Portland's Masonic Lodge celebrated its 150th birthday yesterday. Festivities included a dinner, dedication of a new slate sign and an Eagle Scout project. The Pocono Record claimed, "Everyone is invited to attend."Everyone except Ron Angle.
Councilman Ron Angle, represents Northampton County's slate belt district, and decided to attend this public event. He was actually personally invited by some masons. He arrived armed with a plaque, commending this fraternal group, although I frankly don't know what exactly it has done.
While standing in the parking lot and speaking to Portland Mayor Kay Bucci, Angle was approached by "Worshipful Master" Larry Bruen.
"I wish you'd reconsider attending tonight's dinner, Ron."
"Are you telling me I can't go in?"
"I didn't say that. I'm just asking you to reconsider."
Also standing in the parking lot was Pennsylvania's very own Grand Master, Ronald August. He agreed to go in and sort out the problem. After going inside for a time, somber and apologetic faces emerged. Angle was told he was unwelcome.
"Why not?"
"Charles Dertinger claims you don't like masons."
Now let me tell you why Angle was really banished from this public event. Council member Charles Dertinger, himself a long-time mason in Portland, was there with his own commemorative plaque. And Tony Branco was his guest. You see, Tony is running for election to an at large seat on Northampton County Council. And since no one knows Tony outside of Hellertown, Charles is trying to get poor Tony a few votes.
But the last person he wanted to see was Ron Angle, who's also running for reelection. He didn't mind shaking a few hands to help out Tony, but didn't want Angle to benefit in any way. He was afraid Angle, as he usually does, would steal their thunder. So he duped this supposedly nonpolitical group to prevent Angle from attending an event that was supposed to be open to all.
Charles' brother, Sean C. Dertinger, is actually the secretary of his esteemed organization, which refuses to admit women as members.
Why would anyone, on council or not, want to congratulate a group that excludes women as members? Why would Masons, in the presence of their Grand Dragon or whatever they call him, allow themselves to be used by Dertinger for partisan politics? Why would it ask one member of county council to leave a celebration supposedly open to all? Why would it permit two other council members to remain?
57 comments:
"No Homers Club." Remember that one?
It's a shame that they turned a night of honoring accomplishment into attempts for political gain.
I wrote an article about two scouts achieving their Eagle rank, and I hate to see their efforts go shadowed by anything! They do a lot of good for communities around the country!
Oh, yeah, sucks for Angle, too.
Boo, Charlie, Boo!
Isn't this group a big anti-Catholic organization. That was my understanding. Frankly, who cares. This is like a college fraternity for old-farts. Grow up get a life.
I've always suspected the mystery surrounding Masons has something to do with secret handshakes, spanking and towel-snapping.
Ron should take comfort in Groucho Marx: I don't care to belong to a club that accepts people like me as members.
Wow Bernie.
First you call out the Lehigh Valley Partnership.
Now you call out the Masons!
You have big brass ones!
These guys can make things happen. How in hell did they let Dertinger join?
RON ANGLE REIMBURSEMENT & PAY CONTROVERSES
In four instances Angle was forced to re-pay money he owed to the Upper Mount Bethel Board of Supervisors.
The board set a mileage ceiling after residents complained about his mileage reimbursement requests.
In 1986 the board voted to require Angle to return $225 from a pay-raise to which he was not entitled.
In 1988 the township solicitor ruled Angle must return $1,225 from a payraise to which he is not entitled
In 1990 a judge ruled that Angle must repay $6,014 in overtime pay and reimbursements to which he was not entitled.
In 1993 a judge orders AngIe to pay $1,500 to the board for health
insurance he's obtained though the county.
Anon 9:24,
Rich guys always argue over nickels and dimes. That's why they're rich. Is your point that Angle was excluded because he's a person of bad character?
Please let me know if this is about character.
Anon 2:03,
Anti-catholicism and the freemasons have historically gone hand in hand. Although some catholics are masons themselves, the catholic church still technically prohibits participation in this group.
The Donald Snyder Incident
Of all the examples of Ron Angle’s revolting behavior, none is mare disturbing than the Donald Snyder incident. Though this is an old story, it still has the power to shock and it is also a good example of Angle's private business practices.
