Back when Rome was a republic, its executive power was vested in two counsels who could serve only a year and who could veto each other. That changed as cults of personality chipped away at tradition until it was left with Emperor Caesar Augustus. He insisted he be called First Citizen, but was a tyrant. Mostly benevolent, but a tyrant nonetheless. Executives on all levels of government tend to want more power than the actually have, and the legislative branches of government often roll over and cede their oversight roles. So much as I like the idea of student loan forgiveness, I am leery of President Joe Biden's decision to accomplish that feat via executive order instead of through Congress. We fought the Revolutionary War to free ourselves from the shackles of a King, but legislatures have an appalling tendency to abdicate any oversight. Besides, the real problem is the outrageous tuitions charged by colleges that now like to call themselves universities. Granting student loan forgiveness will just give them an excuse to demand more money.
When I was a college student, my semester tuition was about $1,100. I could afford it by working a part-time job. Law school was even cheaper.
Susan Dynarski, herself a college professor at Harvard College University, reports a similar experience:
"College used to be nearly free. My older sisters went to the University of Massachusetts Boston in the mid-1970s, when tuition and fees for in-state residents were about $600 a year. To be clear, that $600 paid for an entire year of coursework, not just for a single class. In today’s dollars (after accounting for inflation) that is equivalent to $3,605. Yet by 2022, in-state residents paid nearly $16,000 in tuition and fees to go to UMass Boston.
In 1970, it would have taken 375 hours at the Massachusetts hourly minimum wage of $1.60 to earn the $600 required to attend UMass. Those hours easily fit into a summer of work or a part-time job during the school year.
By contrast, today it would take three times as long (over 1,100 hours!) at the state minimum wage of $14.25 to earn the $16,000 required to attend UMass. In some other states, where the minimum wage is $7.25 but the tuition rate is similar, this calculation looks much worse.
Dynarski goes on to conclude that student loan forgiveness is therefore justified. But she totally misses the real problem - out-of-control tuition costs. I support college loan forgiveness, but this problem will just worsen until lawmakers start demanding justifications for tuitions and their increases from "universities" that are already well-endowed and do a shitty job of placing students after they graduate.
I attended a college graduation ceremony this Spring, and was astonished by some of the ridiculous degrees conferred in subjects that will do nothing to help the graduate find a job. So in addition to demanding tuition justifications from a state-appointed board, colleges should be required to guarantee placement of all graduates at a designated salary within six months of graduation. If they fail the student who works hard to get a 3.0 GPA, they should be required to return all tuition money paid and assume responsibility for any outstanding loan.
More students say the job placement offices at their schools fail.
ReplyDeleteClearly an unconstitutional abuse of power in a quest to retain and enhance political power. Just another chip into what was once a great country, now a joke.
ReplyDeleteDon't you mean. WOKE
DeleteSo your solution is just more government action. The best way to control tuition, is no subsidies and no loans. It is no longer a market economy, do you believe this forgiveness will lower tuition. no it will raise tuition.
ReplyDeleteYour last paragraph is absolutely ridiculous.
ReplyDeleteHow about colleges offer degrees that students are willing to take because they want to learn about the subject. It is the students responsibility to determine whether the degree will convert to a career. Its a choice THEY need to make. Guidance counselors used to teach this to students in HS.
What career are you interested in? What colleges offer that education? Where can you afford to go? Then the student and parents decided what was best for them. What is the long-term goal? Were they willing to take on the debt?
Today, we choose colleges for student life opportunities. Who has the best Saturday afternoon football tailgates? Where are the best fraternity associations? Who is ranked highest in "party schools"?
If those are your key factors, then shame on you. Good luck with your choices, but leave the whinny regret to yourselves.
Perhaps Presidents (of either party) would not have to wield the Executive Order so much if the two branches could work TOGETHER instead of displaying the obstructionist tendencies of the recent past.
ReplyDeleteCongress seems hell bent on not letting a President achieve a "win" at any cost.
A few points:
ReplyDelete1) "So much as I like the idea of student loan forgiveness, I am leery of President Joe Biden's decision to accomplish that feat via executive order instead of through Congress."
But that's what fascists do. Why get approval from Congress to forgive student loans? Why get Congress to change immigration laws? And it's not just the President. When was the last time the democrat-controlled Congress actually proposed and debated on a budget?
2) "But she totally misses the real problem - out-of-control tuition costs."
More on this later, but you actually correctly identify the problem, but then in the next breath say...
3) "I support college loan forgiveness..."
Forgiveness means paid for by us! Why should anyone else pay for what was a private transaction entered into by two consenting parties? Should someone pay for their neighbor's loan on their Mercedes because of the payments are more than they can now afford? Should I have my mortgage paid for by others because the home I want will take me forever to pay for? Should someone have their restaurant bill paid for by others because they don't want to pay for the steak and lobster meal they ordered (and ate)? You get the point.
