One of these naysayers is a regular contributor to this blog. He goes by the moniker VOR, i.e. Voice of Reason. He posted a comment yesterday, and I have to share it with one and all, especially since many readers stay away from the comments.
As a basic human need, water service should be a responsibility of governments. Transfer of control to a private entity that seeks to maximize profits reduces public accountability and can adversely affect the quality and equity of service.
* Water privatization can negatively impact low-income and underserved communities by unfair rate increases and poor service to these communities.
* Water privatization may lead to lower quality service and higher rates. In cases where communities have tried to reclaim their water systems from private entities, poor water quality, unresponsiveness to customer complaints, and rate hikes have been the most frequent complaints.
* Private multinational companies don't have a stake in the community in which they operate. This can have negative effects on small communities when it results in firing city employees and hiring new staff or significantly cutting benefits to long-time employees.
* Many privatization agreements fail to include adequate public participation. In addition, many of these contracts do not include enough provisions for contract monitoring and accountability.
* Many privatization efforts ignore the impact on local ecosystems and downstream water users, and may have long-term negative effects on the environment.
* Private companies, which stand to make more money for the sale of more water, may neglect the potential for water use efficiency and conservation improvements.
Think Allentown, THINK!
62 comments:
VOR is on target. I would also include that privatization schemes will increase water costs to local business and costs us jobs. '
I will not vote for any council member who votes for this plan. I encourage and I tend to vote Dem although I am certainly not a lock step Dem voter.
Nice work VOR.
Thank you sir.
Pete and Ray, your reading this. Come on guys.
Stand up and be men.
um, again, I don't care too much but.....private water all over the US. the world hasn't ended.
and I haven't heard anyone come up with an alternative for the pension gap?
Charge the landlords that supply housing to diruptive tenants? The uninhabatable hovels that officials allow landlords to rent contributes to police presence in the city. The fifty dollar tax is ludicrous.
Private water, Private Prisons, WHAT COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG???
Wake up Allentown and all those who are supplied . It is time for you to react and let Herr Polowski and his puppet council know that this latest act of mismanagement is the last straw.
Will the last person to leave Allentown please turn the lights off.
Can anybody tell me whether Allentown plans to make a fee for water run of during rain storms from properties into the street storm sewer system or allow the private company to charge the fee. Currently properties for sewerage and water purposes are billed for water recorded at the incoming meter. Infiltration of water into sanitary sewer system is not normally added on nor the runoff into the street storm drains. Whether or not the rumor I heard is just a rumor, the new fee woud be a calculation to cover this runoff from properties. In other words in Allentown yesterday's record breaking rain storm would come at a cost to the property owner and water and sewer consumer.
One thing to consider is that municipalities in financial stress don't maintain thrie water assets.
Allentown has generally keep up the facility, but the pension problem will cause reduced funds for maintenance.
Waterworld - the movie
Bernie-
Leaders who we admire because of their far-sightedness and their ability to make the correct calls during their watch are remembered down the line for all the right reasons. Bethlehem's Robert Pfeifle, who served five terms from the 20's to 1950 among other things, created the water system that serves the city and its environs. This system is the envy of all because it was planned well and because it remains in the control of the City since 1940. Prior to Wild Creek, the City obtained its water from the Lehigh River and some local ground water. Wild Creek and Penn Forest are pristine reservoirs, 25 miles north of the City in a protected watershed as large as Bethlehem (about 20 sq. miles). This high quality, reliable, plentiful resource helps make Bethlehem a desireable place to live and raise a family, and is right there with economic opportunity, a strong school system and healthcare as reasons to live in the City.
Then, there is Allentown.
If this goes through, what will Pawlawski be best remembered for? All I know is that the parks are degraded, the school system in in shambles, economic opportunity is poor and now, for short-tern gain, he is giving away control of the water system.
The hits just keep on coming.
If Allentown citizens do not impose their will on this guy and do it soon, all will be lost.
VOR
Anon said: "..private water all over the US. the world hasn't ended.
and I haven't heard anyone come up with an alternative for the pension gap?"
