You can see Hyman's proposed building in the picture accompanying this story. It's a 1,300 sq ft structure with a drive-thru and walk-up window. There's no indoor dining. It's hardly complicated, and he has zoning approval.
Here's where things get interesting.
Allentown, like many municipalities, requires a third-party review of building plans. This is supposed to expedite the permitting process by allowing a recognized independent agency to review the structural, mechanical, electrical, plumbing, architectural and accessibility requirements of a building project. This enables the developer to address any issues before plans are approved. That's what Hyman did and he addressed all issues that were raised. But guess what? Allentown, unlike other municipalities, insists on conducting its own review of submitted plans after the third party review is completed. Hyman's proposed restaurant got hit with 63 comments from Allentown's planners.
To make matters worse, Hyman could address all comments, resubmit and have Allentown planners come back with 63 more comments.
All this delay is costly to a developer, especially if he has borrowed money to finance a project.
This is why nobody wants to build in Allentown. Hyman told me he can go to any other community and "be welcomed with open arms and get double the rent," but not in his own home town. "With the present bureaucracy, I will not build," be told me.
47 comments:
That's a real shame, because I LOVE Nathan's! With Yocco's and Potts, the valley would be hot dog heaven with a Nathan's franchise here.
" he can go to any other community and "be welcomed with open arms and get double the rent," but not in his own home town. "With the present bureaucracy, I will not build," be told me"
Then he can go elsewhere.
No one is forcing him to do this and if he can double his rents with the same expenditure he would be a bad businessman not to do that.
He only wants to build in his home town for nostalgia.?
thank god money has nothing to do with it.
Somehow the city will get by without him.
Wow. It's so bad it's almost like you gotta grease a mayor to get anything done
Fewer and fewer people want to travel to Allentown for any reason. The bureaucracy is doing Nat a favor, albeit unintended and born of antisemitism. The people keep speaking for those who choose to listen. Things Allentown doesn't like:
Nat
Jews
Cops
Law and order
Churches
Good schools
Non-Reilly businesses
Visitors
Some of this doesn’t make sense. No bank would lend money before final municipal approval is received so finance costs shouldn’t cost Mr. Hyman, or any other developer, a penny. Review changes do cause additional architectural/engineering costs but this is the case in any municipality, especially when seeking relief from certain ordinances.
All this from a one time candidate for mayor? Than we have Allentowns insider agencies from with in the city government and they can just bring a facade picture and get a conditional approval. This all with out the normal plot plan blue prints or any other documents needed. The powolski administrations operating systems are still in place in Allentown PA as well as insider trading in the real estate flipping and receiving government monies as investors?
Hyman’s hot dogs kosher ?.
I'm a little skeptical of these claims. I'd love to hear the City's side of this story.
I drove through Allentown this weekend to go to the bbq festival on Hamilton Street. There were hoodlums in masks driving their motorcycleses throughout the streets, many going the wrong way and driving on one wheel. Police cars passed them on several occasions and did nothing. The City is worse than ever and Tuerk is definitely not up to the task to fix it. They missed their opportunity to elect Mr. Hyman who could have turned it around. Now it is too far gone. It doesn't surprise me that the building departments are a mess and that Mr. Hyman is done with Allentown.
If Mr. Reilly and NIZ (using OUR money) were behind bringing a new Nathan’s Hot Dog Restaurant to town, the building would be completed quickly and without questions. The Morning Call would sing praises every day.
Mr. Hyman, you’ve been too loyal to Allentown, for too long.
Allentown needs Hyman way more than Hyman needs Allentown!
The long and short of it.. Allentown is run like a good ole boys club and Nat isn't in it. It's just that simple.
I'm no fan of bureaucracy at any level, but something seems to be missing here.
Could you supply the 63 comments that Allentown planners came back with? Are some legitimate? Are some so onerous that Hyman feels that they're deal-breakers for the project?
In my experience, these comments are often relatively minor, protect neighboring properties and make for a better outcome. Also, few developers are willing to tank a project that they've put substantial time and money into over inconsequential comments.
Is this the case of Hyman using a project that might have some public appeal to make a statement and try to change the system?
If so, I'm all for it but I think we need to be given more facts to know what's really going on here.
6:14, Actually, Hyman has quite a few projects outside of Allentown, from Nazareth to Williamsport. But Allentown is his home, and he has stayed there instead of moving to the 'burbs. It's called loyalty, an attribute that few people have, I agree it's very bad business.
