All Abe needs now is a nearby college.
This case, which was first heard last month, went on for 4 1/2 hours last night. And they're still not done. Another hearing is set for November 20, where resident after resident will get up and swear under oath that Abe Atiyeh is a dirtball. For another 4 1/2 hours.
Every now and then, I would sneak out of the zoning hearing and drop in on the UFO crowd. It was quite enlightening. I learned that not only have we been visited by aliens in the past, but they are among us right now. After 4 1/2 hours of a zoning hearing, I could see antennas popping out all over the place
I also noticed a giant pod next to City Council Solicitor Chris Spadoni, who was trying his best to stay awake.
Mark Malkames, representing Abe Atiyeh, offered to finish up early so we could all go home to watch the Presidential debate. But this is Bethlehem, and everybody there is already voting for Obama. So they all said No. They were anxiously waiting for their chance to call Abe Atiyeh a dirtbag.
Some pompous psychotherapist who claims he's gone to school for a zillion years, but has no Ph.D., testified that 50-75% of alcoholics and drug addict are whack jobs who get violent, psychotic and schizophrenic. Some of those bastards might even see UFOs. When an incredulous Malkames asked this guy whether he was frickin' serious, he called the Atiyeh advocate incompetent.
I think this psychotherapist might need some help.
Either that or he's an alien.
When the hearing was over, I hopped in my bike to cycle back to Nazareth. It was dark, but I have lights all over my bike. Some are steady. Others flash. At a light, one motorist rolled down his window to tell me that, from a distance, I looked like a UFO.
Anyway, I missed the debate I wanted to see and got home too late to recap the meeting. I'll do that tomorrow.
I've read a few news accounts of the debate, and really regret having missed some fiery exchanges. I'll try to find the debate online after getting some sleep and watch it. But I am interested in knowing what you thought.
Who won?
Did Obama make a comeback, as I've read. Was Romney still strong, as I've read. Was moderator Candy Crowley pro-Obama, as I've read? Was she a great moderator? I read that, too.
When giving your debate analysis, please indicate whether you are an Obama or Romney supporter, or whether you are undecided like me.
I'm getting some sleep, just as soon as I get rid of that damn pod.
56 comments:
Independent. Obama was better than before, not saying much. Romney was rude and abraisve, he had that look of scorn and disdain, we have all seen our on bosses faces.
Romney fan here. Both did well. I call it a tie. Moderator leaned toward Obama.
Indie Jane here. Moderator was good. She was fair. Romney did try to steam roller her a few times, turnoff to women.
Good debate and close. Edge to Romney. He at least has a plan and offers real change. Obama still can not articulate what he has done over the past four years to make things better. He stumbled over the gasoline question hard. $1.85 a gallon when he started, now at $4.00 a gallon. Blamed it on the recession? Evidently as the economy gets better gas prices are expected to rise. Really?
At first glance, I thought the host was that Honey Boo Boo character. The questions were beyond ridiculous and an insult to both candidates.
This race isn't close and hasn't been for a couple of months.
Romney should have explained that, statistically, the economy HAS BEEN in recovery since March 2009, just two months after Barack took office.
Apparently, this is as good as the Obama economy gets.
Independent: Obama WON this debate, all I heard from Romney was "I got this 5 point plan, I've got this 5 point plan" and Gosh Golly I am a minister and a christen, Obama Slammed Romeny with facts, not that the other side would listen to such crazy things as FACTS, and also spanked him for again politicizing the death of people in that Embassy , The Host was FAIR and direct and yes she did correct Romney once, but again he was LYING and making things up, so if you get the chance watch it.
Now leaning heavily towards Obama/Biden
Crowley was very biased. She blunted a major Romney point on Libya with misinformation, the admitted she had it wrong after the debate. A perfect example of why moderator involvement should be kept to a minimum.
Thought Romney won handily, especially when you factor in that he had to debate Obama AND Crowley.
I have to believe that you're being less than truthful about your occupation, since your love and tolerance for the "other side" is quite evident.
If you're really a minister, please look up the spelling of "Christian". And use a capital 'C'. The word does come from Christ, after all.