4) "...but this problem will just worsen until lawmakers start demanding justifications for tuitions and their increases from "universities" that are already well-endowed and do a shitty job of placing students after they graduate.
The cost of college is out-of-control because the government is involved. This is the result of government trying to make college more affordable. Re-read those two sentences until you understand that.
And since you mention college endowments, you are correct. It's been a few years since I went through this exercise, but based on their own financial figures available online places like Harvard could not charge a dime in tuition for the next 30 years and still survive based on the amount of cash and investments on their balance sheets. That applies to a lesser extent (between 22-27 years) for local colleges like Lehigh or Muhlenberg. And yet they still get government money each year.
5) "So in addition to demanding tuition justifications from a state-appointed board, colleges should be required to guarantee placement of all graduates at a designated salary within six months of graduation."
So the answer to a government created problem (out-of-control tuition costs) is expanding government influence to oversee job placement? Please go back and re-read the first two sentences in my response to item #4.
If colleges are making promises to students that are false, there is already a remedy for that - you take them to court. A former lawyer should know that. I suspect the reason that you don't see such lawsuits is that the reason some are not making as much as they'd like to has more to do with their own decisions than anything the colleges are doing. But that goes back to personal responsibility, which seems to be in short supply in this discussion.
Or it might go back to the fact that our public education system isn't preparing students well enough for college-level learning. In many cases, college has become additional grades of high school. Employers aren't going to pay someone college-level salaries for high-school level work, even if you have a degree. But the failure of the public education system (K-12) is a whole other discussion.
6) You mention that you are "astonished by some of the ridiculous degrees conferred in subjects that will do nothing to help the graduate find a job."
Who is CHOOSING to pursue those degrees? If I go to the grocery store, should my grocery bill be forgiven because I chose to shop in the candy aisle instead of buying healthy foods? Again, personal responsibility. One political party in particular thrives on making us dependent on government, so that CAN'T be the answer, right?
8:12 yes indeed, use of executive actions will only increase as long as parties are obstructionist as a goal and not deliberative with the common good of the people as the goal. Also, one would think that state governments should at least have some power over regulating tuitions at state run or state affiliated universities. So why aren't they doing anything? It seems that the state gives them budget increases on a fairly regular basis, but are there any strings attached that require tuition controls at the very least?
ReplyDeleteAs I usually recommend whenever this comes up.. vocational tech school. The most bang for the buck. Plus you don't lose two or more years of earnings you could have made while biddle bopping around a college campus.
ReplyDeleteAnon 8:12 said:
ReplyDelete"Perhaps Presidents (of either party) would not have to wield the Executive Order so much if the two branches could work TOGETHER instead of displaying the obstructionist tendencies of the recent past."
How about if you can't get enough votes in Congress, you don't have the support you need to implement (or change) a law or policy?
I constantly hear about "protecting our democracy", unless that means that what those people want can't get passed by the people's elected representatives (that's what democracy is).
I would prefer if our politicians would focus on things that have wide public support and would therefore get more than enough support in Congress. That means that a party simply obstructing a popular solution would face defeat from their own party's voters as well as the other party's.
If their proposals don't have that kind of public support, maybe it's not the right solution. Or maybe it's not good enough to replace the status quo. Keep working on it or keep making the case for those solutions until they do. Until that happens, abide by the laws and policies already passed.
That would avoid much of the political division that we see today, and would probably keep our politicians focused on working on what's truly important to the people.
It's not the job of a college to find work for graduates. It's the job of a college to educate. The education achieved is solely dependent upon the person going to college. The knowledge is there for the taking.
ReplyDeleteWhere colleges go astray is incubating wackadoo thinking like preferred pronouns. This is real and these lunatics believe that one can simply select their gender like they do their favorite strain of cannabis. What's worse is that anyone who doesn't bend a knee to this tyrannical thinking is labeled a phobe or a bigot.
So, you have young people trained to live in a make believe world and when they get to the real world and attempt to find lucrative work that puts up with their nonsense the bubble bursts. The real world doesn't care what your made up pronouns are or any of your safe space rules. Knowingly hiring people who are outwardly intellectually deficient is a recipe for disaster. Many of these safe space denizens chose academic pursuits that don't translate into lucrative work.
The great philosopher Snoop Dogg said it best: If you stop at general math then you are only going to make general math money.
Let’s not forget a critical mid term election is coming up. It’s possible, the Democrats will lose control of Congress (and I hope they do). 8:44 AM makes excellent points. I will add, loan forgiveness of this type and method is clearly an effort to “buy” votes for Democrats who tend to vote in lockstep on every issue, no matter how radical and controversial. Local example, Susan Wild.
ReplyDelete"It's not the job of a college to find work for graduates. It's the job of a college to educate. The education achieved is solely dependent upon the person going to college. The knowledge is there for the taking."