"I'm a little skeptical of these claims. I'd love to hear the City's side of this story."
Sometimes, there only s one side of a story. Allentown's bldg inspectors have been assholes for years, and are used to being used politically. I remember them being sent on a poor older woman who was conducting a yard sale. Michael Molovinsky has chronicled their abuses, as have I.
Hyman sat down with Vicky Kistler with his complaint about Allentown having to review plans after they go thru third party review. She agreed with his objections, and Cityy Council was ready to vote on a measure to eliminate city review after third party review. Suddenly, Kistler did an about face on the issue. It's job protection.
"No bank would lend money before final municipal approval is received so finance costs shouldn’t cost Mr. Hyman, or any other developer, a penny. Review changes do cause additional architectural/engineering costs but this is the case in any municipality, especially when seeking relief from certain ordinances."
I agree that, in many instances outside of Allentown, this is no issue. But in Allentown, you can have planning approval and the city will still refuse to issue building permits or COs over nonsense. That's when you start losing money.
I'm frankly surprised this is still happening. Fed Ed used his inspectors as goons, but UI would think Tuerk would have streamlined this by now. He is from the community and economic development arena and should recognize that third party review followed by never-ending city review is redundant and deters development.
"Could you supply the 63 comments that Allentown planners came back with? Are some legitimate? Are some so onerous that Hyman feels that they're deal-breakers for the project?"
Let me think about it. I'm not sure that my readers would share your interest in this minutiae, but I get your point. I am sure that many of the comments are minor. I doubt any are legit because this project already went through a required third party review, which the developer incidentally has to pay to have done. Hyman told me that the cost of addressing these 63 comments makes the project unfeasible, especially because he could address them all and inspectors could return with 63 more. That practice should end as well.
If Allentown wants to conduct its own review to protect the public welkfare, then it should drop the separate third party review. If it wants a third party review bc its manpower is limited, then it should drop its own review. At the very least, if it insists on continuing this absurd practice, it should stop the practice of re-reviewing its own comments and coming back with more.
6:14 You're an idiot! (or maybe you're one of those antisemites 6:55 is referring to). Do you read a newspaper? don't you think the rent is double in Macungie, Emmaus, Bethlehem, Easton? Of course it is. You are the bad businessman. The City isn't getting by so well with him so I don't see that it will do better, let alone as well, without him. Allentown needs every bit of development it can get and should bend over backward to streamline the system for every developer, including Hyman.
I have emailed the city to request a justification for its own review following third party review. But as I said, sometimes there is only one side to a story.
6:14, your comment is short-sighted and stupid. I can only hope you don't work in City Hall.
I think we need more info on this story, but if Allentown's process is broken, it should be fixed.
No developer should be treated badly, particularly one that's done as much for the city as Nat Hyman.
Bernie -
How does the third-party review system work in Allentown? Does the city have a list of acceptable vendors (reviewers) or can a developer choose their own?
Honestly, depending on how it works I can see the system being abused by both sides. The city could choose only politically connected vendors to do the work, or developers could a choose third-party reviewer that isn't familiar with Allentown building and zoning laws.
I'm assuming that Hyman likely used someone he's used in the past for other projects in Allentown, although I don't know that for sure.
Anon 12:56 said:
"With Yocco's and Potts, the valley would be hot dog heaven with a Nathan's franchise here."
Yeah, you would think Allentown would be fast tracking this.
After all, city politicians have been going out of their way to give us the wiener for decades!
"How does the third-party review system work in Allentown? Does the city have a list of acceptable vendors (reviewers) or can a developer choose their own?"
The city maintains a list of several approved vendors for third-party review. The developer picks one and pays for it.
"Hyman’s hot dogs kosher ?."
That's an anti-Semitic trope.
Mr. Hyman has developed several hundred apartments (maybe over 1,000) with no public subsidies. He provides reasonably priced apartments, in converted old industrial buildings.
The city recognized that there have been too many delays in the process, and put out a request for proposals for outside firms to assist with many types of reviews. I don't know the conclusion of that process. The city has some vacancies in staffing.
I assume such a building request get passed across the desks of many different Allentown departments and agencies for comment. Perhaps not, but it’s possible various concerns have been raised over “community benefit” impacts, like hiring practices at this business and all other businesses involved in construction. Perhaps environmental impacts in great detail, for example, using only recyclable materials, no natural gas stoves, etc. It’s the world we live in. Allentown is about as woke as it gets.
