I'm going to stray a bit today. You see, I've been asked to join a Facebook group called "Che Guevara was a murderer and your t-shirt is not cool." As of last night, it already boasts nearly 51,000 members. Here's their description: "This is a group dedicated to all of those kids who proudly wear Che Guevara shirts or hang posters of the guy on their wall; this is a group of people who actually understand history and know that he killed thousands of innocent people en route to undeserved stardom. You don't know anything about him - so throw your stupid t-shirt away and quit trying to be 'revolutionary.'"
I originally dismissed this distaste as just more conservative sour grapes. They've been moaning since election day. (Were we that bad?) The recent release of critically acclaimed Che was probably more than their little hearts could take.
After all, Che was a great guy, right? Just look at all those damn T-shirts. Time Magazine lists him among its "heros and icons" of the last century, right up there with Mother Teresa and The American G.I. He even died like a martyr. He was captured and executed leading some sort of revolution in Bolivia. The CIA may have even ratted him out. That makes him some sort of Commie Christ.
But did he really kill thousands of innocent people?
According to Slate Magazine, not known for its conservative views, he presided over firing squads and started a labor camp system that was eventually used to imprison gays, religious people and AIDS victims. The Epoch Times reports that Che did order the death of several thousand defenseless and innocent people. He killed a few himself. According to his own diary, he blew out the brains of a fellow revolutionary because he suspected him of being an informant. “I ended the problem with a .32 caliber pistol, in the right side of his brain. ... His belongings were now mine.”
I think I'll join that group. I'm very leery of cults, whether it is Che, Rev. Jones or even the Obamaphiles.
50 comments:
Bernie,
I have seen my share of corpses in my life. Some resting peacefully and some just look utterly in sheer pain. I saw one when, I worked at the courthouse, that I had to perform a pre-sentence investigation regarding a homicide. A young woman stabbed her grandmother, if I remember correctly, over 60 times. That woman looked horrible.
But I come to my point. Pictures of Che's corpse are just scary. It takes a lot to get me unnerved. And looking at those pictures render me speechless. This is not a figure of speech, but I really cannot beleive what he went through in his death. He must of been taken by surprise or truly suffered an immense amount of pain.
May God have mercy on all the souls involved in that one.
Peace, ~~Alex
Yeah, I've seen both sides of that Che stuff (I AM at college, after all). My favorite one was a button that said "Che killed people, you hipster douchebag."
But, man, that Che movie with Gael Garcia Bernal? VERY good.
Che was a scum bag psycopath. He was a colblooded murderer. Romanticize him if you want but he was a badman!
Fidel Castro
Bernie,
As a conservative it seems to me that much of the thinking of those on the Left springs from various notions of fairness. From this starting point emotion can often trump logic and a romantic perspective may often overshadow reality. To me this helps explains how the sins of state control can be glossed over as progress and the crimes of those who act in the name of "the people" can be ignored or excused.
For the record, except on the rare occasion, I never wear t-shirts that say anything, I will be no ones billboard.
Scott Armstrong
In the last campaign, our current Vice President, the self-proclaimed smartest guy in the Senate, spoke of FDR taking to TV to allay fears at the dawn of the Great Depression.
Vice President Genius should know better, but he doesn't. He's indicative of an alarming dearth of historical knowledge among most Americans.
Che shirts are fashion statements worn by those who share Biden's imbecility (and Benizio del Torro's).
If some fashion designer decides to promote Pol Pot or Joe Stalin as the new black this year, those shirts will become equally ubiquitous.
CHE suffered horribly in death, just as he made other suffer. He was nothing more than a sadistic serial killer at best and by all accounts a mass murderer. For anyone to wear a CHE shirt as a fashion statement merely makes the statement that they are shallow, ignorant and misinformed. Good, I then know what I am dealing with even before they open their mouths.
I too am one of the 51,000.
Huh, and to think all this time I thought those kids were giving free advertising to Che Mechanical of Easton.
What I find amusing is your last sentences.
"I think I'll join that group. I'm very leery of cults, whether it is Che, Rev. Jones or even the Obamaphiles."
If your leery of cults you shouldn't join any group.
Webster's Dictionary defines cults as "great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book); usually small group of people..."