That deserves its own, special, dedicated solution, but should not be attached to a hair brained scheme. Long after the hair brained scheme is in place and that money is spent and Mayor EP is a distant memory, your town is stuck with a bad deal, the monies will have been spent and, oh yes, the pension gap is still there!
I will have more to say about the pension debacle, but suffice to say, it does require attention. The problem is- do you honestly think that leaders like the ones you have in office are capable of solving...SOLVING, the pension problem? I say respectfully and resoundingly, NO!
Why?
Because instead of looking at the big picture and fixing the inherent cause, they wish to slap a band aid on a problem that requires something far greater.
Obviously, Allentown cannot count on you because you think like the mayor and his minions. But thanks for all that deep thought.
VOR
@6:23 AM
Yes I can see you don't care too much.
You apparently don't read to much either.or hear too much, or listen too much.
You surely don't know too much. Your whole approach shows the depth of thought the Mayor and his rubber stamp lackys bring to the conversation.
Your an excellent example of the sheep who think this dirty quick fix is just fine and dandy.
The Mayor and Council must be proud to have supporters like you.
I think that bankruptcy would be a better option than this plan, at least we could renegotiate the pension scam that we are in. what really steams me is that they want me to pay more for water while I try to save for my own retirement while the pension plans that are killing us provide far more lucrative retirements than I or most readers of this blog will ever have. Disgusting.
"Obviously, Allentown cannot count on you because you think like the mayor and his minions. But thanks for all that deep thought."
delightful. and your version of a deep thought is "water is GOOOOD. we NEEEEED it! privatization is BAAAAD." That's the kind of searing logical insight one might expect of a tenth grade high school girl.
again, I say *yawn*. i lived all over the eastern seaboard. someplaces had private water, some had public. in the former the world didn't end.
@945: I never said I supported the deal. I'm asking questions. and i'm also asking we dispense with the (water is necessary for LIFE" hysteria.
makes it impossible for meaningful debate.
"...again, I say *yawn*. i lived all over the eastern seaboard. someplaces had private water, some had public. in the former the world didn't end."
But you don't say if you lived for any time in a city where all of the negative effects of privatization have come home to roost as pointed out earlier. For all we know, you get out of town when things get really bad, just like Ed the mayor plans to do.
My guess is that you are a council person, or maybe the mayor himself...
I dont use alotta water so i dont care.Dont own car washes,bottling plants or apartments.
Or a blog mentor.
1) Identify the places on the eastren seaboard where the water has been privatized and there have been no issues.
2) You're probably not paying much attention, I've gathered, and are here solely to make political points. But for those of us who care, the entire world is in the midst of a freshwater crisis, with demand doubling every 20 years. Now is the stupidest time to privatize. In the scale of governmental stupidity, it is right there with the swaption.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2010/10/08/the-race-to-buy-up-the-world-s-water.html
jersey?
funny....i ask questions, and you folks accuse me of just being here to score political points. you're using the same tactics that you abused fdaa for.
i really don't have a dog in the fight. i just don't think either side is addressing the real issues.
and no, i don't buy the "water is necessary for life" argument. food is also necessary for life, yet that has been delivered to us by the private sector for years, with no issues.
th real issues are a) is this the best method to deal with allentown's pension crisis in thwe short term; and b) what steps will allentown take in the interim to assure they're not back at this juncture down the road
one more resource ripe for exploitation.
10:42, The fact that you defend FDAA tells me all I need to know. By the way, you have not identified the places you've lived where water is privatized.
so with demand doubling every twenty years, now's a bad time to sell water assets?
Between 2000 and 2050, the number of aged people in the Us is projected to increase by 135%.
so it was a good time to sell a nursing home?
i can assure you I am NOT FDAA.
Um, You can't assure me of anything bc you are anonymous.
As for nursing homes, the trend is for people to stay in their own homes, not nursing homes. Federal and state governments are reducing the reimbursements. Throughout the country, public nursing homes are being sold.
But the biggest question, and a cause for concern, s whether there will be the same quality of care. That's why the Agreement of Sale was crafted with guarantees. There are no such guarantees in Allentown's water sale, just higher rates.
