Let me preface this by saying I support unions. In fact, I helped organize one many years ago, in my first job as a chemist. I understand the need to protect decent people from corporate greed. But I have never understood why people need to be protected from the public they supposedly serve. Instead of helping us, public sector unions have enslaved us.In Wisconsin, where Governor Walker has beat back a public sector union effort to drive him out of office, I'd hesitate to call the 54-45 win a resounding cry for conservative governance. But it does send one message - it's time to end the stranglehold of public sector unions, who own too many locally elected politicians. Even Franklin Delano Roosevelt opposed them. "It is impossible to bargain collectively with the government," he observed.
According to Forbes,
Walker’s message is clear: The key to bringing balance back to public sector labor relations and balance state budgets is to break the iron triangle of closed-shop mandatory unionization, compulsory dues collection, and oversized campaign donations to politicians that promise to do the unions’ bidding. If other governors take his cue and take up the cause, that giant sucking sound you hear will be the air coming out of union bosses’ bloated political action budgets.Can a Repubican-led legislature led by a Republican Governor break the iron triangle in Pennsylvania? We'll see.
85 comments:
"oversized campaign donations" come from big business as well, just look @ Shell's $1.6B tax incentive / break Corbett is about to give away!
Yes, they do, and that bothers me. But the difference is that Shell or private sector unions are not employed by the government. When you make campaign contributions to the very people who set your salary and benefits, it's to close a connection. Also, people employed in the public sector have due process rights,which do not exist in the private sector. There is no real need for public sector unions.
The Morning Call hid the Scott Walker victory in a small article on Page 12, what a despicable newspaper with a liberal agenda. I refuse to even visit the Morning Call website at this point. Whichever side you agree with, we can all agree that the recall vote in Wisconsin was a very newsworthy national story.
The Public Sector Unions hit their Iceberg last night and ripped a gaping hole in their cause. The ship is going down and taxpayers are smiling
governmental and teacher unions are ruining our economy. Hopefully Walkers victory will be a rallying cry for more weak kneed pols everywhere. Time to end the nonsense.
Wisconsin is the birthplace of public sector unions. Ironically, Wisconsin became their Waterloo.
The backlash, as evidenced by the margin of victory is refreshing. People are finally catching on. The unions couldn't even get their candidate through the primary and had to support a previous loser whom they ran against two months earlier. Their final attempted smear (rumors of an illegitimate child) was the final straw for voters who rejected everything public unions stand for, from pensions to goon campaign tactics. Now, they get to Occupy nothing and WI's economy is one of the nation's strongest with 6% unemployment and crashing union membership numbers.
How sweet it is.
Relax, there is nothing to celebrate here.
The silly Democrats can just kick and stomp and scream and shout and make everyone's life miserable some more.
Bus in even MORE out-of-state Union hacks and go wreck the Wisconsin capital building as many times as it takes to force ANOTHER recall before the regularly scheduled General Election in two years time.
Because it's just not fair, you know.
And then there are the evil Koch Brothers ...
:-)
State Rep. Justin Simmons is running against a public sector union hack this November....can't remember his name? Regardless, Mr. Public sector Union Pres. should run for the hills after last nights results. He is no match for the ever popular Justin Simmons.
The answer is yes, for exactly the reasons you cite. Even FDR warned of the dangers of public sector unions. They already enjoy civil service protections. They have corrupted the system and hurt the economy. It's time for them to go.
Bernie -
The question is not whether it should happen in Pennsylvania (or other states), but if there are some "traditional" Democrat elected officials out there who are willing to get in line with the taxpayers and join the cause.
Walker won but he lost the State Senate last night. His mandate is a lot weaker than any union hater would like to admit.
Here is why I'm generally supportive of public sector unions: the first people to get screwed are the people at the front desk. They are typically the union members. They get screwed by the political appointees who come and go on a regular basis. If you can find a way to protect the front line workers from the political appointees, I am game. Until then, political appointees have agendas and those agendas very rarely have anything to do with the people working on the front line or serving people who need government assistance. Also, public sector due process rights exist because of the union's ability to protect those rights. If you don't think those rights would be destroyed, think again. Those front line jobs will be filled with nothing but political lackeys, a la Philadelphia Parking Authority.
