Armstrong's book is nothing less than a historical survey of our religious beliefs, from 32,000 year-old animal paintings in deep underground caverns, to our modern doubts and denials. Rather than showing how we've advanced, her chief argument is that we've regressed.
Pre-modern cultures, according to this ex-nun, had two ways of thinking - mythos and logos. Neither was considered superior to the other. Logos, of course, is the pragmatic world. Mythos was a way of understanding the intangibles, even though the myths themselves are patently absurd.
As we've become more empirical and technological, we've discarded the mythos associated with religion, no longer seeing the point in rituals. Armstrong argues this has led to fundamentalism and atheism. For example, rather than just accepting the mystery of religion, Christian fundamentalists will insist that everything in the Bible is scientifically accurate, presuming to know God's mind. Modern atheists, like fundamentalists, exalt logos as well, finding it in science.
Armstrong rebuts these two modern developments. We've forgotten the mystery. God "is not good, divine, powerful or intelligent in any way that we can understand. We could not even say that God 'exists', because our concept of existence is too limited."
It's certainly no beach book, but is perhaps the most compelling theological survey I've ever read.
Now let me tell you about the Brahmodya competition, which began in the tenth century. It's very much like the comment exchanges that sometimes occur here and on other blogs. First, we all go off and prepare ourselves by fasting or eating twinkies, whatever works. Then the battle begins with someone making an enigmatic statement. His opponent responds with an equally inscrutable comment. And so the battle rages until finally, there is silence. At that moment of silence, when we all realize the inadequacy of our written words, the Brahman is present.
See, blogging is deeply spiritual. No wonder Father Alex is a frequent contributor.
29 comments:
Sounds like an interesting book. I also recommend "The Year of Living Biblically" where a secular Jew decided to live his life for one year according to the Bible, following all commandments from not touching menstruating women or sitting where they have sat (he stopped shaking hand with all women and his wife and female family members did an Excel spreadsheet to keep him aprised of their cycles while he carried a portable plastic chair everywhere he went to avoid where menstruating women had been) to stoning adulterers (he walked around NYC until he found a man who admitted having cheated on his wife 30 years earlier and he threw pebbles at him.) There was a lot of historical explanation for why Jews and Christians invented the laws they did. Another great book!
The Bible is an evolution of man's thinking about God. When you read the Old Testament you have to read it in context of the culture and understand that the God in the Old Testament was a national God. You also have to understand as you move through the Bible other religous ideas were incorporated into the national God as Israel is exposed to other cultures.
Originally Satan was an angel whose role was to test human beings. Satan was an adversary of God not of human beings. Satan evolved into an adversary of God as Israel became exposed to Persian culture and Zoarastoritic philosophies.
Many of the stories in the Bible are historical but put in a Religous context. This is similar to the Illiad, where a Trojan War really happened but the God's were added to explain the war and add Greek morality tales into it.
oops meant to write Satan was an adversary of Human Beings not God and was under the total control of God.
I have seen her on Bill Moyers Journal pushing her Golden Rule thing as a common glue for humanity in the growing global world.
If what you say about blogging is true Bernie, then you're a better man than me Gunga Din and much more spiritual. ;-)
Bernie, no Veterans Day post this year? What is Dent doing today? He lives for giving vets paper certficates printed out from his computer. Meanswhile, 2,266 vets under 65 died last year because they couldn't get health insurance, that's 6 a day. God rest their souls.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=veterans+die+no+health+insurance+harvard+2008&aq=f&oq=&aqi=
A veteran is someone who, at one point in his/her life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America," for an amount of "up to and including my life."
Thank you to all the veterans today and every day.
I'm a big fan of Karen Armstrong. AN older book of hers called "A History of God" is fantastic. Good to see her pop up on here.
"Bernie, no Veterans Day post this year? What is Dent doing today? He lives for giving vets paper certficates printed out from his computer."
If you want to smear Dent because he pays attention to veterans, recognizes their value and honors them, knock yourself out. I'm sure they'll take their chandes w/ Dent on health care. A least he tells them where he stands, unlike Callahan.
Incidentally, the topic here is God, not Charlie Dent.
From what you present in this woman's book, I wonder if she is still a practicing Catholic?
From your presentation, I wonder if she realizes how close she is to Eastern Spirituality, most especially the Semetic areas of their religions.
This is the hardest concept to convey to Western/Latin Rite Catholics: the presumption of knowledge of God.
