I prefer sticking to local topics but occasionally will ramble into other areas. Friday's shouting match involving Donald Trump, JD Vance and Volodymyr Zelenskyy is something I've thought about all weekend. I actually watched the entire blow-up in its entirety three times. I thought I'd give you my own analysis. for what it's worth.
1) The meeting started pleasantly, with Trump saying he worked well with Zelenskyy and has known him a long time and that it was "an honor.". He said the minerals deal, which will allow American companies to harvest Ukraine's rare earths, is a "big commitment" by the US. - I'd disagree because the US has frozen Russian assets and could use those to recoup the money spent to finance Ukraine. The minerals deal smacks as colonialism and, quite frankly, would take many years before any profit was realized. Nevertheless, Zelenskyy went along with it.
2) "If I were President, this war would never have happened." Trump made this statement during the get-together and made it many times on the campaign trail as well. He may be right. When Russia first invaded Ukraine in 2014 and seized both Crimea and portions of the country, former President Obama did very little. Moreover, Biden botched a withdrawal of troops from Afghanistan. This undoubtedly emboldened Putin. Trump failed to mention that he is the one who negotiated that deal with the Taliban. He failed to bring in the Afghan government, just as he has failed to bring in Ukraine or Europe in talks with Russians.
3) Trump complimented Ukraine's military as "unbelievably brave." He complimented Zelenskyy as well for his stiff resistance to Russia's invasion.
4) When Trump invited Zelenskyy to speak, the very first thing he did was thank him. He made clear at the onset that he viewed the minerals deal as the first real step to security agreements for Ukraine. (We'll come back to that). Zelensky said they are fighting to "save our country, our values. our freedom, our democracy and, of course, no compromises with a killer about our territories. ... ." He added that Russians have kidnapped 20,000 children, changed their names and even changed their families. He also showed photos of what Russians have done to Ukrainian POWS and clerics, which Trump acknowledged is "tough stuff." He even had photos of children. "We want to get that ended," said Trump.
6) Zelenskyy noted that Ukraine has the best drone production in the world and is willing to share its licenses with the US but needs air defense, at which the US excels.
7) The assembled press bothered me. Trump, who has become increasingly authoritarian in his first few weeks as President, banned both Reuters and AP, which are highly respected media outlets. He replaced them with fawning correspondents like Marjorie Taylor Greene's boyfriend, who wondered whether Trump will go down in history as the Peacemaker. He also dismissively asked Zelenskyy why he does not wear a suit and whether he can afford one (Zelensky dresses as his soldiers dress) Another reporter fawned about whether Trump should be compared to famous historical figures. After joking about it, Trump to his credit said he doesn't compare himself to anyone and is just "here to do a job." A third reporter asked Trump what gave him his "moral courage and conviction."
8) Trump said the US would continue to provide military support. "Hopefully, I won't have to send very much." Zelenskyy said the US has been on Ukraine's side from the beginning. Trump would later say he is on nobody's side and just wants to solve the problem. In response to a question, he said he remains committed to Poland and to NATO.
9) Trump said that any peace arrangement will require compromise.
10) The mineral agreement provides for Liquid Gas terminals for Ukraine, which Zelenskyy said would enable Ukraine to provide heat to Europe.
11) About halfway into the news conference, the topic of security agreements was brought up again. Zelenskyy claimed they are essential because Putin has a history of ignoring agreements. He broke ceasefire agreements 25 times. As they were speaking at the White House about peace, Zelenskyy noted that Putin was firing ballistic missiles into Ukraine. He said that without security agreements, "Putin will never stop." Trump said security agreements are only about 2% of the overall deal.
12) Zelenskyy insisted that Ukraine would have to be involved in any peace talks. "This is not a war between Russia and the United States This is a war of Russia against Ukraine and Ukrainian people."
13) Zelenskyy corrected Trump when he said much of Ukraine has been destroyed. "You have to come and to look," said Zelenskyy. He said most cities are very much alive with people working and children going to school. "Ukraine is fighting and Ukraine lives."
14) A reporter suggested Europe is arresting Americans for exercising free speech and thought crimes.
15) After 40 minutes, VP JD Vance decided to blow things up. He asserted that diplomacy would solve this dispute. Zelensky countered that he signed a ceasefire agreement with Putin in 2019. He broke the ceasefire and refused to exchange prisoners despite promising to do so. "What kind of diplomacy are you talking about, JD, what do you mean?" Vance responded that diplomacy would end the destruction of Ukraine and then accused Zelensky of being disrespectful. He added that Ukraine is using conscripts. Zelensky asked if Vance has ever been to Ukraine, and Vance responded that he has watched what is happening.
