Several state governors, including our own Chicken Little, have paralyzed their state's economies. It's for our own good, they say. Some communities are being ordered to shelter-in-place. That's for our own good, too. Media outlets bray away at the sudden spike in Covid-19 cases, totally oblivious to the reality that this sudden increase is almost certainly because more testing is available now than there was even a week ago. The nation sits paralyzed in their living rooms, guarding stashes of toilet paper and bottled water, waiting for the end. But we are over-reacting and have created a dangerous precedent for anyone who actually cares about individual liberty or our economy. Let me explain why.
Covid-19 is a brand new virus. It only reared its ugly head in December. So little is known about it. The mortality rate - 10 times that of the common flu - is based on known cases. But what about those who had it and never knew it? For all that you or I know, we could have had this disease. It is illogical and, dare I say, unscientific, to draw conclusions based on insufficient information.
Iceland has been doing extensive testing, proportionately more than any other country. As of March 21, the results of 5,571 tests yielded just 48 positive results (0.86%), meaning the prevalence of the virus is modest. Nearly half of those infected had no symptoms. This is corroborated by a smaller study of 565 Japanese, in which about 31% of those who had Covid-19 never knew it. So what the science tells us, and I agree we should give science priority over histrionics, is that this virus only infects a small segment of the population, and a large proportion of those who get it never get sick.
Without question, some people become seriously ill. A few die. It has to be taken seriously. But we are over-reacting and this matter has become sensationalized. Dr. Anthony Fauci, who has been spearheading the national response to this pandemic, told CNN he likes to be accused of over-reacting because that means he's doing it right. But he's failed to consider the medical maxim aegrescit medendo, i.e. the cure just might be worse than the disease.
Bret Stephens, a columnist for The New York Times, put it best: "Sooner or later, people will figure out that it is not sustainable to keep tens of millions of people in lockdown; or use population-wide edicts rather than measures designed to protect the most vulnerable; or expect the federal government to keep a $21 trillion economy afloat; or throw millions of people out of work and ask them to subsist on a $1,200 check."
Can we all return to earth already?
102 comments:
"Can we all return to earth already?"
We should, but our betters won't let us. Gov. Gavin Newsom has instituted draconian restrictions in California. Yet, with a population of 40 million, California has had only 2,200 confirmed cases and only 43 deaths. No one has died in the City of San Francisco, and only 8 have died in all of Los Angeles County (population: 10 million).
You are really off the deep end on this one. You are pissed because your title searching is currently taking a hit. You and the others who pound your fists and bray on about over reacting would be the first to cry if someone you loved died.
Fortunately most people are listening to educated, scientific professionals and not the social media experts who have their own individual axes to grind. Sadly. you are one of them. Again, fortunately you and your ilk are not in charge of anything.
What a sap. ��
Start by not having Trump on TV airing his daily list of grievances, poor poor pitiful me.
1:00, I agree people should listen to both science and logic. There is neither in the mass hysteria that has occurred. The scientific data is very incomplete, yet Governors are imposing draconian measures that hurt everyone, not just me. The cure is worse than the disease.
Sorry but the doctors have said to close much as possible and distance. Money is not their bottom line, life is. They are using science based on facts and logical extrapolation. You and the other social media experts are basing your views on anger. You have a right to your opinion but not your own facts. The only hysteria is form you and the others contradicting science.
Doctors win!!!
Hopefully, Bernie, your message will cut through to those who are guided only by political hatred and selfishness. Millions upon millions throughout this country feel exactly as your entry reflects.
But, other millions will refuse to understand. Most of these attackers are not entirely bad people, just misguided in their values. Some are neighbors to our families.
A massive time of disruption in our lives was delivered to our shores. Once here, it created chaos well beyond what has been seen in many decades, since the 1940s at least. The response to this situation has opened our eyes to the true nature of our present society. It has shined a bright light on what matters to each of us.
Ugliness of mind has been exposed in some who post here. That’s not easy to hide. We cringe at what we read. It’s always been within some who read this Blog, even before this medical crisis. Now, it’s in the spotlight.
NO ONE IS FOOLING ANYBODY. We see better than ever now. The rot of politicians in Congress is impossible to hide. It splashes into our living rooms while we have not much else to do but watch in sadness. THAT blight will be removed slowly with our votes. It must!