Just thought I'd point that out. :)
BO, you are a hypocrite!
You condemn the use of images of Che, but you use the symbol of the swastika throughout your blog! They are both despicable symbols!
As long as your straying, how about deleting some of the blog addresses that appear to be inactive or dead as Che.
Laz, You've just provided a nonsequitor.
Cults are groups that display great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book). But not all groups are cults. You know this but are probablty turned off by the reference to some of the fanatic Obamaphiles.
Who me? ;-)
I'm a total joiner. :)
Hey Fly on Shit! I do use the swastika, hammer and sickle and many other symbols for dramatic effect, usually about local issues. If that pisses you off, it makes me happy.
don't forget the cult of the rush limburgers, perhaps the largest, most influential of all current cult-like groups.
Laz,
Nothing wrong with admiration, but some Obamaphiles have crossed the line into Rev. Jones territory. The Obama poster I see is eerily reminiscent of Che and Lenin posters.
Glenn, the dittoheads. Fair point.
Bernie,
Please explain how Rush Limbaugh is a cult and while you are at it why the presumption that his listeners are stupid and/or uncritical thinkers.
Scott Armstrong
Scott,
Just the unthinking use of the word "dittohead" to describe Limbaugh fans is evidence that many of his listeners are just not thinking. I've listened to him a few times. Ar his best, he is sophomoric humor. At his worst, he is a racist and misogynist. And people just lap it up. He really does a disservice to conservative thinking. But I'd oppose any "fairness" doctrine that would require stations to broadcast an opposing point of view bc people should decide what they like, not the government. Also, a fairness doctrine would just be substituting a Limbaugh cult for another.
Many Limbaugh listeners who share many of his opinions are nonetheless turned off by his personal failures (serial marriages, illicit drug procurement) and hypocrisy on certain issues (e.g. drug laws that he fully supports; yet he believes ensnared him unjustly).
Could it be that the listeners are not worshipers of Rush, but adherents of a similar political philosophy, regardless of its espousal by a very flawed messenger.
I don't like Rush, and think it would have been funny if he actually went to prison for having his Guatemalan housekeeper score hillbilly heroin for him.
I doesn't cause me to discredit many of the opinions he espouses, however. They were mine long before Rush started making millions on them. The last election showed that nearly half the country believe the same things.
Dismiss with insults and hyperbole at your own peril.
"As long as your straying, how about deleting some of the blog addresses that appear to be inactive or dead as Che."
Actually, nearly all my links are quite active and I do go through them regularly. I read most of them. LVDem, my first link for local poliblogs, is the dude that started this local blogosphere, so I am keeping that one up even though his/her blog is no longer active.
My rule is to remove a link to a blog if it remains inactive for six months. I did notice two of the nonpolitical blogs have been inactive and deleted them.
I also added a fresh new blog, LVCI, and will have something to say about that tomorrow. I also added some campaign blogs.
Anon 10:21,
Limbaugh's personal life is his own business unless he starts getting all holier than thou. It is pretty much his factual distortions and mean-spirited remarks that bother me.
I found no humor in his description of Halle Berry and Obama as "Halfrican Americans". He has distorted the very real evidenmce concerning global warming, which is really a question of science that should have nothing to do w/ conservative or liberal ideologies. He yukked it up with a conservative caller who compared Obama to Curious George.
I consider time spent listening to him a generally negative experience that just brings out our dark sides. He appeals to a white fear of blacks. A nonscientist, he has no problem preaching the world is flat. He's a false populist, no more the conscience of the right than King Edwin is for the left.
If you're going to wear a Che shirt, why not wear an Adolph shirt too?
Glenn --
Regarding Rush Limbaugh, and I'm a fan (oh yeah, I know boo, hiss and pizz off, before I slap the ever-loving Chris Matthews out of you), whatever his flaws -- he hasn't set up any concentration camps or shot his detractors or those who disagree with him in the back of the head.
Amusingly he's become the very definition of PJ O'Rourke's Republican Party Reptile.
Dump on Rush all you want but he's like Obi-Wan Kenobi to Obama's Lord Vader. The more the Democrat President of the United States tries to cut him down -- the stronger he becomes.
