In addition, he has announced that "[d]ue to the high volume of waiver requests, we are delaying enforcement of our order that non-life-sustaining businesses in Pennsylvania must close their physical locations to slow the spread of COVID-19."
If anything is non-life-sustaining, it's Tom Wolf.
With his histrionics, he's done more harm to Pennsylvania than Covid-19 ever could. Here's his updated, but still confusing, list.
Two lawsuits have been filed in the Pa. Supreme Court, invoking that Court's King's Bench powers for extraordinary relief. One of them, filed by gun rights advocate Joshua Prince, makes some compelling arguments.
First, Governor Wolf has declared a disaster emergency, but there is no "disaster." Disaster is defined in the law to include “[a] man-made disaster, natural disaster, or war-caused disaster.” Under this definition, the only kind of disaster this could be is a "natural disaster," defined as "“[a]ny hurricane, tornado, storm, flood, high water, winddriven water, tidal wave, earthquake, landslide, mudslide, snowstorm, drought, fire, explosion or other catastrophe which results in substantial damage to property, hardship, suffering or possible loss of life.” The statute appears to be designed to address weather-related events, not an unexpected disease.
Second, let''s assume that Covid-19 is a "natural disaster." If so, Governor Wolf has the authority to "[s]uspend or limit the sale, dispensing or transportation of alcoholic beverages, firearms, explosives and combustibles." But nothing in the Emergency Services Management Code gives him the ability to shutter nearly all business. Wolf appears to have exceeded his statutory authority.
Third, Wolf's actions deprive almost everyone of their liberty and property, without due process of law.
Fourth, Prince argues that Wolf's order infringes on gun rights protected by the federal and state constitutions.
Fifth, Prince argues that, under the state constitution, only the Supreme Court has the authority to regulate the practice of law.
The Commonwealth has responded to Prince's suit, but I do not have its argument.
Wolf's histrionics has done more harm to Pennsylvania than Covid-19 ever could. As Justice Brandeis once observed, "The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding.”
Here's Wolf's updated, but still confusing, list.
UPDATED - Industry Operatio... by Governor Tom Wolf on Scribd
(Originally published 9:41 pm).
(Updated again at 11:19 am)
96 comments:
Hey Bernie, I have a request. Could you do some kind of feel good piece like tomorrow ? You know you have a lot of viewers and I fell something like that would help with the anxiety many of us are feeling. Thanks for the consideration. Thanks for running this blog.
Some of the original list put smaller, non-chain, retailers at a disadvantage. For example, consumers could deal with places like Lowe’s and Home Depot, but not the “little guys” who offered many of the same products. Still expect his latest rushed design to continue in more panic over the weekend.
Tom "Not So Terrific" Wolf's list is still silent on pharmacies/drugstores. No mention anywhere. Apparently, they don't exist in Tommy Boy's massive administrative bureaucracy.
You can't fix stupid.
"Histrionics"? Bernie, when you get a pole shoved up your ass, it seems to take forever to get it dislodged. The only thing good about this post is you laid off Zrinski even though there were council meetings yesterday. These are uncharted waters - the guy is trying to protect us from ourselves. Geesh. Find some lube and a horse to pull that thing out. You do realize 647 people died in Italy yesterday from the virus? You want to see panic - imagine of we are like that in two weeks time.
What an incompetent blogger.
1:25 - Connolly Victim "the guy is trying to protect us from ourselves."
This is how authoritarians get rooted. "We're doing this for your own good."
Notice how it is mainly Dem governors (NY, CA, NJ, PA, WA, etc.) who are using this crisis to give the state draconian power over the people. Don't expect them to be less authoritarian once this passes. If they succeed in treating us like sheep, they'll just want more power. Power is their drug of choice.
We have become The Peoples' Republic of Pennsylvania.
It’s a shithole Commonwealth.
anon 2:36, now you are the comic relief we all need. Keep it up!
2:36
They are the leaders and have responded as required. It was the Democrats and the "Fake News" that warned of what was coming and reported it accurately.
How long did it take Trump, his Fox News cohorts, and right-wing radio hosts to finally admit they needed to do a 180? We lost weeks to prepare and reduce infection numbers.
You think Republican Governors won't be doing the same in the coming weeks?
If Bernie and you want to complain about mistakes, how about focusing on the mistake of raising a generation of Millenials being selfish, self-absorbed assholes who don't give a shit about their parents and grand-parent health as they gather in large groups and party because they are relatively unaffected.