I ask readers to look inward. Driving a nation into another Great Depression for political strategy means hardship for ALL.
This nation needs to get back to work !
Listen to that call “WE CAN DO BOTH.”
"NO ONE IS FOOLING ANYBODY."
But fools wish to rule. What exactly is the agenda of you fact deniers? I mean is this the vanguard of the new know nothing party in America? Do you think the Protestant work ethic will scare away the virus? Do you seriously believe science will be determined by your personal beliefs.
I like to think you people are just goofing on everyone with these silly posts.
You can't be serious. If you are, it is sad that our nation has deseeded into such ignorance and simple mindedness.
The only hate is the hatsful selfish comments of some butt hurt business freaks. Out of your comfort zone? Guess what, nature could care less.
Those that have sons and daughters working at local hospitals each and every day, putting their lives on the line to help those with this virus may have a different and more accurate perception than your apartment armchair perspective.
Well said, 4:52.
Bernie also isn't taking into account those numbers he grabbed to support his argument were taken at a time when medical resources weren't overwhelmed and the best treatment available was provided.
The worry of scientists is what will happen when facilities are overwhelmed. They are close to that point now.
My business is open again, today. I'm in a gray area and will not close. If your business pays 100 to make 105, you will not survive very long when whatever you're paying is making 0. Our governor is a cowardly moron, and that freakish guy in a dress who can't pronounce "exponential" and repeats the same answer to every single question, instills no confidence in this state's ability to deal with the crisis they're promoting. Until the governor and county executives temporarily layoff all but essential government employees, who are on a vacation paid by those whom the governor has ordered may not work to pay their taxes, none of this makes any sense. At the same time, Congress seems in no hurry and is playing usual politics with abortion and the environment and diversity. These things have nothing to do with a virus, which indicates they know something we don't and aren't the least bit concerned. We shouldn't be either. Watch what they do vs. what they say, like "expadential."
need to self quarantine the elderly and at risk, keep up good safe practices, let the kids back into school, beef up the hospital capacity and lets get it over with. Everyone is going to get this virus, it is just a matter of time, Many more are dying of the Flue every day. Maybe they should put up a flu graph next to the corona virus graph, and you can pick your panic. Same precautions are necessary for both.
The leftist lemming rally will be short lived. Helluva a try though.
You are right. Keep the nursing homes locked down and advise older and health compromised individuals to continue limited and distant contact. Let everyone else party! Most of the population has been panicked into Looney Tunes. It needs to stop.
I couldn’t agree with you more. The politicians love a “crisis”, and will fabricate one if given the opportunity.
This is truly a sad state of affairs. On one hand we have medical experts warning us about the dangers of COVID19 and on the other hand we have our President telling us something else. Our medical experts are telling us how dangerous this virus is and how to deal with it, and our advisors to the president are giving us just about the same message, and then there's our President contradicting everything they say. We should we take the advice of ten experts in the medical and scientific field over our President. Our President wouldn't lie about something like this would he?
As a Senior, who am I supposed to believe? I want to believe Donald Trump our President but unfortunately he has lied so much in the past that it is difficult to have any confidence in what he says. This is a problem for the medical and scientific professionals. Their job is trying to keep me alive and healthy. Trumps job right now seems to be one of demonstrating that he can handle a crisis. He's failing poorly.
7:39 and others -
If you were one of the few who were able to watch the full 2 hours of yesterday’s update, your fear would be reduced. Unfortunately, many networks cut-away after just the first hour, some immediately going into panic inducing editorials. The PBS feed was on YouTube and presented in its entirety, uninterrupted. I’m sure the second hour can still be found on YouTube. That second hour was very focused and revealing, despite the reporters’ desperate effort to find anything negative to use.
"Were all gonna die". Well now isn't that a revelation? Hopes it happens before Phillies baseball season because I wanna go quick!
Well, the virus has no party affiliation, no family, no smell, no bias, it wants us to stay alive and sneeze, cough, and touch each other so it can survive, and some of us are willing to accommodate it and help it spread..but hey,
It’s a hoax, right, blown out of proportion by media, right,
Well then, some of you, go ahead...make my day
The above comment is precisely the kind of unscientific conclusion I mean.
I'm pro-science. Federally funded scientists agree we need more solar energy to address the immediate crisis.
