"Recently adopted amendments to the Elections Code provide that all voters may vote using mail-in ballots or absentee ballots, both of which are on paper. See Pennsylvania Election Code - Omnibus Amendments, Act of Oct. 31, 2019, P.L. 552, No. 77, Cl. 25, Article XIII-D (2019) (codified at 25 P.S. §§ 3150.11 et seq.) Accordingly, any voter who wishes to vote on paper may do so."Judge Diamond has scheduled an evidentiary hearing on January 21. He's not interested in legal arguments, but wants testimony on a few very specific questions, including why Stein waited nearly a year before complaining and what effect a ban would have on the upcoming election.
Pfffft. Hear that? That's the sound of the air going out of the Stein balloon.
Sounds like a solution. BUT . . . .
ReplyDeleteNow the County needs to thoroughly explain, with step-by-step simulation, just HOW secure using a larger amount of paper ballots will be!
Let the public see every step of the process that will guarantee 99% of paper ballots will be VALID and ACCURATELY counted. Citizens need to be convinced any gaps/weak links along the way have been plugged-up.
Lay out the handling of ballots procedures far enough in advance to allow for public scrutiny and suggestions.
Look, we can no longer believe much of what any politician claims. It’s not nearly enough to hear a politician state “Don’t worry, everything is ready and secure.” PROVE IT while there’s still time to make any corrections. Trust in government is at an all-time low. We hold the same skepticism of the news media.
Just look at how politicians and news media have SCREWED UP our Congress!
We can longer trust the integrity of any elected official, We need a system that is foolproof and out of the hands of partisan politicians at any step of the process. We must insure that no one can get their hands into this system. While we have been distracted by the inference that the Russians are to be feared in our elections, the corruption is going on in our back yard.
ReplyDeleteYes, our nation’s internal corruption is a much bigger problem that overblown Russia claim.
ReplyDeleteFor some, they will never be convinced that votes are protected and counted correctly. Paper, electronic, a combination of both, colored marbles, or a show of hands.
ReplyDeleteThe people who complain of potential problems should volunteer to work the polls, observe the count, and escort the results to their destination, where they can observe some more.
What can be done to ensure the next election cycle using XL performs properly has already been mentioned.
An actual ballot loaded into machines and a mock election conducted that includes cross-voting, write-ins, and other scenarios the test voters might think of.
Monitor the screen and check the results.
"Look, we can no longer believe much of what any politician claims. It’s not nearly enough to hear a politician state “Don’t worry, everything is ready and secure.” PROVE IT while there’s still time to make any corrections. Trust in government is at an all-time low. We hold the same skepticism of the news media."
ReplyDeleteI agree and, for this reason, strongly encourage a pilot election similar to what Philly did with a sampling of machines and poll workers. This is in addition to more rigorous testing. The Philly machines each took exactly one hour to test. We have 320 machines, each needs to be tested rigorously.
our Vote is only as good as the person that counts it.
ReplyDeleteCore function 101 of our County government and basis for fair and legal election process .
In lehigh county they just pointed to a stack of ballots and said take one. There was no number place on the the ballot to coincide with the number when you sign in, there is nothing to stop people from taking more than one. It was a small election and it was chaotic with people all over filling out ballots, there was no way that people could be stopped from filling out more than one.
ReplyDeleteAfter watching the behavior of politicians in the last year, we cannot trust them, we have to have a fool proof or I should say a corruption proof system. If you watched what went on in the Kavanaugh hearings, the impeachment hearings so far and what is coming next, I am not hopeful we can have an honest election.
ReplyDeleteBernie, I agree. Thorough testing, well-beforehand, needs to be done. The POTENTIAL for monkey-business is greater than ever before. Many citizens don’t even want to consider what’s been going on in Washington, D.C., or the same behavior going on here, too. They are in denial.
ReplyDeleteRight now, the emerging issue is kick-backs to Members Of Congress by money laundering through places like Ukraine. Some in BOTH parties are being connected to this. Citizens have a right, even a duty, to be skeptical of the actions of politicians, and the reliability of information they receive.
