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| Like most Israelis, Olmert shuns the suit and tie |
I am equally disturbed by Israel's reaction. Israel's defense minister, Yoav Gallant, announced a complete siege of the Gaza strip, denying food, water and electricity to the people trapped there. That's exactly the kind of tactic that Stalin might approve, as he did during the holodomor in Ukraine. Gallant claimed Israel is fighting "human animals," using the same kind of language that Nazis used to justify their genocide of Jews. There are 2 million people inside the Gaza strip, and only a tiny fraction of that amount had anything to do with the atrocities in Israel.
Whether you're Palestinian or Israeli, Muslim or Jew, it is simply wrong to take an innocent life. Yet that's precisely what's happening, as Israel bombs building after building as a prelude to a ground invasion
In addition to being morally wrong, former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert told DW News that this kind of approach will alienate Israel in the eyes of the international community. "I'm afraid that if these attacks, which have taken place over the past few days, will continue and more and more buildings in Gaza will be destroyed, the smoke and fire will spread all over the screen and this will be broadcast day in and day out all over the world. Soon enough, the emotion and sympathy which is now spread all over the world in support of the state of Israel, will change."
Olmert suggests that allowing humanitarian aid or creating a pathway for innocents to leave "might be a reasonable vehicle in order to achieve a separation between the civilian population, which is not involved, and the terrorist organizations." He acknowledged there is no easy answer.
This much is clear to me. There is no way that Israel will have any semblance of peace under bigoted and authoritarian leaders like Bibi Netanyahu. It's clear to Olmert as well. "I'm scared of this group of thugs, violent messianic thugs, run by a reckless, irresponsible person - Netanyahu."
Olmert said Israel's first priority should be ridding itself of Hamas. After that, it should dump Netanyahu.
49 comments:
Bernie, in all due respect this isn't a new story. In smaller incidents when Jews have been killed in Israel, Gaza celebrates with sweets. The fact that protests are occurring against Israel even before their butchered babies can be buried was expected.
Israel cannot enter and attack Hamas without emptying the city of population. The population won't leave without massive bombings.
Agree with much of what you said Bernie. Also, continued Jewish settlements should end in the West Bank and the return of continuous Palestinian areas there should return. But that is an issue for when sanity returns to Israel.
MM, You're up unusually late or are getting up unusually early, lol. I am disgusted that anyone would celebrate the murder of innocents. I am especially disgusted when it comes from people in this country, as happened in Manhattan and in several other places. I hope that anyone you know in Israel is safe. I reached out to a friend who visits there frequently and he and his family are ok.
Massive bombing may very well encourage the population to leave, I agree. I know it would encourage me. What bothers me is that both exit points have been blocked. People are penned in without food, water or electric. This is a holodomor. I realize that most of the civilian population in Gaza probably hates Israel and supports Hamas, but doubt very much that more than a very tiny fraction participated in the incursion and the ugliness that followed. Certainly none of the children.
It is simply morally wrong to kill innocent people. Moreover, as the former PM stated, it would basically cause Israel to lose the sympathy of the international community. There must be a way that the people inside Gaza who want to leave and who had nothing to do with what happened, can be relocated. I have no idea why they would want top live there to begin with. It is one of the poorest areas of the world, and there are no jobs unless they can find one in Israel.
I believe Hamas needs to be eliminated. If Iran is involved (and the US is doubtful at this point), it must pay a price. But the rhetoric used by Israel's defense minister and some others in the Israeli government needs to stop. I listened to a major who said that the IDF takes all kinds of precautions to avoid hurting innocent people. That has always been my understanding of Israel. I hope it remains that way.
“Earlier this week, I condemned Hamas' incursion into Israel and the multiple atrocities that ensued.”
Did you really? Yes you pointed out the obvious horror of the Hamas atrocities in your first post, but then quickly turned your focus (in that very same post) to condemning Israel for their efforts to go after Hamas in Gaza.
Today, you focus your platform on one of Israeli Pime Minister Netanyahu’s political opponents, disgraced former PM Ehud Olmert.
I also find it interesting that while you’ve now taken Israel to task for going after Hamas in multiple posts and in your subsequent replies to comments in those posts, I’ve yet to see the headline about what Hamas did, or what those living in Gaza should do.
Perhaps you could write an article urging those “innocents” in Gaza to round up and turn over members and supporters of Hamas to the Israelis. Maybe you could write an article urging Hamas to end their bloodshed, turn themselves in for their crimes, and to release the hostages they continue to hold.
I won’t hold my breath waiting for those headlines, and I doubt we’ll be seeing you seriously focus on that. Instead we’ll see continued attempts to undermine Israeli efforts against Hamas and turn public opinion against Israel.