"But fools wish to rule. What exactly is the agenda of you fact deniers? I mean is this the vanguard of the new know nothing party in America? Do you think the Protestant work ethic will scare away the virus?"
If anyone is a fact denier, it appears to be you. There is a dearth of studies from which one can reach conclusions about this virus, yet you wish to shut down the American economy for an indefinite period. Your basis is hysteria and conjecture, not fact. The limited studies that do exist suggest the impact of this virus is moderate and that as many as half of those who contract it never know it. On the basis of this science, there is no legitimate reason for shutting down the economy. Also, based on your commentary, it appears that part of your reasoning is political and you are assuming that those who think this is over-reaction are right wing. I am anti-Trump and have been highly critical of him in numerous posts here. I believe you are allowing your political views to color your judgment. If you do believe in science and logic, you should conclude we are over-reacting.
"Those that have sons and daughters working at local hospitals each and every day, putting their lives on the line to help those with this virus may have a different and more accurate perception than your apartment armchair perspective."
True, and what I have been told anecdotally is that doctors in ERs are laughing at us.
The media has lead this panic from the start, look at the headlines and the one sided coverage, always worst case scenarios presented. Experts who have and have found encouraging evidence that we may be over reacting to a virus that is likely no more dangerous than the annual flu are nowhere to be found in the mainstream media or the cable news shows. Journalists seem to be demanding Trump use emergency powers to seize control of industries, industries that have already offered to help. Lockdown's are praised when less than one percent of the population is even sick. Does anyone remember when the flu came through in the late fall and early winter, it was bad this year, people got sick and died. We didn't bat an eye to that did we? WHY? Because that happens every year. This virus is a cousin of that flu, and may actually be less lethal. Dig around and one can find many published articles that say exactly that, all written by well respected experts. But you won't find any of them given air time or space in the Times of WaPo. What does this tell us? One more thing, there is a growing intolerance in American for informed disagreement and increasingly scorn is cast on those who dare question the accepted media inspired group think de jour. This intolerance is plain to see in the comments section of this blog. It is anti-intellectual, anti-democratic and counter productive to freedom, liberty, justice, and the hope of good government. Disagreement should be welcomed and engaged respectfully, not answered with besmirchments. Truth is gleaned from open and vigorous disagreement, shouting down those who dare speak a different thought is the action of the ignorant. Thank Bernie for always daring to speak your mind.
"Bernie also isn't taking into account those numbers he grabbed to support his argument were taken at a time when medical resources weren't overwhelmed and the best treatment available was provided."
I didn't "grab" anything. Iceland's study is ongoing and is based on up-to-date information. You apparently are unable to face reality when it stares at you because it fails to fit your political agenda or bc you are a victim of mass hysteria.
"Sorry but the doctors have said to close much as possible and distance. Money is not their bottom line, life is. They are using science based on facts and logical extrapolation. You and the other social media experts are basing your views on anger. You have a right to your opinion but not your own facts. The only hysteria is form you and the others contradicting science."
So what you are saying is to just accept what these medical professionals say carte blanche, without question. This is unscientific and illogical. Years ago, doctors believed in bloodletting and people listened. Doctors are making recommendations with next to no knowledge about this virus or the danger it imposes. They are using spotty data to shut down the economy for weeks and perhaps months. This is both unscientific and illogical.
I believe you all need to take a step back, stop buying so much toilet paper, take a deep breath and start using your head.
I predict a full, booming economic recovery starting January 2021 when republicans overwhelmingly take full control of the House, Senate, and White House, destroying the creeping (and creepy) socialism which has disrupted the path to Make America Great Again.
And yet, it is a fact that the Italian hospitals were overwhelmed with cases for letting things go on as usual.
Yep, business as usual.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Italy_coronavirus_lockdown
some doctors are like mothers, the perfect would be that the children would stay home, not engage in any dangerous activities, not touch dirt or engage in any work, we would all be safe, but for what?
Bernie, I’m 64 years old and I want to be able to congratulate you and say, “you’re right, we over reacted.”
The vast majority of deaths in Italy were to people over the age of 80. People who had at least 3 serious, pre-existing medical conditions leading to compromised immune systems. By all means, protect those individuals as we are now. It’s then for everyone in better shape, to change our personal behaviors in support.
