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Nazareth, Pa., United States

Monday, December 25, 2006

Why Immediate Withdrawal From Iraq Is Not a Good Idea

This is why I think immediate withdrawal is not a good idea.

BAGHDAD, Dec. 24 — The American military is holding at least four Iranians in Iraq, including men the Bush administration called senior military officials, who were seized in a pair of raids late last week aimed at people suspected of conducting attacks on Iraqi security forces, according to senior Iraqi and American officials in Baghdad and Washington.

Do you really think Iran, Syria, Turkey and Saudi Arabia will sit idly by if we pull out? I never thought we belonged there, but the immediate withdrawal urged by Mike Moore is just plain stupid.


Greendogdem said...

Well as I keep saying there is no good way out of Iraq. If we stay it's bad if we go it's bad. If we stay we probably are going to get attacked anyway. We have open Pandora's box and even hope is gone.

Greendogdem said...

This is starting to look like the soviets in Afghanistan in the 80's

Greendogdem said...

actually this is starting to look like a mix of the worse parts of Vietnam and Afghanistan

Bernie O'Hare said...

Greendog, It's a sad situation, my man.

Greendogdem said...

The simple fact is what bush looks like he's trying to do is keep kicking the can down the road without making a decision

r.moshki said...

It is a double-avoidance conflict.

Greendogdem said...

actually I think the Bush adm just made things worse. The people they picked up were Iranians with diplomatic credentials. They were there at the invitation of the vp of Iraq.

Bernie O'Hare said...

The two Iranians who had diplomatic credentials were released. Looks like Iran doesn't want to wait until we leave.

Greendogdem said...

Well at some point we are going to have to accept that fact that Iran is going to have a major roll in Iraq whether we like it or not

Bernie O'Hare said...

Inasmuch as Iranians with diplomatice credentials were tagged while planning attacks, it's pretty clear Iranians already have a major role.


OFCOURSE the irainians are plotting. With an administration who REFUSES to negotiate with them, and keeps threating invasion of them next. WHAT ELSE WILL THEY DO?

Rember when JFK was sworn in. Before he said "Ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country." He said, "Lets us NOT negotiate out of fear, and let us NOT fear to negotiate!"

If we were this threating towards Canada do you think Ottawa would not be secretly backing an uprising to hold off an invasion.

Listen Iran is not the best government, but as long as we impose Cowboy Diplomacy we are only putting the fuel on the Anti-american fire!

Mad batter said...

Guys, the only way out is with a military draft. I am a Realist Democrat, but we need to rebuild our forces, WORLDWIDE. We don't have enough men or equipment to invade Canada, let alone "secure" our Mexican border if we chose.
Bush will kick the can for two more years, until we get a Democratic President with resolve to tell us the truth, and give us a plan. We need criminal indictments of all Republicans from Bush on down in the presidential branch, and the U.S. Govt must seize Halliburton, its' subsidiaries, and all their assets.
We need a President like FDR, determined to do what needs to be done, not what the pollsters tell him to do to get re-elected or be popular. Look what trying to be popular did for Bush. We need leadership willing to lead, listen and act determinedly. I will argue that Bush did none of that with my last dying breath. He's been listening to "God", and that was Dick Cheney by Cell Phone.

Bernie O'Hare said...

MadBatter, There is no political will for a draft, especially to resolve what should have been a police action against Osama bin Laden. No Democrat or Republican who makes this argument seriously will ever win a national office.

Anonymous said...

Bring the troops home next weekend...this is a mistake of the highest proportions

Bernie O'Hare said...

Anon 9:50, I agree that the decision to invade Iraq was a "mistake of the highest proportions." But bringing all the troops home next weekend is just another one of those stupid mistakes, condemning ever more Iraqis to certain death and creating even more instability in the region than we did by invading.

Anonymous said...


Tough, gutsy, and correct post. Well put.

And Spike: Iran's current government is not just a bad administration. They execute people convicted of sodomy, execute women for using physical force to defend themselves against rapists, are trying to get nuclear weapons, have promised to share their nuclear technology with the genocidal government of Sudan, invited David Duke to a conference about how the Holocaust never happened. They're a very, very bad administration.

We'll see how last week's elections effect them. I'm not too optimistic.

Bernie O'Hare said...

Anon 10:51, It's a scary place, dude. And unfortunately, it has also been the chief beneficiary of our failures in Iraq. But I have no problem with dialogue. After all, we had dialoguee with the Soviet Union, which did pose a very serious and concrete threat.

bwsnyder said...

the U.S. Govt must seize Halliburton, its' subsidiaries, and all their assets.

Ah yes, the war against Halliburton, the second most hated company in America.

Some stats I had run into a few years ago (Hoovers):

In 1994: 57,000 employees, $5.7 billion in sales

In 2003: 101,000 employees, $16 billion in sales

In 2005: 106,000 employees, $21 billion in sales.

