About Me

My photo
Nazareth, Pa., United States

Monday, December 21, 2009

What's Wrong With Senate's Health Care Bill

Firedoglake, hardly known for conservative views, lists ten reasons why the Senate bill should be killed.

1) Forces you to pay up to 8% of your income to private insurance corporations — whether you want to or not.

2) If you refuse to buy the insurance, you’ll have to pay penalties of up to 2% of your annual income to the IRS.

3) Many will be forced to buy poor-quality insurance they can’t afford to use, with $11,900 in annual out-of-pocket expenses over and above their annual premiums.

4) Massive restriction on a woman’s right to choose, designed to trigger a challenge to Roe v. Wade in the Supreme Court.

5) Paid for by taxes on the middle class insurance plan you have right now through your employer, causing them to cut back benefits and increase co-pays.

6) Many of the taxes to pay for the bill start now, but most Americans won’t see any benefits — like an end to discrimination against those with preexisting conditions — until 2014 when the program begins.

7) Allows insurance companies to charge people who are older 300% more than others.

8) Grants monopolies to drug companies that will keep generic versions of expensive biotech drugs from ever coming to market.

9) No re-importation of prescription drugs, which would save consumers $100 billion over 10 years.

10) The cost of medical care will continue to rise, and insurance premiums for a family of four will rise an average of $1,000 a year — meaning in 10 years, your family’s insurance premium will be $10,000 more annually than it is right now
.

29 comments:

Anonymous said...

Oh yeah, and some of us have a serious problem with public funding and/or government requirements to supply abortion - the holiest sacrament of the left.

rylock. said...

I would ask you to post this then also:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2009/12/jane_hamshers_10_reaons_to_kil.html

Same format.

Anonymous said...

Where is the outrage. This will cost us more than any of us currently know. The level of care will drop when the providers know that the governement will pay them no matter what. Oh yeah, your payroll deductions will include serious charges for Obamacare. Please somebody, tell us how we, the majority will do better with this rip off of the American public?? Oh, by the way, I don't want to hear some liberal dialogue of we all need to help each other!! Where in the constitution does it guarantee health care????

rylock. said...

You will see your costs increase because of this bill? That's interesting.

Especially because that's not what highly respected health economists and the CBO think:

http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Columns/2009/December/~/media/CC9EB727BC494A1BB5FE01E9B71EA036.gif

Anonymous said...

CBO cannot be expected to be credible here. The hidden costs and razzle dazzle are impossible to calculate (e.g. hundreds of millions to buy Landrieu, Nelson, Dodd, et. al.). More than the normal horse trading was done here. The entire Senate portion was written in secret.

Anonymous said...

I PAY 11% now...even 8% is better.

rylock. said...

I would love to see an credible, non-partisan organization score this bill and have significantly different results.

The facts are that this bill is projected to save consumers money and that it will significantly reduce the deficit over the next 20 years (to the tune of over $770 billion).

The CBO is the best, and only game in town. If you have done your own math and claim that it rivals the credibility of the most-trusting analysis-giving institution in Washington (one that Democrats, Republicans, and Independents use), I would love to see it.

Bernie O'Hare said...

Rylock,

CBO is authoritative, but only for short periods of time. That's its drawback.

Firedoglake has passionately advocated the public option, but does not see much good about this Senate bill. She has links to essays that back up each of her ten points.

Of course, for her work, she's been slammed at DailyKos. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/12/21/817469/-Jane-Hamshers-staff

Here's why the Kos Krew support anything proposed: "Because I'm a Democrat who supports a Democratic president who I helped elect. And if you're not on board with that, at any time, on any issue?

Eat me."


Partidans like that make you and Jonathan look like statesmen.

Anonymous said...

Bernie,
What do you care about health care? You're an obsessive public nose picker. Then you touch handles and other people, spreading your germs!

Your opinions are about as accurate as your county council predictions.

Anonymous said...

Rylock, thanks for showing us Bernie plagiarized this lol

Bernie O'Hare said...

Awww, do I make you angwy?

Bernie O'Hare said...

"Rylock, thanks for showing us Bernie plagiarized this lol"

The very first word in my post indicates where I got these ten reasons and I link to my source as well. Now, I'm assuming that most of my readerrs have a fourth grade education and understand things like attribution. You are obviously an exception.

Anonymous said...

