Pennsylvania's Supreme Court has denied an application for extraordinary relief filed by several groups opposed to Governor Tom Wolf's March 19 executive order that all non-life-sustaining businesses must close their doors. His Order was issued Thursday.
It's a 4-3 decision. Justices David Wecht, Christine Donohue and Kevin Dougherty filed a concurring and dissenting statement.
The PER CURIAM Order is as follows:
"AND NOW, this 22nd day of March, 2020, upon review of Petitioners' Emergency Ex Parte Application for Extraordinary Relief Pursuant to the Court's King's Bench Jurisdiction, which challenges the statutory authority for, and the constitutionality of, the Governor's Order of March 19, 2020 ("Order of the Governor of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania Regarding the Closure of All Businesses That Are Not Life Sustaining"), and the Governor's response to that Application, we order as follows:
"With respect to those Petitioners alleging that the Governor's March 19 Order infringes on this Court's exclusive authority to regulate the practice of law, or otherwise interferes with this Court 's orders declaring a statewide judicial emergency, see, e.g., In Re: General Statewide Judicial Emergency, 531 & 532 Judicial Administration Docket (Pa. Mar. 18, 2020) (order temporarily closing courts to the public), the Application is DISMISSED AS MOOT. Although the Governor's March 19 Order provides that businesses performing "Legal Services" must cease physical operations, he subsequently added the following proviso: 'Except as required to allow attorneys to participate in court functions deemed essential by a president judge per the Pennsylvania Supreme Court 's order of March 18, 2020, or similar federal court directive, and lawyers may access their offices to effectuate such functions and directives.' See https://www.scribd.com/document/452553026/UPDATED-5-45pm-March-21-2020-Industry-Operation-Guidance, underhyperlink 'See a list of life-sustaining businesses' at https://www.pa.gov/guides/responding-to-covid-19/#ForBusinesses. Accordingly, in regard to these Petitioners, we find no controversy remains.
"In all other respects, the Application is DENIED.
"The Application For Leave Of The City Of Philadelphia To File Amicus Brief is GRANTED."
"Justice Wecht files a Concurring and Dissenting Statement joined by Justices Donohue and Dougherty."
With the exception of Governor Wolf's executive order relating to the practice of law, the Court articulates no reason for its denial.
Justice Wecht is "troubled by the uncertainty that has followed the Governor’s orders responding to the COVID-19 pandemic, particularly as it concerns the critical work of attorneys ... ." He nevertheless agrees with the Order with the exception the closure of licensed firearms dealers, which he believes is unconstitutional.
"Quite simply, if firearm dealers are not able to conduct any business in-person at their licensed premises, then no transfers of firearms can be completed. This amounts to an absolute and indefinite prohibition upon the acquisition of firearms by the citizens of this Commonwealth—a result in clear tension with the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution and Article I, Section 21 of the Pennsylvania Constitution."
Attorney Joshua Prince, representing gun interests, called the decision a "major blow to constitutional rights of Pennsylvanians across the Commonwealth. Enforcement of Governor Wolf's Order begins today at 8 am.
Justice Wecht has quarantined himself and his family after one his children returned from studying abroad and tested presumptively positive for Covid-19.
(Originally published 3/22/20 at 7:26 pm)
98 comments:
How many millions of guns already out there? Lend a brother a hand(gun). If i had family without one, they'd have it now!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Since when does the governor and his lap dog patsies on the supreme court have the authority to suspend the Bill of Rights? Doesn't Federal law override what a dysfunctional governor and state supreme court want to do?
The referenced document does not name these justices. I want names and when these anti-American justices are up for re-election.
The Second Amendment makes the First Amendment possible. Apparently, Wolf and a majority of our supremes don't believe in either.
Wonder what the American Civil Liberties (ACLU) will have to say about all this? They pop-up from time to time to make a case for freedom.
I’ll be looking for something out of them, but maybe not . . .
In the meantime, it appears Small Business can try the Waiver route.
Gun dealers who are licensed to sell firearms (and conduct background checks) are what are known as Federal Firearms License holders (FFLs). Get that, Federal Firearms License holders. Not State Firearms License holders. Background checks are done under the auspices of the Federal government. Not state governments.
PA residents may be (rightly) fearful that law enforcement resources typically deployed to stop serious crime like rape, murder, robbery and burglary are now going to be diverted to shutting down family-owned restaurants and other businesses that remain open. Not just one citizen will then resort to extra-legal means to obtain firearms to protect themselves.