ReplyDeleteWhen colleges charge the exorbitant tuitions that they do, there's an implicit guarantee that you are getting more than an education, but a job as well. As I said before, any college that fails to place a 3.0 student in his field of study within six months of graduation should be required to return all tuition paid. Moreover, tuition increases should be regulated by a state board. I actually know a college in California (the name escapes me) that does offer this guarantee.
Oh Bernie, stop! So, by your logic a kid who gets a 3.0, but doesn’t get a job because he/she is unmotivated gets his/her money back? Baloney. This country is failing because we have taken away motivation and pride by handing out things. Work for something, pay off a debt and the reward feels damned good. Ed Rendell was ahead of his time when he wrote a Nation of Wusses.
DeleteIt's interesting how liberals respond to the price of goods. If we're talking gasoline, health care or utilities, they demand price controls. If we're talking "education," they demand we throw more money at the "problem."
ReplyDeleteBernie, you are way out of touch. If I go to college, I get a degree. It is up to me to earn the degree, get experience and find a good job. Sure, colleges can help with that, but to put the onus of a set salary on the college is dumb.
ReplyDeleteCo-op programs work great, but it is up to the student to beat down doors to find a good one. That same rule applies to getting their first "real" job.
Likewise, students should shop around. Why pay $70k per year for a degree when you can get the same piece of paper for $25k or $30k per year. After 2-3 years in your first job, experience usually outweighs the name at the top of the degree. It really doesn't pay to spend upwards of $300K for a college degree, no matter how you slice it.
9:01 "I would prefer if our politicians would focus on things that have wide public support and would therefore get more than enough support in Congress. That means that a party simply obstructing a popular solution would face defeat from their own party's voters as well as the other party's."
ReplyDeleteExcept that isn't happening because of gerrymandering and special interest money. There are many policies right now that poll with overwhelming support of the American public, but right now Republicans have made themselves the party of "no". Gun issues, universal health care, child care, paid sick leave, closing tax loopholes on wealthy individuals and others all have majority support of the public. However, gerrymandering helps keep incumbents in power as does the money handed out by special interests and corporations that oppose those policies (I see you Joe Manchin). Yes, we live in a democracy, for now. But because of money in politics, gerrymandering, and, let's not forget, more restrictive voting rules (passed in only Republican controlled states) we will be lucky to hold on to it for much longer.
"implicit guarantee". That's classic. Have you actually gone to college?
ReplyDeleteI have said this for a long time. Why has college tuition gone up at 3 or 4 times the rate of inflation over the last 30 years? Nobody asks that question! Because they know they have these kids getting guaranteed government backed loans and they can get away with it. There should be no student loan relief without cost controls implemented at any college accepting government backed student loans.
ReplyDeleteJust look at Elizabeth Warren making 400K to teach a couple of classes back in 2011. Her husband made 402K as a professor at Harvard in 2018. She wants ALL student loans forgiven by the government. The height of hypocrisy if you ask me. Maybe take 100K a year to teach a few classes instead of 400K and the tuition won't be so high LOL.
@11:15 LOL. Majorities in this country overwhelming support voter ID. Only 13% support total universal health care and the abolishment of private medical insurance according to a Hill/Harris X poll. You tend to stretch the facts there a little LOL.
ReplyDelete11:36 Hmmm....might want to check your facts again: https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/trackers/support-for-universal-health-care
ReplyDeleteRegarding Voter I.D., it has majority support as long as access is EASY TO OBTAIN.
Years ago we were touring college campuses to see which one my daughter attend. More then a few posted expected earnings for each course they'd select. Most were greatly exaggerated. Wonder if they'd care to back them up by putting it in writing? Misleading at best.
ReplyDeleteAnon 8:44 said:
ReplyDelete"If I go to the grocery store, should my grocery bill be forgiven because I chose to shop in the candy aisle instead of buying healthy foods?"
Slightly off topic to the original post, but I read today that more Americans than ever are using buy-now, pay-later apps to pay for groceries (in addition to traditional credit cards). Even Chipotle is offering people the opportunity to buy their food with 25% down and pay off the rest over six weeks.
That's not a good sign of how things are going right now in the USA, and a sad statement on how far our country has fallen economically in just the last year and a half.
It's certainly not sustainable.
One has to wonder how long people will stand for it, and when THAT credit bubble will burst.
I think trades workers with no college and no college debt should feel privileged to pay off college for women's studies majors who are unfit to pump gas in the real world. Oh yeah, they need some scratch for a couple of abortions, too. Pay up working poors.
ReplyDeleteI am really mad that I am paying off a student loan for someone when I paid off my loan over 15 years. My loan amount coming out of college was equal to my first year annual salary but got it done by working hard & getting raises. These kids got loan forgiveness for 3 years & still not satisfied? This is a really bad decision for which I am incensed.
ReplyDeleteI just read that this will cost every taxpayer 2,500 dollars so these latte sipping cry babies can weasel out of paying their debt. Screw them, get a job and pay it off like I did.
ReplyDelete