So, you're believe it is wise to cite studies in Iceland and ignore the actual experiences occurring in Italy right now? People dying there unnecessarily (death rate there is far higher than the average) because the hospitals are ill equipped to deal with that many people getting sick all at once. The same thing can happen here if we don't flatten the curve. Especially in congested (no pun intended) cities.
9.39 the result of a national health care system.
9:39,I am very concerned about what is happening in Italy but am confused bc the problem appears to be isolated to the southern part. I do not know why. I do not know why it is not widespread in the north. We know too little about this virus to justify some of the sweeping generalizations made or the draconian measures taken. Under these circumstances, it is wise to follow the admonition of Virgil and be careful about making the cure worse than the disease.
Sad that Italian doctors report no ventilators for seniors over 80.
March 24, 2020 at 8:49 AM Bernie O'Hare said...
True, and what I have been told anecdotally is that doctors in ERs are laughing at us.
BULLSHIT. My step daughter works in the ICU and she is scared to death with two kids at home she's had a couple of virus patients. Her other half is a Dr. who is a oncologist . He is only seeing patients in person who are on chemo. The rest of his day is spent on the phone and his group has a couple Dr.s might already infected (haven't got test results yet). His group is rotating every other week in office then making calls from home the other. My son is an EMT. He's made three transports to Philly from Allentown with suspected CD-19 patients who need more specialized care. His wife works in the ER.. believe me she is not laughing!
I'm not going to say where these work, but I will say this. Not every case is being reported I suspect. Perhaps because hospitals don't want people to panic and avoid coming in out of fear.
"...am confused bc the problem appears to be isolated to the southern part. I do not know why. I do not know why it is not widespread in the north."
Other way around.
Speculative, but perhaps some emerging clues.
https://www.technologyreview.com/s/615381/coronavirus-spread-could-slow-with-warmer-weather/
10:47, You call bullshit and then just cite an anecdote. So we're even. The truth is we don't know that ERs are being overwhelmed with Covid-19. A couple of virus patients seems to support the view this is not overwhelming. I am no ostrich burying my head in the sand. I agree that Trump was guilty of downplaying this virus. It is a pandemic and we need to be careful. But we are over-reacting and sensationalizing it.
I have warned many times that I am deleting all comments that make sweeping generalizations about either party.
Re: 9:39. I'm not sure what sweeping generalizations were made in that post. The dilemma in China and Italy (which has a GOOD health care system regardless of it being nationalized) is that WAY more people are requiring hospitalization than ANY health care system can handle in a short period of time. The advice of doctors in China and Italy are to take action NOW if you want to avoid the same thing. I fail to see why ignoring that advice is a good thing even if the economy has to suffer for awhile.
I agree with Trump...so some people die..I need to get PAAAAID.
And as far as the stimulus bill: so what if it gives Trump a slush fund of billions to distribute as he sees fit, I's sure he will do the right thing as always. Remember, only He can save us.
10:47 -
Here’s your solution. Log-in here as Anonymous. Next, name the specific facilities that lack protective equipment of any type. The responsible thing to do is PUT OUT A CALL THAT CAN BE ANSWERED.
My suggestion applies to all others with “knowledge” of a real need. Lay it out! People will drive to your location with needed items. Responsible citizenship is still alive in America.
Countries are different. Three-family, three-story dwellings are the norm in many Italian towns. I've read that may one of their particular culprits. But I may have read it on Facebook, where I saw that mustard poultices and a combination of herbs inserted in a long, beak-like mask worn over the nose and mouth are surefire preventatives. Be back after my blood-letting. The leeches won't wait.
Fair post. We should be sensible. But I think we've gone too far. 16,000 have died, globally. We accept 34,000 US traffic deaths per year that are completely preventable with shelter in place restrictions. Yet, shelter in place would be a ridiculous solution that would grind the economy to a halt - all to save 34,000 in a country of 330 million. So we accept those deaths, that are completely preventable. And nobody raises an eyebrow. Perspective is needed.
From wackipedia:
Hosp. beds/1000
Italy - 3.18
US- 2.77
Occupancy
Italy - 78.9%
US - 64%
Available beds/1000 (or if you're an MBA, "excess")
Italy - 0.67
US - 0.99
ICU & CCB/100,000
Italy - 12.5
US - 34.7
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_hospital_beds
Of course, regional issues not captured in these national numbers.