Nice job, Wolf and supremes.
1:38-
A growing number of Americans understand , but not you unfortunately, politics can wait, and MUST wait. Take a breath, calm down, and help those who are suffering at this time.
Help, or get out of the way.
Wolf will destroy the pa economy-business must start up or the country will have more damage than the virus will cause yes the virus is dangerous but as usual the political leaders is screwing it they will run us into a depression or worse a total economic collapse think for a second or two what does these so called leaders run right -- not much they will ruin the country
anon 3:56, Since the Child in Chief decided to pretend nothing was wrong we are now behind the curve, It is amazing how selfish you Trunpers are. The economy will recover but the dead will not recover. O guess that is meaningless. This is fun to attack Wolf and all the governors who are going by the science and not your web site pseudo-science.
They've just launched a huge new black market. Another unforced error by a tragically incompetent state government. They are sewing seeds of violence and their enforcement goons will pay the price as our betters sit comfortably in big homes with lots of security. This is a purposeful purge.
January 14 - China government officials tell World Heath Organization there is NO transmission from persons-to-persons. No known cases of the China Virus in America. America health officials offer to send a team of medical infectious disease experts to China. China declines our help.
January 27 - America establishes a special committee in our country to monitor the situation and begin a response.
January 29 - President Trump stops all flights to and from China. China virus team here, expands a network to begin preparation here.
Moral of the story?
Change your television channel.
The cure is worse than the virus-this shutdown of the economy will cause much more human suffering than the virus--why did we not stop the economy for the flu or the swine flu---because the dems were in office now because of trump great success and the dems losing every way they tried to get trump now the dem governors are shutting down their states they must be stopped again wolf is as left wing as it gets
Trump is the one who said this is nothing but a hoax. Trump is the one who every chance he gets he embarrasses the Chinese by calling this the Chinese Virus. The Chinese were a little slow in doing what they should have, however they are now reporting no new cases of the virus and are well on the road to recovery. So what does the asshole in the white house do? He insults them and now the Chinese are donating their respirators and other life saving equipment to other countries instead of helping the U.S. Way to go Donald Trump. This man is the biggest horses ass to ever hold public office. What a shame you Trumpers fall for the garbage spewing from his mouth day in and day out. I feel sorry for you.
The nation is now facing a shortness of Blood Donors. Why? The Blood Banks should offer free Virus testing for everyone donates Blood. You can't give Blood without being tested. You get the results of your test almost immediately and we solve two problems at one time. What do you think Bernie? Is it worth a try?
Hardware stores which sell guns are still open, so there are options for folks.
Testing is not the key. S Korea has tested only one half of one percent of their population. Testing is like the kabuki dance at airports when 88-year olds are forced to remove their shoes. It's a dog and pony show.
7:53 - You are whipping yourself, AND OTHERS, into a frenzy. I don’t think you are only being helpful to you as a coping method. Calm, rational decision-making is what will bring us through. In about an hour, we’ll find out if our Congress has learned that lesson. Good luck to you.
"Since when does the governor and his lap dog patsies on the supreme court have the authority to suspend the Bill of Rights? Doesn't Federal law override what a dysfunctional governor and state supreme court want to do?
The referenced document does not name these justices. I want names and when these anti-American justices are up for re-election.
The Second Amendment makes the First Amendment possible. Apparently, Wolf and a majority of our supremes don't believe in either."
The Governor and Pa Supreme Court do not trump the US Constitution. I agree the decision is wrong and abrogates the due process clause.
Also, the decision is a 4-3 decision. You know Wecht, Dougherty and Donohue dissented, so it would be the other four who support shutting down PA's business. This would be Chief Justice Tom Saylor and Justices Max Baer, Debra Todd and Sally Mundy
@ 7:53
I think he called the urgency and warnings a "Democrat hoax," or a "media hoax." Too busy to look for the exact quote, but let's be fair. He never called the virus itself a hoax. His dim light bulb never lit up until it was too late. Kudos to him for stopping flights from China, though. Great job!
Let's review what he did say, how long it took him to take it seriously, and what a genius he is.
Twitter and recorded photo ops:
January 22: “We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China. It’s going to be just fine.”
February 2: “We pretty much shut it down coming in from China.”
February 24: “The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA… Stock Market starting to look very good to me!”
February 25: “CDC and my Administration are doing a GREAT job of handling Coronavirus.”