At least the beer distributors are open
In order to fully understand the validity of one opinion over another it is necessary to study BOTH perspectives. Failure to do so is what leads to the hysteria and panic we are witnessing now. Far too many posters are closed minded blockheads. They will scratch and claw their way to what they consider to be ‘winning.’ Even though their pursuit of ‘winning’ is creating a LOSING condition for everyone. They are illogical, as they, too, are part of the ‘everyone.’
Now that we all have more time on our hands, I recommend reading the VERY LOGICAL contribution from Aaron Ginn as found today at medium.com. It’s lengthy but the very first paragraph perfectly matches Bernie’s latest post. Bernie claims the panic is more dangerous than the actual virus.
Well, yeah it is!
Panic is more dangerous.
I saw a senior shopper at a local Giant take advantage of an earlier hours to load her basket with toilet paper. I heard her tell her husband, who felt the two biggest packs were enough (I think they were 18-packs), "It says, 'Limited to two items.'" She then grabbed two 12-packs, 2 8-packs, two 4-packs, and two single rolls.
At least he had the balls to refuse getting another basket. She wanted him to repeat her stupidity by paying separately.
Hopefully this will eventually bring changes to our liquor laws since we cannot purchase a bottle of liquor in the entire state. That is with the exception of the small craft distilleries with their own storefronts.
The Ginn read was very informative. Thank you 7:26 AM !!
"You do realize 647 people died in Italy yesterday from the virus? "
Connolly Victim, aka Don Moore, I am well aware that Covid-19 is a serious problem. When Trump attempted to underplay it, I was critical of him. On the other hand, what Wolf, Cuomo and others are doing is ridiculous. In Wolf's case, he has exceeded his authority. I always feared that Trump would be the authoritarian but it turns out it is Wolf.
The death rate from Covid-19 worldwide is currently 4.2%. In the US, it is 1.3%. In Pa, it is 0.37%. This warrants caution, but not the extreme measures taken by the Governor, which are also an infringement on our civil liberties. Doc Roc hit the nail on the head. You justify his violation of our basic human rights as being for our own good. We have to be protected from ourselves, you say. I could read lines like that in Orwell. You're right about one thing. I do not like getting poles shoved up my ass. That must make me different from you.
China- 1.3 billion has had 81,000 cases .0069% caught the cold nearly all recovered.
Italy- 70 million has had 50,000 cases .07% caught the cold nearly all recovered.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-IpYgEfUqA
"The death rate from Covid-19 worldwide is currently 4.2%."
7.5 billion x 4.2% = 315 million deaths?
"In the US, it is 1.3%"
330 million x 1.3%= 4.29 million deaths?
"In Pa, it is 0.37%"
12.8 million x .37% = 47,360 deaths?
Doc Rock said...
Tom "Not So Terrific" Wolf's list is still silent on pharmacies/drugstores. No mention anywhere. Apparently, they don't exist in Tommy Boy's massive administrative bureaucracy.
You can't fix stupid.
March 21, 2020 at 12:48 AM
You're the proof! Don't you think the pharmacies know that they can stay open? I've seen several open today, including my own. I think you just want to draw some fire away from You Know Who (and everybody knows, don't they?).
Doc Rock said...
1:25 - Connolly Victim "the guy is trying to protect us from ourselves."
This is how authoritarians get rooted. "We're doing this for your own good."
Notice how it is mainly Dem governors (NY, CA, NJ, PA, WA, etc.) who are using this crisis to give the state draconian power over the people. Don't expect them to be less authoritarian once this passes. If they succeed in treating us like sheep, they'll just want more power. Power is their drug of choice.
We have become The Peoples' Republic of Pennsylvania.
Seriously? People. Are, Dying.
Republican governors are less active because they don't yet have permission from Rush Li.mbaugh and Sean Hannity
11:31, I agree it is a problem, but that is no justification for scaring everyone like Wolf did and for assuming powers he does not have. We fought a revolutionary war for a government that is free of authoritarians, remember?
Anonymous said...
anon 2:36, now you are the comic relief we all need. Keep it up!
March 21, 2020 at 4:56 AM
Written by himself, I'll wager. (That's how authoritarians get started.)
Anonymous said...
It’s a shithole Commonwealth.
March 21, 2020 at 4:38 AM
So why are you still here?