We know God through what he reveals to us in Scripture. We can come to some Dogmas of the Church. But the only other viable way to know God is via negativa: to know God by what he isn't.
I have try to express this mode of thought many times here and in life: God does not submit to our philosophies or laws of this world. He is beyond that. In effect, he is the nature of being - what it is to be. (What is funny is that I had to employ two Western/Latin metaphysical descriptions to enumerate my Eastern position.)
She sounds like a good read. I just wonder why she is not a sister anymore.
Peace be with you, ~~Alex
The Village Idiot,
She wrote a book called The Spiral Staircase which is in essence an autobiography that explains her falling out of the convent etc..
A break from politics is very welcomed Bernie. Human words and ideas are very lacking as descriptives in the field of religon/philosophy/theology. How to define the unknown and unseen with mere words! Inclusive thoughts are the most productive and they garner peaceful solutions rather than conflict. Common ground can be found and we can walk parallel paths to God if we want to drop the hate and mistrust. The divine spark of creation resides in all of us if only we seek it and see the face of God in everyone we meet.
0ur culturaly transcendent collective ethos casts a multi-generational shadow.
Holy shit! I think Brahman is in the house. Hi, Brahman!
Sorry to interupt the silence.
I will add this to my reading list. I know that I've been struggling through my own interactions with the church of late, not because of crisis of faith but b/c I don't think the church is helping me to grow closer to God. Thankfully some very intelligent people are working with me to attempt to change that. I'm learning a valuable lesson: just like helping communities change and grow, the country to change and businesses to change, changing a church is painstaking work.
Now, if we would just listen to God and trust each other, this would be a lot easier.
Geoff
Thanks for the tip Mr. Kleiner.
Geoff, I will pray for you. Hopefully, you will have patience. You made the first step. Now allow grace to build upon humanity. Just as The Holy Spirit guides and changes the Church, may His Spirit guide you. The Magesterium has much to offer and to give proper guidance.
Bernie, did you ever read St. Augustine's, City of God? But if you can't tackle that, I highly suggest Fulton J. Sheen's, The World's First Love. Also, anything you can get your hands on regarding ANYTHING that the Syriac Fathers of the Church wrote. Keep in mind when reading anything from the Syriac Fathers, that these men did not have an extensive library. For almost most of them, they only had one book, The Bible. Whereas, St. Thomas Aquinas had libraries. Even the Greek philosophers: Aristotle, Plato, Plotinus, and such had some works to deal with. A good book regarding the Hellenstic Period was writing by A.A. Long. It must be the second edition regarding the Hellenstic Era. The one without Latin. It demonstrates how religions and philosophies evolved and helped evolve theology.
Peace, ~~Alex
I have a quick question for all of you. It is a question with two parts. Maybe someone will be brave enough to answer it. Ready? Okay, here it goes...
How many gods does the Christian Church have? What is the difference between God-the Father, God-the Son, and God-the Holy Spirit?
I gave part of the answer away. But I am interested to see what a lay person's response would be. Your answers will help prepare me for a lecture I must lead regarding The Three Revelations of God. Be careful in your answers. It is a trick question(s). I don't want to get anyone wrapped up in heresy.
Peace, ~~Alex
Fr Alex, I would sy there is no difference.
Geoff, I am by no means a religious person. I'm unlike you, Fr. Alex or my brother. But something Armstrong said stuck me. She claims religion takes work, sometimes hard work. I believe her.
The crux of the biscuit is the apostrophe.
The doctrine of the Trinity is encapsulated in Matthew 28:19, where Jesus instructs the apostles: "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit."
The parallelism of the Father, the Son, and the Spirit is not unique to Matthew’s Gospel, but appears elsewhere in the New Testament (e.g., 2 Cor. 13:14, Heb. 9:14), as well as in the writings of the earliest Christians, who clearly understood them in the sense that we do today—that the Father, the Son, and the Spirit are three divine persons who are one divine being (God).
There is a scene in Repo Man where the parents of the lead character are watching a TV preacher, to whom they've already sent their son's college savings.
I've always been there.
I don't believe any religious stuff until it's told to me on TV by a guy with fabulous hair and an 800 number.
Alex, you seem charismatic enough. Are you ready for your close up in the name of Jaaaaaysus? It'll give you more credibility ... with me, at least
It's like a shamrock.
Angry Priest I guess refers to me? I am a Catholic, but not a priest as of yet. This spring, hopefully I will gain another minor order. This time around - sub-deacon. A minor order with Major Effects.