February 25: “I think that's a problem that’s going to go away… They have studied it. They know very much. In fact, we’re very close to a vaccine.”
February 26: “The 15 (cases in the US) within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero.”
February 26: “We're going very substantially down, not up.”
February 27: “One day it’s like a miracle, it will disappear.”
February 28: “We're ordering a lot of supplies. We're ordering a lot of, uh, elements that frankly we wouldn't be ordering unless it was something like this. But we're ordering a lot of different elements of medical.”
March 2: “You take a solid flu vaccine, you don't think that could have an impact, or much of an impact, on corona?”
March 2: “A lot of things are happening, a lot of very exciting things are happening and they’re happening very rapidly.”
March 4: “If we have thousands or hundreds of thousands of people that get better just by, you know, sitting around and even going to work — some of them go to work, but they get better.”
March 5: “I NEVER said people that are feeling sick should go to work.”
March 5: “The United States… has, as of now, only 129 cases… and 11 deaths. We are working very hard to keep these numbers as low as possible!”
March 6: “I think we’re doing a really good job in this country at keeping it down… a tremendous job at keeping it down.”
March 6: “Anybody right now, and yesterday, anybody that needs a test gets a test. They’re there. And the tests are beautiful…. the tests are all perfect like the letter was perfect. The transcription was perfect. Right? This was not as perfect as that but pretty good.”
March 6: “I like this stuff. I really get it. People are surprised that I understand it… Every one of these doctors said, ‘How do you know so much about this?’ Maybe I have a natural ability. Maybe I should have done that instead of running for president.”
March 6: “I don't need to have the numbers double because of one ship that wasn't our fault.”
March 8: “We have a perfectly coordinated and fine tuned plan at the White House for our attack on CoronaVirus.”
March 9: “This blindsided the world.”
March 9: "The Fake News Media and their partner, the Democrat Party, is doing everything within its semi-considerable power (it used to be greater!) to inflame the CoronaVirus situation, far beyond what the facts would warrant.”
March 10: "It will go away. Just stay calm. It will go away."
March 13: “ . . . National Emergency . . . a couple of big words”
4-3 decision. Hardly unanimous. Amazing how Jersey is allowing ALL Construction activities to continue yet Wolf has shut down all contractors in Pennsylvania! And now, he has sicked the State and Local Police on contractors and is encouraging People to tattle tale/report businesses that are not in compliance with his crap. In the meantime, everytime an office of the PSP or local PD responds to a fellow installing drywall in someone's garage, he is taken away from responding to other real calls like people needing help in an emergency!
I have deleted a number of comments from readers attacking each other with vulgarities instead of addressing arguments. And I have warned several times now that I will delete all blanket condemnations of Democrats or Republicans.
Without question, Trump bungled his response to this crisis in the beginning stages, but as Doris Keanrs Goodwin observes in her latest book (Leasdership in Turbulent Times), most American presidents have bungled in the beginning stages of a crisis. They are judged by the outcome, not the initial screw-ups. After downplaying this matter, Trump did get religion and has been more realistic and helpful in recent weeks.
As for the media, some sources have been irresponsible and engaged in sensationalism.
Wolf has overplayed this crisis. His approach has done far more harm to Pennsylvanians than Covid-19 ever could. It appears he is trying to pretend to be Governor Cuomo, but he's no Cuomo.
8:47 - I appreciate you taking the time to lay out the real truth. Now, will enough readers comprehend?
"I think he called the urgency and warnings a "Democrat hoax," or a "media hoax." Too busy to look for the exact quote, but let's be fair. He never called the virus itself a hoax"
I agree. He used the word hoax to describe criticism of his handling of the crisis. https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/trump-and-the-new-hoax/
"March 10: "It will go away. Just stay calm. It will go away."
This is actually truthful. It will eventually end. There is nothing wrong with attempting to calm people down, especially when they start panic buying. But without question, Trump was way off in the beginning.
Doc Rock said...
Since when does the governor and his lap dog patsies on the supreme court have the authority to suspend the Bill of Rights? Doesn't Federal law override what a dysfunctional governor and state supreme court want to do?
March 23, 2020 at 12:40 AM
Buying and bearing are not the same thing. Let go of your Gun Nut Agenda for a few days.
Anonymous said...
1:38-
A growing number of Americans understand , but not you unfortunately, politics can wait, and MUST wait. Take a breath, calm down, and help those who are suffering at this time.
Help, or get out of the way.
