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| NorCo 911 Center |
Bath's Volunteer Fire Department is located just 1.2 miles (4 minutes) away from 3300 Rising Sun Court, an Upper Nazareth community with no public water. Despite its close proximity, Northampton County Council member Matt Dietz reports Bath Mayor Fiorella ‘Fi’ Reginelli-Mirabito told him her Borough's volunteer firefighters received no initial fire call.
In contrast to Bath, Upper Nazareth's Volunteer Fire Department is located 6.2 miles (14 minutes) away from 3300 Rising Court. This was the first department dispatched, followed by Nazareth's Vigilance Hose Co. That department is located 5.3 miles (13 minutes) away from the blaze. According to Bath Borough Manager Bradford Flynn, Palmer Tp's fire department was dispatched to the Rising Sun inferno before Bath finally received a call. Palmer Tp's fire department is 6.6 miles (12 minutes) away.
Wouldn't it make sense to dispatch the closest fire department?
Dietz met recently with Bath firefighters, and reported to Northampton County Council at their September 19 meeting. He felt it important to note three concerns they have about the 911 Center. He adds they tried calling the 911 Center, but received no answer until some recent emails. These are their issues:
(1) Closest department should be dispatched to an emergency. - During callouts, it's only logical to dispatch the closest emergency vehicle. According to Dietz, vehicles with longer response times are instead being dispatched. He said there could be an emergency call from the west end of Pen Argyl, right next to Plainfield, and Wind Gap emergency vehicles would be sent. Dietz said 911 should consider dispatching the station closest to the emergency, regardless of mutual aid agreements.
This sentiment is echoed in a September 18 email to Dietz from Bath Borough Manager Bradford Flynn.
"Over the past four years, I have personally witnessed or know of instances where Bath’s Fire Department or EMS Provider/Bethlehem Township EMS is not being initially dispatched to working structure/dwelling fires or life threatening ALS calls respectively within their immediate reach. This unnecessarily delays patient care, protection of property, and degrades the overall public safety mission in our area. In my opinion, the days of mutual aid agreements designed and executed by and between neighboring fire chiefs should be stream-lined through automated systems. Northampton County 911 should have the capability of using CAD systems and GPS resources to synchronize emergency incident locations, linking the location with Fire and Rescue Services to an appropriate 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Alarm, etc. protocol within a designated geographic footprint."Mutual aid agreements among the county's municipalities need revision.
(2) Bath firefighters are missing callouts on their older radio system. - They believe this problem affects other municipalities, too.
"That's not something that we're seeing broadly and is not something that's been brought to our attention," responded Administrator Charles Dertinger. He added the 911 Center is still using both its new and an older radio console to respond to emergency calls. "The new one has not had all of the bugs knocked out of it yet," he explained.
This would mean that Bath's issue is because of their own equipment, and would have been an issue before the switch to a consolidated 911
"It's their equipment that the County programmed for them," countered Dietz.
He's concerned about this issue even of it only applies to Bath. "Saying it's not broad and someone dies in Bath because it's a localized issue is not a good answer," he said.
Detinger wondered why this issue is only being presented now .Dietz responded the 911 Center was contacted several times and only answered a few days ago. Because of this lack of a response, Bath officials reached out to Dietz, their elected representative on Council.
Dertinger vowed to look into this concern.
(3) Bad Directions. - In response to a recent cardiac arrest, 911 was dispatching emergency vehicles the wrong way because a bridge in the Bath area is out. Dietz questioned whether 911 is aware some bridges are being repaired or replaced, making alternative routes necessary.
Dietz felt it was important to alert his fellow Council members, the Administration and the public He also said he will be contacting other municipalities as well as 911.
Council member Tara Zrinski then switched the topic to the airport's escalators. "Not that 911 isn't really important," she said with what appeared to be a bit of misplaced sarcasm. "No one wants to die in Bath," she added.
"No one wants to die anywhere," countered Lori Vargo Heffner, who was filling in for an absent Ron Heckman as Council President.
"Council doesn't care that we're fixing escalators," said Dietz after the meeting,. He added they do and should care about 911, a core county function.