We'll start at the beginning of the affair, as described in the Pocano Record (“Angle facing lawsuit over elderly man's assets," May 27, 19833)
"The story began on September 23, 1981 when Bangor police investigated a
complaint that Angle's former tenant, Donald Snyder Sr., had been bolted inside his
apartment at 27 Messinger Street and was banging to get out. Breaking down the door, police found a frightened old man living in a nearly empty apartment, fouled with human excrement.
Mayor Duane Miller, who was functioning as chief of police at the time of the investigation, arrived 15 minutes after police broke into the apartment and described the conditions.
Snyder had fouled his trousers, but appeared to have worn them in that state for at least a day. The toilet was clogged and almost black, and looked as if it had not
functioned for a few days. Tastykake wrappers were piled two feet high in the closet, and Snyder had battered the door knob with a chair attempting to get out. Eye hooks had been installed outside the door to keep it closed, Miller said."
Who was responsible?
Angle had sold the building to James Margetis in 1980, so at first glance Snyder's living conditions didn't seem to be his concern. But Snyder's family and Margetis trusted Snyder was under Angle's care and that he appeared to be looking after him. "Angle came up here to report on him,' said Herman Snyder, DonaId's brother, adding that Angle had even claimed that he took him home for Christmas.
Margetis said he had not paid attention to the matter because Angle paid the $120 monthly rent with his own checks and had assumed responsibility for Snyder.
It was Angle who locked the old man in his apartment, Margetis said, because the nearly blind Snyder had wandered the streets endangering himself. (Pocono Record, May 227, 1 993).
Margetis claimed that Angle took care of Snyder's physical needs, though police found no evidence that was true. Angle did handle Snyder's finances however. Snyder was not destitute. He had $1 5,000 in certificates of deposit, a monthly pension of approximately $90, and a small monthly social security stipend.
Later, when Snyder was declared mentally incompetent and sent to a nursing
home in 1982, oficials began to wonder why his money hadn't done him more good.
The county began an investigation. Karl Longenbach was appointed as Snyder's guardian. In a petition filed for Snyder, he asked for an accounting by Angle of Snyder's money.
Claims Snyder gave him the money
Angle denied that he had any legal responsibility to account for his relationship with Snyder, but did say he had become a co-signer of Snyder's certificates of deposit.
On March 12, 198 I , Snyder (a year from official being dedared incompetent) cashed in the certificates and turned over ALL of the money to Angle. Angle claimed $6,500 was to repay a debt and that $8,500 was a "gift." Angle also said that he had filed no gift tax return for the money. Angle denied Snyder was mentally infirm at the time. (Pocono Record, May 27, 1983).
It more than stretches believability that Mr. Snyder gave almost all of his assets to Angle. He eventually repaid $1 0,000 to settle a lawsuit filed against him by Snyder's court-appointed guardian. (Old enemies gang up on Ron the Hun, The Morning Call, May 1 5, 1997)
District Attorney Donald Corriere looked into the case but no criminal charges were filed.
It would be interesting to hear Angle's side, as no charges were filed by an unfriendly DA. I get the feeling there's less to this, not more.
Bernie... I have been forced out of retirement. Tastykake wrappers piled 2 feet high? Surely you jest. 1981, 82, 83? Lets talk about what Angle did in the Civil war while we are at it.
I was at the event last night, and while I was not involved in the discussion about Ron Angle’s attendance, there are a couple of points I’d like to make.
-The event was open to all, and I have no doubt that he was invited to come. He may be friends with some Masons personally, but his attendance would have been disingenuous,because it’s true that he's hostile to the organization. (If you’ve got any pull with Sunny 1100, Bernie, check Angle’s master tapes from March of 2006. During a discussion about Lisa Boscola's job performance, a caller mentioned he was a Mason, and Ron said “Oh, you mean the Ku Klux Klan.” )
-Tony Branco was pressing flesh not only as a guest of Chuck D, but also as a member of Bethlehem Lodge, and co-signer of a county commemorative proclamation. Ron didn’t sign it, and he probably wasn’t delivering any sort of formal recognition on behalf of anyone else, as Reps. Grucela and Dally and Sen. Boscola sent staff members, and Kay Bucci attended personally. (I'm curious to know what his plaque actually said, though.)
