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| Peg Ferraro feels lease proposal is "rushed" |
Stoffa is proposing a 15-year lease for a 3-story, 66,375 sq ft building on 5.36 acres, with 256 parking places. Located on Emrick Boulevard, between Freemansburg Avenue and William Penn Highway, the facility will cost the County about a million dollars a year in rent. It is a triple net lease, meaning that the County will also pick up the tab for taxes, utilities and insurance. Every five years, the County will have an option to purchase.
Polaris Properties, which owns the tract, will build the facility by the end of this year if the lease is approved. Polaris has agreed to pay prevailing wages for the construction, which means this would be a union job.
Stoffa has called the proposal a "golden opportunity to do something terrific" for the 18,000 people who use the County's human services at two different buildings
The Governor Wolf Building, located at 45 N 2d St in Easton, is a 52,171 sq ft schoolhouse, built in 1893. Purchased by the County in 1986 for $912,000, it is home to 173 human services workers. It needs $3.3 million in capital repairs and improvements over the next 5-10 years. The day before Council met, the building had to be closed because the heat failed. Employees who work there complained about caving ceilings and lead paint exposure
The Martin J. Bechtel Building, located at 520 E Broad Street in Bethlehem, is a 28,000 sq ft facility, built in 1962. Purchased by the County in 1993 for $763,000, it houses 70 human services workers. It needs $1 million in capital improvements and repairs over the next 5-10 years.
Under Stoffa's proposal, these building will be sold, and the $2.8 million in expected proceeds will be used for improvements at the new Bethlehem Township facility.
County administrators, along with Council members Ken Kraft and Tom Dietrich, have been working on this proposal for a year. Twenty-six sites were considered, and four proposals were solicited. But the full Council was unfamiliar with the lease proposal until mid-December, and need more time to digest the details.
Council member Peg Ferraro complained that she felt as though she was being "rushed by a salesman." She questioned why the County did not give more consideration to building on the Gracedale campus in Upper Nazareth. Stoffa had earlier stated that building at Gracedale would take 3-5 years, and the County would also be forced to pay $4.3 million for improvements to the Wolf and Bechtel buildings. While that was going on, employees would have to be relocated.
Former Council members Ron Heckman and Ron Angle spoke against the lease proposal. Heckman questioned building a new human services building at a time when the federal and state governments are reducing grants for human services. Angle complained about the prevailing wage clause in the lease, noting that it is great for the unions but anti-taxpayer. "This could be done for a lot less money," he argued. He also questioned whether the County will get any money fro the sale of the Wolf and Bechtel buildings. "You've already brought out that you have a dump," he declared.
Scott Parsons, who defeated Angle in a recent Council race, smiled at his former opponent and said, "You did nothing but raise questions for me, and that's probably a good thing. I've hedged on this back and forth." Parsons moved to table the lease to give Council members more time. His motion passed 6-2, with Council member Ken Kraft and President John Cusick opposed.
Cusick was visibly annoyed with Council members, some of whom had failed to attend a lengthy discussion about the lease the previous day. He noted that when he had questions, he asked the administration and got answers.
"Make a decision!" exclaimed Cusick. "Ultimately, that is what you're here to do."
In his first year in office, a Stoffa proposal for a centralized human services building was shot down by Council.
Consultant Ken Mohr was unfazed. He explained that his proposal for Coca Cola Park was originally rejected, too.
56 comments:
Watched the show on computer. Must say I was surprised to see Heckman and Angle coming at important concerns from two different but important perspectives. I like the idea of a building but they both had me thinking.
Shame neither are on county council anymore.
It seemed that no one thought the idea of a relocation was bad, just how can it be accomplished. Not just in a wonderful dreamers way but a cost effecitve parctical way that doesn't cost services and punish the taxpayer.
I have to agree with Heckmans point aobut the future of funding. Nothing worse than having a beautiful building that a client enters and is told there is no money to provide them the service they need but hey look at my beautiful office. I think they would prefer an old building and get the service. Got the clear impression some of the council members were uninterested in the public input.
Angle laid it on about the lease. I was impressed by his presentation.
I have an interst in this project but I must say both Angle and Heckman both sounded more knowlegable than anyone on county council.
What a weird pair of political bedfellows.
