On December 19, the 20-member delegation of Pennsylvania's Electoral College will meet in Harrisburg to cast their votes for President Trump. Three of them - Mary Barket, Lee Snover and Peg Ferraro - will be from Northampton County.
Some have suggested that the Electoral College can be persuaded to vote for Hillary.
Dream on.
I've also heard that the Electoral College is a relic of our racist past and should be discarded. Without question, it gives added weight to many smaller states, just like the Senate. But its primary goal is to prevent a tyranny of the majority. We are a democratic republic, not a mobocracy.
Bullshit. I want my vote to count and my vote doesn't mean a hill of beans when you have an electoral college. This is the second time in twenty years where the person who receives the most votes, loses the presidential election. The other one was Al Gore, defeated by George Bush. What a disaster that administration was. The same is going to happen here. One vote....should count for something. This is one of the main reasons people won't vote for the presidency.
ReplyDeleteYeah, people don't vote to protest the electoral college. Rightyo. They don't vote bc they are lazy. Had this turned out the other way, you'd be singing a different tune. This is just sour grapes. This is actually at least the fifth time we've had a President who did not have a majority, including President Lincoln. Under the rules in place, Trump won fair and square. Stop being a crybaby.
ReplyDeleteNot sure "fair and square" why doesn't the electoral college violate the one man, one vote principle?
DeleteI favor the Maine Nebraska distribution
Bernie ,It matters where you live and how many folks that vote are in favor of some issue.Trump, J.Q.Adams,Hayes ,Harrison and I think G.w.Bush only ones that won without the 'popular vote' of 45-5 of 45 is what percent. Well- you would yell like hell if it was the other way maybe .Blame the farmers if you may but The National Popular Vote Interstate Compact would be a trainwreck .
ReplyDeleteWithout the electoral college, population centers, such as Los Angeles, New York City and Chicago would rule this nation. Look what the last 8-years have produced through population center's rule. HRC thought she could win through this principle, however, it failed her completely!
ReplyDeleteWhy didn't Democrats vote for this when they had 60 votes in the Senate and a nice majority in the House, circa 2009-2010? I guess that they were busy pushing ObamaCare through at any cost.
ReplyDeleteSecond, why didn't Mrs. Clinton state that she would not accept the presidency unless it came with a popular vote? I guess that walking the walk is not something that Democrats do
This "abolish" campaign will pass.
In a close election, Democrats usually count on California and New York for Electoral Votes. This is because of the large urban population centers of San Fransisco, Los Angeles and New York City.
ReplyDeleteIn the 2016 election, when California didn't push Hillary Clinton ahead in the Electoral Vote race, she knew she was in deep trouble. Especially after losing Florida and the upper Midwest. This is why the Pennsylvania and Michigan popular votes were so slow in being reported; the Democrats were holding up the count in order to "find" Clinton votes. Votes they couldn't manufacture in sufficient quantities. Yes, the "fix" was definitely IN
So now the Democrats cry out "lets get rid of the Electoral College" Let the popular vote decide. Well there are two problems with that.
There are never any certified popular vote results. We have unofficial calculations based on state results. There is no such thing as a certified final popular vote figure.
Also, it would take a Constitutional Amendment to get rid of the Electoral College. And the vast majority of states have Republican legislatures and Governors.
So sorry Democrats. Not going to happen.
It doesn't need an amendment. State law can split the vote
DeleteAs the previous poster said, there is NOTHING final about our popular vote total. MILLIONS of votes are thought to be invalid, falsely recorded and uncounted. At some point, a number is stamped as final, but that's about it.
ReplyDeleteThere is nothing wrong with the Electoral College. If it was removed, candidates would never visit or care about issues concerning 45 states. It serves a purpose as a counter balance between urban and rural areas.
ReplyDeleteThat said, both parties would be wise to accept the message that neither one's message or policies are working for a vast majority of this country's citizens. Despite the Electoral College results, Republican's should not delude themselves into thinking that the country wants or desires a hard right turn into conservative social and economic policies, while at the same time Dems need to understand that outside of 2 dozen or so population centers, extreme liberal policies don't really flush with most folks.
Based on early cabinet and advisor rumors, it appears that Trump will ignore the above, veer too far right and we'll see the Dem's regain power at some point and yank the steering wheel to the left yet again and history will repeat itself over and over.
Are absentee ballots actually counted?
ReplyDeleteBut its primary goal is to prevent a tyranny of the majority
ReplyDeleteIn other words, if the mob elects a lunatic President as some sort of protest vote.
Look what the last 8-years have produced through population center's rule.