Wow; growing company, adding employees, and the company is not named "Wal-Mart." Sometimes I swear the same people who curse GM and Ford when they close plants and lay off people turn around and in the same breath curse the companies that are growing, like Halliburton.

Plus, what kind of jobs does Halliburton provide? Do they provide the overstereotyped "Wal-Mart" job or does Halliburton's 106,000 employees really translate into 106,000 family incomes? I have a feeling Halliburton employees aren't making $6.25 an hour greeting people as they walk in to the office lobby.

People who think that Dick Cheney is the only person to benefit from Halliburton are leaving out 106,000 families.

Bernie O'Hare said...

Halliburton is a war profiteer. Its expansion since '94 is simply a reflection of our increased militarism in that time. And the no-bid contracts awarded to Haliburton are an indication of a government that has lost touch with the importance of transparency. I could see some emergency no-bid contracts, but not for the length of time or the amounts that Haliburton has enjoyed.

I undertand the American respect for business, but don't you think these no-bid contracts are just a tad excessive? I don't blame Haliburton for that. I blame Congress.

Greendogdem said...

I honestly don't think you get it. It doesn't matter if we leave now two months from now two year from now or two decades from now. As soon as we leave Iraq's Streets will run with blood. By removing saddam we removed the only thing that was keeping the iraqis from killing each other. The sooner we understand this the better off we are going to be. We aren't going to stop a regional war the only thing we are doing by stay there is stopping inevitable from happening . Somethings can only be solved with Spilling blood and until enough is split to satisfy all the old offenses there will be no solution. At some point we need to let the Iraqis kill each other, because that's what they want to do .


anon 10:51

Some in this country want to kill people for the same reasons and hate women as much.

Ever see the 700 club?

And Bob jones University?

Religous fanatics lie everwhere the grass is tall.

Should we invade Virginia as well?

Heck we may even find the other 300 kids who call soon FORMER PA Senator Santorum Dad!

Anonymous said...


Ah yes, the "some people in America are crazy too!" defense.

An important distinction: here, people who kill homosexuals for being gay are sentenced to life in prison or executed. In Iran, the people who do it are called "Mr. President."

Come on, that's a trivial argument.

Bernie O'Hare said...

"At some point we need to let the Iraqis kill each other, because that's what they want to do."
That's harsh, dude. What about those Iraqis, especially Kurds, who have prospered with Americans there? Turkey won't allow that to continue? When Shia goes after Sunnis, won't Iran be leading the charge? And won't Saudi Arabia react at the senselesss slaughter of Sunnis?

Those folks are human beings just like you and me. Immediate withdrawl makes many deaths certain. It destroys our credibility internationally. Attempting to fix what we broke makes a little more sense.

Greendogdem said...

I'm not sure it's possible to fix what we broke unless we install another Iron-fisted Dictator. I don't think there is much creditability left to lose. The simply fact is we are delaying the inevitable, not preventing anything. Let's remember India Cira 1930's and 40's this was the same argument of the British in India for not leaving. They stayed and stayed and even though there was coordinated hatred of the British as soon as the English left India the Muslims and Hindus turned on each other. So staying longer isn't going to change anything. The English stayed in India for 300 years and it didn't change the view of the Muslims and Hindu's about each other. The only thing that keeps India from being a massive daily blood bath is that it was separated into India and Pakistan (today Pakistan and Bangladesh.) It's still a massive mess though because Britain decided some of the apportionment. India was a country that had not existed before there was no "India" what became India only existed because the British forced it into existence and had 300 years to form a national identity of it's own. Even during Mongol rule the connection between the princely states was fractious at best.

Greendogdem said...

The simply fact is India and Pakistan are still at war with other off and on all the time and British staying forever didn't stop that

LSTresidentPIA said...

We had a civil war in this country and correct me if I am wrong, but no other country stopped it or prevented it. I don't remember how many people died. Why should it be any different in Iraq?

These are tribal people who have fought each other for years and will for years whether they live in Iraq, Iran or where ever.

We put Sadam in power and he stopped doing what we wanted so we finally took him out of power.
These people do not want democracy. If they did they would be fighting for it, not agaisnt us.
We are wasting valuable lives, resources, and money to create a democracy in an area that doesn't want it. They want to spread the fudalmentalist view of Islam all over the world and they are succeeding. The world is going to eventaully be taken over by Muslims in an effort to cleanse the world of the materialistic and capitalistic ideals associated with democracy that go agaisnt their religion.

I think the comments made by the President of Iaq are troubling regarding the capture of Iranian officials he claims he invited. This man seems to be someone we cannot trust. I undersand he wants to look like he is independent and not a puppet of the US, but how don't we know that he is not againt us.

There will be more attacks in America and other places American's are.They have been successful in thrawting several attacks thus far, but it seems like there are many out there and one day it is going to happen. I constantly wonder about the Muslims living in the US and fear they are sleeper cells just waitng to do their dirty work.