52 comments:
What the hell is wrong with Zirinski? She is so self-absorbed she lacks the ability to represent anyone but herself. She is always looking for a selfie photo op. This issue is very important and I hope county council follows up as we cannot count on the Admisntration. They are covering for the leadership of the 911 center. Shame on her and those on council who ignored this issue. Maybe they should stick to screwing county employees out of their pay.
Glad to see that Bath official are so concerned about their municipal neighbors. However, they should probably focus their attention on struggles that exist within THEIR own borough. Must mean that their financial woes have been solved since withdrawing from the CRPD and now those same neighbors pay for police services by PSP. BTW, Bath Fire did have a crew at the Nazareth fire according to reports and pictures released from the scene.
Years ago, maybe twenty, I was traveling north on # 191 when a very bad accident occurred at the Brodhead Road intersection. No one (emergency personnel) were at the scene and a person was there with a bad cut and bleeding profusely from their head. The autos were severely damaged and gas was leaking out on the road. Less than a minute up the road was Hecktown Fire Department and ambulance corp so after the victims were being attended too by passersby, I proceeded to the volunteer fire company and told them about the accident. They informed be that the area of the accident was Bethlehem Twsp. and it was not part of their territory. Less than a minute from the scene but couldn't do anything because it wasn't part of their territory????? Looks like somethings never change.
", Bath Fire did have a crew at the Nazareth fire according to reports and pictures released from the scene."
Yes they did. If you read my story, you'd see that I point out that Bath was dispatched right after Palmer.
A tragic loss of property and the small dog in the midst of what appears to be an overriding coordination of county services problem. Another question hanging out there - why would Upper Nazareth officials have approved building plans years ago for any new consolidated small area of homes without fire hydrants? With the prices of those houses being what they were and, more importantly, lives at stake, could not Upper Nazareth have easily entered into an inter-municipality agreement with Bath and brought water to a hydrant system?
"What the hell is wrong with Zirinski? She is so self-absorbed"
She said what she said. I watched the video of her comments several times, and they certainly seemed to be sarcastic.
Re: Zirinski - hopefully the people of Bath remember those comments at the polls if and when she runs against Marci Hahn!
Welcome to the backwards ways on emergency services Northampton County, and the Lehigh Valley ...who comes to your house in an emergency in based solely on the municipality you live in and not based on the closest, most appropriate, and available resources. And, whenever those emergency services from your given municipality finally do arrive; they don't have to request aid from the close, most appropriate, available resources...they can request whoever they want, from where ever they want. So think about that while you watch your house burn down, or god forbid you're trapped inside and waiting for rescue
Palmer and Nazareth were initially dispatched for their aerial apparatus, which Bath does not have.
We definitely need to look into the way we respond to emergencies.
All of you are sooooo right. While we are looking into that issue, let's look at other services that cross boundaries. Isn't it time that we come up with one regional plan for services. Sewerage treatment plants built on the Boundaries of their neighbors and abutting properties with houses on them is a good example. Warehouses abutting housing developments creating unwanted dirt and traffic is another. How about school districts and police departments. It is time to look at getting rid of all these small municipalities and creating one large municipality. One police department, one school district, one mayor or elected official instead of 38 municipalities, and you can easily see the savings that can occur along with the efficiencies in providing numerous services. You get rid of all the lawyers serving on 38 zoning Boards, planning commissions, municipal solicitors, etc etc. C'mon Bernie, jump on the band wagon.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Palmer and Nazareth were initially dispatched for their aerial apparatus, which Bath does not have.
September 23, 2019 at 9:30 AM
True, but spend 5 min on Google maps and you find that: Nazareth is 6.1 miles from Rising Sun Ct and Palmer is 6.5 miles...East Allen Twp and Hanover Twp both have ladder trucks; East Allen is 4.4 miles and Hanover is 5.0 miles
Bath has an excellent Fire Department. Well trained and great leaders who have see it all over the years. Zirinski comment about Bath is totally out of order. Zirinski has to go. If demo's vote for her we're in a world of hurt at the State level. Were is the County Democratic Leadership doing? Appears they want to keep the State Legislature Republican. We need competent, knowledgeable people selected to run.