The frustrating thing for me is watching this bailout packet that both sides are putting together.
On the right, you have bailouts for the airlines, who just reduced their own liquidity by buying back shares of their own stock.
On the left, you have earmarks for things like the kennedy center, $15 an hour wage minimums etc.
It would be nice if both sides could get the funding to the hospitals, the small businesses and the workers and not have to score points with their constituents on increased pork
Once again, if anyone (truthfully) knows of a Lehigh Valley Hospital or Emergency Care facility that has a shortage of necessary staff protection that is putting even one patient at greater risk, PLEASE make that location known.
Added to 12:21 post - Health care workers AND patients need protection supplies/equipment. It’s all out there to be shared, but you have to say WHERE it’s needed.
Tom Hanks "Two weeks after our first symptoms and we feel better," he wrote in a tweet posted on Sunday 3-23-2020.
That puts his first symptoms of the Election Virus on 3-10-2020, while in Australia, where he and his wife somehow received a test and had the results for a presser later that evening....considering the availability of tests at that time and the rapid results doesn't that seem like strangely competent healthcare and terrible PR announcing you have a deadly virus?
End this nonsense.
9:03 - I hope you will be sending your socialist check back to the treasury.
I just got back from the clinic with my child, who is expressing the big three symptoms. Given our travel history we are high risk. So, unless he was in direct contact with a known positive case, he cannot be tested. So what's the point? if you cannot confirm or deny cases, why lock down the population? Sure wish the kid could dribble a basketball. . .
1:03 PM
How would a test change what you are doing?
If it came back positive, you still can't put him into a hospital. Hospitalization is based on condition, not test result. That's actually CDC and State Health Bureau recommendation (D and R states.)
If it came back negative, would you just let him run through a grocery store and tell people "Hey, his mother had him tested"?
We're all being told to behave as if we have the virus. If we have symptoms, we stay at home regardless of any test. If we don't have symptoms we practice social distancing.
A test at this point is only for statistics, and maybe to guide treatment in the event of a hospitalization.
As far as 9:03 returning his check, he's probably as likely to do that as people who argued for higher taxes were likely to check the box on their tax return that said "Here, take more of my money to reduce the deficit" when that was an option.
Protect your population first. The economy can be fixed later. Keep people at home or risk Spain’s situation where the army is picking up the dead. Even Britain figured it out.
Protect the population first? Then why not ban cars, which kill 30K+ each year in PA? Every one of those deaths is 100% preventable. We make trade-offs every day. Have an orphan disease? Sorry. We direct our efforts at afflictions that kill more citizens. It's a cost-benefit calculation. We do this every day with human lives.
Two points of view concerning the lock down, Government workers, if off for 2 years will be paid in full by the same private sector taxpayers who if in the private sector may be set back for years. government workers will be happy as clams if they keep it shut down indefinitely.
CDC has a death rate of 2.4 percent as of March 18th.
2 million 64 and up in PA.
so if all olds get Corona you have 48 thousand dead.
So say 10 percent olds get Corona then you have four thousand eight hundred dead.
So how many dead is acceptable so people can go to the gym?
or the mall?
For those who want to open everything up--How many dead are you willing to have?
BTW how does people staying home kill more people than the disease?
Being home just kills you? How does that happen?
2.30
"Then why not ban cars, which kill 30K+ each year in PA?"
Sorry the numbers are much lower.
try
https://www.penndot.gov/TravelInPA/Safety/Pages/Crash-Facts-and-Statistics.aspx
"In 2018, Pennsylvania saw the third lowest number if traffic fatalities on record – 1190."
And Pa demands that you wear a seat belt along with plenty of restrictions.
Gee staying home is such a crushing burden?
You can still earn a living while driving with a seat belt.
Hi Bernie,
It seems the norm to have knee-jerk reactions to everything that happens these days. I hope we are overreacting and I keep thinking that the number of flu deaths is worse, but I guess because this is a "novel" disease, there are more questions than answers, thus the hysteria. Social media's impact -- people are freaking out -- certainly has a role in everyone's (over)reaction.