- The fact that Sean Dertinger is the Lodge Secretary had nothing to do with Ron's exclusion and is completely irrelevant to the post.
-Masons don’t admit women because it’s a fraternity. The associated sorority is called Order of the Eastern Star.
With all that said, I like Ron, and he still has my vote in the county and as far beyond as he wants to go. He’s a grouchy ol’ cuss, but a competent and effective representative of the Slate Belt, and was an entertaining radio host.
It was plain to most of those in attendance last night that he was only there to get a rise of Dertinger.
AJ cordi said "I wrote an article about two scouts achieving their Eagle rank, and I hate to see their efforts go shadowed by anything! They do a lot of good for communities around the country!
Oh, yeah, sucks for Angle, too. ""
I remember an Eagle Scout restored the Indian Tower in Nazareth some time ago only to have it trashed by thugs and vandals. If these same thugs knew how dificult it is to get to the rank of Eagle Scout they would have gone up there and helped out.... unless of coarse, they are just pure plain thugs.
oculi said.." his attendance would have been disingenuous,because it’s true that he's hostile to the organization. (If you’ve got any pull with Sunny 1100, Bernie, check Angle’s master tapes from March of 2006. During a discussion about Lisa Boscola's job performance, a caller mentioned he was a Mason, and Ron said “Oh, you mean the Ku Klux Klan.”"" I asked a close friend, who is a Mason, what they do at a meeting. He replied to me quote.." I could Tell you but I would have to kill you " so make up your own mind.
Oculi,
1) Regardless whether Angle's intentions were disingenuous, the event was supposed to be open to all. Moreover, a flippant remark during a talk radio show should not be taken that seriously. Having said that, your group has only recently begun to admit black members.
2) Angle's signature does not appear on that proclamation because, quite simply, he was never asked to sign it. He would certainly have done so.
3) Angle was not only told he was unwelcome, he insisted on being told in writing he was unwelcome.
4) I believe Rep Grucela and Sen Boscola are both practicing Catholics. Their religion condemns your group for theological reasons. Historically, your group has been associated with nearly every anti-Catholic movement that exists. But they did not receive the treatment your group visitd upon Angle, who showed in person with his own plaque.
5) Sean and Charles Dertinger have a lot to do with Angle's exclusion last night. Dertinger broke the rules of your organization, which is supposed to prohibit politics in lodge halls. Your group excluded him from he's seeking reelection, yet you allowed Branco to participate.
6) The simple fact is that women are denied membership in your group. Until recently, blacks were also denied membership.
7) You may not be aware of this, but the Ku Klux Klan did, in fact, originate with the freemasons.
Anon 12:39,
As you can see, the smear campaign against Angle has started. John Maher should be ashamed.
Bernie
I would like to point out that while the Masons do have a history of being anti-Catholic, a lot of that has pretty much gone by the wayside and I say this as a convert to the Catholic religion and a member of the Knights of Columbus. I would also point out that the Masons are also Shriners and we all know the excellent work that they do.
When it comes to women belonging to organizations, I personally see nothing wrong with one sex excluding the other from membership. I also think that such organizations do themselves a disservice because of a such a policy but as long as no harm is being done what difference does it make. Ladies claimed that such a policy led to the "good old boys" club. Do they really belive that the forced integration of a club will change that. The whole thing is really silly.
As to the KKK let us not forget that one of the stalwarts of the Senate is none other then Robert Byrd from West Virginia. There is a man who needs to be removed from office but undoubtedly will pass at the podium.
-"""Masons don’t admit women because it’s a fraternity. The associated sorority is called Order of the Eastern Star. """""
Ok, seperate but equal...Geez where have we heard that before ;)
Chris,
Masons do a lot of good in this world, and I'd agree many members are very sincere folks without a prejudiced bone in their body. But I tend to distrust the motives of groups shrouded in secrecy, whether it is a Masonic lodge or a public body.
Insofar as its male exclusivity is concerned, I think it's wrong. it reminds me of those "No Girls Allowed" clubs we formed as kids.
Its decision to exclude Angle, after inviting the public, only reinforces my belief that this group's priorities are out of whack.