Cusick was wrong to chide council..They did what they were supposed to do..they held a public hearing to get input from the public and they actually listened.
If Cusick had half a brain, he'd keep this motion tabled as Angle suggested, for a few months until the County gets a look at what State and Federal funds will be available and to review other options..To do otherwise is irresponsible...Kudos to Ferraro, Werner, and Parsons for their willingness to listen to Angle and Heckman and consider their points of view.Again, Cusick's outburst was childish...It's council's job to ask questions and to listen to input from all concerned, not only the administration and their department heads..This proposal needs to be put on ice for a few months as Angle said..
Cusick did come off as an ass. He tells council memebers to talk to Mohr, Stoffa and Marcus again. Does he thing they will tell people anyhting other than what they already have said.
Legimate and knowlegable concerns were raised. If you want real answers you need to seek out new and informed sources. To Cusick, Kraft and Gilbert, you do your homework. Homework is not being spoonfed information from people whop have already made up their minds and will only give you the information that proves their point. By the way, were where thr tea party acitivists on this "feel good" project. Gilbert, Dietrich and Cusick must have become liberal Democrats
Cusick came off as annoyned that the public even had a say. Then he treated fellow council memebesr like children. If I were a counciloman I would have told him were he could stick his gavel. It was a public hearing and debate. If that bores him, maybe he should resign.
Ego over commons senesewith some of these prima donnas.
Who wasn't there?
Sure seems to most out there that spending the money to improve the Bechtel and Wolf buildings will be a whole lot cheaper and predictable then getting into a long term lease and spending tens of millions and have nothing to show for it.
"County administrators, along with Council members Ken Kraft and Tom Dietrich, have been working on this proposal for a year."
OK, Dietrich has been working on this proposal for a year and still needed time to think about it? Really? What option didn't he explore? Is he really that indecisive? I can understand the others needing time, but Dietrich?
Deitrich, like the others, received little input from the public..Last night he did..In case no one noticed, the project wasn't shelved..As Angle said, "What's the hurry?"
It was a wise decision to try and find out what the human services picture will look like in the future. Take your time and do this properly.
Wrong location. That site is too far from those that use the services the most. The County should have solicited proposals from multiple developers. The site should be in a downtown. A prime example of how Governments promote green space development.
I sometimes provide some satire regarding main street and core communities, however, if those that need yhe services the most cannot walk to it from a populated area, it is in the wrong place.
Thank you, Mr. Angle.
-Clem
let's have a contest to name the roads to this white elephant.
User's Road
Stoffa's Folly Avenue
Gateway to Money
HIPPA Highway
Waste of Money Lane
Po'Boy Blvd
Welfare Way
Not sure what the big deal is about waiting for a couple months to see whether Corbett will once again crush local Human Services budgets. If he does so, the county might lose more employees, as it has the past few years..Then what will you do with all that space if you have already agreed to a new building and you have very few folks left to put in it..Is Wolf building falling apart..Yes..Is Bechtel? No..It's a good solid county building. I wonder how many Councilpersons have actually looked at Bechtel...Maybe they should..On the QT
7;55 your correct,wrong location. Should be placed in an extreme remote location as a litmus test for recipients. Debating this draws out new ways to really deal with a problem. My observation had been that too many carpet baggers move here to COLLECT benefits,them move in Grandma from East Bayonne N.J. A test would be, what percentage of services are going to people living here 5 yrs or less.
i for one miss ron angle , i'm thankful he and heckman were both there , they both brought light to the subject in a meaningful way and gave everyone plenty to think about .... i say let them where they are it provides easy access for people .
Is it the right location?
I wasn't aware the majority of folks using the services that would be in this building had access to cars.
For people in Bethlehem or Easton, some lot in Bethlehem Township may as well be up in Chapman.
Good news. If there is one area of government we can afford to cut, it's county government. It provides prisons and little else.
Hat's off to the Bulldog. And hat's off to Parsons for refusing to be rushed. This hasn't been properly vetted, as there are too many unknowns.
It was short-sighted of Stoffa to let the current buildings fall into such disrepair. Whether the new building was pursued or not, making them viable, marketable properties should have been a priority. I agree with Peg that the county could well be sitting with 1 possibly 2 white elephants on its hands and Stoffa is counting on the revenues from the sales to pay for the extra costs for the new building. Finally, while I have not seen the demographic breakdowns, it is hard to believe that human services does not serve more of an urban population than suburban and so I agree with those who are skeptical of the location. Definitely will be present at this on-going debate, glad they will discuss it further.