I don't know about you guys, but I do know this. Big Pharma alone dropped $199 million to oppose this bill.

Think about that. Why would a group of corporations with a captive group of consumers spend that sort of money if there wasn't a chance that having a regulatory bill fail would result in their making even more money? To save democracy? To fight socialism? Right - you betcha. Take another hit of the crack pipe.

I know, I've heard all their rationalizations - we have to fund our research - when the simple fact is that the amount of money poured into R&D has nothing to do with "serving" their fellow man, but in finding those drugs that they can convince Doctors to prescribe for the largest number of people.

If the Pharmas didn't spend the obscene amounts that they do to grease physician's palms and for their so-called sales meetings (like the one I attended once in West Palm Beach where the sales reps spent 3 hours "training" and the rest of the day playing - including dancing an evening away to the tunes of a well-known commercial rock band that you and I would happily drop $100 a head to buy a ticket to see a similar performance) and if their goal was to NOT rape the consumer (like charging $30.00 a day for pills that cost them 20 cents to manufacture), but actually attempt to live up to their so-called "mission statements" (which never list their true motivation) then perhaps I could buy their story.

And before one of those wearing the right-side blinders on tells me that their goal is to provide a return for their stockholders, then explain to me why their definition of "stockholder" has little to do with those of us owning stock in 401K's - ever notice that individual stockholders have essentially been cut out of all decisions (ever try to get the microphone at a stockholder's meeting)?

They've managed to buy off OUR congresscritters because the majority of us - for TOO DAMN LONG - just didn't care. Those of us who witnessed the prosperity of the 50's and 60's were regaled with the explanation that the good ole USA had to be "the best" because we were the brightest, the hardest-working, and the most moral - when, in fact, the reason we were so prosperous in the decades after WW2 was that there was no other industrial power left standing at the conclusion of the war to compete with us. Now that the tables have turned around, suddenly we blame "liberals" - we blame folks who believed the empty promises offered to them by the corporations - work hard for 30 years and you get a pension - until they discovered they could cancel the pensions with nary more than a whimper of protest.

I listen to the left and the right and the center scream that their politicians ignore them. Why shouldn't they ignore us? We ignored what was happening for 50 years. Voter turnouts are obscenely dismal. So few folks care about THEIR government that our newspapers don't even bother to cover local political races.

The government doesn't work because we're too lazy. And if we're not going to step up and play our role in government, the corporate elite are more than happy to see that the laws are written to favor them. That's where we are now - and I don't see it changing anytime soon.

Anonymous said...

The Republicans and big Pharma made this happen. By not working with the Democrat majority they helped the big drug companies to fashion a Bill that will ensure them huge $$ and allow Republicans to do what they do best, attack! They are not very good at governance but they know how to attack and misdirect. Now if there was a vote to repeal Civil Rights or take away reproductive choice for women the Republicans would all sign up.

This is the legacy Mr. Dent has to defend.

rylock. said...

Bernie,

Why do you choose to site that Daily Kos unknown blogger post rather than the one that I gave to you?

Ezra Klein sites the actual language of the legislation when he refutes Jane Hamsher's accusations.

I was just hoping that you could throw some actual policy on this page, because -- if nothing else -- Hamsher's claims are very misleading.

If you just missed it before, here's that link again:
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2009/12/jane_hamshers_10_reaons_to_kil.htm

If you'd like to challenge any of Ezra's claims, I would promote that as well.

Coming from an ardent public option supporter, I'd just like the truth about this bill to be somewhere on this blog.

Anonymous said...

The stocks for the insurance companies are rising like crazy. It's horrible. It's a gift to the insurance companies. We're going to be more screwed than we were before. The country is doomed.

rylock. said...

The insurance companies definitely are going to have so many regulations put on them that they're certainly not happy, but I also wouldn't say that they're pissed about the way this legislation turned out in the Senate.

But to actually understand the stock market and the insurance industry, I'd suggest actually looking into the numbers and not just looking at the up or down arrows.

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/12/insurance-stocks-rise-on-news-of-health.html

Bernie O'Hare said...

"Why do you choose to site that Daily Kos unknown blogger post rather than the one that I gave to you?

Rylock, What the hekk are yiou saying. You cited a WP blog that disagress w/ Firedoglake, and that's fine. Do I have to take that and post it as a separate blog or something?