“It is simply morally wrong to kill innocent people. Moreover, as the former PM stated, it would basically cause Israel to lose the sympathy of the international community.”
I’m glad you weren’t blogging during WWII, when we bombed Germany and Japan into submission. That’s what it took to defeat that evil, and to convince the populations living there that there would be no future for them if they continued to support those who committed the vilest atrocities of that century.
As to the “international community”, they’ve been more than happy to let Israel suffer continued rocket and terrorist attacks that have escalated to what we saw a few days ago. Now, the “international community” is supposedly outraged, but continues to argue against taking any action that would upset their precious “stability”.
Israel needs to do what is necessary to win this, and we should be supporting their efforts to cleanse the planet of the evil in Gaza. Yes, it won’t be easy, and it won’t be without the loss of innocent life. But it should be clear that the continued existence and international acceptance of the evil in Israel’s midst can no longer be tolerated.
Bernie blames the Jews for the Jews' problems. It's a Catholic story as old as Catholicism. Bigotry sucks. Bernie sucks. It's time for old bigots to fade away and be gone from us. Do the right thing, bigots. You too, Bernie.
You make no sense BO whatsoever. Israel cannot take the highroad while the sub-human hamas act like the animals they are. That will only encourage the hamas. Will innocents die? Yes, Happens in every war.
No shit Bernie, the majority of people condemn the violence against innocent people, but you’re not putting this conflict into context. Can you even fathom the abhorrent conditions that the Palestinians have been living under when their ONLY option is this sort of violence? Can you not understand that Palestinians have seen their own children and family members be senselessly murdered by Israeli military forces for DECADES without recourse? They want you to believe that this is an isolated, unprovoked event because this is how Israel stays in power, but it’s all propaganda created to further their goal of ethnic cleansing. Palestinians have been living in an open-air prison, a literal apartheid state for decades, stripped from any sense autonomy, and you dare question their actions against their colonizer?
I have no interest in being sympathetic to the current Israeli government.
Freedom, by any means necessary. I stand with Palestine.
We fund both sides (Israeli foreign aid and Iranian cash drops under Obama and Biden). We have achieved our objective, which is more war. That's our brand, sadly. The new focus is Israel and Iran. Blinken served notice to Ukraine that they're soon to be cut off and should finally start negotiating for peace. The Ukraine War is getting boring and expensive. We're moving on to the next war. Two carrier groups (Eisenhower, ironically, and Ford) are about to be parked nearby. The US has a brand. That brand is constant war.
So many innocents yet they tolerated Hamas in their midst. Yes, many children but why did their parents tolerate Hamas in the area? Why, because they gave tacit support to their presence. Evil men exist by the tolerance of the many 'good" people who do nothing.
Bernie, you yourself just reported that these sick Hamas bastards disemboweled babies, raped young girls and marched their butchered bodies through the streets, and beheaded innocents'
Nothing the Israel people would do to the Hamas should offend anyone. The Hamas kill for the enjoyment their sick perverted minds get out of committing these horrendous acts. Don't even compare the jews to Adolph Hitler.
When you mentioned Netanyahu, you forgot to mention that Biden, his politics, and even Trump have much to do with this as well.
Oh please, the IDF killed a female Palestinian-American journalist last May and has not taken responsibility. That got lots of notice, but there are many others that are not as high profile. Let's not be naive about Israel either.
"Nothing the Israel people would do to the Hamas should offend anyone. The Hamas kill for the enjoyment their sick perverted minds get out of committing these horrendous acts. Don't even compare the jews to Adolph Hitler."
Killing innocent people is murder and morally wrong. It makes no difference whether it is Hamas killing an innocent Israeli of an Israeli killing an innocent Palestinian. This is not complicated. The political question is very difficult, but the question whether to kill innocents is easy. It is wrong. It is murder.
And yes, placing Gaza under siege and denying food an water is no better than what Stalin did. Referring to Palestinians in subhuman terms is no better than Hitler.
"Oh please, the IDF killed a female Palestinian-American journalist last May and has not taken responsibility."
IDF killed her, but it was unintentional. I understand that this can happen but do not believe that bombing innocent civilians is unintentional. Nor is starving them. That is murder.
"So many innocents yet they tolerated Hamas in their midst. Yes, many children but why did their parents tolerate Hamas in the area? Why, because they gave tacit support to their presence. Evil men exist by the tolerance of the many 'good" people who do nothing."
Tolerating the hateful people in your midst or eve3n tacit support of them is no basis for killing these people or their children. It is still murder.
". Can you even fathom the abhorrent conditions that the Palestinians have been living under when their ONLY option is this sort of violence? "
Nothing justifies the murder of innocents. Give it a rest.