And you have not answered my question, yawn.
north carolina and ohio, for a start.
throw in Jersey. never lived there, but I have friends and associates who have private water systems.
add florida, if relatives count.
and anyone here grow up in Hanover Township, northampton County in the 60s and 70s? wasn't that a private water company (i might be wrong on that one, but i could swear it was a small private company).
problem with you folks is, JUST like Mayor Ed's folks, you can't understand that some people's opinions may legitimately differ from yours. reasonable minds may well differ...
you immediately seek to undermine their credibility. fact is, you can be just as polarizing and unreasonable as the folks you seek to castigate, and utilize the same methods
"There are no such guarantees in Allentown's water sale"
do you know that for a fact?
i didn't think proposals had even been submitted.
fact is, such guarantees COULD be provided for in the lease. whether it will is another issue.
and THAT is a legitimate point.
see how much better we get along, when you don't shout...
I'm not shouting. The notion of guarantees has not even been discussed bc it is not being considered. It should be discussed before proposalss are sought and should be in the RFP. It is not.
Ad you have not answered my question, yawn.
OK the guy is an ass. ( no water- no food A-ho ).
Doesn't buy that water is THE bottom line commodity or that water is necessary for life. So we know the asshole never lived in the South West. ( or Atlanta Ga. )
But this ass is performing a real public service with his breathlessly brilliant arguments : 1) This is the level of ignorance we are up against. 2) This fool is the best the other side can do.
How about someone --- anyone, Jennings, Riley, Julio, the Mayor himself, one of his religious buddies, step up to the batters box here---- on this blog where a couple thousand interested people are watching and tell us WHY THIS IS THE ONLY WAY TO GO.
I'm calling on the Mayor to send in his best argument,
Let's have it. Or is this ass the best they got?
I'm not shouting.
-it's a reference to The Agony and The Ecstacy. great movie. you should watch it
The notion of guarantees has not even been discussed bc it is not being considered.
-actually, you and I both don't know that
Ad you have not answered my question, yawn
-yes, I did
anon said: "and anyone here grow up in Hanover Township, northampton County in the 60s and 70s? wasn't that a private water company (i might be wrong on that one, but i could swear it was a small private company)."
It was called "Westgate Water" and it was a community well, owned by that famous entreprenuer Harold Campbell. The water quality was atrocious. It was unimaginably "hard" and needed to be treated expensively and continuously. Despite treatment, my pipes and appliances were compromised to the point that we had two water heaters, two washers and five shower heads before something miraculous happened. Know what that was, Einstein? The system was purchased by Bethlehem and now we have good water. Oh yeah, Bethlehem is municipally-owned.
Quit while you're ahead...
VOR
"OK the guy is an ass. ( no water- no food A-ho ).
Doesn't buy that water is THE bottom line commodity or that water is necessary for life. So we know the asshole never lived in the South West. ( or Atlanta Ga. )
But this ass is performing a real public service with his breathlessly brilliant arguments : 1) This is the level of ignorance we are up against. 2) This fool is the best the other side can do."
actually, my ad hominem attacking friend, it is YOU who have not made any argument. you've simply made the epistemological equivalent of someone shrieking "won't anyone think of the CHILDREN>>>>"
private water systems are literally all over the States, and Europe. the seem, by and large, to operate pretty well. (no pun intended)
and i'm not "on" the other side. no one is paying for my services, and I don't live in A-town, so I care not a fig, at the end of the day. I'm just sick of the histrionics propounded by cretins like you.
"Know what that was, Einstein? The system was purchased by Bethlehem and now we have good water. Oh yeah, Bethlehem is municipally-owned.
Quit while you're ahead...
VOR"
again with the insults.
your water quality was low. horrors. but you had water. and the commodity pricing didn't run you to the poorhouse. and you lived, and grew up, and suffered no severe brain damage from water pollution? (ok, maybe I'll concede that latter point)
ok, great. The water tasted bad. boo hoo. but the arguments playing out here are doomsday scenarios. that, evidently, was NOT your experience.
Private water in HT, the product of Harold Campbell, was an unmitigated disaster. There were complaints from beginning to end.
New Jersey's a horror story, too. Here's an example of how great privatized water is there. http://www.alternet.org/hot-news-views/outrage-files-private-water-company-squeezes-elderly-nj-woman-every-last-drop
North Carolina is taking aim at water privatization and its excesses. http://www.cwfnc.org/
Then there's Ohio, where none other than Dennis Kucinich has bemoaned higher rates.