I simply don't trust the political appointees and the politicians they seek to serve.
Anon 8:42.. Simmons is running against Deeley, dont remember his first name. Deeley is a weed smokin nut.
"Union haters"
Whatever.
Ha ha!
I don't trust Unions.
Apparently, neither does Wisconsin.
"Union haters"
Whatever.
Where was 0-bama? I thought he was a big Union guy? Did he let the team down, or what?
First, you need to explain how a public employee "serves" and a private employee does not. Both "serve" their employer and both expect decent working conditions, decent pay and benefits, and a voice in negotiating those conditions. Explain to me why one group of workers has this right and the other does not. By your logic, government workers who are unionized must accept whatever conditions bestowed upon them because you, a taxpayer, has deemed those conditions appropriate.
Not at all. I am saying that there already are mechanisms to protect public sector employees that do not exist in the private sector. They must afford basic due process rights. The must pay a living age as a matter of substantive due process.
One of the reasons,and probably the primary reason, you have a "Home Rule Government" in Northampton County was to eliminate the "political patronage system" that was in effect back in the 50's, 60's, and 70's. Every time some new "Commissioner" was elected or a new "Row Officer" was elected, he got rid of all the employees in the office and hired employees who would be loyal to him regarless of skills and abilities. Northampton County employees were amongst the lowest paid workers in the public or private sector. Everytime it came time for a tax increase or belt tightening, it was the grunt workers who had their wages frozen and had to accept cuts in their overall wage scales. How did Northampton County wind up with eleven unions representing the employees? Because when it came time to crunching numbers to balance a budget the first crunch came on the backs of the employees. They had no where to go but to the unions to protect what they have.
There is more to unions than what you see on the surface. Think about it. Employers, regardless if its the private sector or the public sector, aren't generous with their employees because they want to be.....unions make them be. This spills over to the private workforce in general.If the private workforce (not represented by a union) can't hire because they don't pay enough, they raise their wages so they are able to compete or they go under.
I agree with you that in some areas unions have held us hostage and maybe some of these areas need a review now and then. This can be done in and through the courts. It should not be done through legislation. Everyone should have the right to belong to a union.
Cant say I dont agree with you! I work in county goverment and AFSCME is a worthless group of money sucking bums. They really do nothing except beg for more money. I am only a union member because I was forced into it when hired. Other then that I could care less. As long as I was paid fair by the county I would jump ship.
And think. Without AFSCME, workers went years without raises. With AFSCME, they go years without raises.
Not at all. I am saying that there already are mechanisms to protect public sector employees that do not exist in the private sector. They must afford basic due process rights. The must pay a living age as a matter of substantive due process.
Pay raises are decided by due process?
Wisconsin Senate is still undecided. A single race that will determine the majority part has not been called.
Actually, yes. If employees are paid less that a living wage, the argument could be made with some validity that it is a violation of substantive process. In addition, the government is bound by all kinds of restrictions that have no application in the private workforce. Chrin can build a Rte 33 Interchange for half or even less than it would cost PennDot.
11:24 am said:
"Everyone should have the right to belong to a union."
I agree. And everyone should have the right NOT to belong to a union.
But that's something the unions will never agree to.
It may only have been a 54 to 45 win, but in a state that is very blue it is a real change in the game.
There is a huge difference between public and private unions. I came from a steel family,but the public unions are totally out of control.Even many private union worwers are fed up with the cost of public contracts. Over time all things adjust to a reasonable norm. It just is time to reset the rules for gov't worker compensation/benefits.
All need to pay reasonably into the benefit pool and no free benefits. The defined benefit plan concept has to go. Wages need to be pegged to the increases given to the largest local firms.
Teaching needs to toatally be reworked. Decent wages/benefits, but there has to be a way to quickly get rid og bad eggs!!!
Bernie-
There are many public employees who are "at will" and therefore not entitled to due process. To be entitled to due process you must have a property interest or right in your employment, and at will employment does not confer a property right in your job. The earlier poster described the changeover in workers as new politicians took office and installed their buddies - all perfectly legal if you have an at will workforce. So, there were probably legitimate reasons why unions took hold in the public sector. Normal private sector business decision making does not control in political situations.
