Donations Sought For Allentown's Homeless

On Saturday, I told you that the rocket scientists at the Lehigh Conference of Churches decided to "street" (evict) about 30 homeless people who had sought refuge from the Blizzard of 2016 at their warming shelter. That story was picked up by WFMZ-TV69 and The Morning Call. Allentown Mayor Edwin "Fed Ed" Pawlowski and Conference of Churches Exec Director downplayed the incident. "I don't know why they are concerned and complaining," Fed Ed incredulously told a Channel 69 reporter. But there was no repeat of the streeting on Sunday. That's because Allentown City Council President Ray O'Connell made it very clear to the Conference that its behavior was unacceptable.

One of those upset by what happened is MJ Muller, wife of Lehigh County Exec Tom Muller. Although this is never publicized, she is one of the tireless volunteers at Mary's Shelter, which provides transitional housing for pregnant women. Her husband has told me more than once that he thinks I qualify.

MJ has sent this email to her friends, and I will share it here.

Good afternoon friends!! Most of you know I work at a homeless shelter in Bethlehem, but today I am calling on you to help out with another special and much needed cause. I am sure you have read about the warming shelter in Allentown where approximately 40 - 50 homeless people are able to stay warm and safe over night. During the day is a different story. This group must leave the shelter during the day and return again in the evening. We are looking for the following items to help these folks: Warm socks for both men and women, personal care items must be new not used, cases of water, snacks and non perishables that do not need refrigeration or heating. These can be crackers, granola bars, applesauce cups, pudding, Jello, dry cereal, pretzels, graham crackers, fruit cups, etc. You get the idea. They can not accept home cooked items, so please do not bring those kinds of items. Any donations need to be dropped off at the Lehigh Valley Conference of Churches facility at 1031 Linden Street, Allentown, PA 18102. Please call before you go to drop any donations. The contact number is 610-433-6421. If you would like to indicate that your donation should go directly to the warming shelter which is located on Martin Luther King Parkway, please do so. This is going to be a very long and bitter cold winter. Your help is greatly needed and appreciated. Please do not drop any donations at the actual shelter on MLK Parkway. No one is there during the day to accept your items.

I get her point, but suggest a monetary donation to Zion's Liberty Bell Church. That's where the homeless went after being evicted by the Lehigh Conference of Churches.

LV Street Medicine: "Sreeting" Homeless In Face of Blizzard

Everyone at Zion had a sandwich for the road when
they returned to the warming center. 

On Saturday, I told you that the Lehigh Conference of Churches "streeted" about 30 human beings who had spent the night at their Martin Luther King Blvd warming station. At the time this occurred, winds were blowing at about 20 mph and there were already about nine inches of snow on the ground. Fortunately, these souls were taken in by the Zion's Liberty Bell UCC Church, where they remained and were fed until it was time to trudge back to the warming station.

Corinne and Brett Feldman are certified physician assistants whose vocation is to provide what they call street medicine for the homeless. They also have a blog called Street Medicine Lehigh Valley, and make some interesting observations about the shut-out, in a post entitled "Whose Job Is It Anyway?"

First, though we all know that the freezing point for water is 32 degrees, but human flesh can freeze at 40. The Code Blue designation used by Lehigh County Emergency Management is set at 32 degrees, and should probably be higher. The LC Emergency Management website fails to list the Code Blue designation, even when the temp is below 32 degrees.

Second, the Lehigh Conference of Churches, which receives public funding and claimed to have plans for these kinds of contingencies, needs to be held accountable. But we are all accountable.

In times of trial when human lives and dignity are on the line it is ALL of our responsibility to care for those in need. If you’ve accepted the public commission to care for the most vulnerable, you can’t abandon that post in the worst of times. At the same time, if you haven’t accepted that post in an official matter you aren’t absolved of your moral responsibility. This weekend in Allentown that is exactly what happened. Although not bound by grants or funding, Zion Church opened their doors to those most in need of sheltering from danger, just as they did in 1777 when they “housed” the Liberty Bell, keeping it safe from the British during the Revolutionary War (www.libertybellchurch.org). Let it be a lesson learned; that true responsibility comes from within.