Amazing how people watch the same debate and see different results. Prior to the first debate, I was leaning towards the devil we know, but Obama came off so lame and lackadasical there I drifted back towards the devil we don't.
Last night Romney came off a little whiney, Obama seemed much more engaged this time. Annoyed that neither one of them would just tackle the questions with straight forward answers and just immediately launched into talking points.
Is $4.00 gas the new normal? First off, neither one of them has probably had to fill a gas tank in the last 10 years so they probably don't quite understand the question. To answer 6:37 - yes the recession did impact price of gas, simple laws of supply and demand, nobody was working, nobody was buying anything and nobody was driving, there was plenty of gas.
Scott
Romney for me.
Voter for O here. I again feel cursed because I have a memory that goes past a year and can actually see some things as undeniable, unlike the fellow who wrote: "He stumbled over the gasoline question hard. $1.85 a gallon when he started, now at $4.00 a gallon. Blamed it on the recession? Evidently as the economy gets better gas prices are expected to rise. Really?" ... REALLY? REALLY? If you haven't figured out that you can calculate how the economy is going by looking at the gas prices, you must be from Mars. In our area, right before the crash (under Bush), the price for gas was about $4.60/gal. and within a month dropped down to about $2/gal. If I want to know how the national economy is doing I have only to glance at the gas prices. Those pricks from the oil companies know EXACTLY how much they can squeeze the public to the penny before people would be pissed off enough to go after them with torches and pitchforks. There was no stumbling by O who pointed out the reality you seem to be missing, the stumbling you heard was just your ears going into a distortion filter mode because facts might leak in.
I didn't watch the debate because i feel my mind is made up. What i know is I'm not better off than i was 4 years ago and i don't think Obama has come thru on any of his promises. All he did was spend and spend and put us deeper in debt. I also don't feel he has any business sense or is going to make this country any better gien 4 more years. Time for a change and put someone in that has a business background. If he does't make things better --guess what-he'll be gone in 4 years as well.
Obama liberal scum here, Bernie. Romney was his 1%/Super-Salesman true self, interrupting and generally disrespecting the President, serially-proclaiming his “5-Point Plan” to Bring Back The Bush Years. Obama showed up this time, energized, combative and countering most Romney lies. The Prez missed a couple hanging curve-balls: Romney’s I-Love-Pell-Grants for students is belied by his embrace of the Ryan budget which kills them all off; his claim that he wants women to get insured contraceptives belied by his public support of a bill this year in Congress to do just the opposite. Alas for The Guy Who Likes Trees All The Same Height, the clips that will rebound around the Web will be his reference to “binders of women” (a bogus claim that he sought them for posts while governor of “my state” (MA, not his other homes of MI, NH, UT and CA); and his claim (immediately rejected by the moderator) that Obama didn’t refer to the Benghazi attack as “terrorism” in his day-after speech. Don’t know if any of this will help “undecideds” decide but, I’m afraid Bernie, that I agree with Bill Maher: if you don’t know who to like after two years of this stuff, please stay home on Nov. 6 :-) Hey, what do I know: I’m just a Commie-pinko tree-hugging Democrat :-)
I'm supporting Romney.
I thought the debate was great when Crowley stayed out of it. It was nothing more than a good show though.
1. Obama can't change his poor record,
2. Romney can't make the press hold BHO accountable,
3. and even the fact checkers got a few of their 'facts' wrong.
I thought neither of them answered the questions as asked, but most of the questions that were asked just sucked anyway. I don't think this debate will change anyone's mind. At this point all we can hope for in the next debate is another good cage match. I think BHO is done no matter how good of a show he puts on from here on out.
Leaning Obama.
Romney tried stream-rolling the moderator, and she took none of it. Then he whined like a litle girl about procedure, even though he was clearly wrong. Again, Crowley took none of it and placed a tighter leash on Romney... which I didn't think was 100% fair, she could have cracked down on both at times.
The Town-all forum was VERY entertaining... it had all of the looks of the seconds before an MMA cage match.
The sad part was neither candidate ever directly answered any question. I guess that's a pre-req. for being a presidential candidate.