Just saying is all. Peace out and great post Bernie.
Bernie,
Not so long ago I was down this very road on your site with Mike Donovan. He too accused Rush of being racist, you have added misogynist. At that time I reminded Mike that in our culture to call someone a “racist” is a very serious charge (ditto misogynist) and I asked him to back up his accusation with substantive evidence. His response was to refer me to various web sites; I responded with the obvious, he had to do better than that because on the net, amongst other things, I can find holocaust deniers and people who have proof of UFO landings.
The truth is Rush is neither a racist or a misogynist and I can prove this by the simple fact that if he were General Motors and many other responsible businesses would not run adds on his show.
Let’s stop the name calling; this sort of slander is strickly lowbrow and unworthy of a fair minded commentator such as you.
Scott Armstrong
Neither was Imus. Too bad not enough room for Morning Joe and Imus. Oh Well
It doesn't take much to get a snowball to run downhill.
Read Christopher Hitchens' accounts on Mother Teresa too. Where did all of her donations go? Why was her hospice in Calcutta just as run down the day she died? Hitchens also points out that Teresa went to American clinics when sick herself.
http://www.slate.com/id/2090083/
"Limbaugh's personal life is his own business unless he starts getting all holier than thou. It is pretty much his factual distortions and mean-spirited remarks that bother me."
Pot, Meet Kettle! Who are you to talk!
Bernie O'hare is the Rush of the local Blogospotia!
read your own Blog once in a while, Mr. Hypocrite!
Scott ---- here are some Limbaugh quotes for all you well-reasoned R's to use..... my favorite is re the posthumous Medal of Honor...
"I mean, why didn't these morons leave New Orleans before the hurricane? I'll tell you why: because they wanted to rape and loot! That's just the way some people are! And if they're black--if the rapists and looters are black--it's not George Bush's fault! We've had these problems ever since the Emancipation Proclamation. Once the whites leave town, all you've got is overwhelming lawlessness. That's not racism, Mr. Snerdley; it's a proven, demonstrable fact. Have you even seen a ghetto in Greenwich, Connecticut? I rest my case." [12 September 2005]
"They oughtta change Black History Month to Black Progress Month and start measuring it." [27 February 2006]
"We're not sexists, we're chauvinists -- we're male chauvinist pigs, and we're happy to be because we think that's what men were destined to be. We think that's what women want." [15 April 2004]
"Hugo, Cesar--whatever. A Chavez is a Chavez. We've always had problems with them." [26 March 2004]
"since [Sen. Barack] Obama [D-IL] has -- on his mother's side -- forebears of his mother had slaves, could we not say that if Obama wins the Democratic nomination and then wins the presidency, he will own [Rev.] Al Sharpton?"
On June 14, 2004, Limbaugh shared with listeners his "pet name" for the National Organization for Women (NOW): "National Association of Gals" (his acronym: "NAG"). Limbaugh claimed that the "militant feminists" who make up the "NAGs" "aren't determining who wins elections. White men are."
"Well, it didn't take long for this. After only two episodes, producers at CBS -- the TV show Survivor, you know they -- they segregated all those tribes by race and by ethnicity -- but after only two episodes, the segregation has ended. They have merged the black, white, Asian, and Latino tribes into two mixed-race gangs. There can only be one reason for this, ladies and gentlemen -- that is the white tribe had to be winning. Were -- were it not for that, there would be none of this mixed-gang business going on after only two episodes."
"I mean, let’s face it, we didn’t have slavery in this country for over 100 years because it was a bad thing. Quite the opposite: slavery built the South. I’m not saying we should bring it back; I’m just saying it had its merits. For one thing, the streets were safer after dark."
"You know who deserves a posthumous Medal of Honor? James Earl Ray [the confessed assassin of Martin Luther King]. We miss you, James. Godspeed."
"Have you ever noticed how all composite pictures of wanted criminals resemble Jesse Jackson?"
Look, let me put it to you this way: the NFL all too often looks like a game between the Bloods a"nd the Crips without any weapons. There, I said it."
"The NAACP should have riot rehearsal. They should get a liquor store and practice robberies."
"They’re 12 percent of the population. Who the hell cares? "
"Take that bone out of your nose and call me back(to an African American female caller)."