Lehigh Conference of Churches Sends Homeless Into Blizzard

Two years ago, I told you that the Lehigh Conference of Churches are nothing less than modern pharisees, especially when it comes to the homeless. Today, it proved my point. In a storm that is on track to eclipse the Blizzard of 1996, the warming shelter run by the Lehigh Conference of Churches closed its doors at 7:30 am and sent the individuals who had stayed there overnight out into the storm, in 20 mph winds with no bus service. Many of those people made their way by foot to Zion UCC for breakfast, which committed volunteers came to prepare and serve. Pastor Bob Stevens, upon learning that the shelter would not be open during the day, made the call to keep the church open to provide a safe place for people to stay out of the elements. 30 people stayed there, today, and would have to brave the elements, again, to get back to the shelter in order to have a place to sleep tonight.

This is unacceptable.

What can you do?

1. Follow and support Jubilee Breakfast Ministry at Zion UCC.

2. Send an email to the Executive Director of the Conference of Churches and tell him that it is not ACCEPTABLE that he risked HUMAN LIVES today by throwing homeless people onto the streets in this blizzard: jfelch@lehighchurches.org

3. Go to their FB page and give them a bad review for this inexcusable behavior
https://www.facebook.com/The-Lehigh-Conference-of-Churches…/

4. Find out if your church is a member and demand answers. They will not address their mismanagement as long as they still have strong financial support and as long as member churches are silent.

Allentown Homeless Fundraiser - "We Need a Miracle"

Eugene McDuffie with Allentown's homeless

Allentown resident Eugene McDuffie wants to reduce the Queen City's homelessness problem. He'd like to establish a community welcome center for the homeless, but before I tell you about that, let me tell you about him. Unlike most on the "First Lady's Commission to End Chronic Homelessness," he was homeless himself for several years, and knows what it's like. He knows what works and what does not  Let me tell you his story.

McDuffie's Story

I've always heard that being homeless adds years to you life. Eugene McDuffie, who looks a decade younger than his 55 years, must be an exception. His life includes several years on the streets of NYC, where at age 14 he ran away from alcoholic and violent parents. He also dropped out of school and slipped into drug abuse. For several years, he slept on park benches very similar to the one on which I interviewed him at Bucky Boyle Park. If it was cold, he'd climb into a dumpster, hoping he'd wake up before a truck came.

To survive, he ate out of garbage cans. On his 16th birthday, he recalled seeing a man walk by with a hamburger and just toss it into a garbage can. "That man's garbage was my birthday dinner that day," he told me.

During blackouts, he'd slit his wrists. "I just didn't care about life anymore," he admitted. But somebody cared about him. Thanks to Teen Challenge, he turned his life around. After learning how to eat regular food again, he got his GED and also spent several years at a bible institute. He got a college degree in psychology, located to Allentown, and worked at three different jobs to provide for his two daughters. He beamed with pride as he described them.

But something was missing.

Allentown's Homeless: "We Need a Miracle"

Mark Matthews was a shopping mall Santa Claus

In addition to writing his story, Missing Love Child, he's been spending a lot of time dealing with Allentown's gang problem. Kids are getting involved with the Latin Kings, the Bloods or the Crips as early as age 11. He has also been volunteering at the jail, where he has taken a religious message to men and women alike. "Every one of those women told me they are homeless," he reported. "We're paying a lot of money for women to stay in jail only to have them come back again."

According to McDuffie, Allentown has done a good job of making some downtown buildings look better. "But the only people who are going to come to this area are the rich," he noted. He cited his own experience at The Hamilton, where a friend recently treated him to a lunch that cost nearly $20.

He'd like to see Allentown use the same energy for its disadvantaged that has been used for the wealthy. Specifically, he'd like to get a vacant factory building and convert it into a community center that could also provide transitional housing, especially for women.

"We need a miracle," he flatly stated.

His calls to State Representatives Mike Schlossberg and Peter Schweyer have gone unanswered. He hasn't bothered with Fed Ed. "He seems a little busy right now," McDuffie noted.

Government is doing what it does best - ignoring those who lack the means to make campaign contributions.

The Lehigh Conference of Churches and Allentown Rescue Mission have demonstrated pretty clearly that they ignore those they are supposed to help as well. Allentown Rescue Mission has no facilities at all for women, and the Lehigh Conference of Churches buries applicants in paperwork until they just give up.

There has to be a better way.

This is what homeless advocates like Diane Teti and Chris and Amy Cocca have been saying for the past two winters.