16) Vance then accused Zelensky of attacking the administration that is trying to help his country. This is absurd. There was no attack by Zelensky. The conversation up to this point was frank, bbut polite and respectful.
From this point on, we all know what followed.
My view is that until Vance's attack, Trump was actually enjoying the exchange. I also think he ws sincerely interested in negotiating an end to the war, but Vance has a bug up his ass about Ukraine and Europe and would prefer to just let them all rot away.
66 comments:
Don’t forget that trump is still trying to get a quick deal to nail down a chance at a Nobel prize, and take credit for ending war, he doesn’t care what Russia does to Ukraine after he gets his deal…..it was a set up.
Bernie Zelensky meet with the progressive democrats Friday morning the talker was murphy a very left-wing Senators These left wing people advised Zelensky to not sign the mineral deal Remember Zelensky campaigned for Biden in October right here in PA.So here we go again the left wing democrats screwing up foreign affairs. The left wing is evil.
Agreed. Zelensky was in shock. I was in shock. I have never seen such a horrible attack on a leader of a country that was invaded by a dictator like Putin. And the conscripts comment? Oh, how privileged are we now, the good old USA...who doesn't use drafts anymore. But yes, there was a time when the USA had a draft, and there was a time when American lives were called to fight against tyranny and aggression (WWI, WWII, Vietnam) We had "conscripts"...why can't Ukraine? And the concept of defending your country? Since when was that no longer in vogue? Of course Zelensky wants and end to the war...he wants his borders back, he wants Russia out. I hope the EU steps it up now and says, hey, we watched many episodes of Shark Tank, and we will make a better offer than Mr. Wonderful. We'll give you guarantees in exchange for your mineral rights. F U President Chump. If Trump wants to "end the war", if Trump wants "peace", he can make 'great television' by grabbing that microphone and tell Putin to withdraw from Ukraine now.
Bernie the left media is this country is failing look at CNN, the Washington post, and most other left wing media outlets, They are all dying. If you keep up the nonsense you write the same will happen to your left wing blog. Zelensky is a left wing politicians who listens to left wing politicians from the United States.Zelenskr meet with Senator Murphy who by the way lied about his service in Viet Nam. Murphy tried to set Trump up for failure by telling Zelensky not to sign the mineral deal. The progressive left in out country are traitors and you side with them.
We finally have an administration that will stand up for America and not let us be taken as fools. Thank the lord for giving us Trump.
Zelensky made a big time mistake for his people by not going along with Trump. President Trump would have made a deal that would have been good for Ukraine but the comedian blew it probably because he was listening to the progressive politicians in our country and they are NEVER right on foreign affairs.
There’s nothing I hate more than misguided editorial writers, uneducated US Senators and a bunch of neophyte bloggers who know nothing about history with a resulting misconception of world powers and conflicts. Yes, Putin is bad! He is pure evil! You understand to rid the world of his presence will require a war of unbelievable length, investment and human loss.
After World War II, It was recognized by all the experts in international affairs that we lived in a bipolar world split into US and USSR interests. When you looked at nuclear arsenals, weapons were evenly split between the two superpowers. It was assumed that when the USSR ended and was broken up that the US assumed the sole position of the top world power. Not so. Russia inherited the USSR nuclear stockpile. With a leader committed to the devil sitting on an unbelievable inventory of destruction the world is still a bipolar configuration.
Who calls the shots ? Let’s examine the inventory of nuclear war heads
Russia. 5,899
USA 5,244
China 410
N Korea 30
UKRAINE 0
Source ICAN ( There are five other countries with small amounts)
There are brainless people in this country who really believe that despite all of Putin’s evil that he has a thread of morality that will prevent him from using nuclear weapons. Dream on, fools!
When Putin threatened to use nuclear after Western nations increased weapon support, the war ceased to be the sole property of Ukraine. The responsible move is to bring the war to an immediate end. That should be the mature role of the U.S. Call Putin all the names that you want, but the appropriate role for the U.S. is to seek a cease fire. Our advantage in any negotiation is knowing the dirt ball sitting across from us.
Trump is wrong. It’s not a matter of holding the cards. It’s being able to cover the ante and the Ukraine lost that play long ago. The U.S. has one responsibility to insure that nuclear war is off the table. Ukraine should either yield or get out of the way.
The sad reality is that Ukraine will end in a negotiated settlement very soon, or will be forced into a unconditional surrender later. All parties need to face reality soon.
Congratulations! Nice to read a more thoughtful examination of this topic. A review without all the unjustified name-calling and baseless claims against someone you have made quite clear you detest.