March 23, 2020 at 1:59 AM
Get over yourself. We're all stuck at home watching a dipshit president screw us over. Comments must be made.
Anonymous said...
Wolf will destroy the pa economy-business must start up or the country will have more damage than the virus will cause yes the virus is dangerous but as usual the political leaders is screwing it they will run us into a depression or worse a total economic collapse think for a second or two what does these so called leaders run right -- not much they will ruin the country
March 23, 2020 at 3:56 AM
But we don't know how much damage the virus will cause because President Happy Talk never got us the tests that were promised. If we had more tests, at least we'd know more about who's currently recovering from the virus and, arguably, able to return to the economy sooner rather than later. We'd also know more about the immunity issue.
But here we are.
Anonymous said...
They've just launched a huge new black market. Another unforced error by a tragically incompetent state government. They are sewing seeds of violence and their enforcement goons will pay the price as our betters sit comfortably in big homes with lots of security. This is a purposeful purge.
March 23, 2020 at 6:42 AM
Gee, I thought the purgers were all sitting in their comfy chairs as opposed to coming after you, for whatever conceivable reason. Which is it?
Anonymous said...
January 14 - China government officials tell World Heath Organization there is NO transmission from persons-to-persons. No known cases of the China Virus in America. America health officials offer to send a team of medical infectious disease experts to China. China declines our help.
January 27 - America establishes a special committee in our country to monitor the situation and begin a response.
January 29 - President Trump stops all flights to and from China. China virus team here, expands a network to begin preparation here.
Moral of the story?
Change your television channel.
March 23, 2020 at 7:06 AM
So why didn't the special committee make a few calls to learn how woefully unprepared we are and then, especially, get the supply chain moving? THAT WAS TWO MONTHS AGO. AND IT'S STILL NOT MOVING.
9:45 -
Thank you for asking. The answer is, the manufacturing and delivery supply chain cannot be radically changed in such a short time frame. It’s a COMPLEX formula in which any ONE (1) part of the ‘machine’ can screw-up many other parts. If your car starts to show a crazy noise, you might have to remove all 8 spark plugs to ring the ONE that must be replaced. If you can’t quickly find a new spark plug a couple blocks away, the ‘fix’ takes longer than we hope it would.
I contend, no other President could have made some of this happen any quicker. If you have a name to suggest, also list what they would have done differently to have this solved by now.
But you didn't answer the question: why didn't the task force on the Trump Virus get moving back in JANUARY? Or, for that matter, YESTERDAY?
10:00 - We’ll, I believe they DID get things moving early. The also found some areas of resistance, etc. A situation like this has NEVER happened before. Even now, steps to a solution are being resisted. While we are all trying to figure this out, availability of items has increased greatly. Particularly the face mask supply.
The three Democrats, who were most recently voted in, went against the Guv. Saylor and Mundy the two R's supported the lockdown. Why am I scratching my head?
Because you expected partisanship from the court and didn't get it.
10:14 - Because no individual representing either party knows exactly how to handle this? This is why making this political is just wrong. Now, if you are scratching your head, and others are not, it could be that new shampoo you purchased!
Anonymous said...
10:00 - We’ll, I believe they DID get things moving early. The also found some areas of resistance, etc. A situation like this has NEVER happened before. Even now, steps to a solution are being resisted. While we are all trying to figure this out, availability of items has increased greatly. Particularly the face mask supply.
Dude, they STILL haven't done it. I suffered through yesterday's incredibly rambling press conference, and got no specifics about what particular supplies had been delivered by now, exactly what is coming and when (except that NYC supposedly will get 1,000 gal. of hand sanitizer on Tue. and one of the navy hospital shits will be in NYC in 3-4 weeks--assuming, of course, that these representations hold up any better than earlier ones), or exactly which businesses are stepping up to produce PPEs.
By all means, tell me where you purportedly have found that information .
I think we need to buy more guns so that we can defend the toilet paper that we've hoarded.
10:24 - I watched the ENTIRE press conference. I listened very carefully WITHOUT regard to politics. You see, I’m not registered either Democrat or Republican. My ‘side’ can’t lose!
I'm not talking about politics, but results. Can you answer my questions about the availability of PPE's and tests? Seein' as how you're not supposedly not distracted by politics and all...
Anonymous said...
10:14 - Because no individual representing either party knows exactly how to handle this? This is why making this political is just wrong. Now, if you are scratching your head, and others are not, it could be that new shampoo you purchased!