In fact, in view of the vicious rhetoric directed at the public sector these days, I'd say union protection still might have value, even though I dislike unions in general.
i notice all the politicians who hammer at public unions and then shake my head when i see that the politicians get an annual pay raise, enjoy incredible benefits and all kinds of other perks.
Until the politicians turn all that down, I don't want to hear a thing blaming the unions. if politicians won't do it to themselves, then they shouldn't do it to the workers.
O'Hares start to this union bashing teabagger entry was funny. He loves unions but.
It should have read, I love black people, I once helped a black person get a job BUT......
Hypocrite!
The Communist Party, every other radical Left Wing fruitcake organization and the Progressive Liberal Democrats all marching happily together all this time in Wisconsin in their FAILED bid to recall Governor Walker ...
... THAT will never be forgotten.
Not only Big Labor, but the Main Stream Media took a beating on this one, as well, and there is no denying that --- as if they have any credibility left to lose!
Obama NOT showing up to battle for the Unions ... that will not be forgotten, either.
"union bashing teabagger"
ha ha
sour grapes if i ever saw it!
it has been reported that 38% of Union Households voted for Walker ...
... must be Hypocrites?
If you like a 40 hour work, Child labor laws, and weekends off thank your Union. These things didn't happen because Employers decided it would be a good idea or the right thing to do. They happened because workers organized and unions stood up for there rights. Public and Private unions are not the problem Greedy employers are. I don't believe that a decent wage, benefits and a pension is to much to ask. I'm sure some people on this blog do!
Walker brought hope and change to Wisconsin. Their economy is strong and they're going back to work. Now that public unions have been vanquished, it's morning in Wisconsin. We should do the same in Pennsylvania. Several California towns passed referenda by huge margins to castrate public unions. The gig is finally up.
Is the gig up? I don't know Walker remains but his Senate doesn't good luck getting anything through the Senate now.
Great point 3:24...Also, in regard to Wisconsin, before the movement took place the Republicans had complete control of every branch of government..Now despite the insane money spent to maintain these majorities, the right lost the Wisconsin Senate..So the tea party nuts can stop singing long lives the king..because without senate control, the king is dead..His, Walker's, union busting days are over..Public sector unions and other unions are usually the first hit when an authoritarian regime takes control..Bernie hates the public sector unions because most of the unionized workers in the county despise him..A study recently showed that with the demise of the unions came the demise of the middle class..No surprise there. If you keep hammering away at the unions you will eventually help destroy the middle class. Of course the billionairres who support these anti union efforts love that. More for them..In my mind, anyone who attacks unions supports these big fat cats..In the end , they'll take it up the butt like the rest of us when the unions are finally ousted..I expect they'll enjoy it.
The Wisconsin senate is now 17D to 16R. But, 16 seats up in Nov.
They need a break in the action. Too much anger. Also, need to see how the political winds change.
Waiting for the SC to act on OCARE. Lots of poltical actions over the next five months.
Thank the unions for vacations. Thank the unions for sick days, thank the unions for a 40 hour work week. Thank the unions for progressive social legislation from civil rights to Medicare..Ok, I will..Thank you unions!!!
Oops, almost forgot..Thank the unions for overtime pay. Thank the unions for worker safety regulations, Feel free to draw one line on a graph charting the decline in union membership and superimpose a second line charting a decline in middle class income share..The two lines are nearly identical..So go ahead ..If you kill off or nueter unions , you kill off the middle class..If your a multimillionairre, that's good news I guess..It's no accident that while middle class income is going nowhere, the rich are getting much, much richer..
The guy speaking at 3:24 is an asshole.
He says greedy corporations are a problem?
I'm sorry but don't public sector union workers work for taxpayers, not a corporation?
Corbett and his Minions don't have the guts to go after the Unions.
I guess its fine for Simmons to make a large Salary with Benefits but not permitted for a PennDot, Turnpike or State Store employee.
By Todd Richmond
Associated Press
Posted: 06/06/2012 12:01:00 AM CDT
Updated: 06/06/2012 05:37:22 PM CDT
MADISON, Wis. -- The recall race that will determine whether Democrats gain control of the Wisconsin state Senate or Gov. Scott Walker's fellow Republicans retain control of the full Legislature was too close to call Wednesday and appeared likely to remain that way for days.