Fundraiser on October 17

In order to do anything, they need to form a 501c3. But to do that, they have to raise $400 for the filing fee. To that end, McDuffie has scheduled a banquet to help the homeless on Saturday, October 17, from 1 pm to 5 pm, at the Ramada Inn in Whitehall.

If you'd like to attend, or just send a contribution, you can send a check to Eugene McDuffie, 124 1/2 W. Liberty St, Allentown, PA 18102.

In contrast to the misrepresentations made by Miked Fleck about his transition committees, this is NOT a tax deductible contribution. It will be once enough money is raised to form a 501c3.

Stories of Allentown's Homeless

Mark Matthews (bearded) with homeless
advocate Eugene McDuffie 

Though this September is warmer than usual in the Lehigh Valley, we all know that cold temperatures are coming, along with snow, ice and wind. As icy fingers beckon this year's Winter, Allentown's fearless leaders are no further along in combating chronic homelessness than they were two years ago. Government is useless. The Allentown Rescue Mission is a temporary solution, and exists only for men. The Lehigh Conference of Churches, which should be renamed the Lehigh Conference of Hypocrites, excels mostly at drumming up money. The purpose of this series is to introduce you to Allentown's homeless.

Most experts will try to tell you that the homeless are different, not like us. The Lehigh Conference of Churches Hypocrites, for example, commissioned a study to describe them as people who suffer from substance abuse or mental disorders. How they could reach that conclusion without knowing how many people are actually homeless is beyond me. I question whether the purpose of these studies is to ease their own consciences about the shitty job they do in helping their fellow man,

While it certainly seems logical to conclude that many of the homeless might have these problems, the two I met this weekend are no different than your neighbors. They might actually be a little better.

Mark Matthews, a Southern Lehigh grad, camps out on Race Street with four others. This is not far from the Allentown Rescue Mission, and is right across the street from the bus station. The owner of the vacant factory building has let them stay there provided they keep the place clean. They periodically pick up garbage along the block between Linden and Hamilton. No alcohol or drugs are permitted.

Matthews carries a business card that Allentown Police Officer Christopher Hendricks gave him. It contains his social security number, date of birth and other information on the back. He shows this card to other officers when attempt to roust him. Some are fine after seeing the card. Others say they don't care and will arrest him next time they see him. That has not happened. That card has probably kept him out of jail.

Sitting on a cushion, Matthews is very likely eligible for full disability. He has suffered from chronic bursitis since his teen years. After graduating from high school, he began working for North Pole Photo, which brings Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny to many of the malls. He became its artistic director, and played the Jolly Old Elf every year.

Unfortunately, he developed an abscess from the weight on his lap. He tells me it's inoperable because it is located near major arteries. His career as Santa ended prematurely, and there is little else he is able to do physically.

Jonathan Ward has only been in Allentown for three months. At age 22, he's been on the streets for the past six years. He handed me a business card indicating that he is a self-taught photographer and videographer. In fact, he took the picture of McDuffie with Matthews, which is much better than the photographs I took.

Ward was starting a job that very night at Amazon

A woman named Donna stops by from time to time to provide food. She gave Matthews a bomber jacket and got a blanket for Ward. Before he was camped out here, Matthews tells me that Diane Teti gave him a tent, which is being used by two other homeless guys living elsewhere.

As they told their stories, sparrows nearby would join us periodically to eat the breadcrumbs these guys left for them.

Matthews has been homeless for two years, so he went through both of the last two brutal winters. The Allentown Rescue Mission took him in last December. Though the Mission limits housing stays to 30 days, it was extended last year until April 1 because of the harsh weather.

"Do you know what day April 1 was?" he asked.

No.

"April 1 was Good Friday. This religious group started throwing people out on Good Friday. They even threw a few out on Easter Sunday."

They both laughed at the forms-ridden Lehigh Conference of Churches, which refuses to supply basic things like work boots to people who lack identification cards

Matthews said it gets pretty wild on Saturday nights because there are nightclubs in the area. He talked about a recent Saturday night in which three women pulled into the bus station barking lot and urinated. When they turned around they were embarrassed to see five homeless guys, across the street, grinning at them. Matthews said he and his group applauded, and the ladies took a few bows and left.