March 23, 2020 at 10:23 AM
I think we now clearly can say that a majority of the state Supreme Court believes that Gov. Wolf's modified order is lawful. Government officials have to actually make decisions about public policy, unlike the rest of us.
10:42 - I don’t have a good answer to satisfy you, or maybe to suggest the whole thing again on YouTube. Exact numbers of products being delivered now, and having already been delivered before yesterday WERE stated by more than one speaker.
There were some numbers offered early on, but they were very, very small. There was nothing that showed a grasp of the big picture. And the governors and mayor still are complaining that they don't know on what they can count. the Trump Virus task force has been around now for TWO MONTHS.
10:23 You are the winner! or closest to it. I actually use liberal tears now to shampoo as I have a sensitive scalp.
The scratching the head comment was sarcasm. Everything you read these days will have you believe R's act one way and D's act in another. Funny how human beings can surprise you from time to time, especially judges.
Well, at least we've got a bead on you.
March 23, 2020 at 7:40 AM Anonymous said...
why did we not stop the economy for the flu..
We just did. It helps keep those numbers down too.
However I agree some of this has gone too far. No reason why a builder couldn't still work on a house. Home foundation workers, plumbers, electricians, drywall installers, etc. usually work separate times as the work progresses. He also shutdown lumber and construction material manufacturing which would be needed for the building trades to continue.
Washington Examiner now claims after the last major virus H1N1, our nation’s normal on-hand supply of face masks was depleted. After that crisis, health officials requested an immediate purchase of 110 MILLION replacement masks. That request was ignored.
So imagine ignoring such needs when the Trump Virus showed up--and Trump's STILL DOING IT.
9:33 - "Buying and bearing are not the same thing. Let go of your Gun Nut Agenda for a few days."
Any government action to suspend any right enumerated in the Constitution should be of great concern to everyone. Not worried about the Second Amendment? How about free speech? Due process? The right to petition the government?
BTW, how can a citizen "keep and bear arms" if they can't legally buy them? Oh, I know, they obtain them illegally. Does that make you happy?
Doc Rock said...
9:33 - "Buying and bearing are not the same thing. Let go of your Gun Nut Agenda for a few days."
Any government action to suspend any right enumerated in the Constitution should be of great concern to everyone. Not worried about the Second Amendment? How about free speech? Due process? The right to petition the government?
BTW, how can a citizen "keep and bear arms" if they can't legally buy them? Oh, I know, they obtain them illegally. Does that make you happy?
March 23, 2020 at 12:59 PM
No one's taking your guns away from you, cowboy, and I'm guessing you already have a few. I sure hope you're resisting the urge to buy them illegally, but if you don't I hope you get caught.
Neither is anyone censoring our speech or denying us due process (the courts still are receiving filings), and I still can petition my government.
I'm a lot more worried abut the Trump Virus rigfh5t now--and, to be honest, cowboys like you.
My business is open and traffic was surprisingly brisk on the way in. The order is being roundly defied, as people and businesses must keep working to support government workers who are on vacation. Any shutdown or shelter-in-place order should be accompanied by a notification that ALL TAXES ARE LIKEWISE SUSPENDED. How else will they be paid? My employees are onboard and we won't be shutdown without a physical confrontation.
"Because you expected partisanship from the court and didn't get it."
I expected it, too.
"Dude, they STILL haven't done it. I suffered through yesterday's incredibly rambling press conference, and got no specifics about what particular supplies had been delivered by now, exactly what is coming and when (except that NYC supposedly will get 1,000 gal. of hand sanitizer on Tue. and one of the navy hospital shits will be in NYC in 3-4 weeks--assuming, of course, that these representations hold up any better than earlier ones), or exactly which businesses are stepping up to produce PPEs."
Then you did not watch the news conference or are looking it with partisan lens. I detest Trump, but he was very specific and so were the others who spoke.
Anonymous said...
My business is open and traffic was surprisingly brisk on the way in. The order is being roundly defied, as people and businesses must keep working to support government workers who are on vacation. Any shutdown or shelter-in-place order should be accompanied by a notification that ALL TAXES ARE LIKEWISE SUSPENDED. How else will they be paid? My employees are onboard and we won't be shutdown without a physical confrontation.
March 23, 2020 at 1:11 PM
Until you get a visit by a Pennsylvania State Trooper because some nit wit reported you. The Governor is encouraging people to rat on each other similar to WW2 Europe. This is all to surreal that a single leader can mobilize a whole Law Enforcement branch to crash down on law abiding people/businesses. What did Ben Franklin say about freedom? Look it up!