There is a very simple solution to solving gas prices. It's called position limits and forcing bidders of "paper" oil to take physical delivery of the product they're speculating on. Neither candidate has the balls to face Golden Sachs or other trading firms who like to play with cheap capital gains income.
Don Miles:
After the debate Crowley admitted that she had HER facts wrong and Romney had it right. Of course, that admission was only for the three people who watched the CNN aftershow.
________________________________
Besides the moderator, I also found bias in some of the questions themselves. The worst was from the woman who was concerned that Mitt Romney would turn out to be like George Bush.
Not only did Romney have to answer the question, but Mr. Obama got to point out how he thought Romney WOULD be just like President Bush.
If the debate were fair and Romney was forced to answer the Bush question, Obama should have had to answer a question about how he is different from Karl Marx.
Let's play some White House garden tapes ...
... and let's talk about videos and spontaneous demonstrations all day long!
PLAY THE TAPES
"Mr. President, have you looked at your pension?"
Obama in 2012 ...
... because many Americans still don't have a free cell phone.
And Mitt Romney just does not care.
Yo, Anonymous (brave, name-hiding souls that you are):
The rules were unfair!
The moderator was unfair!
The questions were unfair!
The trees weren't the right height!
He took my lunch money!
WAAAAAAAAAAH!
:-)
It is "Goldman Sachs"
It is also really sad when the Progressive Liberal Democrat Class Warriors fired up by 0-bama do not even know the proper names of their enemies, real or imagined, are.
Sun Tzu would be so disappointed.
ROLF OELER
The debate was weird and unfortunate and at best it was a draw.
Romney and Obama were both unflattering personalities.
Crowley will never moderate a debate again.
I give credit to the audience. They had really good, direct questions.
Every post here but mine was "Anonymous", IronPigPen, until you showed up. Whose name is "Anonymous"?
And I have no enemies :-)
Rolf oeler, I am asking people to indicate who they support and who they thought won this debate. Please do not attack other readers for simply expressing themselves. Please do not start with the repetitive comments.
You are a piece of work, Herr O'Hare ...
... check out Anderson Cooper on CNN last night.
Gas price argument is so misleading. Back up two or three months an you will see gas pricrs were even higher near the end of 2008. The only reason gas prices "tanked" was the cliff of this deep recession. Gas prices mirror the rise an fall of the stock market.
Drilling or pipelines do not provide energy independence unless there is a commitment of the supply to US interest. Drilling for the purpose of exportation to the highest bidder is not sound policy.
Obama was more credible in his energy policy.
Obama supporter
Can one of you R's please post a link to a video of Crowley admitting she had the facts wrong? Thanks!
Tim
Most people seem to interpret the question of who won or lost as encouragement to evaluate style rather than substance.
We would be better off if the pundits, including those on this blog, focused more on the factual content of what was said, rather than the tactics and demeanor with which it was delivered.
The NY Times has an interactive fact check of the debate here:
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/10/17/us/politics/20121017-second-presidential-debate-obama-romney.html?hp#/?annotation=e1ea0194d
I've been on the fence during this whole campaign. Do I go with the incumbent whom I voted for the last election, or vote for Romney who seems to flip on everything he says. One week saying one thing another week changing his tune.
His flip-flopping is what I think took the President by surprise the last debate. On this debate I thought the President showed me the person I thought I had voted for 4 years ago. Yes I know he hasn't delivered on some of his promises. But I also realize that he's had a lot to over come from with what the Bush administration left him. Now regarding BiPartisanship you can throw that out the window since the Republicans refuse to work with the President, just so he looks bad going into the election. Now that's pretty sorry politicking.
I still haven't made up my mind. But I am starting to lean a certain way. I'll wait probably until the final day of the election to make my decision. But I think the President, by far, shined like a man of action and a fine example of what a President should be and how they should act.
I just hope and pray that people open their eyes and ears instead of believing the BS that is tossed there way.
For me personally I think we as a country need to throw the 2 party system out the window. We as the people should vote for a pool of money to be used in elections and whether there are 10 candidates or 100, the money gets split equally. They can all go out and campaign and do there thing and then we vote. We should also revert back to the popular vote and get rid of the electoral vote. Just one American's opinion on how to start to fix our government!