Good move by Scott Parsons. Now tell him to either contact Gerry Seyfried or get Frank Flisser to resurrect the plan to build at Gracedale. Peg Ferraro is on the right track on this too and Stoffa is wrong that it would take 3-5 years to build at Gracedale make him verify that with facts.
Stop spending. Don't build - anywhere. You won't take care of what you build and we'll just dispose of it and build another at breathtaking cost. Stop. Stop. Stop. Fix what you have and develop 10-year plans for proper upkeep. These properties were left to deteriorate. And those responsible will ride off with nice pensions as rewards for their incompetence. Despite their billing, building projects are rarely long-term fixes.
It was sickening to hear that Reibman hack Ron Hackman pontificate about his opposition to the building. What a farce. That clown could have cared less about his workers and their conditions when he ran the department. He let Gracedale go to hell, paid no attention to worsening conditions in Wolf and Bechtel, and allowed his idol Reibman suck up to the courts while his department was neglected. His former boss announced his laughable candidacy for CE I n the morning. Any coincidence to sending his lapdog Hackman to the council meeting to trash Stoffa's plan? Android Reibman wants to preserve as many county $$ for when (cows fly) he resumes office to renovate the prison with contractors who will pay to play. It was sad that council could not see through this ruse last night.
"OK, Dietrich has been working on this proposal for a year and still needed time to think about it?"
Dietrich is a moron but that is not what he said. He said that other Council members might need more time.
"For people in Bethlehem or Easton, some lot in Bethlehem Township may as well be up in Chapman."
Stop being ridiculous.
Actually Heckman tried to get a centrialized human services building when he was Human Servies Director. Most of the emplyees know that. The $40 million dollar courthouse was bult instead. I listened to his statement last night and he, more than Stoffa was concerned about the actual human sercvie jobs. He was clear that time shave changed. He noted that the state of human service funds to pay salaries is in question, the emplyees have been outsourced for years.
Stoffa has not spent any money on the employees buldings in his seven years. he has no money on the budget for any repairs to Wolf or Bechtel. He has outsourced entire units and laid off employees. To him the employees are pawns in a game to have a monument built to himself. Maybe the building or at least the road will be named after him. Even the union business agent pointed out what is the point of a big new building if there are no emplyees to put in it.
The only people angry at Heckman are the 100k a year Division heads who will keep their jobs no matter what and would like biggger offices. Thos eand a few union official that have been bought off at the expense of the regular employee.
Heckman had it right, human series is aobut people not buildings.
You are a Stoffa or Cusick plant, same difference. Damn him if you want but he gave a more knowledgable account of Human Servie reality than I have heard from the others.
Heckman mentioned that he supported a unified HS building in the 90s and supports one now. It's just this specific proposal that bothers him. He then goes on to speak of potential cuts in human services. Well, if that is his concern, would not that affect EVERY proposal?
I believe Heckman and Angle both allowed the perfect to be the enemy of the good.
I think Angle and Heckman allowed the resonable and sensable to be the enemy of the emotional.
Angle pointed out the lease was not the samrt or logical way to go. Heckman pointed out that another building, and another building and another building is of no service to the Taxpayer or to a dpartment that is being downsized everyday.
12;19 got the right idea. Stop spending, stop accommodating everybody and think about why READING is a disaster area. After what that county did FOR THE PEOPLE of that city in the last 30 yrs. They gave away the store!!!Burks County spends all the money or the same amount on the criminal justice system as they take in property tax. Most from READING running costs up.
Well County Council is finally waking up. Nice to see. Who in their right mind in government would vote to lease a building for 30 years? Last time I checked the county wasn't going anywhere. Stoffa hasn't done much to maintain the two buildings wanting them to fall into disrepair so he can make plans for a building in his name. The two buildings in question are formidable structures and yes, they do need some updates and repairs. But nothing to the tune that this building is going to cost -- not the county-- us taxpayers.