"Neither is anyone censoring our speech or denying us due process (the courts still are receiving filings), and I still can petition my government."
When our property, i.e,. the right to earn a living, is taken away without notice or an opportunity to be heard, that's a violation of due process.
Wow, so you're "supporting government workers who are on vacation". That sure sounds vital to me.
So how far are you willing to go with is? Ready to shoot a police officer who's not on vacation?
Bernie O'Hare said...
"Neither is anyone censoring our speech or denying us due process (the courts still are receiving filings), and I still can petition my government."
When our property, i.e,. the right to earn a living, is taken away without notice or an opportunity to be heard, that's a violation of due process.
March 23, 2020 at 1:23 PM
Oh, so now we're down to SUBSTANTIVE due process. Fine: a majority of the state Supreme Court says otherwise. What part of "emergency" can't you spell?
The police will have to shoot working people (their neighbors?) who've been provided ZERO TAX relief and must keep working. For the overall good, government workers should be immediately placed on unemployment and assistance programs and taxes should be suspended - for anyone not being permitted by government to work. If the government is still going to require its taxes - but not permit businesses to make revenue to pay those taxes - immediate steps should be taken to slash the cost of government.
I haven't read the police threaten anyone with violence, just one of our liberty-loving posters here.
The question was asked. I doubt PSP will be shooting their fellow citizens, either. It would be a Tiananmen Square moment captured on dozens of cellphones. They can likely be repelled by hardy coughing. The point is to illustrate the folly of these authoritarian edicts and the desperate situations they create. It's heartwarming to see the defiance. Our government has gone underground to safety. It cannot be relied upon when things get bad. Enjoy your paid vacation.
Yes, defiance is so heartwarming, especially when it's coupled with talk of "physical confrontation" or coughing at officers. You people are such patriots!
Perhaps officers should use discretion when dealing with their friends and neighbors. I suspect they will, thus sharing in the defiance. If "just following orders" means shooting citizens who are simply trying to feed their families, we have more serious problems than we know. Judges ultimately refused to enforce Prohibition's Volstead Act. When asked directly about enforcement procedures, Wolf just mumbled and indicated it really wasn't going to happen. He's a cowardly idiot. But I don't think he's reached the point of shooting hard-working Pennsylvanians .... yet. There's no reason to shut down your business.
You're not reading very closely. The only threats I've heard are from "upstanding" citizens who say they'll defy attempts to enforce the governor's order. Look how quickly it became talk of why the police shouldn't shoot people!
Nits will hear what they want to hear.
Wolf just stated he really won't be enforcing anything and hopes everyone will just comply. No reason to close.
Yes, not like there's an epidemic, right?
"Oh, so now we're down to SUBSTANTIVE due process. Fine: a majority of the state Supreme Court says otherwise. What part of "emergency" can't you spell?"
I can spell but you don't know the law. The requirement of notice and a hearing is procedural, not substantive, due process. The Court is simply wrong and there might be a much different result if this goes to the US Supreme Court.
Nothing in the Emergency Management Code gives Wolf the right to suspend the Constitution. Also, I maintain that, even under the statute, he has exceeded his authority.
"Wolf just stated he really won't be enforcing anything and hopes everyone will just comply. No reason to close."
That's good because I doubt any law enforcement agency would follow his directive. They have better things to do.
WOLF--wants to destroy the trump economy just look at pelosi and schumer they are trying today to stop the republicans from helping the business--THE dems are very bad people--evil people
Bernie O'Hare said...
"Oh, so now we're down to SUBSTANTIVE due process. Fine: a majority of the state Supreme Court says otherwise. What part of "emergency" can't you spell?"
I can spell but you don't know the law. The requirement of notice and a hearing is procedural, not substantive, due process. The Court is simply wrong and there might be a much different result if this goes to the US Supreme Court.
Nothing in the Emergency Management Code gives Wolf the right to suspend the Constitution. Also, I maintain that, even under the statute, he has exceeded his authority.
March 23, 2020 at 3:16 PM
Now now, Bernie: substantive due process includes the question of how far into private life the government can intrude, procedure aside. I would've thought you knew that. I actually was giving you another ground on which to base your argument, as you certainly aren't getting anywhere on procedural due process.
Again: it's an emergency. Your view lost, and the government doesn't have to hold millions of hearings. The governor won.