The long-term impact (psychological and financial) this event has on the country will be far worse than the disease. Add to that the overreaching by government leaders who want to create a police state and we are in some serious trouble because nobody seems to be challenging the politicos.
Izzie
4:29 p.m.
I am tiring of the "how many deaths is acceptable" argument. Death is an unavoidable part of life, but life must continue and not halt for weeks on end. Isn't it important to try to build up immunity? If I have an underlying condition, I'm going to police myself and not wait for the government to step in -- it's called common sense. During flu season, I am more cautious around people than I otherwise may be. As a people, we must be responsible, rather than be lemmings following leaders who are reactive and stoking the flames of the fire. (Cuomo, for instance, is loving his daily performance where he throws out "possible" scenarios, rather than relying on iron clad facts.)
To all the safety-firsters: How safe is safe enough?
When do the restrictions come off? Flat curve? (what if the curve flattens at 1000/day?) Falling curving? (Falling below what? 100/day? 10/day? 1/day? 1/week?)
I guess if your answer is anything more than zero, you're all a bunch of cruel heartless bastards that want to kill people too.
11.59
" We accept 34,000 US traffic deaths per year that are completely preventable with shelter in place restrictions."
And you have 221 million drivers in the US.
or a fatality rate of approx .025 percent.
current death rate is 2.4 percent.
Big difference in death rate.
5.00
" How safe is safe enough?"
If staying home saves lives why not pay that price?
Getting a cookie jar at the mall is more important?
Again how many people are you willing to kill?
President: fill the churches by Easter ...open up business
Doctors: Scrambling to fill needs for masks,gloves while
Cases pass 50,0000 and 660 dead
COVID 19: I’m just gettin started
4.59
" During flu season, I am more cautious around people than I otherwise may be. As a people, we must be responsible, rather than be lemmings following leaders who are reactive and stoking the flames of the fire."
So under that logic when the World Trade Center fell Americans should have just accepted that more people die in car crashes.
You should be careful if you work in NYC.
In the big picture those deaths made no difference?
There is a war the enemy is a virus
1:40
A positive test result would change everything. The point was, what good is the data if your only looking at a fraction of the available data. If we cannot test everyone who is symptomatic, what good is the data? Never would a company doing market research make a decision on such a small sample size. Your logic is flawed. You don't know what you don't know.
Vote gnat hyman for Allentown mayor.
21milion cell phones canceled or the subscribers just died in Wuhun China from the Wuhun virus?
"How many people are you willing to kill?"
Actually, that's what I asked you. Is your answer "lock down until zero?"
5:27 p.m.
That is convoluted logic. The country suffered when the WTC (and the Pentagon and PA crash) attacks occurred. We did, however, move on from those events and the HYSTERIA they caused. The immediate aftermath included attacks on Muslims, the overrun 911 systems because people looked sketchy or there was a bag nearby, the influx of NJ/NY transplants to the Lehigh Valley, etc. Hysteria never accomplishes anything but making rational people irrational. Covid-19 is another example of such hysteria. Thousands die in cars, thousands die from the flu, yet life continues.
6.13
my answer is until zero.
Your answer for how many you will kill to go say to the gym?
6.23
Asking folks to stay at home is too much of a sacrifice for what will be a higher death total?
"my answer is until zero"
How are things in dreamland?
And I'm not talking about going to the gym. I'm talking about earning a living.
How many times does that have to be said? Maybe logic doesn't penetrate into dreamland?
6.23
The country moved on from the war on terror after one week?
everyone just said life goes on?
Guess everyone said "well more people die in car wrecks so no big deal?
i must have missed that memo
the virus is the enemy and America is at war
6.41
still did not answer how many can die for your purposes.
His answer would be everybody as long as he gets a paycheck.
6:38 -
ASKING people to stay home is one thing. When a government REQUIRES you to do something against your will is a VERY DIFFERENT discussion. We need a line of demarcation that means something, like a Constitution.
Power tends to grow beyond its original purpose.
Like a nation state prohibiting more than one child per family. Or, at the extreme, like “You MUST drink this Lysol because it’s good at cleaning things.” How about, no one over the age of 70 will receive medical care because it’s just not worth it. Of course, we’re not there yet, but it’s been discussed by powerful people.
"His answer would be everybody as long as he gets a paycheck."