11:16, it makes most sense to dispatch the closest department, especially in an area with no public water. I agree aerial trucks are important too. The protocols for how departments are dispatched need some serious review, especially at a time in which climate change is making its presence known.
at 11:16 AM
Nazareth is 4.8 miles from Rising Sun ct. based on google maps.(49 South Broad Street) And yes I got the same distance for Palmer Fire 6.5
BOH @ 12:24
I agree, there need to be SOME change. There are many departments that choose who they get dispatched with base on who they like and do not like. THAT must change before it causes someone to lose their life. There are a lot of other factors that go into dispatching mutual aid, including, but not limited to,
specialized equipment (ie. Tankers, aerial ladders, cascade systems for air bottle refill, foam systems, forestry equipment etc.)
Rapid intervention teams, it is also considered good practice to NOT completely deplete and area of all fire fighting equipment fro the same area as to not leave that area completely devoid of firefighting equipment, and you don't necessarily want ALL of your equipment coming from the nearest area, if it were all to arrive at the same time it just creates a bottleneck of apparatus that also causes loss of time. Its also necessary to wait a bit to dispatch departments that will be used for relieving firefighters who will eventually becoming exhausted. But all in all mutual aid should GENERALLY be the nearest department, but not always, depending on the things above as well as many other factors including time of day.It would be wrong to solely base a departments aid plan just on distance traveled. Most but not all departments do well with the proper mutual aid based on the above.
All good points, but the closest department needs to get the word first. That is only logical unless it is out of commission.
Not gonna happen because PA is a Commonwealth.
5:40am
Hey Einstein, this conversation is about peoples lives and a fire department less than a mile away NOT being dispatched. Think then speak.
Let's be honest, Zrinski has zero interest or knowledge of county or local government...I watched the county meeting. She didn't know what it would take to get a zoning variance and actually said: "It can't be that difficult".
All she is interested in is doing these time-wasting proclamations. Hopefully, the rest of council will start pushing back on her nonsense.
Zirinksi thinks escalators are more important than 911. She also thinks Bath is crap. Marsha please make this a mailer.
There are some excellent points made by the commenters on this post that I feel are worthy of discussing with local and county elected officials. Bernie made a point about mutual aid agreements in the original post, and I would like to add some clarification. Essentially, there are no such ‘agreements’ in place, at least since the inception of Act 93 in 2008. Take particular note to section 7335, Assistance, where it discusses requests, responses to requests, reimbursement, and expenses. I will defer to friends and former/current EMS/Fire colleagues who may peruse this blog that it is my understanding the present order of dispatch is delegated by the Fire Chief of the municipality who dictates the neighboring agencies required for mutual aid. I have been out of EMS for several years and will prematurely offer an apology if this information is inaccurate.
I am intimately aware of the problem that is not just local anymore and has become a national concern. I have served as a representative for the National League of Cities at the National Fire Academy, where we sat for two days offering insight into rewriting the Recruitment and Retention Policy manual for the volunteer fire service. Without providing unnecessary and long-winded comment, there is a problem, and it is incumbent for elected officials to take a fierce look at this issue and begin to offer meaningful dialogue with an open mind.
The link to the legislation is below:
https://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/li/uconsCheck.cfm?yr=2008&sessInd=0&act=93
Home rule. Want to see a change. Start there. Nothing else matters until that gets changed.
This has nothing to do with home rule.
Thank you for an informative comment, Peter.
I remember one time when Palmer Township FD responded to a working car fire close to the Walgreens store in the parking lot at 25th and Wm Penn Hwy in Palmer Twsp. When they went mutual aid they requested Lower Nazareth despite the fact that the Wilson Boro FD was right down the street. Go figure. I guess it was that volunteer vs paid thing.
Guess you missed Hecktown on the initial dispatch at 3.8 miles away. They are on auto dispatch with Upper Nazareth on that side of their Township due to their proximity.
That's good but the closest department should have been dispatched.
The residents pay taxes to the township (more than likely not a fire tax though). The township is required to provide fire protection to its residents per Pa Act 69 of 1933. The township then hopefully provides some sort of financial benefit to its fire department. If another towns fire department is constantly responding to calls in another township, guess who is also gonna come looking for money. Always comes back to the money!