"I think the media has been very desirous that a black quarterback do well. They’re interested in black coaches and black quarterbacks doing well. I think there’s a little hope invested in McNabb and he got a lot of credit for the performance of his team that he really didn’t deserve."
Just when I think you're hopeless, BO, you trash Rush and I've got to give you a second and third and fourth chance.
The previous Limbaugh quotes mean nothing when compared to lefties ACTUALLY IN POWER.
From Harry "the surge has failed" Reid (spoken two days after the surge was approved and months before it began) to Barack "we are bombing indiscriminately and killing innocent civilians (no proof of this even from lefties, he slandered those he now purports to lead), the list is long and far more egregious given their public trust vs. a popular entertainer.
yeah, you're right - Reid trumps outright racism every day.
Boring.
Scott Armstrong
Anon 5:02,
Thanks for all those quotes from the supposed conscience of the R party. That's worthy of a separate post.
Scott,
You and I agree A-town is in bad shape. We agree about the damage being done by machine politics. You are one of the few in A-town who is willing to say, "The Emperor has no clothes."
We don't agree about Limbaugh and I doubt that will happen. You asked me why I think his listeners are cultlike and I explained why. I provided links to three separate instances where he has made some ridiculous remarks. And this is no whacky distortion. I made a point of actually listening to Limbaugh before I wrote what I wrote.
In addition, Anon 5:02 has provided quotations from Limbaugh that, if true, clearly establish him as a racist and misogynist. It's not boring to me. It's a refutation of your claim. The fact that he attracts corporate sponsors means nothing to me. They are interested in what sells, not doing the right thing.
All in all, it is people like Limbaugh who drive people away from your party. I am deeply offended when I read faux liberals post comments that display homophobic, misogynistic and elitist tendencies. They do a disservice to liberalism. And Rush Limbaugh hurts your party more than any Dem could ever do.
It seems to me that Rush Limbaugh is being brave by the standard set by President Obama's Attorney General, Eric Holder.
Bernie,
Bernie, the fact that Rush Limbaugh attracts responsible corporate sponsors speaks for itself and you and all of Rush’s critics must recognize this fact. It is not true that business and corporate sponsors support racists and/or misogynists. If they do then please provide examples, and spare me and the blog’s other readers the attempt to label Rush as the exception. That wouldn’t be credible.
Scott Armstrong
The Art of Discourse
The exchange of ideas is only worthy if the effort is productive, otherwise what is the point? When reason is met with insult what is the point of continuing?
It is ironic that those who view themselves as intellectual and opened minded are the ones who now routinely employ slander as a means of silencing rhetorical opponents.
What are we to make of this?
Scott Armstrong
"You know who deserves a posthumous Medal of Honor? James Earl Ray [the confessed assassin of Martin Luther King]. We miss you, James. Godspeed."
To the anonymous poster:
Prove this quote. I just googled it and it is rarely if ever mentioned in source material.
(This means that it hardly ever shows up in the actual content of a website. Like an article that says: Limbaugh is a big racist! Look what he said.)
It is almost always instead found in discussion threads and presented as being from Limbaugh. It is never cited.
What was the month, day and year that he was supposed to have said this?
In fact, what art month, day and year citations for all the "quotes" for which you failed to provide that necessary information?
(Again, if you're reading this comment thread and want to make an informed decision, google these quotes. Find them in source material with a date citation. I would be interested to see that.)
Mr. Armstrong is correct on this one. If Limbaugh said half of this stuff he would be off the air faster than you could say Don Imus.
Anon 8:32 with a dry, cool, original wit like yours you should have been . . . oh, no, wait. You already are a self-important dork.
In the immortal words of Sgt. Elias. "Lighten up. You don't have to be an azzhole everyday of your life.
Scott, I do not share your view of the inherent goodness of corporate America. They support Rush because he sells. They support Imus, who is equally repugnant, because he sells. I have no illusion that corporate sponsors give a damn about anything other than their bottom line. If the FCC permitterd it, half of the networks would be nonstop porn. So I don't buy that argument.
As far as the anonymous personal insults go, I'm sorry that you have to put up with that. Those childish people just diminish themselves and their arguments.