"Notice how it is mainly Dem governors (NY, CA, NJ, PA, WA, etc.) who are using this crisis to give the state draconian power over the people. Don't expect them to be less authoritarian once this passes. If they succeed in treating us like sheep, they'll just want more power. Power is their drug of choice"
Doc Roc, quit trying to make this a partisan issue. I agree with your points, but I happen to be one of many Democrats who are convinced Wolf exceeded his statutory authority and stepped all over the constitution. That is what this about, not one's political party. When you go in that direction, it provokes a reaction from other partisans and then the main points are lost.
11:38 AM
Nice inversion.
Bernie O'Hare said...
11:31, I agree it is a problem, but that is no justification for scaring everyone like Wolf did and for assuming powers he does not have. We fought a revolutionary war for a government that is free of authoritarians, remember?
March 21, 2020 at 11:38 AM
The police power of the government expands significantly in emergencies. Reasonable people can disagree about what exactly are its limits in a given situation, but the people who we elect to executive positions like governor are going to get a lot of deference in a court challenge.
As Justice Brandeis once observed, "The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding.”
The federal government is letting the rules "slip" due to their perceived importance of getting legislation passed as quickly as possible. Perhaps with good intentions, perhaps for selfish reasons. The ends seem to be justifying the means in many cases. That concerns me. At any level.
And what particular rules are those?
"The police power of the government expands significantly in emergencies. Reasonable people can disagree about what exactly are its limits in a given situation, but the people who we elect to executive positions like governor are going to get a lot of deference in a court challenge."
True, and he can do all kinds of things, but the Emergency Management Code gives him no authority to suspend all business. And the Constitution still applies. This is authoritarianism.
12.04 try
https://www2.cliu.org/documents/agency_forms/PandemicFluComplete.pdf
35 pa csa 7301
under f additional powers section
As to the gun humper suit --that ;ogic means gun shops by law must be open 24/7 in case someone wants to feed their fetish.
they must have power back up and police escorts to prevent anything from keeping you from buying guns and ammo.
it is basically insane given an pandemic.
11:21, You correctly cite the law and now you should read it. It is highly questionable whether a pandemic fits the definition of a natural disaster. But assuming it does, and I would err on the side of making that assumption, there is nothing in thew law giving Wolf the authority to close down nearly all businesses. And that's before we even look at the Constitution, both state and federal.
As for being a gun thumper, as you call Prince, that's irrelevant to the arguments he is making.
I am sure the Commonwealth has a response and would load it if it was available, but our transparent state government has not posted it.
11.31
" but that is no justification for scaring everyone like Wolf did"
So at 2 percent fatality rate CDC figures 1.7 million dead.
at 3.4 percent you have 7.6 million dead nationwide.
PA has 13 million or 26 thousand dead in PA.
so let's pander to the crowd that does not think it is a problem and guess at .5 percent fatality rate or 6000+ dead in PA.
sounds like a serious problem,one that means if a person just cannot go to the mall and buy a batman cookie jar well TFB
12.54
section 7 says the Gov can determine occupancy of premises.
i agree it is a stretch.
Here's one to ponder.
Public meetings are required to be held. For boroughs, its one a month. Townships have to hold 2 each month. Not sure about the county. At these meetings a quorum must be physically present and the meeting must be open to the public.
How will those be conducted when told not to gather in large groups and 6 foot distances are supposed to be maintained?
Bernie O'Hare said...
"The police power of the government expands significantly in emergencies. Reasonable people can disagree about what exactly are its limits in a given situation, but the people who we elect to executive positions like governor are going to get a lot of deference in a court challenge."
True, and he can do all kinds of things, but the Emergency Management Code gives him no authority to suspend all business. And the Constitution still applies. This is authoritarianism.
March 21, 2020 at 12:04 PM
And I'm saying that a chief executive's are not necessarily limited to STATUTES. I believe there's an inherent constitutional authority to act in the case of an emergency, akin to Lincoln's suspension of the writ of habeas corpus during the Civil War.
This is not the time to take political party sides. There is a heath problem to be solved. One that COULD touch every American family, and possibly children who don’t even use the word ‘politics. Yes, our economy IS being damaged, our savings accounts reduced.
Seems as if it is us against them and them thems have been given the power by us? There for we who are smarter would be in charge?
Such simple answers for complicated questions are right on spot. Now seeing as we will have no election in 2020 we all need to unite, pitchforks and torches in hand to storm the castle.
"And I'm saying that a chief executive's are not necessarily limited to STATUTES. I believe there's an inherent constitutional authority to act in the case of an emergency, akin to Lincoln's suspension of the writ of habeas corpus during the Civil War."