Look at the facts as presented. Rent in excess of $1 million per year PLUS all overhead -- it is a triple net (NNN)lease. The owner pays nothing but the construction and since it isn't owned by the county the county will even be responsible for the property taxes.
If he wants to build a building --- fine. But to lease a building that he could build for much less, with a debt service payment of much less than the annual rent, is rediculous. Therefore, since we the taxpayerts are paying every expense on the building we would still be saving $1 million a year in rent if we stayed in the two upgraded buildings and at least half of the rent if we built it and owned it.
Thank you county council...
Wow. Two buildings that I assume are paid for, need $4.3 million in work, so the proposed solution is to spend $15 million in rent over the term of the lease, plus taxes/utilities/insurance. I have to agree with Angle on this one. And if I were a developer(s), why would I spend 2.8 million (between the two buildings)for the privilege of spending $4.3 million in repairs (and then hit with higher taxes after all of the improvements). My bets would be against that, especially for Wolf in Easton.
I would also tend to agree with Huntress' points about who is actually being served in those buildings. Spend $11 million more than the repairs to rent a nice new facility away from the very people who need the services??
Perhaps I am missing something that Stoffa and Cusick didn't convey to the public.
Bernie, It's interesting that this project seems to have been sailing until detailed on this blog. I'm impressed. In county matters, it hasn't really been discussed until it's been discussed here.
If Hackman propose a consolidated DHS building years ago and was not listened to, then he was a weak, ineffective director who has no business criticizing this proposal. Let's do a study of the amount of money spent by Reibman and Stoffa administrations on the Bechtel and Wolf buildings and Stoffa will win hands down. Reibman could have cared less about human services when he was in office. The cuts to DHS programs in recent years were due to state cuts. Stop the madness! Reibman and his lapdog Hackman neglected human services during their reign of terror - period!!
For all those that want council to shelve this permanently or vote it down, then council better immediately authorize $4.3 million dollars for the start of repairs to the two buildings. After the repairs start, then prepare to authorize that amount one or two more times. Once they open up the buildings and start repairs, the costs of the additional probelms found while be huge.
This isn't solely a Stoffa problem. There has been no upkeep to either building in over fifteen years. Reibman sold the Wolf parking lot to a company that drilled holes all throughout the parking lot. Eventually the county had to buy back the lot and now there are depressions throughout it. Also, council has not authorized any extra couty funds over the years to upgrade or repair the buldings.
The costs for the lease will be way less than the costs to make both buildings usable over the next fifteen years.
Who says it will be 4.3 MILLION? CRAP!! Hire Peter Kohler ,let him deal with the problem , he knows and loves old buildings and will get it done right. $4.3m is like owning your car and now time to put brakes and changing transmission oil,ect. Cheaper than depreciation on a new car.Let see HOw many TAX PAYERS IN THE COUNTY TO PAY THE TAX?
Apparently the Stoffa hacks are out in force. Why else would they attack they attack Heckman and not Angle. That says a lot right there. Also since he is a private citizen doing what he is etitiled to do under the law, Bernie has not deleted the anonnymous personal attaclks.
Did Heckman mention Stoffa or Reibman? I am glad he brought out issues that shopuld have been borught up by Mr. Marcus. Of course Mt. Marcus had no real record in Human Sevfi8es before John Stoffa appointed him. Since then he has been theloyal yes man he is paid to be. Where was he for the past seven years? Oh that right he was occupied with his public Health Department work.
As to the state of the buildings if Reibman and Stoffa let the Wolf and Bechtel buildings go bad shame on both of them. County Executives make the final call.
Frankly, I have found out that the majority of Bechtel building people are quite happy where they are. Of course the top brass came in as they were oredered to do. A lease is binding and will committ the county to a million a year with a 2.5 percent increase on top of that every yrasr. That is a fact that willnot chang eregardless of Human Services funding. Did Heckman or Angle say anything untrue? No not at all. so attack the messenger but not the message, is that th eStoffa way?
Stoffa wants a legacy. he wants the Stoffa Human Servies Bulding sitting on Stoffa lane. After that he could giv e ashit what happens four years down the road. He let Wolf go to Hell and is now playing the I am your only friend card. He destroyed the bulding in order to save it.