Obama supporter Tim,
I've only been able to watch the first 15 minutes of the debate on the Internet and will get to the rest tonight. But here is a link to where Candy Crowley admits that Romney was "right in the main," but used the wrong word.
http://freebeacon.com/candy-crowley-he-was-right/
This is a right-leaning source.
Anon752 Romney was indeed wrong regarding Obama's Rose Garden Address. This is just another example of how the facts are an inconvenient truth to the Romney camp.
I think Obama's rebutal was very commanding and Presidential. The Ambassador was a close friend.
Imagine if 911 was politicized the day after.
This is old hat. The bigger news at that those bums, the NY Yankees, are going to lose!!! Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
Bernie,
Thanks for the link. Unfortunately, Candy does not say that she had the facts wrong and Romney had them right as Anon 10:10 suggested. She re-iterated that back and forth which substantiated that Obama called the assault on our embassy an act of terror.
Meanwhile, the right wing blogosphere has headline after headline claiming that Crowley admitted she was wrong.
The shameless lying of these R's boggles the mind.
Tim
Mitt Romney got absolutely tea-totaled on Benghazi. It was cringe-worthy that he stood there not knowing about the transcript the media was talking about all week.
Romney was skewered on the assault weapon ban, which he signed into law, when he was not able to lay one gun restriction at Obama's feet.
Obama got the upper hand to put it mildly on the equal pay for women question. Mitt Romney seemed to be speaking from 1958.
Romney got KO'd with the 47% in which he teed up perfectly for Obama to drive it home with no chance at rebuttal.
Obama was the clear and obvious winner.
IronPig-- Blame the referee, just like your candidate did.
Tim
Leaning Romney voter: I thought it was close, maybe a slight edge to Romeny, considering he was debating two people, but no clear winner to me. I think it was close enough that it will keep Romney's momentum going.
So when conservatives say Romney was debating two people, they are referring to the moderator corroborating the transcript of Obama's remarks which Romney was attempting to bury?
You know what they say when people blame the moderator?
I say that saying something LOUD or FREQUENTLY, as libs are wont to do, does not make it TRUE
Two years ago, I was seriously looking at Romney as an alternative. He had the reputation as a businessman who had been a moderate/centrist Governor of a Blue state... Then he drank the tea in the primaries and became a candidate I could no longer recognize or trust. Funny, I remember the "flip-flopper" t-shirts the GOP sold in 2004. Kind of like deficits, "do as I say, not as I do".
I suspect that whoever wins will be the beneficiary of a slowly rebounding economy that will happen regardless of who's in there, and their respective party will claim it was their policies that did it, and benefit in 2016.
I find it hard to fully blame Obama when working with a largely do-nothing Congress who's House majority/Senate filibuster minority's stated number one priority was political (defeat Obama) rather than governance. He was too gentlemanly, however, in dealing with them which shows a certain lack of leadership skills (which are different than vision skills).
That said, you can guess who I am left to vote for, and for the first time in my life, none of them will have an R after their name.
That looks like Rep. Simmons.
The clear winner was Romney. I watched the debate on Fox and the foillowup discussion. It was unanimous.
End of Discussion.
Bill
I watched on MSNBC. Their undecided group came away leaning Romney. I trust MSNBC. Fox is crazytown.
Obama is a communist. Romney has my vote.
Romney is a flesh eating zombie, I'm voting for Obama.
One dictator feel during Reagan's two terms. How many fell during Obama's first term? There is no doubt Romney will try to suggest there have been no accomplishments during the next debate.
I suspect he will suggest the US should have been more involved in Syria on day one....or maybe he will say the US should not be the world's police......I don't know......it is such a sketchy platform who knows what Romenys position will be come Monday.
Didn't have a Welfare State, Everybody pulled his weight, Gee our old LaSalle ran great...those were the Days......
Really, sketchy?
What's Obama's plan for the next four years? More deficit spending, more debt for our kids & grand kids and just keep on hoping?
That's not a plan for anything more than national collapse.
So 8 more years in 2016 for the Democratic Party? The Repubs heads will REALLY explode when Hillary Clinton follows Obama into the Whitehouse.
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