Your analogy is a bit off. Lincoln acted under the authority of an obviously unconstitutional statute, not some nebulous inherent power in the constitution. Wolf cites no constitutional authority for his action. He is outside the law. If state police arrest anyone on Monday, it should be him.
Bernie,
Thanks for calling out Don Moore. He likes to hide, not that well, on his blog. He also likes to speak for others and misquote them as well, me included. If anyone has something lodged up their rear it's Don Moore. Just talk to the guy for 30 seconds.
An anonymous employee working under a strict media policy.
Although a related statute was passed later, initially Lincoln acted unilaterally to suspend the writ. He spoke of severing the limb to save the tree. If that's not an argument for inherent authority in an emergency, then what is?
Lincoln never claimed inherent power. He claimed the powers conferred on him by Article II and also the power conferred on Congress. I do not see a constitutional basis for what Wolf has done.
Really? He sure didn't base it on a statute or constitutional provision:
On Sept. 24, 1862, President Lincoln issued the following proclamation suspending the right to writs of habeas corpus nationwide:
By the President of the United States of America
A Proclamation
Whereas, it has become necessary to call into service not only volunteers but also portions of the militia of the States by draft in order to suppress the insurrection existing in the United States, and disloyal persons are not adequately restrained by the ordinary processes of law from hindering this measure and from giving aid and comfort in various ways to the insurrection;
Now, therefore, be it ordered, first, that during the existing insurrection and as a necessary measure for suppressing the same, all Rebels and Insurgents, their aiders and abettors within the United States, and all persons discouraging volunteer enlistments, resisting militia drafts, or guilty of any disloyal practice, affording aid and comfort to Rebels against the authority of United States, shall be subject to martial law and liable to trial and punishment by Courts Martial or Military Commission:
Second. That the Writ of Habeas Corpus is suspended in respect to all persons arrested, or who are now, or hereafter during the rebellion shall be, imprisoned in any fort, camp, arsenal, military prison, or other place of confinement by any military authority of by the sentence of any Court Martial or Military Commission.
In witness whereof, I have hereunto set my hand, and caused the seal of the United States to be affixed.
Done at the City of Washington this twenty fourth day of September, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and sixty-two, and of the Independence of the United States the 87th.
Abraham Lincoln
By the President:
William H. Seward, Secretary of State.
Really. Read this: https://www.loc.gov/law/help/usconlaw/pdf/Inherent-March07.pdf
He based his authority exactly as I said. Wolf is no Commander in Chief of anything.
try
35P.S. § 2140.301(a),
In the case of an actual or suspected outbreak of a contagious disease or
epidemic due to an actual or suspected bioterrorist or biohazardous 2 event,
the Governor, in consultation with the Secretary of Health, may temporarily
isolate or quarantine an individual or groups of individuals through a written
order if delay in imposing the isolation or quarantine through judicial
proceedings currently available to the department and local health
departments would significantly jeopardize the department's ability to
prevent or limit the transmission of a contagious or potentially contagious
disease to others. This subsection shall not require a declaration of disaster
emergency by the Governor in order to be effective.
isolate groups of people to limit transmission of diseases to others.
Bernie O'Hare said...
Really. Read this: https://www.loc.gov/law/help/usconlaw/pdf/Inherent-March07.pdf
He based his authority exactly as I said. Wolf is no Commander in Chief of anything.
March 21, 2020 at 5:29 PM
Although I respect the writer, this is only one view of an issue on which, as he acknowledges, many other respected scholars take a different position. Indeed, the article is an introduction to an entire issue on the subject.
I quite understand that Wolf is not a commander-in-chief, but precise analogies are going to be hard on something like this. Certainly the COVID-19 crisis presents unprecedented facts to the PA Supreme Court.
Apparently you have no doubt how the court will rule. I, on the other hand, would bet that Wolf's order will be sustained--although I don't claim to have 100% confidence in that.
If you can find and post the Commonwealth's briefs in either or both of the Supreme Court challenges, that would be very much appreciated.
I looked for and am unable to find the Commonwealth's argument. If I do, I will certainly link to it. Frankly, I think the only thing it has going for it is that the bench is Democratic and is probably loathe to embarrass a Democratic Governor. On the law, I think he loses. But I am willing to be educated.