Monsignor Bernie. I said that I was there, not that I was a Mason. But anyway,
1. Putting the language used in their comments aside, BTNP throws insults and you crusade. Ron throws insults, and it’s“flippant”. NIce try.
2. I have no doubt Angle would have signed it if asked. He seems like the kind of fella who likes to get his name on everything he can.
3. I stated in the first sentence of my post that I was not a part of the discussions, only an observer.
4. I know Rep. Grucela is Catholic. We go to the same church. I’m quite aware history of the Roman Catholic Church and Freemasonry. Starting about the time Pope Clement issued the Papal Bull excommunicating all Catholic Freemasons.
And Angle “showed in person with his own plaque.”?!? Is he so important now that he gets to go around and bestow honors in his own name?
5. The rules of Masonry prohibit politics in lodge halls, that is true. This scuffle took place about six feet from the dumpster in the parking lot of the Portland Fire Hall. Not exactly hallowed ground.
6. Yes, that is quite a simple fact. Women are also prohibited from other fraternities. That’s why they’re called FRATERNITIES.
Since you had to play the race card twice, it is true that “blacks were also denied membership”, in “Blue Lodges.” Except for a black Mason about a hundred years ago, who started a branch of Masonry called “Prince Hall Masonry”,which still denies membership to white folks.
7. There’s a big difference between the KKK “originate(ing) with the freemasons” and the KKK being formed by individuals who were freemasons.
Didn't anyone ever teach you that a few bad apples don't spoil the whole bunch?
Oculi says.".6. Yes, that is quite a simple fact. Women are also prohibited from other fraternities. That’s why they’re called FRATERNITIES"" sure, thats in college where the women have to sleep and live in the same building.
Why would Ron Angle want to get within 100 miles of a group he previously called the KKK? He's undeserving of the back up you're giving him, Bernie. Freedom of association cannot take place without freedom of disassociation. I'm glad I live in a country that permits the right of private groups to exclude. I'm sharp enough to judge these groups accordingly and associate - or not - with them. It's how I've determined that Freemasons are mostly silly, secretive assholes. But I defend their right to be.
Oculi,
Monsignor Bernie? That's actually a demotion. People usually call me Pope Bernie.
Let me start things off by saying thanks for your comments and argument.
Comparison with BTNP. Now here's what I find interesting. BTNP, by nearly all accounts, made remarks that were blatantly sexist and misogynistic. You dismiss them as "insults" and imply that I do the same thing. That's simply untrue. Incidentally, I've never referred to myself as a crusader. And although I use salty language at times, I don't criticize people personally, as BTNP did. And I get very upset when people make remarks that are sexist, racist or that disparage religions. Your comparison to BTNP is a tad unfair. Long before that incident was reported in the MSM, I took him and some others to task over sexist remarks. Am I an idiot? Yes, But I don't attack people personally.
Ron's anti-masonic tendencies, if they exist, are no basis for his exclusion. You conclude Ron is anti-Masonic based on one flippant remark in a two hour radio show conducted four days per week over three years. That's a real stretch, dude. If you had more than that, I might buy into what you're saying. You don't. But even if Ron were anti-Masonic, this event was open to all members of the public and was heralded that way in all local papers. The invitation went to everyone not just fans of the freemasons.
Dueling plaques Ron is no more important than any other member of council. You're right. Angle had one plaque that he and exec John Stoffa had signed. I saw it yesterday afternoon. he was very proud of it. Dertinger had another. I am told that one was signed by Dertinger and Branco. Both plaques are just window dressing, complete bullshit. You correctly note that about Ron, but the same criticism is true of the one from Dertinger. Maybe his was bigger. Both they both carried the same weight -- none.
Masons promote sexism I understand that masons are a fraternity. But just because a group is called a fraternity or a sorority does not mean it is not sexist. Any group that excludes a sex is necessarily sexist. That's just the way it is. The Pomfert Club and Bethlehem Club both excluded women for many years. They were sexist. I refused to pledge a college frat for that reason. Perhaps my views are a bit more extreme than most, but I don't like groups that refuse memberships to people based on their sex.