Anon 2:09 PM, which Bible are you using? Did you mean 2 Cor 13:13? I know those quotes but that still doesn't help most people. When you say "three divine persons," do you mean three individuals or three distinct personnas of being?
It really is a trick question. If anyone on this Earth can give you an answer, you must not believe that person.
There are Councils, Dogmas, and Creeds, but again - there is nothing truly concrete. In a round-about way - there is one. But it isn't that simple. If you preach or believe in three - then you are in heresy.
The best description, at least for me, describing The Trinity or The Triune God is the economy of The Godhead. God has revealed himself to us in three distinct ways. He is the Creator - 1.) God. He becomes the Creator when he speaks The Word - Jesus and the Creations of God. He is also revealed through His Son - as 2.) Jesus. And he is also revealed through us by his descending 3.) Holy Spirit. It gets more complex when you talk about spirations. The Holy Spirit generated from the Father and the Son. (But the Orthodox say The Holy Spirit generated from the Father and spirated to and through the Son. They have some hang-up with Jesus having two natures [Divine and Human] in one person.)
Anyway, I am off the track. This really is a trick question. All we can almost be sure of, is that there IS NOT three Gods. We, as Catholics, DO NOT worship three Gods. There is one. Revealed to us in three different ways.
And Bernie, believe me, I can testify. I am just like you, Geoff, and the others. There are some that are holier than me. But I AM A SINNER. I am not perfect as my Holy Father is perfect. But I can say it takes work. And I can testify that I am (SLOWLY) letting God's Grace transform me. There is still plenty more work to be done.
So I advise, be holy unsatisfied. Don't be satisfied with what you have. Don't sit on your hands. The Saints had no more and some had a lot less than you. They didn't have any special talents. They just had a good work ethic and a lot of love. That came with perserverance. Use them as your role models. And be unsatisfied with your progress until you can share in communion with God in the beatific vision (of holiness.)
Peace, ~~Alex
(nice picture, eh?)
Father Alex, do me a favor and ignore the "angry priest" slur. Whenever I see that term, the comment will be deleted. Some sicko posts it nearly every day, sometimes to comments you've made days ago.
Unfortunately, the price of an unmoderated blog is trolls who have no interest in the subject, but are instead trying to provoke people. Ignore them. They will be deleted.
Interesting discussion:
I work from the following:
We are all social, and our challenge is how we live together? The Bible and other religious texts attempt to help us answer the question.
Unfortunately, the answer often eludes us. I do know that as as a teacher of business and economics, business is a social process. If it is, then all of our interactions among us, is social, and God has commanded us to live in harmony. Unfortunately, that seems hard to do.
Best regards,
Michael
Fascinating discussion.
Takes me back to the whole "logic Of God" as put forth by Aquinas.
The problem for me is that too many people have commercialized God, and made the concept a "for Profit" venture while operating as a "non profit" entity.
Gives the whole Gospel story of Jesus tossing tables in the temple a whole new spin, doesn't it?
Alex; I used the New American Bible.
Anon,
Do yourself a favor, if you don't already own one, get a R.S.V. or a N.R.S.V. - Revised Standard Version and New Revised Standard Version. The only N.A.B. - New American Bible - worth anything is the one by the name of The Catholic Study Bible. It has good footnotes and an 800+ page introduction. The N.A.B. takes too many liberties in translation. God bless the U.S.C.C.B. - they own the rights to the N.A.B. We are the only English speaking country that uses the N.A.B.
For example,
In the R.S.V. - "Moses listened with uncircumsized ears."
In the N.R.S.V. - "Moses listened but was not capable of understanding due to his lack of knowledge."
In the N.A.B. - "Moses did not know."
Good luck in your progress and your Bible studies to everyone.
Peace, ~~Alex
I never much cared for the holy ghost. The other two I can live with.
Interesting conversation. I plan on reading Armstrong's book. As someone who was raised Catholic, transitioned to Buddhism, then became a Baptist before coming to accept that your every act is a reflection of how you see God-head as it surrounds you, I am reminded of Gandhi's quote --
“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” – Mahatma Gandi.
And unfortunately, I think many have settled for the easy route when it comes to religion by taking their religious tome of preference as the (forgive the pun) gospel truth. The reality is that humans do not have the capacity to understand something that is beyond human.
Faith does take work. There is no easy out as in "it says so in the Bible". There is only how you treat each person you encounter each day -- as if they are as worthy as you of compassion, understanding and love.
And occasional failure to do exactly this is as inevitable as occasional success.
Post a Comment