You do realize any promises ohter than the leagal leases are meaningless, once he leaves office. Even the employees union boss said that he would like assurances that the cost of this building won't mwean more employees being dumped. The problem is there are no assurances that Stoffa can give. The next Administration can do whatever the Hell it wants to pay this lease, including laying off people, outsourcing and forcing the entire lease payment to be made out of Human Service money. Funny how people get in a fog when new buildings are brought up.
So again, to the Stoffa hack, don't attack Heckman becaue he told soem of the truth you ommited telling the dullards on county council.
Of course it may be union steward Jeff Siflies who is attacking Heckman. He has been a longtime Stoffa insider and golf buddy of some cabinet folks. Maybe the PSSU folks should look into his real motives.
Sorry Bernie but I can't agree with letting annonyomus personal attacks on Heckman go on as OK while you delete those on others. I am sure Heckman doesn't care because he understands politics but at the end of the day, they still came off as better informed and more knowledgable than any of the county council people and I hope they both run for county council again.
Your Obedient Servent
Ralphie P.
Ron Heckman has been in the public spotlight most of his adult life. He is running fro County Council. I allow some attacks for that reason. My comments policy is nondebatable.
I agree Reibman ignored human services the Gracedale problem started with his neglect and I think failure to listen to Heckman and I'll vote for Heckman for council
Go back to county commissioners choose any 3 Ferraro, Seyfried, Heckman, Grucela, Parsons, Brown and you'll have better government
Bernie, is there a set list of what capital improvements are needed at each building? LVIA is getting a bunch of gratis work from an out-of-state energy company to cut utility bills... why can't the county look into something like this?
I agree with the poor location choice; from the booming metropolis outpost of Lehigh Township, it's at best, a 45-50 minute drive to Emrick Blvd in one direction. If a new construction project is the best bang-for-the-buck solution, Nazareth is fairly central to the county.
1) The County has a GESA (Guaranteed Energy Savings Agreement) at Wolf and Bechtel, which has saved millions. But $4.3MM in capital improvements are still needed.
2) I agree it is a trek from Lehigh Tp. But Bethlehem and Easton are even longer treks.
Nazareth is the geographic center, but not the population center.
Hey Ralphie. Suck up to Hackman if you like but he sat by as his dept. became the stepchild of the Reibman administration. He was a weak, ineffected administrator who did nothing to improve the conditions for human services workers or their clients. Now we have two substandard buildings that are inaccessible and inefficient. He is the one who let Wolf go to hell. Just check the spending record on who took better care of that building. Run Hackmans campaign if you think he is the salt of the earth.
Onembo must be chomping at the bit! Wow if Reibman wins he can over see the prison renovations.Let's look at this hmmmmmauto repair shop? This council better make a quick decision before Reibman starts his campaign!
Anon 10:43. Too bad, you must have been one of the trough feeders that Heckman pissed off as Director. Because he knew all your angles you didn't get away with much. Too bad.
I guess he wanted the HS money spent on the clients and not your all day pizza parties.
He was a refreshing knowledgable change berween the inexperienced choices of Jack Bradt and Ross Marcus. The Division Haeds hated the fact they couldn't bullshit him. Same for some of the crazy union goons.
How much has been done to fix the roof over Mr. Mahlers head for the past seven years.
Your cowardly bullshit is weak.
CM, yeah you know me if you really do work at Wolf.
Hey Cusick. You are a real bright bulb aren't you?
You chide county council memebers for not having all their concerns answered. You bad mouth Angle and Heckman behind their backs and say nothing to their faces. You tell concerned council memebers to call Stoffa, Mohr and Marcus and they will answer their questions. Yeah, I bet they will. How fricken stupid are you?
I am sure Stoffa, Mohr and Marcus will be thrilled to give you all the "fresh and new" insight into their project you could want.
Angle and Heckman brought up issues that the Stoffa crew failed to mention over the past year of secret meetings. Gosh, I wonder why?
Do you really understand how dumb you sounded?
Not nearly as dumb or as mean-spirited as you. And he did not hde his identity.
Northampton County is simply a circus. These guys could not get out of their own way if they had to. You would think that basic political homework would have been done by the Stoffa Administration before this would even come up for a vote. You would think that he would have his votes lined up before he would be publicly embarrassed. You would think that his allies on Council would have told him the votes are not there. The whole County looks like a clown car at the circus. What is more funny is Ohare's picture of the developer licking his chops thinking he is getting a sweet contract when, in all reality, he most likely is not. If anything this Council and Executive are entertaining and fill the holes on no news days.