WFMZ-TV69 Casts Spotlight on Allentown's Homeless

As homeless advocates Amy Cocca and Diane Teti so eloquently stated at Allentown City Council on Wednesday night, many of us are just one or two paychecks away from being homeless ourselves. Around 600 of the school district's children are estimated to be homeless. It's a harsh reality in the Land of NIZ, where the governing body of Allentown had no clue what to do when confronted face-to-face with the problem. It's a distressing sign of a government that has failed on so many levels. News accounts of the meeting reflect a failure in the mainstream media, too. They pretended it didn't happen.

To its credit, WFMZ-TV69 has followed up with a story describing the problem, noting the 58-family waiting list at the 6th Street Shelter and the bedbugs at the Abandon All Hope Center.

Once upon a time, Chris Cocca  [check out his blog, Rad Infinitum] was the Director of Mission at First Presbyterian Church of Allentown. But he sinned. He stood with CUNA in their unsuccessful attempt to get a true Community Benefits Agreement from Fed Ed from the Neighborhood Millionaire Improvement Zone. That's when Alan Jennings, another member of that congregation, pulled him aside one day before Sunday school for a "get on the same page" lecture.

"I party with JB [Reilly] and the Mayor," Jennings told Cocca. "I play poker with them every week." Cocca felt he was being told that the poor and homeless will get by, like they always do.

Chris continues.

"You know who else is a member there? Jack Felch. And Scott Fainor. I begged then-pastor Tony Sundermeier to bring these people together and get something done. Tony Sundermeier, by the way, was the Boy Pastor so fond of pointing out what a good friend Ed Pawlowski was. Ed actually called Tony to complain about my public criticisms of the administration, according to Tony (who now pastors an even richer church in Atlanta).

"My Jesus is the homeless, marginalized Jesus. Like I said, I don't work there anymore."

Some Sad Facts About Allentown's Homeless Problem

Chris Cocca has set up a GoFundMe site for Allentown's homeless. Here's what it says:

Where do the homeless go when the temperatures turn to freezing in our area?  Contrary to common belief, our area shelters are running at or close to capacity and when 4 people froze to death on the streets several years ago, the generous parish of St. Paul's Church at S. 8th and Walnut, opened their doors and created Safe Haven.  It offered a blanket and a spot on the floor to get out of the cold but with the limited budget of this small church, little more.

When overcrowding at this ministry was brought to light (over 40 people crowding into a space that should house 25), the City of Allentown’s Commission to End Chronic Homelessness formed a Seasonal Sheltering committee to create a community solution to emergency shelter for the 2014/2015 winter . This committee involved existing shelters, homeless service providers, street medicine clinics, faith-based communities, and homeless advocates with a goal of find a solution to the overflow of the established year round shelters that would provide accommodations AND services to help move people out of homelessness .  

This shelter will be open to men, women, couples and families with no one turned away.  In Allentown currently, the Salvation Army and the 6th Street Shelter (women/children/ families) are full and both have a waitlist.  The Rescue Mission, which is only available to men, just added 18 beds because they have housed a record number of homeless men this summer.  And as a further indication of the need, Allentown School District saw almost 700 homeless children last year.

This shelter will not only finally give us an opportunity to officially quantify the problem of homelessness in our area (which rose by 21% rather than decreasing like nationwide numbers) but it will also facilitate getting people back on their feet faster with scheduled case managers and a consistent intake process allowing each individual to be known by name and their unique needs.  In addition to blankets, there will be cots, meals  and non-uniformed supervisory staff, with accommodations for up to 50 comfortably.

The Board of Alliance Hall of Allentown has offered the gym at their 6th & Chew building to serve as the winter shelter.  The Board of The Lehigh Conference of Churches has offered its staff to provide operational support but this Emergency Winter Shelter is being considered a community effort and what’s needed now is the funding to make this winter shelter happen.

The estimated costs for the November 1st through April operation is $140-160,000.  Several of these costs are one time start up costs such as the cots.  As stated, the majority is being solicited from businesses and organizations but we hope that each of you sees the importance of keeping people from freezing on the streets of Allentown this winter.

Though I pretty much despise the hypocrisy displayed Lehigh Conference of Chruches last year, I'll pitch in. I don't have much money, but will fast every Monday and kick in $5.

Can you help?