It's not as simple as proximity. There's also differences with capabilities of the equipment and response times. Bath could have potentially gotten their sooner (their response times are longer than Upper Nazareth so it's difficult to say), but their equipment would have been in the way. Upper Nazareth's more modern trucks have powerful pumps with greater capacity for water dispersment than Bath's and the biggest necessity in fighting that fire were the two aerial trucks provided by Hecktown and Palmer. Nazareth was initially called for theirs, but was unable to respond with it (I believe it was out of service) and Palmer was immediately dispatched in their place.
This was a very large house and on scene, Palmer's aerial had the primary location in front of the home with Hecktown's aerial on the side. Both trucks have deck guns, or water cannons, attached to their booms that dropped massive amounts of water onto the fire from above, stopping it from spreading to adjacent properties and protecting firefighters on the ground. The water was fed to those trucks from the Upper Nazareth pumpers that arrived on the scene first and prepared the portable pond cascade system. Typically, they would connect to one or more hydrants for the water supply, but in the absence of a hydrant, water must be delivered to the scene by a tanker task force. It's dumped into that portable pond network and siphoned out by the pumpers through hard suction hoses, then distributed to other fire trucks and hand lines used by firefighters on the ground.
To supply those two aerial trucks with their water cannons along with all the hand lines on the ground, you need the most powerful pumpers available and the initial departments dispatched have them. No disrespect meant to Bath and their firefighters are excellent, but it's all about the equipment and the many years of experience in coordinating equipment between those initial departments. They've trained together many, many times and fought far too many big fires together over the years. As complicated as placement of equipment and connections between trucks to the water source may seem to the outsider, with the spaghetti pile of hose lines in all directions, they've got it down to a science and it takes seconds for the mutual aid departments to connect the supply lines and get water on the fire.
Follow the money is right. Upper Naz resident experiences a house fire and then starts a very generous and successful go fund me drive. Now Bath officials come cryin to the county. Looks like they want a bigger piece of the pie. Guess they want to make up their budget shortfall on the backs of neighboring towns. It’s always about the money and this time is no different.
Brad Flynn complaining about protection. As a Bath resident I think that ironic. He's the reason we don't have 24/7/365 police protection. Residents need to listen to the 911 dispatchers for PD in Bath. Many times you hear Moore Township, Upper Nazareth or Colonial Regional officers being dispatched because PSP isn't available or don't have enough troopers to handle the call. Yet Mayor Fi claims things are going well. It's a shame we're being lied to my our Mayor.
Interesting you say that with such certainty. From my understanding as a homerule county its up to the individual municipalaty how to handle emergencies and not the 911 center.
To Anonymous at 6:04am:
Dear Anonymous Bath Resident - Funny you seem to have all the answers...yet, you hide behind a screen with your big "screen muscles". Why don't you approach me directly about my so-called "lies". PSP is doing fine - as we said in the beginning - we will MONITOR our decision going forward. Perhaps you should do some research before you spew from your uneducated mouth - BATH NEVER HAD 24/7/365 COVERAGE with CRPD. Also, it's called "mutual aid" - look into that too, while you're at it. We ARE CONCERNED - because a problem with the 911 Center could mean a life...and, whether you're concerned about that or not - I am. Lastly, why don't you run for Borough Council, or for that matter - my seat -I'll step aside...let's see what you can do.
Sincerely,
Mayor Mirabito
Fire response isn’t the only problem in Bath. When Bath’s Fire Dept Decided to let the EMS go Council decided to bring in Bethlehem Township who promised the Bough fantastic coverage. Many time they have pulled the truck for other calls or reasons. People have had to wait for Ambulances returning from god knows where while trucks just sit in East Allen or Klecknersville leaving people to wait for a Ambulance.
Until it’s a Council members house or loved one left sitting in a time of need nothing will change.
There are a few major issues. 1st you need to know how dispatch works. Palmer was 2nd due because it has a ladder/aeriel. Bath's antiquated apparatus wouldn't have helped and blocked arriving units. 2nd the 911 center is a mess on both the fire and PD side. We window dressed the merger to pretend everything is working. Moth Mr. McClure and Dertinger are well aware of the matter. They brought dispatchers to ivory tower to discuss the issue. Someone will die before it's corrected
and McClure can have another "I am great" press conference.