I would like to add a few additional considerations. Most importantly, my belief you simply can’t end the killing while continuing to fund more killing.
I believe Ukraine has earned its reputation as a very corrupt operation. In a recent interview someplace, I recall Zelenskyy admitting he even has no idea where one billion of our dollars went. We must also admit wars are big business and can be profitable for some . . . including elected officials.
We are now told, Chris Murphy (CT) as part of a Congressional delegation that met with Zelenskyy admitted that group advised Zelenskyy to be very hard on Trump. NONE of us know exactly what was said in private that day between Zelenskyy and Trump, nor at any other private times.
I fully believe Trump is right in not wanting to involve our troops in combat. If we are to believe the polls, 70% of American citizens agree with him.
Here’s my suggestion.
NO American troops on the ground in Ukraine.
NO American funding for materials of war in Ukraine.
A firm commitment from America to provide HUMANITARIAN AID and assistance with rebuilding infrastructure. All such aid to be thoroughly monitored and controlled by America. Any American financial aid to begin 60 days after a Ukraine/Russia Treaty is signed.
UK's ambassador to US stated very clearly yesterday that despite what happened Friday, Ukraine must accept Trump's proposal if it wants peace and and an end to the carnage. UK hasn't the money or the will to pick up the ball. Europe hasn't lived up to a single promise it made re: support for Ukraine. Biden blew up at Zelenskyy at least twice over Zelenskyy's arrogance, lack of respect, and refusal to utter a single thank you for the hundreds of billions he received from US taxpayers. Zelenskyy rolled eyes and snorted and sniffed for 40 minutes in the Oval Office before things went south on Friday. He should hold elections and give up his dictatorship. That's what democracies do. But he's not running anything close to a democracy. That could be why 40% of his males of military age have left his country. You show him more respect than his citizens who know him well.
Did you forget that President Obama sent much needed blankets and sheets to help Ukraine in defeating the Russian assault on Ukraine's democracy?
Trump and Vance are Russian stooges. And for MAGAts who are so fashion conscious and critical of a physically fit war hero like Zelensky dressing like a soldier, perhaps if he showed up with dyed blonde hair and a fake tan like your your fat ass President and wearing eye liner like his pudgy VP, you'd have been less critical. After all, that's how real confident masculine men groom themselves.
Most Americans are tired of hearing about Ukraine and Zelensky. Period. We are done caring about other places across the globe when we have our own problems.
The whole clash reminded me of a WWF/E event where a "spontaneous conflict" would erupt between a few wrestlers and a manager or two backstage, away from the ring, yet the cameras and appropriate lighting just happened to be set up to capture it all.
In diplomacy and business and life, the best deal is often the one you don't make. Trump didn't start any wars and he achieved several peace treaties. He's spoken repeatedly about the horror of nuclear war and the hundreds of thousands of soldiers and innocents who have already died. He deserves the benefit of the doubt. But go ahead and say naive things like, "I stand with Ukraine." That virtue signalling is fine until you are asked how much blood and treasure it will take, and what victory and/or peace look like. How convenient. How virtuous.
your take wasn't worth anything
I also have watched several times and agree with your assessment. I would add there was confusion on Zelenskyy face with some of the language, e.g. “you don’t have any cards to play” and he responds, “ I’m not playing a card game”. I later watched the Bret Baier interview and saw the same language issue. During this interview he looked to a translator for help
You need to read, really read carefully, J.D. Vance's book: "Hillbilly Elegy" . After reading and comprehending it; give us your HONEST opinion of the man who is our Vice President, and will become the 48th President of the United States.
I really think you should ponder more on how we got here...
https://x.com/JohnStrandUSA/status/1896397206057611695
"There was no attack by Zelensky. The conversation up to this point was frank, bbut polite and respectful. "
Tell me you didn't watch the entire meting without telling me you watched the entire meeting. There was 30+ minutes of eye rolling and snorting that preceded Zelenskyy getting bodied by Vance. Zeleskyy treated Biden and Blinken the same way. Biden hung up on him at least once, and perhaps twice. You should watch the entire proceeding before scrawling nonsense about prolonging a war with others' children and money. This is some of your sloppiest work. Have you ever called for peace talks during your cheerleading over the last three years? A Lexus Nexus search comes up empty on that question. But here you are again. Good grief.
To me it's very apparent Trump has no peace plan just like he had no healthcare plan back in his first term. So he had to orchestrate this trying to make Zelenskyy look at fault.