Masons have a history of anti-Catholicism in the slate belt In addition to being sexist, Masons long discriminated against Italians and Catholics in the slate belt. About 40 years ago, I'm told the only way you could get a job with Met Ed up in the slate belt was by being a mason. The Knights of Columbus filed a complaint, and Met Ed was forced to open its doors up to Italians and Catholics. In fact, I'm going to try to get some details on that story for a future post.
Freemasons' exclusion of Angle was political You correctly observe that much of the discussion that resulted in Angle's ouster, occurred in a parking lot. And since that is not a Masonic Hall, you conclude this political activity is therefore OK. Well, I don't know Masonic rules as well as I know nonprofit rules. I spent some time last night trying to determine if this group is a tax exempt 501(c)(3) organization. If it is, it violated IRS rules.
Freemasons and the KKK The KKK (and Knights of Labor) were formed immediately after the Civil War by Confederates who just happened to be masons. You're right. That doesn't mean too much. But when it was formed again in 1915, the founders were once again a group of masons.
The original founder, Nathan Bedford Forrest, was a freemason. When the KKK was revived in the early 1900s, the man responsible was Albert Pike. he led the KKK and simultaneously was a freemason who just happened to have the rank of Sovereign Grand Commander of the Scottish Rite, Southern Jurisdiction.
Although the KKK was never part of the masons, it is definitely safe to call it a spin off. Like the masons, the KKK also has elaborate secret rituals.
Playing the race card When I mention that the KKK is a spin off of the freemasons, or that blacks were denied membership, you tell me I'm playing the race card.
When a secretive group has a history of racism, it's something to be considered very seriously. There are still lodges that exclude blacks (or whites). Very recently, the Governor of Alabama was chastised for belonging to a Masonic lodge that excludes blacks.
alexis de tocqueville,
I don't dispute a private club's rights to do whatever it wants. I also don't dispute Ron's rights to attend a function that is advertised as being open to everyone. Also, if this group is claiming tax exempt status (and I don't know that), its political exclusion of Angle violated IRS guidelines.
6th grade USA:
"Yer bad; you said I'm bad."
"You are bad, what you done to me back in first grade."
"I'm all better than than them other guys."
"You is fatter than Britney."
"You suck."
yada, yada, ya'vole
Gore-acle says:
College fraternities and sororities sexist? I think that definitely qualifies as extreme. I mean look, both are offered to students, so there is no exlusionary action really going on. If you want to pledge, go pledge the one you belong in. Really simple.
As for this incident, are we really talking about this? Allentown had it's 14th murder or something this year, Bethlehem is in the single most critical redevelopment in city history, and Easton is about to elect a crucial mayor, not to mention the state and national issues we can argue about. Do the normal CD-RA fights really need recognition?
Gore-acle,
Love the name, dude.
I concede my view regarding frats and sororities is a bit outside the norm. But that's how I feel.
And RA-CD bickering is usually very funny. But in this case, I thought many other issues concerning race, anti-catholicism, and politics were tangentially involved.
You mention Allentown's high murder rate, usually committed by minorities against minorities. They are usually gang and/or drug-related. All of this has its origin in the way we treat minorities. Slavery is America's original sin, and we are still paying the price. And here we have a group, recognized by all these local leaders, that until recently refused to admit blacks. And in some states, that still appears to be the case.
Early this evening, I looked at a post at LVPoliblog. Aphrodite posted a nice essay about the No Child Left behind Act. Someone came on and complimented her, claiming that nothing is more important than a child's education. We were admonished to write more about that and less about other things, especially the Bennett posts.
You're both right. There are many topics to cover. I could do better. But in the end, I have to decide what I consider to be interesting.
a few observations! 1. men and/or women "only" entities should be ok is my opinion.
2. I never heard of governmental citations unless approved by public vote of some sort sanctioned by all involved and offered by one designated person!
3. a publicly announced event by anyone should never exclude anyone for whatever reason!
4. I learned long ago to publicly deal with "any" issue at hand and never with personalities! Seems much here and in some by our local government officials is based
"only" on personalities!
5. I fully understand BO's policy of allowing anon's to contribute here but also agree personal crap by anon's is not appropriate.