HOME RULE only allows Counties to provide a service and tax the people of that community for the service if the municipality does not provide the service. 911 is a County function because back in the early 90's no other municipality provided the service but Bethlehem. All the communities that have fire, police, and ambulance service can opt out of any County program that will provide the same service because the County doesn't have the right or authority to usurp the powers of a community already providing the service. Being that volunteers serve most of the municipalities in Northampton County with fire, police, and ambulance service it would be almost impossible for the County to take over these functions and do them at a reasonable cost. However, School districts and police services could probably be a function the County could do at more affordable prices and more cost effective to the taxpayer.
That's what I was trying to say in regards to " home rule". County or county 911 does not dictate what any municipality does in response to emergencies. They only follow what the municipality tells them to do.
One would think with a house that size they would have some kind on alarm system that would be hooked up to 911. That’s your faster response time !
Even a camera system with motion detection the homeowner would’ve been alerted right away.
Ben Miller, I appreciate the informative response, but even under your own explanation, Bath should have been there first as part of the tanker task force. Also, Nazareth responded even though it had no aerial. That left this area without fire protection.
The way fire departments respond to these emergencies needs to be evaluated, and by people more competent than me. There should be no room for internal politics, and the county Emergency Management Director needs to completely revise our emergency response protocols.
Test comment.
"Follow the money is right. Upper Naz resident experiences a house fire and then starts a very generous and successful go fund me drive. Now Bath officials come cryin to the county. Looks like they want a bigger piece of the pie. Guess they want to make up their budget shortfall on the backs of neighboring towns. It’s always about the money and this time is no different"
Obliviously by reading your comment and judging it off of your horrid grammar. It is safe to say you clearly did not read the blog and if you did you read what you wanted to read. I do not think this has anything to do with "money". It is clearly about the 911 center failing to send call outs to their pagers. Nothing to do with money. Carry on and read the blog before putting in your pocket change.
Thank you,
A concerned citizen.
Yes, East Allen and Klecknersville both have ambulances. I’m sure you either already know or actually have no idea that East Allen is out of service most nights and Klecknersville only has partial staffing throughout the day leaving it up to volunteers to respond from home at nights. Don’t drag Bethlehem Twp into this. East Allen and Northampton Regional drive thru or past a Bethlehem Twp unit staged in Bath while there is an emergency seconds down the road. I’m sure Bethlehem Twp has its flaws, but soooo does every surrounding agency.
Actually, if you know anything about the department...they've been complaining about these issues for years; no one has ever answered their calls in the past.
As far as the very generous go fund me account. That is to be split equally. There isn't any "bigger piece of the pot".
Get your facts before you comment so rudely against people who risk their lives to help save people and property.
There is definitely a lot that goes into dispatching, and you make a lot.of valid points. That being said, it should be be re-evaluated and at the very least looked into a bit more.
You mentioned about Bath's call time being slower. Part of that problem is one of Bath's concerns; they don't get the calls half the time, and/or they don't get them right away. There is a delay to their calls from the county.
The county EMC is not capable of restructuring. It's an issue being a commonwealth.
As Captain of East Allen I’m asking for those who have posted as Anonymous to not comment for or against our service. We are not associated with the coverage of Bath Bough except as a mutual add organization.
We have had positive relations with Bethlehem Township and support our bother’s and sisters their.
We do not support bashing of other EMS, Fire or Dispatching as it serves no positive outcome.
Jon Kopishke
4671
I'm not qualified to talk about restructuring and thankfully, I am unaware of all the internal politics. I'm kind of sick of the way politics has taken over every aspect of life. The one point I do want to address is what you said about Nazareth being left without fire protection. That didn't happen. Another department (I believe Plainfield) sent a truck and crew to stage in the Vigilance headquarters in case of an emergency while they were at the fire.
Chief Kopishke, thank you for your comment and what you do.
Thank you for an important clarification Ben Miller
Thank you sir.
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