The Ukrainian leader made it clear for months without security grantees it's useless to agree to any anything when it comes to Putin's repeated broken agreements. All Trump offered was to take twice as much in mineral revenue as the U.S. laid out. Nothing other then that. Trump and the gang didn't ask a thing of Putin in the way of compromise.
Then went on to say Zelenskyy didn't want peace. Are you kidding me! Ukraine didn't invade Russia. The easiest path to peace is for Trump's pal Putin to simply back off.
When did Putin and America become lovers? Imagine if a democratic president did this? Hillary and Kamala were right about everything regarding Trump and Putin. So sad that Putin and Musk know all our country's cyber info.
Based on your logic -- if we were ever invaded you would let other countries decide what's best for us?
Amy Klobuchar on CNN right now saying that Zelensky stopped Putin and the Russians from rolling through the rest of Europe.
This is the ignorance that permeates Democrat thinking.
Where is the evidence that Putins intent is to roll through the rest of Europe?
your reasoning is VERY weak ... they've largely destroyed the Russian army and not a single boot of our's on the ground, so now we stop supporting them? you're a real dipshit!
whatever happened in the past is irrelevant to the current situation
we do have our own problems, but this is literally an ounce of prevention (has cost us next to nothing)
just lay down for the dictator ... Trump is a very weak person and has zero empathy or remorse in this situation
he may have written a good book, but it doesn't reflect who he is ... he's just an opportunistic vulture with no integrity whatsoever
you're exactly right .... the ball has been in Russia's court all along
decades ago, when Trump was deep in debt
you are an asshole
Only Trump can do what he does He is not one your stupid politicians.
That was a big partisan meeting. I believe Lindsy Graham attended that.meeting just to name one.
Sorry, but Trump DID offer a peace plan. Trump was the first world leader to make the move toward peace over there. Trump reminded all of us, to achieve a peace plan, the fighting parties need to START a peace plan! What final details are in the peace plan is strictly between Ukraine and Russia. It is those nations who will hopefully come to terms to the mutual satisfaction of both Ukraine and Russia. Trump, like all of us here, can comment and express his preferences.
I’ve got to say, all of you AUTOMATIC TRUMP HATERS are too quick to condemn any and everything Trump does. Give more thought before you pounce.
Here's the answer to what happened on Friday: Prior to the Oval Office meeting, Zelensky met with democrats who told him not to take the deal (per Senator Chris Murphy; D-CT).
Here's the question you should now be asking:
Why are the democrats so against peace and prosperity for America?
It's very relevant. Obama's refusal to arm Ukraine helped create the atmosphere for the subsequent invasion. At one point, Trump noted that Obama provided sheets while he provided javelins. That is true.
Isn't it something that Trump's talking about World War III and it's not clear what side he thinks we should be on?
Got it. Putin has the upper hand on Trump. I guess we should yield and get out of the way?
I don't think you understand what "inherit" means, Vlad.
We have winner folks. This is exactly what Trump wanted to feed his base. Reality mixed with some good ol' pro wrestling theater.
Vance has done more as Veep in five weeks than Emhoff's wife accomplished in four years.
Maybe(especially in this matter) get the facts straight. Anonymous 1:18am is absolutely correct. He met with and was egged on byDemocrats who hate Trump. The entire video also includes Zelenskyy with his eyerolliing and smirking. He had no intention of signing the agreement and he knew he could make a spectacle in front of the viewing public. It is so sad that this actor has you fooled too.
Hate sells. Especially to trump supporters
Yes, he's a special kind of stupid
Did you catch he part where Trump claimed Zelensky started the war? Don't think the left had any part of that nonsense. Keep following the felon blindly
Next president? no need to say scary things here
Trump gave Russia NOTHING Obama, Bush and Biden all gave land to Putin How about you democrats who lie all the time. Print this Bernie
Zelensky Now says the war will go on for a long time as reported by the AP This type of leader Ukraine needs.
You're sick!
I thought I watching another Godfather sequel. Trump's best personal days are long behind him. He looked like an obese bumbling old man for most of the meeting until Vance's rudeness touched off the unfortunate ending. This Don cares little about anything other than his vain self image and finding a way to get a cut of the action for his own ends.. A mineral deal in the US interest that Trump could have taken credit for was probably ready to be made until Vance opened his ignorant mouth. That deal still may be possible if Vance and the fools who claim Zelensky was violating some White House dress code that Elon Musk is always welcome to ignore get out of the way. The real remaining issue is the regional security question that no one wants to deal with. Who guarantees that once Ukraine surrenders a large chunk of territory, Putin will not later try to take more of Ukraine or other former lands once controlled by the Soviet Union? The fat mobster wanna be may claim he wants peace but in the next 3 plus years he may yet be required to put active US muscle into the region to stop Putin and his gang. In the shorter run what is even the Don's plan to protect the US contractors hauling away the mineral loot? A sad day for the US, Ukraine and any part of the world who see Putin for what he is.