Let me guess, you're still getting paid, on welfare, or have a pension/social security.
Lots of luck with any of those if we "wait until zero".
6.55
" When a government REQUIRES you to do something against your will is a VERY DIFFERENT discussion."
then why does the government say i will suffer if i drive drunk?
After all i never had a problem so doing that is just wrong.
why should i stop at a stop sign?
no one is there so i can do what i want.
When you take the benefit of society it comes with a cost.
7.00
"Let me guess, you're still getting paid, on welfare, or have a pension/social security|
Nope shut down like a lot of people.
Sometimes there is a cost to being a member of society.
How does that go " take one for the team"
Driving is a PRIVILEGE, not a RIGHT. Generally, I believe a person stops at a traffic light because they believe they will get HURT if they do not obey. They agree with this type loss of personal freedom.
Try to go door-to-door and take away personal weapons like guns. One would think that is good for society, but an overwhelming amount of men, particularly, will give their own life to resist the ability to defend themself and their family from harm.
Most Americans, like me, think the nation can remain more open than it is now, by FOCUSING limits according to how acute the problem, NOT ‘ locking -up’ every citizen simply because some political hack says so. If we truly believe we will be hurt by going outside our homes, we will comply without being told. Humans, unlike animals, have the ability to REASON. Although some, like those idiots who licked toilet seats in youthful defiance, and now have Coronavirus. Their reasoning was not so hot.
"Nope, shut down like a lot of people."
Nice to have money in the bank so you can cast moral judgement on others.
7:00 - I have made VERY sure I would be prepared for something like this, and am complying. Don’t assume things about someone you don’t even know. By the way, those who have not prepared for their own welfare under such circumstances, in time, can become a threat to others when pushed too far.
7.33
When did i pass any moral judgement on anyone?
I merely wonder why some folks are willing to let others die when they could help with stopping a pandemic
Oh, look. Governor Wolf just changed his Edict to designate Gun Shops as a Life-Sustaining business. Why, fellow governors were being sued for not upholding our Constitutional Rights.
7.55
Well you should thank him.
The PA top court said he could close gun shops and even the lawsuit by the gun group admitted he had the power to do so
8:08 - THANK him? No,
I congratulate him.
Being able to fight this virus and win is a genetic advantage like intelligence.
Do we all have to stay at home and act stupid so we can all live equal.
How did isolation workout for the Native Americans?
8.36
"How did isolation workout for the Native Americans?"
They should have practiced it.
Cortez would have lost without smallpox as a weapon.
"When did i pass any moral judgement on anyone?
I merely wonder why some folks are willing to let others die when they could help with stopping a pandemic"
"I never claimed I was better than anyone else. I merely wondered why everyone else was not as good as I am."
Smallpox used Cortez as a weapon on a community in isolation.
8.57
""I never claimed I was better than anyone else. I merely wondered why everyone else was not as good as I am."
not a question of good or bad.
question of responsibility.
Does an individual who benefits from the society he/she lives in owe that society anything for that benefit?
some people expect the benefits of society without having any responsibility to help that society when needed
"For those who want to open everything up--How many dead are you willing to have?
un soupçon de
Speaking of French:
At the market two Frenchman were fighting over the last baguette...both lost.
March 24, 2020 at 9:51 PM
Are you suggesting we all benefit equally from society and all owe in the same measure?
It sounds like your saying:
From all according to their ability to all according to their need. Is this what your saying?
Because the testing was screwed up by The Orange One, we don't have the data we need. The most reliable data are the deaths, which are easy enough to count. And are they going up, or down?
There's your sign.
Grow up people! It is not all about you!!!
12:28 - please investigate the actual reason why the testing kits and other essential items were brought to minimum levels. One glaring example has been outed in nearby New York City. I’ll give you a head start, the conditions for this problem we’re set in place even before this Administration took over. It has to do with budgeting decisions and heavy-handed regulations placed on manufacturers. Not a conspiracy to mention these possibilities.
10.08
" their ability to all according to their need. Is this what your saying?
not at all .
try"ask not what your Country can do for you--ask what you can do for your Country"
"What is the acceptable curve, zero?"
Having watched the news I believe the line they show as dangerous is hospital capacity. Once that is exceeded more deaths occur.
Grow up and tale some social responsibility. Your constant whining is getting old.
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