The DailyKos reference is no unknown blogger. It's Tim Russo, who apparently considers himself Ohio's best blogger because he says things like "Eat me" and wishes Firedoglake editor Jane hamsher would blow him.

His clever argument to support this bill is "Hey, I'm a Democrat, damn it!"

Bernie O'Hare said...

"The Republicans and big Pharma made this happen. By not working with the Democrat majority they helped the big drug companies to fashion a Bill that will ensure them huge $$"

I see. Demos pass a bill opposesd by every R Senator and it is somehow the Republicans' fault? Amazing logic. Are you perchance related to that kooky Ohio blogger?

Anonymous said...

It's a huge win for big insurance. No portability. They get to maintain their fiefdoms. No tort reform. Lawyers own the Obama administration.

Dent and Rs will run against it in November and promise to overturn the unpopular legislation. Boehner is your next Speaker of the House. It's almost too easy.

Anonymous said...

Bernie,

This bill and the process that led to its passage are simply indefensible. It is interesting that some of those who attempt to do so here choose to do so anonymously.
I think the deal making was shameful, perhaps that was to be expected of politicians but the press coverage or lack of it is even worse. The public good has been betrayed yet again by a very partisan press. They have allowed their own political allegiances to corrupt their reporting.

Scott Armstrong

Anonymous said...

The Dents must be jumping for joy to hear that their constituents are screwed and the country is moving faster down the path to the end..but their newly acquired insurance stocks are more valuable.

Anonymous said...

I expect Scott would have us all listen to the blovating of Hannitu and Limbaugh, as the way to get "non-partisan" news. No thanks.

rylock. said...

"Rylock, What the hekk are yiou saying. You cited a WP blog that disagress w/ Firedoglake, and that's fine. Do I have to take that and post it as a separate blog or something? "

I was just asking that, in addition to the FDL language, you put up actual parts of the legislation to either back up that claim or refute it.

If you look into them, while not untrue, most are very misleading based on the wording after referencing the legislation.

There are either explanations or proof that, while not perfect, it's a significant step forward for about 8 out of those 10.

The two about medication are pretty unarguable, though. It's a shame that deal was cut. However, if it wasn't, there would be a big "?" over whether or not health reform would be passed if they didn't make that deal. Further proving the enormous lobbying problem in Washington.

Once again, you are posting misleading bullet points that are not completely true.

I'm going to get you to be 100% truthful one of these days!

Love,
"The Eternal Optimist."

rylock. said...

"The DailyKos reference is no unknown blogger. It's Tim Russo, who apparently considers himself Ohio's best blogger because he says things like "Eat me" and wishes Firedoglake editor Jane hamsher would blow him.

His clever argument to support this bill is "Hey, I'm a Democrat, damn it!""


And that's my point! Tim Russo is relatively unknown, though, no matter whether or not he touts himself as "Ohio's best blogger."

I'm just saying that Ezra Klein has some credibility, citing actual legislation -- something that Tim nor Jane does -- and explaining it.

I'd post it, but my blog unfortunately doesn't get as much traffic as yours does. So, I'll have to hope that people just read the comments, I guess.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2009/12/jane_hamshers_10_reaons_to_kil.html

Bernie O'Hare said...

Rylock,

What I am posting is the critique of a public option advocate who hates the Senate bill. I make no representation that her claim is either truthful or untruthful, but I found her opposition quite interesting.

Similarly, I make no representation that the WP blog is truthful or untruthful.

I do appreciate your own links and am reading them.

Bernie O'Hare said...

Rylock,

I'll post the link as a separate blog because most readers only scan the comments, even though this is where I learn the most.

rylock. said...

"I make no representation that her claim is either truthful or untruthful. "

I agree! But isn't that part of the problem? You may not be "lying" about anything, but sometimes you push false information by not making a representation.

"I'll post the link as a separate blog because most readers only scan the comments, even though this is where I learn the most."

Thanks! Me too.

Even more interesting reading: The "creator" of the public option urges progressives to support the Senate Bill.

http://www.tnr.com/blog/the-treatment/why-i-still-believe-bill

Anonymous said...

Speaking of Govt Healthcare, with Medicare/Medicaid... they lead the provider world of DENIED claims. Does anyone really think a total government takeover would be best?? You won't be able to appeal your claim, you won't be able to "switch" providers and you will be a criminal if you don't have a policy!!