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0314-06.htm
Yawn..... This fella thinks there is no problem with food worldwide ????????
Yawn..... Why waste your breath talking to him?
Yawn......VOR laid out the problems with privitatization quite systematically.
But this brilliant fellow doesn't respond...... didn't happen where he lived...... far as he knows no one died .......yawn.
This is the best and brightest the Mayor and Julio have?
Democracy is far from dead in Allentown. A very popularly elected council and administratuon are doing exactly as expected. Pawlowski won over 70% of the vote. While the tiny minority of opposition is noisy, the majority would likely re-elect Pawlowski with a similar spread as last time. Allentown is of one political mind and is getting exactly what it voted for. This is a concocted controversy
What is the debt held by Allentown Water? Will that be paid off immediately with the one time influx of cash or will that be passsed onto the next generation?
If a lease is approved, what hooks would the City have to ensure the system is maintained on an annual basis to appropriate levels?
What is the expections of system condition after the 50 years is up? Could a private operator, let the system deterioate and let the City pick up the tab for rehabilitation when it takes operation ownership again.
Will ratepayers outside the City be hit with higher fees than City residents?
There are problems regarding water in Florida of monumental proportions. Entire ecosystems, the Everglades,industries, sugar and cotton, and huge population centers, South Florida,are at risk.
YAWN........,. WHAT ME WORRY?
to "ok, great. The water tasted bad. boo hoo. but the arguments playing out here are doomsday scenarios. that, evidently, was NOT your experience."
Your lack of empathy is startling. Also, unsettling. Someone thinks you are a plant of the mayor. Maybe, maybe you're not, but you are not someone I'd want arguing for me. You're a bit light on facts and details. The argument being made against this deal is that 1- it gives away a precious resource to a company that most likely will manage in a way that will result in higher costs to the city and 2- that ulyimately, this will not solve the pension dillemma. Your answer is "boo hoo", and "water's not important" and "the world won't end..."
You won't bother, so I'll refer others to these towns, areas where they tried water privatization and the results were very negative. They are, Hingham and Hull, Massachusetts...Huber Heights, Ohio, and Pekin, Illinois.
Of course, you did not live in these areas, I'm guessing.
Our argument shows examples where privatization results in 204% rate increases, inadequate service and harm to natural resources. Your side counters with, "smile and be happy."
VOR
"A very popularly elected council and administratuon are doing exactly as expected. Pawlowski won over 70% of the vote."
Excuse me In short order, three of its seven members will be appointed, not elected. That's not democracy.
As for Pawlowski, what you fail to point out is that he got just 7,908 votes in a City with 63,806 registered voters. That's 12.4%, and is not democracy.
Allentown is no democacy, but an urban growth regime in which politicians and select members of the business community co-opt each other, not for the benefit of the community, but to advance their own business interests. This privatization of the water supply is just another example.
From the Captain ("Cool Hand Luke" 1967):
"What we have is failure to communicate."
Bernie, some of these folks are hearing what they want and believing what they wish to believe and there may be very little we can do to convince them, but I fervently hope that some of the facts make their way to the coherent inhabitants of the once great, once proud city. Otherwise, it's a death by a thousand cuts...
VOR
It took me three seconds to find this:
http://www.afsc.net/PDFFiles/Food&WaterWatchonPrivatization.pdf
I'll give Mr Yawn thus much:
His -- yawn-- distainful, know nothing approach is provocative.
He is also on the money with his criticism of the ad honomem attacks ( although I was tickled pink when he called me a cretin).
He is also correct in pointing out that shrill historonics don't make for the best arguments ( although this issue does raise considerable emotion, people love Allentowns streams and waterways, and people are genuinely frightened about how this will impact their kids and grandchildren).
On the historonics point---- VOR, what a remarkable job you are doing in laying out a clear, concise argument. Quite impressive sir. And thank you.
Mr. Yawn also raises a good point---- neither side does a very good of attempting to hear the others points.