6. any entity has their flaws and strenghts. larry@kisslinger.com
Larry,
I agree my view about "men only" or "women only" is outside the norm.
I've never known NC Council to vote on a citation commending someone. Perhaps those things should be put to a vote.
I appreciate your comments, as always. You make sense. This incident demonstrates why NC government is dysfuntional.
Undertand you spoke to our mutual friend.
Pope Bernie? Well, many apologies for the slight, Your Eminence. I don’t know how I missed the Swiss Guard cavalcade at the Nazareth Army-Navy.
Comparison with BTNP- First, I never said that you referred to yourself as a crusader. I did, and what you did with BTNP was just and necessary. It's not a dismissal to call their comments insults, because at their core, that’s all they were (and I speak of BTNP’s comments to LookOutLV, not his “nuking brown people” bit) People in power need to be held to account when they sling bullshit, whether they’re talking smack on a blog (where the subject of their attacks has a forum to defend themselves), or on the airwaves…which leads to…
Ron’s anti-masonic tendencies- Angle is the kind of guy that, through the occasional bout of poor grammer, means what he says and says what he means. (which is why I vote for him) It doesn’t matter how many times his show aired, the blanket generalization made it out of his mouth. Once is enough. And though the event was open to all members of the public, and the Portland Lodge may be a 501 c3, any organization should have the right to keep away people who have the propensity to create a disturbance.
Dueling Plaques- Couldn’t agree with you more.
Masons Promote Sexism- “Any group that excludes a sex is necessarily sexist. That's just the way it is… I refused to pledge a college frat for that reason.” To each their own, Bippy. “ I don't like groups that refuse memberships to people based on their sex.” Then I expect to see a ripping expose of all of the Catholic priests under your Pontifical control. While you're at it, please explain to me why I, a woman-lover, can’t be a lesbian.
Mason/anti-Italian Catholic/slate belt- I wouldn’t know anything about it, I’m only 38. I’d like to read your post on it, though.
Freemason’s exclusion of Angle was political- No, it was a pissing match between two blowhards who happen to sit on council.
Freemasons and the KKK- If you feels it’s definitely safe to call the KKK a spin-off of the Masons, you may as well say the same thing about the US Government. It too, was spearheaded by some Masons (historically obscure figures named George Washington and Benjamin Franklin)who took the Masonic Lodge's system of checks and balances and adapted it to become the fine system that our current administration pisses all over.
Playing the race card- I said you were playing the race card because you brought race into the discussion apropos of nothing in my post. If Ron were black you may have had something, but otherwise, no. I bet he could grow a sweet afro, though.
And that’s enough from me tonight. I should have known better to start a snark battle with a lawyer with a God complex. The orbicularis is closing. I'm going to bed.
Sweet Jeezus, O'Hare, since when does anyone need an excuse to ban Angle? Hell, I wouldn't want the obnoxious SOB in my bridge club.
Hey,maybe the grand master is really Jolly Joe Timmer. Ever think of that? Hah, that should get the conspiracy nuts a tongue-wagging.
The Curmudgeon
I said: 2. I never heard of governmental citations unless approved by public vote of some sort sanctioned by all involved and offered by one designated person!
guess I should have said by a legislative body? Mayor, Governor and Executives probably can do so and designate someone to make a presentation but why not ask all to agree and stay on same page, unless some want to try and
"upstage" others, which is what I suggest happened at Masons event. larry@kisslinger.com
Oculi,
That's an ex-lawyer with a God complex. Next time you visit my estate atop the Army-Navy store, I'll open the window and bless you.
I won't cross swords with you too much over BTNP's remarks. Remarks were made to LOLV, LVHW, and about Sam Bennett. Three women were referred to several times in a sexually demeaning way. I have a link on my left sidebar to them. In your mind that's not enough to make BTNP a sexist. But one remark, which I admittedly did not hear, is enough for you to conclude that Ron is a mason-phobe?
I acknowledge my opposition to groups that limit membership to one sex is a bit unusual.
I don't agree this group had the right to eject Angle. They invited all members of the public. Ron's sole weapon was a plaque. Unless he intended to throw it at Dertinger, I think it's a stretch to say he had the propensity to cause a disturbance. Based on that rationale, you could exclude anyone you wanted from anything.