Updated 10:30 am: The GoFundMe site is up to $570, with the most recent sum coming from Lisa Lockley, "In memory of my uncle norman markham murdered on the streets of allentown while homeless."

Our Modern Pharisees

Pharisees were actually a reform movement in Judaism. They stood up for the little guy being oppressed by the aristocratic and priestly classes. But they are depicted as the bad guys in the New Testament.  We Gentiles got them mixed up with the Sadducees, the Old Testament equivalent of the Lehigh Valley Partnership. Today, both Pharisees and Sadducees are synonymous with hypocrisy. This story is about a group of modern day Pharisees, right here in the Lehigh Valley.

You've seen them, especially if you go to church. You might even be one of those phonies who makes ostentatious displays of religious ritual or fine theological points, without bothering to do any good works yourself. One recent Pharisee includes Vic Mazziotti's pastor, who was quick to condemn same sex benefits, but has been curiously silent about Allentown's recent homeless crisis. This Bishop-in-training is par for the course. Lehigh County Conference of Churches Exec Director Jack Felch is a Pharisee, too. So are some  officials in the Allentown Urban Growth Regime.

The recent homelessness crisis makes this clear.

Fegley and Teti

Diane Teti, who has advocated for the homeless for the past year, has probably accomplished more in that time than the numerous nonprofits and government agencies who proudly herald themselves as the safety net for our voiceless. She, along with Allentown Brew Works' Richard Fegley and Chris Cocca, have publicly shamed the Urban Growth Regime by casting a very public spotlight on one of local government's biggest failures. They have brought several homeless survivors to meetings, letting government officials and nonprofits get a good look at the people they'd prefer to brush under the rug.

As temperatures plunge, that's getting harder to do.

Although Fegley is passionate and sometimes gets emotional, Teti is fairly nonconfrontational. She just wants to help people, as you can see from video of a recent Commissioners' meeting. One of the people she brought has slipped through the cracks of the system, and is unable to examine his own file in Lehigh County's overly bureaucratic system of human services.

Some groups, like the Allentown Rescue Mission, have actually appreciated the attention. They do have rules, but Program Director Rob Romig explained them, and they are relatively innocuous. They helped 760 homeless men last year, and do not force them to go to chapel.

"We don't make you pray," he explained.

Lehigh County Exec Tom Muller is another person who has tried to help. Unlike Mayor Edwin Pawlowski, who skipped out on a City Council meeting dealing with homelessness, Muller was there, listened, and prevailed on the local Y to open their doors for homeless during this emergency.

Not bad for someone derided as a country club Republican.

Commissioner Scott Ott blamed the homeless, to some extent, for being unwilling to use places like Allentown Rescue Mission. You could call that heartless on his part, but it's no secret that many homeless are mentally ill and exercise poor judgment. So I think he was being realistic. After listening to homeless advocates last week, he went to Allentown's most desperate shelter, Safe Haven, along with fellow Commissioners Lisa Scheller and Vic Mazziotti.

Despite all these positive signs, some in the Urban Growth regime are angry.

Allentown's Managing Director, Francis Dougherty, tried to deny there's a problem at all in a memo circulated among City Council members. He derided Teti as a "competing interest group", insisted that homelessness is actually a County problem. He also objected to the scorn expressed at the City's Homeless Commission, whose committee heads meet every month and basically go round and round.

The hypocrisy does not stop with modern Pharisee Francis Dougherty.

The Lehigh County Conference of Churches has been shamed by this crisis into opening up a gym as a warming center, but only on code blue days. Their Executive Director, Dr. Jack Felch, wants everyone to send him money. He used the warming center as an excuse to seek donations. In addition, he just had to take some potshots at Teti's group, as noted by Allentown blogger Michael Molovinsky. Like any good Pharisee, Felch praises himself while condemning others.

You have most likely seen press coverage concerning the plight of the homeless during this recent spell of dangerously cold weather. We have chosen not to participate in public debates about how "others" should solve this problem, particularly since the Conference has for the past decade been doing the heavy lifting when it comes to stabilizing the lives of "the least of these, my brothers and sisters" without the need for shining a media spotlight on that work. Instead of being divisive and derisive, we joined with partners who are problem solvers. Our initial plan is to open the Alliance Hall gym only when needed for emergency Code Blue weather conditions. Funding for this initiative is not guaranteed. Staffing details have not been determined.