Anon 8:36, I'm trying to find a web source for those Limbaugh quotes.
Anon 8:36 here:
Bernie I appreciate it. I may be wrong, but I find it weird that the worse the quote the more likely it was not to have a citation.
Thanks for doing that. If I'm wrong -- then I'm wrong.
Bernie,
Wrong! Imus was thrown off the air for a "racist" remark. Why? Because sponsors withdrew.Countless others have suffered the same fate, remember Bob Grant,Jimmy the Greek...
As for comments,anyone of us with any written or oral record could have our own words used against us by a careful editor.
As for the use of insult look not far for the culprit. We who know the language should measure carefully the use of words such as racist and misogynist.
Scott Armstrong
"...he presided over firing squads and started a labor camp system that was eventually used to imprison gays, religious people and AIDS victims."
Bernie, Che died on October 9, 1967. Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome was not reported until the 1981. How does one relate to the other? What's your point?
It's not hard to figure out. Che started the labor camp sustem, and it was eventually used to imprison people w/ AIDS. That's the way it went down and Che is the Stalinist who made it possible.
The left cannot defend their mess of president, so they attack a guy with a radio show. Yeah.
Attacking Limbaugh is easy. Apparently, defending the spendthrift crook in chief has become unpleasant for the moonies.
Lighten up sheep. It's only been a couple of months. Time to grow thicker skins (as we know a sense of humor is out of the question).
Che and AIDS? Uh, no.
Back to Wikipedia for you.
Can Armstrong place his name at the top of his posts, instead of at the end, so I can save time?
How do we reference Limbaugh and Che in the same topic??? and u think the NCC vote was confusing Bernie??? Guess some people just like to hear themselves type.
Limbaugh and Che were lumped together bc I claimed both attract cult-like devotion.
"I mean, why didn't these morons leave New Orleans before the hurricane? I'll tell you why: because they wanted to rape and loot! That's just the way some people are! And if they're black--if the rapists and looters are black--it's not George Bush's fault! We've had these problems ever since the Emancipation Proclamation. Once the whites leave town, all you've got is overwhelming lawlessness. That's not racism, Mr. Snerdley; it's a proven, demonstrable fact. Have you even seen a ghetto in Greenwich, Connecticut? I rest my case." [12 September 2005]
Phony quote. Rush never said that.
"You know who deserves a posthumous Medal of Honor? James Earl Ray [the confessed assassin of Martin Luther King]. We miss you, James. Godspeed."
Phony quote. Rush never said this either.
"Look, let me put it to you this way: the NFL all too often looks like a game between the Bloods a"nd the Crips without any weapons. There, I said it."
Was said after New England San Diego playoff game in 2008 (cant recall the context)
"The NAACP should have riot rehearsal. They should get a liquor store and practice robberies."
That was said in critical response to Spike Lee who said he wanted all black kids to skip out of school that day to go and watch his movie Malcolm X (which had just been released)
"Take that bone out of your nose and call me back(to an African American female caller)."
Out of context. When he was a small time unknown radio host, the management at KUDL KC wanted him to be insult host. He told current audiences how much he hated it. He was given this line by management to use. He related in in a story about how insult radio was NOT his cup of tea and how he knew he had no future doing it.
"I think the media has been very desirous that a black quarterback do well. They’re interested in black coaches and black quarterbacks doing well. I think there’s a little hope invested in McNabb and he got a lot of credit for the performance of his team that he really didn’t deserve."
And Rush was correct on that one.
Before you do a post on Rush quotes, Bernie, I think you should make sure which ones are accurate, in what context they were said, and be careful not to repeat the ones that are completely phony. There are quite a few "Limbaugh quotes" floating around out there on the net that turns out he never said. I've shown you a few. I do not know about the rest here as I dont have the time to research them all. Take them with a grain of salt.
"Before you do a post on Rush quotes, Bernie, I think you should make sure which ones are accurate."
I did do a post with Rush quotes and was careful to post only those comments I could verify. I have links to them. Incidentally, you do not supply a link for your claim that Rush did not make these remarks. My recollection is that they are "disputed" and are attributed to Limbaugh in some book (not Franken).
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