I'll tell you something you probably don't know and won't believe. Listening to Ron, you might get the impression that he's a tough old buzzard. The truth is that it hurt him. I spoke to him about an hour before he left for this event from the courthouse, and he was actually excited. But when I spoke to him later in the evening, he was depressed. Most people don't realize he's a real person with feelings. I know I would be mortified if I was told I was not welcome at an event after being personally invited.
I believe his exclusion was pure partisan politics. Yes CD hates RA, but that's what I mean. It's politics.
As far as bringing race into this. Let me explain why. This is not your typical chamber of commerce. It has a deep history of racism and anti-Catholicism.
It is true that Ben Franklin, Washington and many others were masons. But I would not call the US government a spin off because it is nothing like the masons. Our government ideal is to transparent and accountable. Its leaders aren't called grand masters, and they don't meet in secret star chambers. The KKK can properly be called a mason spinoff because it adopts many mason practices, including the secret rituals, etc.
I appreciate the arguments. And you weren't snarking me at all. You were just calling me to task, and yours may be the better argument. I wasn't speaking ex cathedra.
Now go and sin no more.
Curmudgeon,
I understand Timmer was nailing me on his radio show today for some reason.
Here's what I don't get. Why the hell would the masons exclude Angle? You'd think someone with his creds would be automatically inducted into the 47th degree.
I think he'd look pretty good in a fez.
Larry, You're right. In this case we had dueling plaques from two councilman trying to upstage each other.
Oculi,
One final point. You're right about priests. The priesthood should be opened up to both sexes. But sadly, I'm not really the pope. I'm actually a mason.
About Ron:
“In your mind that's not enough to make BTNP a sexist.”
Uh, yes it is.
“one remark… is enough for you to conclude that Ron is a mason-phobe?”
Yes, but I won’t hold it against him.
“it's a stretch to say he had the propensity to cause a disturbance.”
You have to stretch farther to touch your toes.
“you might get the impression that he's a tough old buzzard…Most people don't realize he's a real person with feelings.”
Maybe so, but he gives as good as he gets.
“I know I would be mortified if I was told I was not welcome at an event after being personally invited.”
Did he mention who invited him, and why they didn’t step up on his behalf?
“Yes CD hates RA, but that's what I mean. It's politics.”
RA hates CD no less. RA knew what he was walking into.
“Why the hell would the masons exclude Angle? …automatically inducted into the 47th degree.”
No one is invited to join the masons, each must ask of their own volition.
About Masonry;
“This is not your typical chamber of commerce.”
Masonry in general, or Portland Lodge in particular?
“It has a deep history of racism…”
The Masons certainly aren’t alone there.
“…and anti-Catholicism.”
Masonry is open to all faiths, except Athiests. The Catholic Church dislikes the competition. Masonry has had to defend itself.
“I would not call the US government a spin off because it is nothing like the masons.”
Not so much now, but in the beginning, they were quite similar.
“Our government ideal is to (be) transparent and accountable.”
How do you think that’s working out nowadays?
“Its leaders aren't called grand masters…”,
Some of them are Masons,and that "Majority Whip" title sounds pretty cool.
“and they don't meet in secret star chambers”
You think CSPAN has cameras in every room in DC?
“The KKK can properly be called a mason spinoff because it adopts many mason practices, including the secret rituals, etc.”
I don’t know, this might be true. Do you know from your experiences with the Klan?
“ But sadly, I'm not really the pope. I'm actually a mason.”
I thought I saw you at the last meeting.
oculi,
Points well made and well said. I'll let you have the last word.
The Catholic Church fears the competition of the Masons? Is that in a theological vein or an authoritarian vein? Masons have a high opinion of themselves, as does the church. However, the church is based on an Almighty God. Regarless of how perverted the Catholic Church may have been, what exactly are you defending from competition, another God? Even horny old King Henry VIII, had the decency to claim the same God when he created his own Church.
anon 1238
Competition for members/adherents/devotees/dues- paying-warm-bodies-in-the-seats.