Totally agree. Hyman has done very well in Allentown. Virtually every one of his projects has been granted some form of zoning relief along the way. Seems a little crass for him to go running off to some blog because he feels he didn’t get his way on one.
10:32AM, how do you know how many of Hyman's projects have gotten zoning relief? Maybe there have been some that were rejected. Are you on the zoning board? More to the point, 10:10 said "He provides reasonably priced apartments, in converted old industrial buildings." Since all we hear about is how much housing is needed in Allentown and he is taking old industrial buildings that are falling apart and serve no other purpose, isn't that what zoning relief is for? Seems like a win win to me. And Bernie, did Hyman come "running to" you because he didn't get his way? I don't know Hyman from Adam. But it seems to me that he is doing some good in the community and the City needs all the help it can get. And people like you 10:32 speak out your ass, know nothing about the situation while doing nothing for the city.
Hyman should have been Mayor. O'Connell robbed the City of that chance
" And Bernie, did Hyman come "running to" you because he didn't get his way? "
I reached out to him bc it seemed odd to me that he'd have to open with a trailer. I was wondering whether this was Nathan's or the City. I got my answer.
That's a lot of questions about a hot dog stand. Who are these officials? What are they paid? What do they do each hour of the day? I have questions about such a cumbersome process. I suspect there's an inefficient feeding trough at play here.
Someone in City Hall must be either a vegetarian or a Willy Joe's fan.
Mr. Hyman has 4 things this city hates - he's too smart for them, too rich, too important to this city and he just doesn't give a shit what they think.
9:14 & 9:44 are 100% correct that 6:14 is just stupid. 6:14 when was the last time you drove through Allentown ? Hyman's name is on every building that has been redeveloped outside the NIZ. without him, this City would have the NIZ and nothing else.
It’s all public record. Conversion of industrial buildings to residential is only allowed by special exemption. His projects also often don’t adhere to the city’s parking and signage requirements. If anything he should view the city as a partner rather than his adversary.
3:18, He's not that smart. 1) He's a terrible Hearts player. 2) He answers my calls, which rightly diminishes his reputation.
Here is some trivia; Nathan's hotdogs are made by Smithfield Foods, the largest pork producer in the world, and is Chinese owned.
3.25
" 6:14 is just stupid"
As I am 6.14 --well bless your heart. I've been called worse by better.
where does it say that everyone must fawn over a developer?
BTW a third review keeps the developer from only using the firm that caters to his wishes.
The "if you want to get picked what will you do for me?"
Mr. Hyman has developed quite a lot and got paid for doing so.
Good for him.
If he walks away someone will take his place.
No development will occur unless he does it?
That's ludicrous.
Bernie
The 3rd party review was for uniform construction code compliance(UCC) aka “the building code”. That 3rd party review does not address, land development, zoning, engineering, traffic impact, health department, floodplain,(if in a floodplain),historical review(if in a district). These are all different departments and programs that could be in play. So the 63 comments are pertinent to the conversation.
I would be more skeptical of the review if the 63 comments came from just the Bureau Building Standards, which the 3rd party does the review for. The rest of the reviews are in house.
You sound like a real jackass.🫏
It's a shame a quality project like this is stymied.
It doesn't seem very hard, though, for slumlords to carve-up row homes into welfare apartments, does it?
Yes it does. The Zoning Department will spend more time telling you why they can’t do anything about an illegally converted home than actually getting off their asses and out of the office to do anything about them.
Plus, the rental inspections that landlords (on legal rentals) pay a fee for annually actually only happen once every FIVE years. This allows 5 years of deterioration on a problem rental property before zoning comes out.
In those five years, homeowners end up moving because of the problem property and that block is lost.
"The 3rd party review was for uniform construction code compliance(UCC) aka “the building code”. That 3rd party review does not address, land development, zoning, engineering, traffic impact, health department, floodplain,(if in a floodplain),historical review(if in a district). These are all different departments and programs that could be in play. So the 63 comments are pertinent to the conversation.
I would be more skeptical of the review if the 63 comments came from just the Bureau Building Standards, which the 3rd party does the review for. The rest of the reviews are in house."