Anonymous said...
WOLF--wants to destroy the trump economy just look at pelosi and schumer they are trying today to stop the republicans from helping the business--THE dems are very bad people--evil people
March 23, 2020 at 3:24 PM
Well, my golly. Trump's the one who's prepared to risk millions of lives so that the stock market looks a little better. Evil is as evil does, Forrest.
The inevitable end result of Wolf's actions (including saying he won't enforce his order) is even greater distrust of government by the people.
My heart goes out to the millions of Pennsylvanians who have lost their livelihoods, and the thousands of small business owners who will see years of hard work evaporate.
Meanwhile, Amazon is flourishing because decent folk across the country are denied the opportunity to support their local businesses.
I guess Jeff Bezos needs the extra cash.
Hard to believe but our American Congress, NO, make that our American Clown College, is debating if it should grow the Relief Package to include items that have absolutely NOTHING to do with defeating the China Virus or helping business stay afloat. You know, the people who employ us.
They are debating credits for solar panels, new carbon taxes for airlines, and Federal funding for abortions.
You might want to read this twice, but it is TRUE.
16K have died globally vs 22K flue deaths in the US over the last three months. S Korea only had 6 new cases today after six weeks of outbreak. The dire predictions don't come close to squaring with the reported numbers from WHO, NIH, and CDC. Why are we doing this, again?
There's no reason to shelter and the government is powerless to make you do it. Nobody is being arrested and the jails are being emptied. Do what you want. If our leaders were truly concerned, they wouldn't be issuing vague, unenforceable edicts from the comfort of their couches while their Netflix is paused and they're cashing full time checks. They seem pretty calm about things. We should take their lead.
Sincerely,
I've always washed my hands
*flu
1,100 Pennsyvanians die each year in automobile accidents that are completely preventable if all would simply shelter in place. Coronavirus has taken 6 Pennsylvanians, so far. Let's shelter because perception is reality.
Senators are stalling an aid bill over abortion and boardroom diversity. See? It's really not that serious a crisis. Watch what they do vs listening to what they say. Go outside and live your lives. They're doing business as usual and so should you.
As to the gun issue raised the emergency powers act allows the Gov to stop gun sales.
The cute part is that the law was installed in 1978.
where were the gun purists then?
They wait until now to bitch about the act?
sorry that dog don't hunt
Even the attorney suing admits the Gov has the power to curtail gun sales under a natural disaster--he cites it in his complaint.
So politics to go after the Gov is in play.
The Court realized this for what it was ---a political attack
I’m watching several Senators who will be quickly voted out of office at the next opportunity. Stunning for them to watch the citizenry burn, while demanding it continue on national television. Election fraud might manage to save a few, however.
4.11
" Coronavirus has taken 6 Pennsylvanians, so far"
try
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6912e2.htm?s_cid=mm6912e2_w
" COVID-19 in the United States indicates that fatality was highest in persons aged ≥85, ranging from 10% to 27%, followed by 3% to 11% among persons aged 65–84 years, 1% to 3% among persons aged 55-64 years, <1% among persons aged 20–54 years, and no fatalities among persons aged ≤19 years.
and
"Pennsylvania population by age
Number Percent
65 to 74 years 969,272 7.9
75 to 84 years 712,326 5.8
85 years and over 237,567 1.9
So the numbers will be much higher.
more like 60 thousand and that is using the low percentage at high percentage 200 thousand
in a worse case scenario.
so breaking the spread of the disease is paramount.
arguing about which taxidermy shop just has to be open is just insane
Doc Rock said...
Anonymous said...
Hard to believe but our American Congress, NO, make that our American Clown College, is debating if it should grow the Relief Package to include items that have absolutely NOTHING to do with defeating the China Virus or helping business stay afloat. You know, the people who employ us.
They are debating credits for solar panels, new carbon taxes for airlines, and Federal funding for abortions.
You might want to read this twice, but it is TRUE.
March 23, 2020 at 3:49 PM
The Governor can't win with you, can he? Even if he doesn't enforce his orders and lets vectors like you spread the Trump Virus all over the state, he's STILL closing down business and suffocating the economy. Make up your mind.
Anonymous said...
16K have died globally vs 22K flue deaths in the US over the last three months. S Korea only had 6 new cases today after six weeks of outbreak. The dire predictions don't come close to squaring with the reported numbers from WHO, NIH, and CDC. Why are we doing this, again?