I don't trust a voting system that prints out your original ballot than ask you to review it and cast your FINAL vote after it is already printed. Ass backwards in this humble opinion. What assurances is there if you change your original vote and recast your vote that the first one is not counted since it was printed ?
ReplyDeleteWell, you can cast your ballot at home with a paper ballot, thanks to no-excuse absentee voting. Your distrust is misplaced. We are dealing here with a voter-verified paper ballot. That is why you get a preview of your paper ballot. You are able to determine if it accords with your wishes. If you made a mistake in your selections or changed your mind, you can quit the ballot, and it will be ejected. At that point, you will be asked if you are sure you do not want to vote in accord with the choices on the paper ballot. If you do not, the ballot is marked spoiled (and this should be done in front of you) and is placed in a spoiled ballot envelope. You are given a new paper ballot with which to vote again. When you are asked if you are sure you wish to spoil your ballot, you can change your mind and decide that is the way you intended to vote after all. If that happens, you can reinsert your paper ballot and cast your vote.
ReplyDeleteThis is not ass-backwards at all. This is precisely as it should be.
"our Vote is only as good as the person that counts it.
ReplyDeleteCore function 101 of our County government and basis for fair and legal election process ."
I completely agree. I have the utmost confidence in our elections staff, and believe we are very lucky to have so many dedicated citizens who act as election judges. I am not talking about myself but a group of people who visited LC and several EC meetings on their own, and with no pay. These are by far the majority of the people I saw at voter demos. They care. Deb Hunter said we need better training, and I agree, but she also echoed my views on their dedication. The counting on election night should be done publicly. This is important so that the public has confidence.
Much of this has to do with public confidence. It was undermined by the human errors on election day. Now it is being undermined by the very people who should be ensuring we can conduct the best election possible. The elections commission registered a vote of no confidence without giving ES&S a chance to prove itself. A member of County Council is suing over these machines. Party bosses want the county to let a member of Jill Stein's team examine the machines, and have dishonestly called this person "independent." The Rs have insinuated undue influence in the purchase of the machines, without a single shred of evidence. They have ridiculously suggested union influence, which is absurd. All of this is irresponsible and undermines public confidence.
"Now the County needs to thoroughly explain, with step-by-step simulation, just HOW secure using a larger amount of paper ballots will be!"
ReplyDeleteThe decision to use no-excuse absentee voting comes from the state, and is a big and overdue change to the elections code. In addition, you can apply online. There is certain identifying information that must be produced when someone applies for an absentee ballot, and that is what will be required. Also, you will not be permitted to allow some party boss to collect your absentee ballot. You will have to file yourself, either by mailing in or handing to the elections office in person. To be sure my vote counts, I will hand in my ballot in person.
"Stein knew this system was among those being certified, yet waited nearly a year before complaining."
ReplyDeleteAt the time of certification how was Stein or anyone other than possibly the manufacturer suppose to know they are sub-standard?
Stein had to wait just like the rest of us, including those who purchased them and now have "no confidence".
The argument that the ExpressVote XL is substandard has been advanced in no court. The argument Stein makes is that it must be banned bc it uses barcodes. This is something she and her so-called experts knew well in advance of certification. Yet she waited a year. She is toast.
ReplyDeleteAnd I dispute the contention that the XL is substandard. On the contrary, I consider it the best system out there. What happened was a perfect storm of human errors. First, some of the machines were configured improperly. Second, there was a programming error. Third, the logic and accuracy testing failed. I can guarantee this will never happen again.
But you don't have to trust the machine. You can vote by mail.
"substandard"-below the usual or required standard.
ReplyDeleteThis would include machines that were configured improperly. Machines with programming errors. And machines that failed the logic and accuracy testing.
I agree that you make a stronger argument against the machines than Jill Stein, even without the Election committee's vote of "no confidence" as testimony.
We can be very sure, many results of the next election will be challenged. So long as these machines are still in use that door has been opened wide. Also doesn’t help to hear some of these units were handled by China.