"35P.S. § 2140.301(a),
In the case of an actual or suspected outbreak of a contagious disease or
epidemic due to an actual or suspected bioterrorist or biohazardous 2 event,
the Governor, in consultation with the Secretary of Health, may temporarily
isolate or quarantine an individual or groups of individuals through a written
order if delay in imposing the isolation or quarantine through judicial
proceedings currently available to the department and local health
departments would significantly jeopardize the department's ability to
prevent or limit the transmission of a contagious or potentially contagious
disease to others. This subsection shall not require a declaration of disaster
emergency by the Governor in order to be effective.
isolate groups of people to limit transmission of diseases to others"
Not quite the same thing as isolating practically the entire state by shutting down all business now, is it? I agree he could isolate and quarantine people who are infected and those with whom they have had contact. No problem there. Ironically, he has not done that buit instead screwed most workers.
"He based his authority exactly as I said. Wolf is no Commander in Chief of anything."
I respectfully disagree. Lincoln first suspended the writ, albeit narrowly, in 4/61. The article you provide says that "Lincoln took emergency action but then sought statutory authority from Congress." The author doesn't specify the statute that eventually was passed (and you certainly don't, either), but it appears to have been enacted subsequent to the proclamation of 9/62 provided above, as presumably Lincoln would have cited any statute upon which he might rely. My hunch is that he refers to the Habeas Corpus Suspension Act of 1863.
By the way, I applaud Lincoln for his admission that he did not have proper constitutional authority to unilaterally suspend the writ and subsequently pursuing congressional authority. And that's really my point: Lincoln believed that the government need not fiddle while the country burns, constitutional and statutory niceties aside, the PA Supreme Court can uphold Gov. Wolf's order on any grounds that it chooses regardless of whether Wolf argued those grounds, and think he has a pretty good shot at winning.
Bernie O'Hare said...
I looked for and am unable to find the Commonwealth's argument. If I do, I will certainly link to it. Frankly, I think the only thing it has going for it is that the bench is Democratic and is probably loathe to embarrass a Democratic Governor. On the law, I think he loses. But I am willing to be educated.
March 21, 2020 at 6:15 PM
The court also might be reluctant to tell a governor that he can't take what many see as a sensible public health measure when we're in the middle of an unprecedented epidemic, the severity or duration of which we can't predict.
Trump has, unfortunately for him, put himself into a position where he can and probably largely will be (most deservedly, in my opinion) blamed for much of the misery. A judge may say "I don't want that sort of blame, and who elected me governor, anyway?"
This would be hilarious if it wasn't so incredibly sad.
We were on the list, said Harrisburg, when corporate sought clarification.
Then, after scaring the living shit out of several dozen employees...
Ooops!
You can't make this shit up.
Don't get me wrong. Everyone is tickled to be back, though some dismissed their childcare in the interim and couldn't return right away. Just another example of why it is easy (and in my opinion, correct) to despise government.
And you're right about this not being a partisan issue. Just as many boneheads in my party think this is all just the bees knees. I have no doubt an R would be pulling the same stunt, even if only because he or she'd be crucified for "Not doing enough"
-Clem
Mayor Panto has mentioned the possibility of city employee layoffs. I wonder if he will lay off any of the hated parking enforcement scum before he lays off cops and fire fighters.
Just read on a national Conservative (sorry to upset some posters) a brilliant analysis of how much damage Wolf is doing to ALL Pennsylvanians with his closure plan. His edit could not have been very well thought out. Parts of it were clearly moronic. Even after the small adjustments he made, many closures are still idiotic and will only worsen things.
The crux of his folly is this. Wolf has seriously interfered in our Supply Chain. A system that grew out naturally, and due to actual consumer demand. One example explains why the craziness is happening in our grocery stores. Why Wolf’s closure list will GUARANTEE several more weeks of long lines and shortages of many items.
The natural food supply chain depends upon both sit-down restaurants and neighborhood grocery stores remaining open at the same time. Each segment of food consumption represents about 50% of all food consumption. Without one operating as normal, BOTH will be destroyed.
The take-out only idea for regular restaurants is not working! Not enough people are using that, and some restaurants do not have the equipment and staff to handle it. Many restaurants are simply closing outright. many in bigger cities are actually boarding-up their windows. The food producers are not able to easily modify production from large bulk (like huge sacks of flour) to smaller packaging. Trucking companies are not able to handle quick enough deliveries to so many grocery stores at the speed this panic demands.
The supply chain is being thrown out of sorts. Small businesses of all types are being damaged and may not survive this type of government interference for more than a week or two.
Please post a link so we all can read it.
I was hoping you would ask, Bernie. It’s on today’s www.conservativetreehouse.com.