There's no reason to shelter and the government is powerless to make you do it. Nobody is being arrested and the jails are being emptied. Do what you want. If our leaders were truly concerned, they wouldn't be issuing vague, unenforceable edicts from the comfort of their couches while their Netflix is paused and they're cashing full time checks. They seem pretty calm about things. We should take their lead.
Sincerely,
I've always washed my hands
March 23, 2020 at 3:52 PM
But it's not your decision, now, is it? I'll take my chances with Gov. Wolf. I like the cut of his jib.
Anonymous said...
Senators are stalling an aid bill over abortion and boardroom diversity. See? It's really not that serious a crisis. Watch what they do vs listening to what they say. Go outside and live your lives. They're doing business as usual and so should you.
March 23, 2020 at 4:18 PM
You don't look so well. Do you have a cough?
Relax. Gun sales are more brisk than ever today in our state today. Let's call it a Black Monday, of sorts. And the state ain't tracking any of it. Smarter by half than we ought to be.
3.52
" The dire predictions don't come close to squaring with the reported numbers from WHO, NIH, and CDC. Why are we doing this, again?"
42 thousand cases with 520 dead or 1.2 percent current as of 5 pm
two million olds in PA so 22 thousand at worst so let's say only 20 percent catch it.
that is 4400 dead.
so stopping the spread is critical.
As to the government being powerless?
keep thinking that the surprise will be that much greater
Anonymous said...
Relax. Gun sales are more brisk than ever today in our state today. Let's call it a Black Monday, of sorts. And the state ain't tracking any of it. Smarter by half than we ought to be.
March 23, 2020 at 5:35 PM
Smart isn't the first word that comes to mind.
But don't you understand that President Happy Talk is smarter than all of those scientists?
Bernie... any discussion, talk, thoughts out there about real estate tax relief? Local, County,and School Districts really need to get the message out that relief will be provided. This should include water, sewer and municipal trash charges. These taxes and fees should be pro rated based on the Governor's shut down of business and industry. It is only fair. PS: Same with the PA earned income tax and municipal earned income taxes and business privlidge taxes and emergency 911 telephone bill tax.
yES. I'll have a story about county taxes and Allentown taxes tomorrow. Will try to find out about Bethlehem and Easton.
6:03 said this. I deleted his other points bc he violated my comment policy."You and some others are angry at the governor's order and the majority Supreme Court decision. You are really deleting opinions that agree with them and not you and some others. "
My response: Cut the horseshit. I delete comments making generalizations about parties or that have called other commenters names. And by the way, comments about my comments policy are subject to deletion.
"Now now, Bernie: substantive due process includes the question of how far into private life the government can intrude, procedure aside."
What occurred was a violation of procedural due process. There was no notice or opportunity to be heard. If procedural due process were followed, I could then argue this is a violation of substantive due process, but didn't. You don't know what you're talking about.
Hey Bernie. the poster was right and you should cut the horseshit. You have a bug up your ass about Wolf. You have allowed numerous political shot posts. He is following the lead of numerous governors. You happen to be pissed about this move.
Whitehall school board will tax big again this year --they put taxers up every last year one of the highest increase in the state-they keep building and even put in a new football field and the tax payers will pay for it not the hospital--Harakal of the township also hiT THE PEOPLE WITH A BIG TAX INCREASE--we voted him out in 1992--yet he was put into office by his buddies and then reelected by the dems expect more taxes next year.whitehall is a high tax township and with the people we put in office expect more of the same
9:00 pm, I have deleted you. You have mis-stated my position on Wolf's Exec Order so you could knock it down and based on your own incorrect understanding of due process. At this point, additional comments from you will be deleted unless you identify yourself. I am not going to argue with some anonymous troll forever.
"Hey Bernie. the poster was right and you should cut the horseshit. You have a bug up your ass about Wolf. You have allowed numerous political shot posts. He is following the lead of numerous governors. You happen to be pissed about this move."
Yes, I am pissed bc he abused his authority, and I hope this matter is appealed to the US Supreme Court. The fact that other governors are violating the Constitution is no justification for his doing so. And yes, I have long considered Wolf a phony. He was elected as a reform candidate but vetoed the only reform measure enacted by the legislature.
Thank you for this entry. We of the tinfoil hat society had no where to go since they kicked Alex Jones off of social media. Next topic, government experiments on dogmen.
Sorry Bernie but sadly that is what you are becoming. You might as well join the "This is a hoax/conspiracy" crowd.
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