To that end: WITH ALL DO RESPECT FOR THE MAYOR, COUNCIL PRESIDENT, MR RILEY, THE CHAMBER AND OTHER PEOPLE OF GOOD WILL WHO SUPPORT THE 50 YEAR LEASE OPTION--- PLEASE MAKE YOUR CASE---OTHER PEOPLE OF GOOD WILL WANT TO HEAR YOUR CASE -- PEOPLE DESERVE TO HEAR BOTH SIDES -- CLEARLY, CONCISELY, WITH ALL RELAVANT FACTS AND FIGURES.
Citizens deserve no less.
Please gentlemen. Present your case on it's merits.
You may win the day without the bitterness that is now growing and may deviide this community for years to come.
bottom line is about 15% of water in the US is privatized, and roughly 40% of western europe's.
the privatization of allentown's water is not some malthusian catastrophe. the fact that water privatization has gone awry in some municipalities is also merely anecdotal, and not issue dispositive. one can just as easily point to public sector water management failures.
my point has always been that the heightened rhetoric does nothing to further the debate. the appropraite questions are those asked by anon 1224pm:
"What is the debt held by Allentown Water? Will that be paid off immediately with the one time influx of cash or will that be passsed onto the next generation?
If a lease is approved, what hooks would the City have to ensure the system is maintained on an annual basis to appropriate levels?
What is the expections of system condition after the 50 years is up? Could a private operator, let the system deterioate and let the City pick up the tab for rehabilitation when it takes operation ownership again.
Will ratepayers outside the City be hit with higher fees than City residents?"
"Pawlowski"
Dass klingt mir Polnisch.
Wenn unser grosse Fuehrer Pawlowski ist ein deutscher, dann genau wie Erich Hoenecker ist er.
Second last guy fleeing the City Without (Spending) Limits, leave a note for Pawlowski and tell him to turn out the lights when he leaves, too.
(for the Governor's Mansion, or so I am told with 110% certainty)
@2:18
Now we are talking. All reasonable points/ questions.
Regarding the critically important civic process: how is it that these important questions, and other well articulated questions posed.on this site by other contributors, have not been clearly addressed and answered?
It is the responsibility of the duely elected officials of Allentown to insure that all reasonable questions such as these are address and answered. It is the responsibility of our elected city officials to bring all relavent facts, figures, and information to the table, available for all tax payers, citizens and interested parties to see. Would anyone care to respectfully disagree?
Only when such a thoughtful, transparent ,comprehensive and complete process is complete, should such important issues be voted on.
Do you sir, believe an open, democratic, deliberative process is taking place in Allentown? Does anyone believe a reasonable, open, democratic process is playing out?
Even many supporters of the NIZ --- full disclosure, this includes me, we're forced to admit, often with great reluctance, that the process was less than open, and left much to be desired.
Here we go again.
I'm very skeptical about the merits of a 50 year lease from what I've heard so far.
I could possible support this deal, but I'd have to hear a lot more facts and have many more questions answered.
Mr Mayor, Mr Guridy, help people like me out.
Slow down the train here. Answer some questions. Give me, a voter who has supported you in the past, a reason to believe in this option, in the democratic process in Allentown, in your leadership.
Time is running out gentlemen. Lose me now, lose me forever.
Allentown's elections have been perfectly legal. Appointments to vacant council positions are legal. Turnout is a problem everywhere.
You don't like what Allentown voters installed, so you say democracy is dead. I guess it's alive and well where the election results suit you.
At the moment the conversation has turned to an appeal for an open process.
Is it remotely possible that harsh party politics restrain themselves for a brief time?
Could someone point me to several examples of public water failing as so much corporate water has come up short.
Am I off base in believing that locally owened and operated systems are most often more responsive and more approachable.
This raises the question---- is LCA really in the running? Please, someone at LCA, or the acting Lehigh County Ex.
Bernie, Cunningham had everything to do with how the LCA has been run, including their shameful fake shortage and rationing of a few years ago. Don's hand picked guy Muller is up to his eye teeth at the LCA. His fixer Levy was plotting with LCA also and yet the county connection has never been reveiwed on this site.
It's about time.
Don't take this as a vote against a LCA bid. It's not.
But I would like some answers.