Forget the politics! The analysis of the food production and trucking collapse is expressed using hot dogs as the example. Very well done and supported by MATH.
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2020/03/21/pa-turnpike-authority-reopens-closed-service-stations-to-support-truckers/#more-186993
-Clem
Will check it out.
7.07
seems to forget that a truck can drive to both a restaurant and a retail store.
if demand is low at the diner the truck hauls to the retail store.
packaging is done at the factory and is done on the fly.
hoarding is the problem not supply or logistics train.
in the past a 3 day snow storm did not destroy the supply chain.
a;so
https://hdstruckdrivinginstitute.com/semi-trucks-numbers/
"There are nearly 2 million semi trucks in operation in the U.S., and around 5.6 million semi trailers."
so 6000 trucks for hotdogs is tiny in the big picture
This expanded dialog is very helpful, provided you exchange politics with LOGIC.
These massive shutdowns, and for an indeterminate length, will only lead to panic. No one is claiming nursing homes should not be buckled-up, or people with impaired immune systems due to an existing medical condition should not take extra precaution, but to destroy the economy along the way, based on this mortality rate is not logical.
8.16
" but to destroy the economy along the way, based on this mortality rate is not logical."
so what is the acceptable death rate so someone gets to buy a batman cookie jar at the mall?
also overloading the healthcare system has costs as well.
unless sick folks should just die at home to keep Olive Garden profits up.
As was already explained, nursing homes should be closed to visitors and anyone with Covid-19 symptoms should be quarantined and police officers need to visit to ensure the person stays quarantined. That was the approach taken in S Korea and Singapore, both of which border China. They are relatively unscathed. The melodramatic approach taken here is killing business, which eventually will kill more people than Covid-19. Plus, Wolf lacks the authority.
9.01
"approach taken here is killing business, which eventually will kill more people than Covid-19."
How does an Olive Garden being closed kill more people than disease?
Closing the mall kills somehow?
I do not see the logic in that claim.
Kindly tell me what i am missing please.
The US government will soon be locking up american citzens using the same measures used to lock up war criminals against the USA? This is nothing as compaired with things to come in the future if the hoarder types don't get a grip.
Stay healthy and have a nice vacation as this has all been possible by design and a driven agenda no matter the costs to the little people!
"to keep Olive Garden profits up."
Pure partisan propaganda.
Let them stay open, and fend for themselves. They're capitalized, publicly traded. They'll figure it out without government intervention.
Instead, gubmint will shut them down, then shell out money in our kids' names, to bail them out.
But what happens to La Bella, Dolce Mamma, The Vineyard, Steve's, Pizza Joe, and all the 6 and 7 day hard working sole proprietors and their staffs?
You're killing the fabric of America, not to mention REAL Italian food ;-)
-Clem
9.33
Good,
why give the airlines anything?
or hotels or for that matter hospitals.
after all if you cannot afford the hospital stay then die at home.
Corona will decimate the seniors and leave more funds for future retirees.
the young call the disease the "boomer remover"
and look at the extra money the funeral homes can make.
and the increase in housing that will be available.
guess it depends on whether you care for all people or just some people
The question here is whether Wolf has the authority, under a statute or constitution, to shut down Pennsylvania's business.
The informative piece mentioned earlier, the virus analysis by Binn at medium.com, has now been banned on Twitter. Now, why would Twitter do such a thing? Because it doesn’t fit someone at Twitter’s narrative? We’re all those charts, graphs, and statistics proven false?
This is a time to keep an open mind, to consider different possibilities. Not to ban books.
"The question here is whether Wolf has the authority, under a statute or constitution, to shut down Pennsylvania's business."
I don't believe he does, and I remained open Friday. Closed normally for the weekend. I'm consulting with my attorney and still deciding what to do tomorrow. At some point, I expect growing push back due to social media shaming and/or increased scrutiny regarding my exceptions (as I interpret the vague list) to continue operating. The use of the term "life-sustaining" creates panic and anger as companies like Just Born dance on the head of Wolf's legal pin, claiming Peeps are life-sustaining comfort food. I don't want to name my business. It supports critical emergency services. If closed for any reason (I could have a positive test or exposure communicated to me overnight) I'm prepared to pay employees at full wages for 10 days, above and beyond whatever state and federal programs are available. After that, I'm in trouble, and so are they. Very difficult decisions about lives and livelihoods. Amid all that, I'd like to have an occasional drink at the end of these stressful days, and would prefer to have ammunition available for my legally registered weapon, as inmates are being released and only serious crimes are prosecuted, and people potentially become more desperate. And no, I don't have a shelter, more than a week's worth of TP, or freeze dried anything.