"I’m glad you weren’t blogging during WWII, when we bombed Germany and Japan into submission. That’s what it took to defeat that evil, and to convince the populations living there that there would be no future for them if they continued to support those who committed the vilest atrocities of that century."
My father was a POW inside one of the cities that we firebombed. He did not appreciate it. Nor did the people of Dresden or Tokyo. Instead of being subjugated, that just hardened their resolve. It was a military failure. What succeeded was the use of nukes, and that was done solely to save the lives of an invasion force of 500,000.
There is little doubt in anyone's minds that firebombing residential areas as we did is a war crime. So is the execution of captured soldiers. It does not suddenly become ok bc we do it.
Murder is murder.
Oh be quiet Bernie, if I didn’t hear you condemning Israeli forces for murdering innocent Palestinians in the past, you’re in no position to advocate for Israel, let alone have a voice in this discussion. You’re just being a reactionary to the propaganda fed to you by US media. You don’t always have to have an opinion about conflicts you know little about, specifically if your takes are whitewashed with propaganda.
Killing innocent men, women and children is reprehensible no matter who is doing it. I live in a three story apartment building. My downstairs neoighbor is a terrorist who uses his apartment for building bombs and storing ammunition. How am I supposed to get rid of him to protect myself? When my child goes to school in the morning, the building next door stores munitions and rockets. How can I destroy this facility without harming innocent children. Offering safe passage through checkpoints sounds reasonable. How do I sspot Hamas militants from using the very same crossings? Tell alll innocent palistinians to rise up and help to destroy Hamas. They are in the majority. Tell all innocents to flee to a designated arrea in Gaza and them destroy everything else exceept that area. These innocent people must like of just tolerate Hamas or they would have revolted again them before. You can't be innocent and tolerate militant behavior at the same time.
So what do you suggest
Each country paints its own version of history, and you’re almost always the force of virtue. Each side believes they have a valid argument. I’m sure Native Americans have a different recollection of how they came to be pushed onto reservations after occupying an entire county. And even in an earlier post this week Bernie glazed over the atomic bombs in Japan with a quick one line “they were probably war crimes” before casually moving on. But we’re able to look past that, justify it, and move on without a second thought. The US invaded another country promising WMDs were being produced there. Were any found? This is why history books in every country are written differently. Each one is done with the intention to reinforce its own ideals. There is no right and wrong, only what you choose to believe based upon your own personal values. Each side can point to how they’ve been wronged by the other. This is why there will always be conflict.
So if all of Hamas is turned in and shot out of hand then what?
Israel does what to alleviate the suffering in Gaza?
All Israel will accomplish is to buy time by flattening Gaza.
Let me avoid a deep dive into this conflict by offering a simplified but relevant old saying……
“You mess with the bull, you get the horns”
Another pathetic attempt at moral equivalency by "progressive" Bernie. Wasn't a terrorist organization voted into power by these "innocent" masses? Aren't they teaching hatred of Jews and the destruction of Israel in their classrooms? Didn't Israel provide ample opportunity for families to leave the Gaza Strip for a safe zone in Egypt? Hamas is a barbaric organization, and only ANIMALS would conduct the atrocities they did. They deserve every ounce of payback Israel gives them. Like ISIS, Hamas must be wiped off the face of the earth.
Then what? We know what. Iran arms and trains another generation of Hamas terrorists.
Do you ignore the videos produced by Hamas showing the training of young Palestinian children regarding the killing of Jews?
You stand with terrorists who cut off babies heads. Your a disgrace to the human race.
I’m done with this blog. Never in a million years did I think of would be reading garbage like this on here.
"Another pathetic attempt at moral equivalency by "progressive" Bernie. Wasn't a terrorist organization voted into power by these "innocent" masses?"
I actually have made no moral equivalency argument. My argument is one of moral absolutism. Killing innocent people is murder. It makes no difference whether Hamas or Israel is the aggressor. This is neither a progressive nor conservative stance unless you are saying that conservatives sanction murder. From what I understand, there have been no elections in some time, and there are actually two administrations. But I would not condemn people for voting for Hamas so long as they played no role in the atrocities. Many people who supported Hitler did not support or even know about his final solution. I would never advocate killing these people.
Little doubt? In your twisted mind. Germany started the war and murdered millions. They and their families had to suffer the consequences. They were all Nazi sympathizers. Same with Tokyo.
They are actually the elected government there. The palistinians voted for Hamas in 2007 I believe.
"Do you ignore the videos produced by Hamas showing the training of young Palestinian children regarding the killing of Jews?"
So that's a justification for murdering children? You're a real tough guy.