Stoffa is the Barak Obamam of Northampton County. He claims he isn't a politicians and shows disdain for the entire process. He also refuses to build relationships with council members, rarely even calling or engaging them outside of their ad hoc committees, which he serves on. Why would you take this proposal to council without having sat down with them individually first? All this confusing on the project could have been avoided.
When six members of Council state they want more time to vote on an issue because they need more information, I do not consider that an embarrassment for Stoffa. Nor do I blame Council for wanting to take that time. If they feel they are being pressured, they have every right to apply the brakes. This is, in my opinion, open and transparent government. You slam Stoffa for not making sure it is a done deal in advance of the vote. He does not view that as part of his job. I would be on the phone every 5 seconds, but he likes to see government in the open. He is more transparent than I.
Interesting that he would be tagged for not being more secretive.
That is why his secret select committeee met without the pulbic for eleven months. that is why Cusick and some appeared more annoyed than interested when people got up to speak during pulbic comment. It was the "first" pulbic hearing on the ordinace and it is the "peoples" money being spent.
I agree with the clown car. Also a mean spirited, the people be damned approach to governemnt. Be glad when it is over.
This was an administrative committee that included two members of Council. Numerous committees address different facets of county government. The notion that they must publicly advertise these meetings would both be prohibitively expensive and would eventually bring government to its knees.
While Council has every right to take its time and not vote on something until it is ready, Cusick as President was well within his rights to admonish member of Council who did no homework and did not appear at the publicly advertised meetings in which the lease was discussed. That includes Lamont McClure, whose sole agenda is to prevent Stoffa from accomplishing anything.
Seriously though, is it true that at this council meeting John Stoffa admitted to improperly using taxpayer's resources in the COAF lawsuits.
No, he did not. He offered to give the County $700 to shut McClure up, in something that he referred to as blackmail. He did nothing inappropriate, and in fact has demonstrated more integrity in office than anyone before him. He has never misused county resources and would not do that if his life depended on it. He ha never even charged the County for his mileage to the various events he must attend.
He cannot give $700 to the County. County Council has to accept it by resolution. If they do, then shame on them.
This is a fabricated issue that has been blown out in court on several levels and has been blown out by the DA. Not liking the answers they hear, the Gracedale Goons keep bringing it up, over and over, until someone tells them what they want to hear. It doesn't matter that they are completely full of shit. They just want to make Stoffa look bad, but it is they who look bad and petty.
The flaw in Cusicks illogic is obvious. Stoffa, Mohr and Marcus are pushing the project. What possible new information would they provide? Stoffa is telling people it wpould take years for anny other building. Really? Has anyne bothered to do their own research with some local officials. Some in Bethlehem would welcome any expansion or work at Bechtel and it could start tomorrow with emplyees in there in six months for under two million dollars. Of course that is the Martin J. Bechtel Building and not the John Stoffa Building.
Nazareth Area folks have no problems with people in Human servicess being in a Human Service campus. Anyone bother to ask anyone other than a Stoffa Administration person??
Does anyone in th teir right mind think that asking Stoffa or Mohr the same questions will yeild anyhting but answerrs tailored to promoting this project?
HELLO, MCFLY!!!!!!
Cusick came off as an ass and even if he is re-elected, which I doubt, he will never be council president again.
Peg should have told him to shove it an demanded an immediate vote. It would ahve been four to four and the lease would have failed. Then Stoffa could thank brainboy for his attitude.
Council, don't rely on a County Executve who wants something to give you straight answers. Go out and do your research on your own.
Do you folks realize that there are people on County Council that have never been to the Bechtel building. Yet they are ready to vote on its "consdition" based on an administration consultant or a boss that wants a bigger office suite. One of the laziest groups of councilmen to come along in quite a while.
Just pass the thing on to the taxpayyers, pretned you are helping people. It is the easy road and you will get your names on a cornerstone. Woopie!!
Ralphie P.
Give Stoffa what he wants or you hate all poor people.
A ncie building with no employees in it and no money for services. But what a nice building. Are Human Servcies workers really this stupid?
Apparently, they are.
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