Corbett won't go after unions. That's true. He'll take an incremental approach and not be as brash as Walker. Until he does a Walker on PA public service unions, our chief export will continue to be educated young people and population, in general because businesses are running - not walking - running out of PA.
Bernie,
Long day at work but noticed no one posted the obvious, “Meticulous attention,” the president insisted in 1937, “should be paid to the special relations and obligations of public servants to the public itself and to the Government….The process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service.”
Franklin Roosevelt
One may see the folly of public sector unions being played out now in the omnipresent fiscal crisis plaguing every level of government. Through the unholy marriage to paid for elected officials, public sector unionized workers are bleeding the taxpayers white and threatening to bankrupt the country.
FDR saw this coming long ago. He was right.
Scott Armstrong
anon 5:20
I don't see the word corporations in the 3:24 post at all. It says greedy employers and that is very different from corporations. If employers would treat employees fair we wouldn't need unions but all they care about is there bottom line. Also it is true that public sector unions work for the tax payer but they are also tax payers themselves.
Scott, Now if I could only get you to agree with everything else FDR had to say!
"Cant say I dont agree with you! I work in county goverment and AFSCME is a worthless group of money sucking bums. They really do nothing except beg for more money. I am only a union member because I was forced into it when hired. Other then that I could care less. As long as I was paid fair by the county I would jump ship."
It is illegal to be "forced into it" know your rights. You can always go fair share, and be afforded all of the same things union members get with the exception of arbitration.
If you truly feel that way go fair share at your next chance.
"I agree. And everyone should have the right NOT to belong to a union."
You do have a right to NOT belong to a union. Educate yourselves.
Once again for those who missed it..Despite all th millions spent by outside groups in Wisconsin, the democrats have taken back the senate..Walker's chances of getting through any more crap legislation is zero to none...To the moron that hates his union I can only say, Give it a break! Shut up already..If you work overtime , you get paid for it..You probably get all the benefits that ASFCME worked for before you even got to the county. So if you dont like it, leave the job and go work for a non union employer like Walmart..See how that works for you you whining piece of crap...In fact, I doubt that you even are a union employee..If you are and arent a coward just go to justus and let him know how you feel..I'm sure he'll do his best to throw your cowardly ass out of the union for good..
:There are many public employees who are "at will" and therefore not entitled to due process. To be entitled to due process you must have a property interest or right in your employment, and at will employment does not confer a property right in your job."
That is true in some cases, but belonging to public sector unions don't change that reality. It just means dues will be deducted from your salary.
"Oops, almost forgot..Thank the unions for overtime pay. Thank the unions for worker safety regulations, Feel free to draw one line on a graph charting the decline in union membership and superimpose a second line charting a decline in middle class income share..The two lines are nearly identical..So go ahead ..If you kill off or nueter unions , you kill off the middle class..If your a multimillionairre, that's good news I guess..It's no accident that while middle class income is going nowhere, the rich are getting much, much richer.. "
I agree with you, but this was all achieved by private sector unions. Public sector unions are known instead for screwing the middle class with tax hikes to pay for defined benefit pensions that nobody in the private sector can afford.
most public sector union cry babies are marginal high school graduates that were in the lower 10% of their classes and can barely read and write. That's why the City of Bethlum went to direct deposit of checks. These mindless boys needed help depositing their checks every couple of weeks. Most couldn't even figure out it was payday.
Most of these losers could not make it in the real world of work because they are lazy, ignorant and spend most of their working day at WaWa or hiding.
Management is equally to blame for this travesty as they have less balls and sense than these union pukes. Management is afraid of the worthless union employees for whatever stupid reason.
Solution: Cut both worthless management and lazy union pukes. Privatize most union jobs and save the taxpayers costs on a yearly basis plus eliminate the legacy costs of these so called employees that just hang on to real working people's coattails.
'Once again for those who missed it..Despite all th millions spent by outside groups in Wisconsin, the democrats have taken back the senate.."
According to Real Clear Politics, and as pointed out by a reader, the Senate is up in the air and won't be decided for days.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/news/ap/politics/2012/Jun/06/recall_deciding_wisconsin_senate_control_too_close.html
'O'Hares start to this union bashing teabagger entry was funny. He loves unions but."