Ms Lisel, we know you read this. Your people in the game?
Rolf, please control yourself. Your making a fool of yourself yet again. It is not attractive ol' buddy.
Why do you allow Rolf to post here.. it really degrades your blog.
52 comments and all but 2 are not anonymous(Bernie doesn't count) and yet Bernie responds that he is not assured of anything because the poster is anonymous... time to change your identity settings if you want credibility.
Bernie,
It's good to see people are finally appropriately worked up about this issue and some of the horror stories of what has gone on in other places is coming out.
But, please do not say that this is a "done deal." It's not. If the people rise up and oppose it, the Mayor will have to realize that he does not have as much power as he thinks he has.
I never had a problem with the Mayor before this issue. My concern is that this is going to be a "third rail" for him and anyone on council who stands with him.
Will Julio and Pete step up and share their concerns publicly and show us to be the men we hoped they were?
How is it that Jeanette is the only one with clear thinking and courage.
In the meantime, people just have to keep the heat on the Mayor and council and ask them to take their time analyzing whether this really makes any sense at all. My gut feeling is that it does not. This deal only looks good if your eyes are closed.
Yeah, and it only sounds good if your fingers are in your ears.
Mr Mayor ---- can your administration do its part to engage the community in an open democratic process?
City Council, my friends, can you please restore this cities faith in the political process.
Please
The mayor thought he could blow this thru, just like he did the Trash to Cash deal. The people who could have told him this was sure to be an explosive issue have long been off his Christmas Card list.
Look-- on Tradh to Cash the opposition didn't get suited-up until there was only two minutes left to play and ths score was 32 to nothing.
Dan Poresky's EAC sat on the Trash to Cash information for months and months without due diligence. By the time Poresky woke up the train was pulling out of the station. Quite disgraceful really. The Mayor knew Poresky was a cream puff.
The Stop the Trash to Cash folks finally showed up a day late and a dollar short. It's easy to see why the Mayor thought he could pull it off again,seein as to how J. Eichenwald was the only thing between him and the promised land. There is not any newspaper coverage of any consequence, and he under edtimated the blogosphere and the volitality of this issue. Big mistake,but then hubris is a wild mistress.
The National Park Service just OKed the high-power line thru the Deleware Water Gap National Recreation Area. I guess with an election pending the young president didn't want to look too hard on PPL and PSE&G. Thanks Mr President.
Jennings isn't the only one wllling to sell his soul.
I'm going to start a new group : FUCK THE EARTH . Do you think I can make it fly or is it too obvious?
The mayor thought he could blow this thru, just like he did the Trash to Cash deal. The people who could have told him this was sure to be an explosive issue have long been off his Christmas Card list.
Look-- on Tradh to Cash the opposition didn't get suited-up until there was only two minutes left to play and ths score was 32 to nothing.
Dan Poresky's EAC sat on the Trash to Cash information for months and months without due diligence. By the time Poresky woke up the train was pulling out of the station. Quite disgraceful really. The Mayor knew Poresky was a cream puff.
The Stop the Trash to Cash folks finally showed up a day late and a dollar short. It's easy to see why the Mayor thought he could pull it off again,seein as to how J. Eichenwald was the only thing between him and the promised land. There is not any newspaper coverage of any consequence, and he under edtimated the blogosphere and the volitality of this issue. Big mistake,but then hubris is a wild mistress.
Anonymous said...
"52 comments and all but 2 are not anonymous(Bernie doesn't count) and yet Bernie responds that he is not assured of anything because the poster is anonymous... time to change your identity settings if you want credibility."
One caveat and I will assume that you put all anonymous comments in the same "crackpot" barrel....anonymous comments should always be judged by their content, civility and thoughtfulness. Does an idiotic or vicious, personal comment count as a good one simply because it is signed? Again, when I read any blog, I can easily separate the wheat from the chaff. Some of the more enlightening comments in this thread are from people who for whatever reason, choose to remain anonymous. On the other side of this coin, some of the anonymous comments show no thought at all, just simple-minded statements to demonstrate that they disagree.
6:28
"I never had a problem with the Mayor before this issue,"
WTF ------ you Rip Van Winkle, or what man?
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