If you want to observe the mentality of a MAGA supporter then just drive across the Delaware River into Phillipsburg, NJ. Many of the Phillipsburg residents are collecting some kind of welfare, collecting food stamps and are living in Section 8 housing. And yet these same people have the Trump signs and flags flying. These are the groups that Trump/Musk want to wipe out and yet they still worship this "dynamic duo". I do not get it.
You don’t understand the post. Diplomatic history in the twentieth century among the two superpowers is to avoid direct conflict. The risk of nuclear war is the referee. We didn’t help Hungarian revolutionaries. USSR removed missles from Cuba. And the list is long consisting of antagonism and supporting proxies in multiple conflicts. Both sides knew when to withdraw and avoid Armageddon. It has nothing to do with Putin. I remember being in elementary school and having to go through air raid exercises every two months. How to bury your face so you didn’t suffer radiation burns. Read Hiroshima by John Hersey. He adequately describes the effect of a very low yield bomb. It’s the nukes. It’s always been the nukes.
Let me summarize Bernie’s opinion on anything related to Trump;
Trump, bad.
Really no need to bore us with 16 paragraphs of predictability.
That’s what CNN is for.
Really? His English seemed fine when he was telling us how safe we are with an ocean between us and Russia. His English seemed fine when he was telling us how a peace deal wouldn’t work.
And if he didn’t understand, why continue to dig a hole? They could have been speaking in Portuguese and I could have sensed the vibe in the room had changed. Is Zelensky that clueless? I don’t think so.
He could have also read the look on his ambassador’s face, who clearly saw what he was doing and had her face in her palm since she knew what the repercussions would be.
The last thing Zelensky wants is peace. As long as there is conflict with Russia, he remains relevant.
As soon as peace occurs, he will be voted out of office and relegated to obscurity. That’s if he allows an election.
And many of us dont understand you
How are Trump’s bone spurs doing with all these hours on the golf course? Ya know, the ones that got fat ass his deferment from Viet Nam??
Don’t you dare blame the Lord for Trump!!
Now hearing that Trump changed the Netflix password and Zelenskyy will have to beg for someone else's. It just keeps getting worse for him. Trump is mean.
Putin took land under Bush, Obama, and Biden, and is afraid of Trump, so get a cease fire and negotiate a fair end to the war.
I would be very concerned if I were an intelligence officer that our state secrets and identities were being shared with Russia now that we are changing sides.
If you are a British intelligence officer how can you share intel with the U.S. right now and be confident it will not be broadcast to Russia?
So you agree to a deal, meet with Dems who hate Trump before signing the deal, and you walk into the White House dressed like Arrafat, with an attitude. Billions unaccounted for, weapons sold on the black market for pennies on the dollar, 1/3 of your country destroyed, millions killed/injured-and the bloodshed continues. When you lose Lyndsey Graham, you lost Zelinsky's biggest supporter!
I understand. You are letting your emotions get in the way of your argument. As soon as Putin rattles the saber the world should throw themselves at his feet? Stop twisting yourself into a pretzel trying not to contradict yourself.
"We call on the United States to uphold the guarantees made alongside Great Britain in the 1994 Budapest Memorandum, which established a direct obligation to defend Ukraine’s territorial integrity in exchange for its relinquishment of nuclear weapons. These guarantees are unconditional—there is no mention of treating such assistance as an economic transaction.
Signed,
Lech Wałęsa, former political prisoner, President of Poland"
Oh Lech, you just have to adjust to the fact that Ukraine and you are just being added to the list of "saps and suckers". Otherwise you're just another "hater" who doesn't understand reality. You and Mr. Z will just have to adjust to the new reality, and forget about the purposeful starving to death of millions in Ukraine by Russia in the 30s, the promises broken with an invasion in 2014, and the more recent murders, rapes, and destruction of Ukraine. I'm sure the Great Orange One's crush will treat you well if you just see who holds all the cards. Kind of like when the Nazis held all the cards when cleaning out the Jewish ghettoes.
6:17 = yellow-bellied coward. Ukraine are an honorable people who are being viciously attacked on the doorstep of Europe. You would have us bow down, even though we have the means to help Ukraine defend itself? Craven sh!t.
7:09, our #1 problem is the stupidity of MAGA voters. No joking.
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