You are trying to lump private and public sector unions together. i distinguish them, but you are apparently too stupid or hateful to notice.
Anonymous said...
I guess its fine for Simmons to make a large Salary with Benefits but not permitted for a PennDot, Turnpike or State Store employee.
5:42 PM
No, it is not alright. Simmons is a duplicitous fucktard. He is everything he supposedly stood against. Those he hoodwinked have a better case for recall than those whackos in Wisconsin.
-Clem
Unions need to go. They have outlived their utility and have morphed into a self regenerating canker sucking the life out of the community while living & breeding on the butt of local governments.
Simmons too.
PA Dutch Shaman
"most public sector union cry babies are marginal high school graduates that were in the lower 10% of their classes and can barely read and write. That's why the City of Bethlum went to direct deposit of checks. These mindless boys needed help depositing their checks every couple of weeks. Most couldn't even figure out it was payday."
"Mr Baker"
In case you are unaware, most municipalities are going to "paperless checks" to save costs. In fact Northampton County did it this year. They gave their employees time to choose either direct deposit, or a debit card.
Again, it was for saving money, and had nothing to do with the education level of said employees.
If it makes you feel better about yourself to bash people in the comfort of your own home, with no real threat of retaliation, then feel free to do so.
I on the other hand choose to educate myself with the facts, and bring them to this forum.
Enjoy!!
"most public sector union cry babies are marginal high school graduates that were in the lower 10% of their classes and can barely read and write. That's why the City of Bethlum went to direct deposit of checks. These mindless boys needed help depositing their checks every couple of weeks. Most couldn't even figure out it was payday."
"Mr Baker"
In case you are unaware, most municipalities are going to "paperless checks" to save costs. In fact Northampton County did it this year. They gave their employees time to choose either direct deposit, or a debit card.
Again, it was for saving money, and had nothing to do with the education level of said employees.
If it makes you feel better about yourself to bash people in the comfort of your own home, with no real threat of retaliation, then feel free to do so.
I on the other hand choose to educate myself with the facts, and bring them to this forum.
Enjoy!!
Union goon posted the same thing twice. Proves a point. They are greedy. They always want twice as much as they deserve. Case closed
June 7, 2012
Walker Changes Attitudes on Public Employee Unions
By Michael Barone
"The case for public employee unions has never been strong. Franklin Roosevelt opposed them, and so did AFL-CIO founding President George Meany.
Public unions' institutional incentives are to increase pay and benefits, which costs taxpayers money, and to limit employee accountability, which tends to reduce the quality of public services.
Union leaders claim they uphold professional standards. But aside from police and fire unions fighting dumbed-down hiring and promotion exams, it's hard to find examples of this actually happening -- much harder than finding incompetents and miscreants kept on the public payroll by their unions."
My Township provides great service and it is unionized. Its police, road crew staff. They have nice contracts and do a good job. Why would someone want them disbanded? The union protects them from the idiots that come and go on council. IMHO, they need the protection.
rather have a sister in a whorehouse than a brother in a union
Union pensions havent bankrupted state and municipal budgets..It was the wall street melt down that caused most if not all of these problems..However, the republicans have used their billions and Fox noise to put the blame on public sector unions. Many of those who post here are stupid enough to buy this crap..The swaption that just cost Northampton county 25 million was not the fault of the unions, was it???The county could have paid that off when it was 9 million? Is that the union's fault that it did not? The teachers pensions that are costing school districts much money these days were set by the republican Ridge administration in 2001..Someone always gives the unions the benefits they have..Therefore to blame the unions benefits they have gotten through negotiation is absolutely crazy..They didnt give themselves these benefits..So if you want to believe Fox noise and blame our financial woes on the public sector unions instead of the real culprit, wall street, go right ahead..However, you are just proving that you are ignorant..Congratulations! You have proven the truth behind the studies that said that Fox news viewers know less about whats going on in the world than the guy who doesnt even watch the news..
What is the Salary of a Wisconsin Legislator?
I'll report later!
By the way,7:08,
My guess is that your sister probably is in a whorehouse if she's not in a union..She'd need the extra money to survive..Tell her we all understand her decision.