ReplyDelete11:04, You apparently do not understand English or are illogical. If I have a Porsche but a person failed to install the engine at the factory, it is still a Porsche. It just needs the engine. Same with the XL. If someone programs the computer on a Porsche so the windows do not open, it is still a Porsche. It just needs the correct program. Same with the XL. There is nothing substandard about the XL. It is a superior machine.
ReplyDelete"We can be very sure, many results of the next election will be challenged. So long as these machines are still in use that door has been opened wide. Also doesn’t help to hear some of these units were handled by China."
ReplyDeleteIf no one challenged this election, which was flawed, I think it is highly unlikely top happen in the next, especially since the county will take every precaution it can to ensure that the XL runs flawlessly. In the meantime, Rs are trying to scare voters away, as they always do.
To use your car analogy, if I buy a brand new Porsche and it's seriously flawed, most people would think twice about keeping it and about ever buying another. There are features on the XL that are part of the design that are very concerning and won't go away even if they fix the current issues. Lasers across the screen that make it sensitive to ANY contact and can change or erase candidates selected. Paper printouts that take some close scrutiny to make sure votes cast are accurate. This is a bipartisan issue and calling it out is a right and duty of the public and officials. To not do so is anathema to democracy.
ReplyDeleteThe public perception about these machines will be very difficult to overcome. I liked the improvement of the user interface and hope the County can demonstrate they can be trusted. Admit it, the public has good reason to be overly concerned in light of what they see coming out of Washington to bring down a popular President.
ReplyDelete"To use your car analogy, if I buy a brand new Porsche and it's seriously flawed, most people would think twice about keeping it and about ever buying another."
ReplyDeleteAgreed. But the XL, the Porsche of voting machines, is superior. I worked with machines that were unaffected by the sensitivity issue and they were fine. The paper printouts appearing under glass do require you to read them. Can't help that. I believe there will be better lighting in the next election to make them easier to read.
"Admit it, the public has good reason to be overly concerned in light of what they see coming out of Washington to bring down a popular President."
Trump is far from popular. He is only popular among Rs. He is extremely unpopular among Dems, indies and even some Rs. In any event, Pelosi had nothing to do with the selection of the XL. The County Rs did. This was the choice of Lee Snover, who spoke in favor of the machine. Her sister and first cousin voted for it.
The point was, Pelosi rushed into a decision that many believe will actually work against her. Now, here you are criticizing Snover for being responsible for a decision you, too, support. Politics makes everything so upside down!
ReplyDeleteBy the way, when year-end statements on individual’s IRAs and 401(k)s come out in a couple weeks, Trump’s approval will surely rise. Americans tend to cherish two things, their FREEDOM and KEEPING THEIR MONEY.
Word play: Machines interior components made in China and the Philippines, not made in U.S.
ReplyDeleteMachines are assembled in U.S.
I have said this but have no credibility on this blog . Pay the residents that will handle the hours in this country. They get something and nobody can dispute authenticity of vote count , it’s all albout “trying to get automated “ make it faster ,make the people get home earlyer. Get the count in that evevaning . Horse shit , paper no machines, they can do them as they appear . peterjcochran
ReplyDeletePorsches are fancy and horribly unreliable. A Honda or Toyota provide solid performance and unmatched reliability. We bought fancy lemons. Mail your vote in. Thank you county. Not surprised at your three stooges performance. You always create the next expensive crisis. It keeps everyone in shoes.
ReplyDeletePeter, you know why you have no credibility. Quit complaining.
ReplyDeleteAmerica is doomed.
ReplyDeleteMcClure has given such condescending rah=rah speeches it is hard to take him seriously. I think people would prefer some honest no bullshot opinions from the council. McClure by nature and profession is a trained bullshotter.
ReplyDeleteMcClure the lesser of two evils..I suppose. He is what he is. We knew that when we voted for him. Thank the D party for hoisting him up the flag pole. This county has very little political savvy or honesty. Tell us the truth and we will deal with it. Stop the bs and maybe we can trust you from here on.
ReplyDelete