iraqis.. thus having control over that same oil that runs the economy of Western Europe and and can slow the United States economy.

So what does Obama do? He wants to power the United states on "Green" solar, wind and green algae technology. What an asshole...

No wonder Putin sees Obama as nothing more than a pissant to ignore..

Anonymous said...

Do the research. Before the Zionist movement modern day Arabs occupied this territory although both had in biblical times. Google it Zionism-Wikipedia. Neither should hold exclusive rights in these times. One civilization is old as the other.

Anonymous said...

Half of the Israelis see the continued founding of new settlements as counterproductive.

Anonymous said...

"So what does Obama do? He wants to power the United states on "Green" solar, wind and green algae technology. What an asshole..."

Yes since ewe all know oil is an unlimited resource. Also carbon monoxide and carbon dioxide are myths. The ocean and the air is everywhere and unlimited as well.

Anonymous said...

Zionists need to tell Zionists when they are wrong. 100,000 more settlers since 2009 in territory that Barak, Sharon, Peres, Rabin accepted as a future Palestine is deleterious to a permanent peace settlement. It seems right wing Zionists and theocrats because of demography (they have more children than average Israelis) are creating conditions for a permanent war which undermines the very security pro-Zionist supporters seek. Abstaining on a vote to which the US--remember Resolutions 242 and 338--has been committed through Republican and Democratic administrations is not the horror being described. If you are a Zionist, support a negotiated Palestine in the territories or support the overthrow of the British created Jordan and make that place Palestine.

Bernie O'Hare said...

I would have vetoed the resolution, as the US has done to similar measures in the past. But I agree completely that Israel is, as I said, poking a hornet's nest every time it starts a new settlement. I did not find MM's slur to be helpful, and feel his cavalier use of an incendiary word trivializes the horror of the very real discrimination that Jews have historically endured.

Anonymous said...

2:10 Green algae does not produce suffice amounts of energy to power our economy.

Carbon-based fuels do.

Anonymous said...

3:13 Most Israelis would abandon their homes in the land sized in the 1967 war if doing so would be part of a final peace agreement.

The issue is that the Arabs outside of Israel do not want to make peace, they want to destroy Israel.

Anonymous said...

Bernie,
With any luck with the new president elect, may clean up the failures and bond bartering with the worlds childrens childrens debt accured that has been left for them to pay in there future?

Anonymous said...

Glad to see some rational comments coming in around 11:08. People who know at least something of the history of this intractable issue about Palestine and Israel at least add some nuggets of legitimate debate. Btw, if you think things are unstable now wait until the clown show that is going to be president moves our embassy to Jerusalem. As has been pointed out here, most Israelis are against more settlements and Bibi's latest tactics in dealing with the U.S. They will have to live with the consequences on a day to day basis, not us.

One last point, green algae?? Really?? thats your snide response to someone who points out that your head is buried in the sand with regard to the future of energy production.

Anonymous said...

"One last point, green algae?? Really?? thats your snide response to someone who points out that your head is buried in the sand with regard to the future of energy production."

Amen brother, even the US military is doing more and more in regards to renewable energy. They have stated they realize as the largest user of oil they will have problems in the future if they bury their heads in the sand with the reality deniers. Sadly, many of our fellow Americans are just not into real science.

Anonymous said...

5:31

Just google US military paranormal studies for an example of the crazy things the military looks at.

And feel free to invest away. Just do us a favor and use your own money.

Anonymous said...

If you can call Palestine, Israel. You can call anything, anything.

Anonymous said...

America is giving 38 billion dollars to 8 million people? $10.4 million a day...interesting

Anonymous said...

bernie@10:33, what title i gave my blog post means little to israel and the middle east. i can tell you that netanyahu and many israeli's and jews are upset with obama and kerry. i can tell you that abbas and the palestinians were delighted with the UN resolution, which may well incite more violence against israel. finally, i can tell you that kerry's speech was a blatant political attempt to justify the bitch slap to netanyahu and israel that was expected from obama before he left office.

Of course they are happy. Someone is nothing the Apartheid conditions in Israel.