Hamas, Hezbollah, ISIS, they all have the same goal. They do not want Jews to exist anywhere. Not just Israel but anywhere in the world. They want death to Israel and death to the United States. There are 2 billion Muslims in the world, 1 or 2 percent are radicals that want a worldwide caliphate. Do the math there are millions of these assholes running around. These idiots who claim to stand with palistine, I got news for you, they’ll cut your head off for the cause too. Especially an American.
Alan Dershowitz has a 14 minute interview with Forbes posted on YouTube.
It’s well worth watching for those seeking clarification on this conflict.
"Hamas, Hezbollah, ISIS, they all have the same goal. They do not want Jews to exist anywhere. Not just Israel but anywhere in the world. They want death to Israel and death to the United States. There are 2 billion Muslims in the world, 1 or 2 percent are radicals that want a worldwide caliphate. Do the math there are millions of these assholes running around. These idiots who claim to stand with palistine, I got news for you, they’ll cut your head off for the cause too. Especially an American."
I agree that they are evil. That is no justification for killing innocent people.
"I’m done with this blog. Never in a million years did I think of would be reading garbage like this on here."
Yeah, it must be bothersome to hear that murder is wrong.
You took on a topic that you simply know nothing about. Stick to local politics and "quit yer bitchin" when you're called out for a lack of knowledge.
God gave this land (and much more) to Israel. There is no "palestinian" land.
And you're the biggest asshole commenting on this post.
Back in the day, I was commander of a Titan II ICBM crew. The nuclear weapon payload of the Titan II was more than 650 times that of the nuclear bomb dropped on Hiroshima. The position of the United States' deployment of nuclear weapons was (and is) that of deterrence - Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD). And, that the US would never launch a nuclear weapon except in retaliation for a first strike by the (then) Soviet Union.
Crew members had no idea where their missile was targeted, but I can assure you that a nuclear weapon as massive as that of the Titan II would not be used to take out a Soviet missile site or airfield or other tactical target. It would be sent to a much larger target. Meaning it would kill many civilians.
If my crew had received a valid order to launch our missile, I would have done so without any reservations whatsoever.
If that would have made me a murderer, so be it. As William Tecumseh Sherman so plainly out it, "War is all Hell."
If Netanyahu does a few, slick green screen interviews, will you give him a break and $175B? Asking for the military industrial complex.
Doc Roc, William Tecumseh Sherman did everything he could to avoid civilian casualties. In fact, in his famous march to Georgia, he had strict orders to shoot any of his own soldiers caught looting or abusing the citizen population.
Sherman, one of my favorite generals, would have been a great blogger bc he tended to bombastic. He also said he'd like to kill every reporter, but would begetting reports from Hell.
Killing innocent civilians is murder. That's just plain simple morality. It does not matter whether it is Hamas in a kibbutz or Israel in Gaza.
I know you. If you were ordered to unleash a weapon of mass destruction on a largely innocent population and actually knew it was headed there, you would refuse. The whole point of having these weapons is that they should never be used.
How does that propaganda taste? How does making assumptions about an entire group of people based on your racist understanding of Muslims really taste like? Imperialist Nations like the United States and Israel want you to believe that an uprising to colonial oppression is fanatical and “extreme” while the carpet bombing of an entire block in Gaza is necessary for “peace”. You have to be fucking kidding me with your line of thought when there’s American white supremacy organizations that want nothing more than to wipe out any group of people that doesn’t align with their white-Christian fascist ideologies. Marginalized people are being hunted, right here in America, and you dare spew that hogwash propaganda without looking at your own country? Focus on cleaning up your own house before having these stupid opinions about foreign affairs you know little about.
As people who are not living under military and illegal occupation for over 75 years, I don’t think it’s anyone job on here to comment how Palestinians are resisting.
Free Palestine!
If you want to meet some like-minded individuals, there's a support Palestine protest scheduled between 4:00 and 5:00 this afternoon in vibrant downtown Allentown. Apparently the City is fine with shutting down Hamilton Street between 5th and 7th at the start of rush hour on a Friday afternoon so that our most anti-sematic neighbors can put their ignorance and hate on full display. No question there will be "many fine people" in attendance. I'd set up a booth to sell tiki torches, but it's harder to get a business permit than a protest permit from the City.
Don't know Doc Roc, and always admired Sherman. But here's Golda Meir for an Israeli perspective on retaliation. 70 years (or is it 3,000) on war footing can give one a different perspective:
"We can forgive the Arabs for killing our children. But we can never forgive them for forcing us to kill their children."
If this is true it's just unbelievable
Did he do it in his underwear?
BernieOHare: I decline to publish a comment that contained outright disinformation with no supporting link.
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