One of Michael's readers, BB, sums it up quite nicely.

Wow. Where to start? Obviously this church commentary is riddled with sarcasm and passive aggressive jabs at caring activists. Who wrote this? From "plight of the homeless" "heavy lifting" referring to homeless people as "the least"? Choosing not to participate in public debates when cold temperatures dictate a life or death sentence is far less than honorable. Personally, I would be ashamed. Implying the media was involved for any reason other than to shine a spotlight on a dire situation is just plain asinine. This is a perfect example of everything that is wrong with our democracy in the year 2014. Caring citizens petition their government to help improve a situation, and they are stifled, insulted, and oppressed by the gatekeepers, people with the power to actually do something. Better yet, let's imply they are crackpots on the fringe, outsiders, not even part of our community. How is 'choosing not to participate in public debates' to solve a problem somehow a badge of glory? After ten-years of "heavy lifting" why don't you have more than an "initial plan" for a code blue? And why hasn't funding or staffing been addressed... yet? ~BB

I wrote to Felch. He's too important to write back, but one of his underlings, Ira Faro, tells me that Team Teti started it and even threatened them at a recent City Council meeting. I find that impossible to believe. Faro adds that he raised the money to build WDIY and writes grants for the homeless, so he apparently has some sort of diplomatic immunity.

Felch and Faro, quite clearly, are also Pharisees more worried about someone cutting into their turf than in solving a very real problem.

The denial and vilification does not stop with Dougherty, Felch and Faro. The Blog  Mentor has also jumped into the fray, attempting to dirty up Fegley and Teti.

Teti has a civil dispute over money that will be heard in February. The Blog Mentor has branded her a "civil scofflaw."

Even worse, he's calling Fegley a "violent offender ... who has been arrested for assault and violent physical harassment."

The problem is he's got the wrong Fegley. He has been defaming a homeless advocate on his blog, Facebook and in emails to Felch and Allentown City Council President Julio Guridy. 

He never bothered to check whether he had the right person.

Obviously, the Blog Mentor is a Pharisee, too.

Allentown's Urban Growth Regime always will deny a problem exists, alternatively shift the blame somewhere else and vilify those who point out the problem.

The good news here is that somehow, nobody has died from exposure in the Lehigh Valley. A homeless man in Philly was not so lucky on Thursday.

Urban Grown Regime Denies Homeless Problem

Allentown's Official City Bird

In typical King Edwin fashion, the urban growth regime known as Allentown has solved the City's homeless problem by denying it exists, so they don't have to do anything. Kinda' like the nonexistent crime problem.The City sticks its head in the sand so often, its mascot should be an ostrich.

""The idea is not just to get people out of the cold," states the memo prepared by Francis Dougherty. Actually, that's precisely the idea.It's what they call an emergency.

In addition to denial, the City likes to vilify critics. In his memo, Dougherty misrepresents homeless advocates like Diane Teti as a "competing interest group" with no rules or regulations.

Because of its dearth of rules, the City memo oozes scorn for a shelter at St. Paul's Evangelical Lutheran Church, served by Rev. Richard Baumann. Blogger Michael Molovinsky provides this description:

"Baumann and St. Paul's have only reluctantly joined the homeless business. It's not a $3.5 million dollar enterprise like the Rescue Mission. It's not a CDBG $185,000 funded Commission which pays for the salary for a couple city employees. It's a man, a church floor and a shoestring budget. This is what the City refers to as a competing interest? Diane Teti once said that nobody owns the homeless, but apparently the City thinks that it does."

According to the City, the Allentown Rescue Mission has space available. That's because they won't take anyone who is unwilling to drink their religious kool-aid. Whether it's accepting Jesus or Allah, no human being should be deprived of shelter on the basis of religious conviction, or unwillingness to form one

According to Teti, the Rescue Mission only has a capacity of 40 (men only), while Safe Haven has had higher numbers. The City memo also fails to recognize that a different approach is necessary during emergencies, when temperatures dip below freezing.

"None of us is as smart as all of us," noted another Allentown activist, Rich Fegley. He envisions a government of the people, by the people, and for the people. But that's not Allentown. It's an urban growth regime that exists for the likes of developers J.B Reilly and Joe Topper. If a few people freeze, that's a shame, but it's more state tax dollars for their office buildings instead of some poor person.