Bernie,
Did a quick check on the salary of a Wisconsin state legislator....Approx...$49,500.00
Tell Simmons to cut his pay to this amount first and the ask others to follow...NO Chance!
Our township has several bargaining units and they are difficult to negotiate at best at contract time. The police unions are the WORST, they believe they are entitled to it all because of who they are. In this economy these contracts are no longer sustainable and when you do not offer them what they want off we go to arbitration costing the taxpayer even more money. If you set a standard with one bargaining unit then it sets ground for the others, it is a vicious no win situation. A fair wage with fair benefits is ok but not all the excess. Try to get them to contribute something more to the health care premium and they cry like babies. Most would not make it in the private sector. They have the world by the balls and the taxpayers by the throat.
Simmons and Daley are both poor candidates for this office!
"You do have a right to NOT belong to a Union"
IS THAT WHAT CARD CHECK IS ALL ABOUT???
Ha ha ha ha
Where was Obama?
Didn't he let the Union Team down?
YES, HE DID!
Yes, he did.
How is that Hope and Change working out for you?
Right to not join a Union. Ha ha. Is that what CARD CHECK is all about?
Screw Jimmy Hoffa --- this son of a bitch ain't gonna be taken out by any Union goon or thug!
MADE IN USA
"IS THAT WHAT CARD CHECK IS ALL ABOUT???"
I have never been part of a "card check" know your rights, and educate yourself. You can not be forced to join a union!!!!
Simmons betrayed us.
Well said, Zoid.
McCartheism is back with Simmonism!
Please (a) stop the off topic Simmons' attacks or (b) at least learn how to spell.
Hey Zoid,
The last contracts we approved in NORCO the employees DID increase their share of the Health Care
Of course O'Hare defends the zoid attack on police. since the cops have to keep an eye on O'Hare types, it pisses him off.
Hooray for Anon 7:32 a.m. somebody else who has not been fooled by the smoke and mirrors! Most of the posters here are like the poor uneducated south and midwest who CONTINUALLY vote against their own interests. Just throw them a nice wedge issue like abortion or gay marriage to offend their morality and their with you even though the economy controlled by the rich has stomped on them the hardest. Indeed let's not forget who and what started this mess...greedy, risk-takers who we all thought were supposed to be smart and who got and are STILL getting away with gambling our money away. They are then rewarded for their poor performance with golden parachutes and bonuses. Meanwhile, Republicans call for even less than the minimal regulation that is enforced. Oh yeah, don't forget we'll be called on to bail them out again too because they can indeed crash the economy. The rich interests in this country are laughing at most of you all the way to their yachts...."look, we've made it, and they are eating their own, getting rid of those pesky unions".....OPEN YOUR EYES MIDDLE CLASS!
With Reagan and the age of Limbaughs and Fox, the middle class has rolled over and gone to sleep.
The dream of any ruling elite has happened. Get The middle class to fight over the cake crumbs and blame each other.
The middle class was an American experiment that raised the quality of life for more people than at any time in history. Of course, that meant that costs were kept in proportion to profits for all.
Reagan and Fox have convinced many that there was once this mythical America were everyone was made great by a make beleive separation of government and business. Today the differences that exist presenta greater disparity between people than ever in American history.
Yes, we are stupid and the middle class is shrinking everyday. But in fairness, the Corporate elite may have provided the knife but we have turned it on ourselves with great gusto.
I have deleted an attempt by the Wicked Witch of West Easton to draw readers to her blog. I refuse to link to hate blogs and will not allow her to do so, ether.
It is a fact that local uion workers are bullied by their representatives to vote democrat. Where is the liberty in that? Unions are pulling us apart as a whole. Teachers are COMPLETELY out of control. Why is it that private school teachers earn significantly less yet their students have a lower drop out rate and go on to go to college more than public school kids? Unions are unnecessary...they protect the representatives and push for less than par workers. If work conditions are that bad either suck it up or find a new job. In this day and age the only people entitled to a job are the ones that go to work every day. If you need to protect a bad work ethic you need a cold slap of reality called unemployment. Just sayin.
The answer is "YES!"
Public Service Unions should be illegal. They are democrats primarily and I do not want my tax dollars spent to support and finance the democratic party !
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