ReplyDeleteA highly approved, thoughtful, and intelligent POTUS, 15 million jobs, and sustained ecumenic growth over 8 years? Horrendous.
So instead we have mobocracy of the minority of voters.
ReplyDelete"Are absentee ballots actually counted?"
ReplyDeleteAbsoutely. On election night, and again during the canvassing.
The arrogant professional pretenders from the cast of Hamilton deigned to lecture Vice President-elect Pence and his family on their supremacy to rights, advantages, and privileges in America. Built into their argument, I thought, was the fact that they thought that the Electoral College had once again called the election for the Republican.
ReplyDeleteLittle did they know, because little is what they know, that Hamilton himself had written the definitive Federalist #68 outlining why the small states would never ratify the Constitution if not for its guarantees in the equal number of Senators and the apportionment of electors for president. Otherwise, these small states like Delaware, Connecticut, South Carolina, and others would have been subsumed by the larger ones. Conceivably four--Virginia, Pennsylvania, New York, and Massachusetts--could carry every vote if not for these safeguards and the other nine states would have been rendered moot.
And that was why Delaware was the first state to ratify the Constitution.
So the caterwauling losers should look to their own namesake before they lecture us on the rights of our citizens.
Hamilton himself detested mobocracy. He and Adams would go too far in their disdain for the common man (ironically, they were common themselves) when they began employing the Alien and Sedition Act against government critics. They also detested dirty Irish immigrants (who could blame them?) and wanted citizenship denied to them for 14 years. Hamilton was either very right or very wrong in a lot of his thinking. Washington grounded him. After Washington passed away, Hamilton became increasingly virulent in attacks on others.
ReplyDeleteJefferson loved mob rule. A coward himself, he was a Jacobin who was more than willing to see head roll here and there. he promoted slave policies while pretending to be aghast at them.
I don't think it is the obligation of the electoral college to give the election to Clinton this cycle, but it should certainly be gotten rid of for the future. It discourages candidates from visiting non-swing states, and probably depresses voter turnout in the same states, as people often rightly believe their vote does not matter. When you mentioned, Bernie, that it was meant to prevent tyranny of the majority, you may be partly right that that was its intent, although I don't interpret over-representation of rural states as a check on the majority, but clearly this cycle we have found that it promotes tyranny of the minority, as we now have the party who won over the minority of voters controlling both houses of congress, and a president-elect who has been openly hostile towards 4/5 of the rights guaranteed in the 1st amendment alone.
ReplyDeleteWith respect to the argument that the EC is a relic of slavery, again preserving slavery may not have been its primary intent, but because the 3/5 compromise inflated the representation of southern states in Congress and the EC, it had that effect. The inflated representation of the south also disincentivized Congress from getting rid of the EC after it had become antiquated.
Bernie, you are probably aware of this individual, Tara Ross. She is off the foremost scholars Of The Electoral college as well as an historian. An excellent follow facebook, she delivers some great 5 minute history lessons http://www.taraross.com/category/electoral-college/
ReplyDeleteBernie,
ReplyDeleteI really don't want to do this butt you are better than leaving these same old toilet brigade and there gloryhole gatherer still pander there political arena agenda designs when there are much more local pressing unaddressed issues! These issues have been hampered and stifelled for the entire time that are in direct need of addressing and truely cureing, not some halfhearted poor attempt by a act of diversion?
REpublican redd
Not right or left just a humanist
12:56 I believe there are several other posts by Bernie that deal with local issues.
ReplyDelete1:50 pm
ReplyDeleteWould that be the answers to one, two and than the all infamous THREE? Simple answer to simple questions in the local political pandering parasitism, take for instance the turkey's for the turkey and only itZ collectivity of cohorts when the facts of the matter on has no need for more turkey's?
REpublican redd
HUMANIST by design
The so-called mandate is really not that big a mandate. If you look at any analysis the country is very polarized. The popular vote is fairly close. The senate is very close. The House of Representatives is really the result of years of gerrymandering and only represents the states. Since thirty of our states are controlled by Republicans the makeup of the House is not surprising.
ReplyDeleteHopefully President-elect Trump will realize that he faces a very divided nation and can be a horn for his partisans to blow or be the transformational figure he claims to be and free himself from the chains of partisan politics and build an American coalition.
We shall see.
so we get a tyranny of the Minority instead
ReplyDeleteWhat is a Tyranny of the minority? By the time everything is finished Trump may end up two million votes behind Clinton. Trump is certainly the President-elect, still it would make sense to note the numbers as you lay out the agenda.
ReplyDeleteRemember, Mitch McConnell declaring the main function of the Republican senate was to deny a second term to Barak Obama.