Not sure whom to believe regarding testing, but S.Korea, for all their reported success, has tested just 0.6% of their population. That's .006. That would be just under 2 million tests in the US for our population of 330,000,000. If testing is the key to S.Korea's success, it's based upon a remarkably small sample size.
In PA 0.6% would be 76,000 tests. As of yesterday, PA had tested just 4,500. We've likely missed the testing boat and should focus on hospital response for the most seriously ill. Where are the tents?
8:00 -
Thank you for your opinion. You seem to reinforce what I believe. Full shutdowns like this can NOT go on for much more than 1 week. After that, the panic will force too many to become survivalists for their families FIRST. Some will choose the route of law-breaking with acts of violence against each other.
I believe President Trump is hoping to run out the restrictions on daily life for the full 15 days as suggested by his EXPERTS. This gives time for the rise in cases to subside allowing an opportunity to equip for however many cases follow. He is wise to leave these shutdown decisions up to each state Governor. Our President is clearly not a dictator.
By allowing 50 (governors) to determine the best course of action, We are bout to see 50 possible ‘best approaches.” If just one emerges, we will be much better off. For example, The Illinois Governor put out a much less restrictive plan than the PA Governor.
My opinion is, lock-downs should be designed on a 3-4 County Regional basis, based on LOCAL needs. Why should a little hardware store in Punxsutawney be stopped from doing business? Wolf has over-reacted in a very damaging way.
Further, he should be providing HOPE. Not put-out an open ended crisis response. Better to have said these measures are being put in place for the next 3 days, and then we will re-evaluate. But, now we have hopeless panic!
He shuts down construction in the middle of cornfields or on housing lots? People can easily stay apart from one another. Wolf thinks that the whole state is some sort of City like New York or Philly where people are "on top" of each other. The chances of COVID-19 being spread at the Giant are more than some guys building a house in Plainfield Township! Maintain your distances, wash your hands, don't touch your face, don't cough at people, and stay to yourself will slow the spread of this. Draconian Quarantines will not. At some point we will need to start going about our daily lives. If you get sick, you get sick and deal with it. The hospitals and doctors will treat you.
Has everyone noticed how many news sites (print an digital) have stopped doing reader comments? Even before this craziness was rolled-out? Education requires dialogue and discernment, not censure.
Today’s article in the American Thinker provides a view that ‘politics first’ COULD be a significant player at work here.
Another bit of information revealed elsewhere proves China officials, as late as January 14 were telling the World Health Organization (WHO) there is no evidence of people-to-people transmission. American officials did act as quickly as possible despite being bogged down by Impeachment Month.
Lastly, there is good news! Our FDA has now approved Coronavirus Test that can provide results in less than 45 minutes! Distribution has started to hospitals and doctor’s offices.
I am finished providing suggested reading sites. The key point is this, solving the problem will not happen with rigid political lines obscuring alternative views that might very well be great ideas.
Those who quickly dismiss views that differ from their own can only provide half-assed comments.
" I don't want to name my business. It supports critical emergency services."
Then you are clearly life-sustaining. Ask your attorney to seek a waiver so that you don't run into difficulties. I think he has no authority to shut anyone down, but it's best to seek a waiver while the issue is litigated.
9:34, My opposition to Wolf's order has nothing to do with his party. I myself am a Democrat.
I have warned people on both sides to stop the usual partisan rants. If you are unable, I will delete you. Make your pointy without attacking Republicans or Democrats.
I slammed Trump when he underplayed this issue. I am slamming Wolf for overplaying it and instilling fear and panic buying in the public he is supposed to serve. Moreover, as I and others have argued, he has exceeded his authority and is acting unlawfully.
If you think he's acting lawfully, your comments are welcome. But the usual slams at Democrats or Republicans will have a shorter shelf life than toilet paper.
Anonymous said...
American officials did act as quickly as possible despite being bogged down by Impeachment Month.
It's not that they were busy testifying or responding to subpoenas, is it?
Bernie there is a lot of assklowns posting here that are not only experts on the wahun virus they are also experts on what the government can and cannot do at a cost to the nation's survival. Psychiatrists are a viable option and the wolf pack allows them to opperate under the life sustaining decree. Many should just go get a chill pill and cillax. This would not be in there designs to want something and than complain when they get exactly what they want like gluttonous children making there christmas list for santa?
Stop the banter with comical TP article's and Mr hidey ho hating on the beday.