If this is so, then it's clear to me that the third party review is a redundancy and the city review is onerous. First, there should be no need to review zoning if application had already been made for zoning relief. Second, why would building standards need to review if a third party already reviewed for UCC? Third, this independent review could easily include floodplain and traffic impact by real engineers who carry liability insurance. Fourth, you have created a redundancy by requiring a developer to obtain a third party review and then re-reviewing for UCC, which is always about 90% of the comments. Fifth, after the developer satisfies most of the comments, you then review again and find additional comments not raised ion the first go-around in a never-ending cycle. This, along with a shitty school district and high crime, is why developers shun Allentown unless there's all kinds of public sweeteners.
Bernie,
I'd like to address your comments in the order that you have stated them.
1. Zoning review. Your statement is not necessarily true, it would depend upon the relief sought by Mr. Hyman. Was the relief he sought a variance an appeal. Did the Mr. Hyman submit for zoning and get denied, thereby identifying the areas in which the zoning was deficient or did the applicant file for pre-emptive variance partially identifying what he believed was non con-forming. In many cases relief is sought for some items and other items may need to be further addressed. Details matter.
2. I agree that the second review is redundant, no argument here.
3. It is common practice for municipalities to utilize 3rd party engineering firms for SALDO, Stormwater, Traffic, ETC reviews. In my experience it is more effective for large municipalities to have in house reviews due to the detailed institutional knowledge of the municipality as well as the detailed knowledge of the Ord. Some of the in house staff in in the City of Allentown are "real' engineers and not some guy off the street.
4. I think this is related to comment #2 and agree, but with the caveat that if as you say 90% of the comments relate to building code, which if we use the 63 comments above. That means 57 of them are building code related. Also see A. and B. below.
5. After revisions your concern is that more comments will appear that would indicate to me 2 things. (A.) You should probably use a better 3rd party reviewer and (B.) You should probably hire a better design professional.
Perhaps Nat would have better luck opening a hookah lounge in this city :-)
8:50, Thanks for your comment.
First, I'm unaware whether zoning allowed the use or if a special exception or variance was needed. If zoning relief was needed, it was obviously obtained. And incidentally, the Zoning Hearing Board is a separate, quasi-judicial body. The City can scream all it wants, but zoning is not the city's ultimate call. It should have no bearing at all on any review letter.
Second, I'm glad to see we agree that it is redundant to have building standards review after an independent third party with liability insurance has already done so.
Third, it is far from more "efficient" to have a separate review for SALDO, traffic, etc. You are actually building in layers of redundancy and inefficiency. I apologize for suggesting that Allentown's engineers are not real engineers, but the simple truth is that the engineers doing third party review are highly qualified and command double the salaries paid to city engineers. There is one engineer who ends everything with "More comments to follow." That is absolutely ridiculous.
Fourth, yes, many of the comments come from building standards. So we agree.
Fifth, I'll ignore the cheap shot you gave to Hyman's design engineer. It makes up for the cheap shot I gave to Allentown's engineers. We're even. Your other point is that Hyuman should be using a different third party. He is using a third party specifically approved by the city. So perhaps the city should stop approving vendors whose advice it ignores.
So we have some areas of agreement. That's a starting point. The current system is broken and needs to be fixed. There should also be expedited review if a developer is willing to pay. Some might object that this favors those with the means, but that's nonsense bc there really is very little development in Allentown, aside from the waterfront and the other NIZ projects.
Bernie: do I not recall that Nat Hyman sued Donald trump and won? Wether you like Donald trump or not, I think the world has seen that Donald trump is probably the toughest fighter there is out there. So If Mr. Hyman had the guts to go up against Donald trump (and then WON!) it seems to me that the dimwits in the city of Allentown would be wise to avoid a fight with him.
I believe the city only has one engineer left on staff, who is overworked. That is why they were moving to using a consulting engineering firm for more reviews, which is common practice in all other municipalities in the Lehigh Valley.
Most of Mr. Hyman's apartment projects involved a conversion of a former industrial building that needed a "special exception" from the Zoning Hearing Board. A special exception is "not special and not an exception". It is an allowed use that is supposed to be approved if you meet the other provisions of the zoning ordinance. With old buildings on tight sites, it is also common to need a couple variances.
These "adaptive reuse" projects have involved investment in old industrial buildings that no one else was willing to undertake. Many of the buildings had been mostly vacant for years.
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