Ron's quip that day was probably just joking around and that would make all this simply moot
Charles and Ron in a pissing match, that's news. Meanwhile Northampton County open space money is poised to be used by Bethlehem to leverage and flip property to a certain developer.
http://www.mcall.com/news/local/all-b5_3space.6041075sep13,0,3637759.story
The development of a greenway thru south Bethlehem has been discussed for years. Now, if someone is trying to enrich himself in some way, I'm all ears. But that MC account is very vague. Do you have details you'd like to share?
makes me feel sorry for that little Gacey look-alike.
But then again the Masons have been corrupting American Politics since 1776!
All these secrect soceities that you have to pledge into are full of folks whom have done terrible things to this country.
Wasn't there even once a theory claiming evey President was killed by a Mason. Or prospective Mason.
And as for anti-Catholic. (while I despise what the Chatohlic Church has done to earth!) I would like to remind everyone of another mostly white boy clubs that hates Catholics.
Ku Klux Klan and the NAZI party. More groups with pledges to be a member.
Also never take anything serious you saw in the Pocono Wreched. aka Record.
Its so bad if you wipe your ass with it your shit smells worst!
Perhaps the worst editing in Print of a NON-Newscorp paper!
They try to avoid pics with TV news mics and locos because they don't want to remind folks TV has news also. What is this 1947?
I had pics in HS (1998) of a student walkout and the principal asking the TV News to leave the property.
They went with a crappier pic on the front page since it lacked the TV news in it. And they took the PR guy (joe Lyons aka Joe lying) who sid it was 15 minutes between classes and no classes were disrputed, It was the middle of a period and dragged on for 2 hours!
They never had the balls to call him and that district out on it. that would have involved WORK! And the Pocono Wreched is not a place for that.
hey bernie, investigate the RED HAT ladies. be thorough, find out if their sexist by joining.youd look good in a red hat.would give you credibility.
Bernie also has the red ruby slippers from the Wizard of OZ and when he clicks the heals together he can do some amazing stuff :):)
Anon 1:00 PM, What can I say? When I'm wrong about something, I'm wrong. Not every "all boys" or "all girls" club is sexist.
the best part is all the secret stuff and initiations the red hats do ,youll love it,god only knows what goes on in the ladies changing room at Macys.signals,foot tapping. now theres a place to wash your nuts.
I don't mind the shots. But I would not use that language in mixed company. You don't have to respect me, but I'd appreciate it if you could show some respect to my readers.
but Bernie has used the F , S, B Ba words at the drop of a red hat on a regular basis
I don't refer to other people's bodily parts with language that is insulting in mixed company. And I don't use any profanity that I would hesitate to use in mixed company. Please respect my wishes.
bernie said"Liburtie Coach Beavis: "We come first, dumb ass."
Freedumb Coach Butthead: "Eh heh, heh. He said 'come'."
Liburtie Coach Beavis: "Shut up Bunghole! I'll kick yer ass!"
Freedumb Coach Butthead: "I peed in the gym once."
a blog is mixed company
bernie... I never wanted anything to do with blogs. But I heard you on the RA show saying look at my blog. I heard Joe Owens and Jim Deegan on the old WEST always saying look at their blogs. And you guys all have lists of other peoples blogs to look at. So guess what happened. I did look. All you guys have your big mouth and sometimes post stuff all the time. But when you hear something you don't like or a different point of view you will sometimes ignore it or cry boo hoo. Bernie, you have been throwing around 4 and 5 letter words on this blog ever since I started looking 5 months ago. So don't start giving us this Pope Bernie crap. You should have thought of that before I even came here.
I know what I wrote. I did not refer to people's genitilia, as you did when you posted anonymously. I have asked you to be respectful to other posters and you have refused. I have asked you to clean up your language and you have refused. Since you insist on carrying on irrelevant and insulting arguments, I have no choice but to delete every comment you make. If you have something to say about this, take it back channel. I would write you but lost your email. I have already had to close off comment on one blog post because of your inane rants. You are no longer welcome here.
Congratulations Bernie,
You finally figured river out.
Now if I could convince you about Angle you would be OK in my book.
elgna;
I'm still trying to get BO to arrange an Angle v. Dertinger mud wrestling match for charity. Hold it in the slate Belt. It would be a sellout. Some needy charity could make out bigtime when those two big slatebelt egos go at it.
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