One other consideration is what the neighbor states are doing.
If the person in New Rochelle NY cannot buy their batman cookie jar they will drive to PA to get it.
this increases the spread of Corona.
as to legality the Gov is stretching the law to fit the situation.just as i see no mention of say a asteroid strike yet it would be acceptable for the Gov to have authority.
What happens when the Gov decides to restrict travel within the Commonwealth if needed?
shutting down the highways with a 3 ft snowfall is ok but cannot be done in a pandemic?
Or say route 80 gets to be the only way out of state traffic can cross PA?
Under the pandemic plan all he needs is the Health commissioner to agree.
Try reading the law. The Governor does have the authority to restrict travel or close a highway during a natural disaster. He has no authority under the law to shut down nearly all business. That is just the way it is. He has acted outside the law.
1.24
So then the Gov then decides all businesses can be open but he restricts people into their homes via a curfew.
That is more acceptable?
So a diner can have a waitress show up for a shift when the population is restricted to gather in groups of more than two.
Can the Gov decree a diner can be open but must maintain 10 ft separation?
seems he is still interfering with business.
then the argument is that interference is shutting them down.
Sounds like business rules over public health.
1.36
oops my bad that should be groups cannot be over two people
1:36, You still have not read the law. Read it and stop posting ignorant comments. The governor does have the authority to isolate specific groups of people under very limited circumstances.
4.09
So the Gov considers all gym rats to be a disease vector and isolate them from the gym.
along with personal trainers and support staff.
So by law the gym is open but no one can enter it.
The law does not say how the isolation is to occur or limits the amount of people in it.
When the law is silent on the how that allows the Gov quite some leeway.
so his special group is isolated anywhere but the gym.
And he is following the law.
So the argument is over how he enforces his edict?
The result is the same.
4.09
" under very limited circumstances"
All he needs is the Sec of health to agree.
He needs no other approval under 35P.S. § 2140.301(a),
4.09
" in consultation with the Secretary of Health, may temporarily
isolate or quarantine an individual or groups of individuals through a written
order "
so temporarily could be how long?
30 days, 60 days, one year?
Until a court says so he could do just that
Bernie these assklowns are arguing with you for the sake of argument. Like the Dems do if Trump says the sky is blue they will say it's black and falling just too add there spin.
They should just get out of the basement the world ain't ending Trump didn't say so?
These issues are cyclical. This big issue is almost all venues in EU has similar issues as the U.S. but a bit earlier. That means the world leaders failed to prepare not Donald Trump alone in 3 yrs.of office. What did we learn from the Swine Flu of 1919 ? Well, we learned social distancing and we have these morons in bars and crowded beaches ready causeing of costly events ,and it’s Trumps fault? Now, I would agree he needs to stay off the media. But,I had been on this blog earlier and some character that had his mother support him at about 26 Make statement that says I’m —— military a has been ,horseshit - come shoot it out someday you LOAD, but I was qualified in Haz Mat and BSI and NBC Defense Commissioned Officer with about 2,600 soles I was responsible for NBC (Nuclear Biololical and Chemical ) from the U.S.Govt . This stuff is not new to me. This issue were in ,is the early stages now well before the top of a curve , ( nomagrames) ,later an EMT -B over 20 years . It’s the same stuff. Stay away from relitives in side the house, 6 feet , outside and 10 feet inside ,especially From other people,walk hand upto elbows and face when you have been out of the house. And come back. . This is going up on the graft almost 3xs What is today, predictions are what happens now in EU ,for next five weeks. Tell your kids still living in your basement to cease and desist hanging out before they contaminat your house. Then grandma dies off and no social security check anymore or smokes. Pay Attention.
I don't get to vote in Italy or the UK. I also know what Trump said and didn't do.
7:10 - You are being too vague, perhaps because you prefer not to struggle in explaining yourself. I can easily, with great confidence, THIS.is the Administration that has been charged with winning the war. Repeat, THIS is the Administrative effort that must not be held back by people getting in the way because of what happened less than 4 years ago.
In THIS war, THIS is our team of fighters. Nothing you can say or do will change that.
Anonymous said...
7:10 here. Your arrogance is unwarranted. Perhaps you've heard that there's an election in Nov. See you there, Captain America.
Anon 5:53, English please!
7:54 - Correct! The next election is in November. The China Virus War is now. We need to get this situation over by then.
Wolf is bad news
At least he's trying tom protect us. Tell me what our Pretender in Chief has accomplished.
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