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| Jack Nagle |
This humor was on display at their May 9 meeting. Supervisor Mark Tanczos, who usually covers developments as an agenda item, announced, "We have no development in Hanover Township."
That resulted in some laughter.
It also resulted in this wisecrack from Supervisor Jack Nagle.
"Look at the bright side," he said, "We don't have a hole in the ground."
Nagle was referring to Pawlowski's hole. His comment brought more laughter, mostly at him, as Manager Jay Finnigan buried his head in his hands.
As a person who was actually there, and who attends their meetings regularly, the Supervisors were laughing mostly at themselves and Nagle, as they always do. Nagle is often on the receiving end.
Andrew McGill is a Morning Call reporter. Hanover Township is not his beat. I did not see him at that meeting, and have learned he was not there. But nearly two weeks later, when it was no longer topical, McGill posted a blog about it at Valley 610, including a 19-second audio clip from the meeting. He fails to credit this blog, which is the only place where anyone could have learned about what actually happened.
Almost immediately after publishing that little audio excerpt, numerous comments began to appear on this Morning Call blog, which is not exactly known for interactivity. In a matter of 24 hours, there were 26 comments, trashing the Hanover Township Board of Supervisors. They even included a link to my picture of Finnigan.
Very obviously, this was a set up. Instead of actually reporting the news or something that he witnessed, McGill (or the editor who assigned him this task) appears to be playing to the unions. They jump right in with comments about the gazillions jobs.
McGill, knowingly or unknowingly,distorts some humor to make Hanover Township Supervisors look like callous bastards who are laughing at Allentown. A Pro-NIZ blogger, who also failed to appear at this meeting, brays "Hanover Township Assholes Have a Good Laugh About Screwing Allentown." Another absentee and anonymous blogger snarls, "Hanover Township and Bernie Laugh About Causing Trouble for Allentown."
I get attacked, too, naturally. One commenter states I'm lucky that "all of these union construction guys aren't the thugs he calls them or he'd most likely get his pathetically smug smile smacked right off his face."
That was probably posted by a thug.
I can understand Bill White or Paul Carpenter taking pro-NIZ positions. They're columnists, and even I would rather read their pro-NIZ views than yet another story about riding a motorcycle sans helmet.
Also, I am a bottom-feeding blogger and freely admit my bias. But what happens when the supposedly objective gatekeepers distort what happened at a meeting to promote a political agenda?
Fortunately, they no longer are the gatekeepers, although they still like to look down their noses at us.
That's why they usually get zero comments.
Updated 11:30 AM: A Morning Call reporter whom I know and trust acknowledges that Andrew McGill failed to attend the meeting. Freelancer Tony Nauroth, however, was there, and I saw him myself. Nauroth wrote no story, but told McGill about the incident, and he was merely following up on that information. I still have lots of questions, but will drop it.
It was also readily available on two other blogs. You guys have made a game out of this.
ReplyDeleteYou got caught. Too bad for the citizens of Hanover twp. THat their elected officials and Finnegan have adopted you, they should look what you did to Northampton County.
Desperate times, desperate measures. A lot of folks have a lot if investment in this pipe dream. Just follow the money trail. Increasingly the MC lacks credibility. They will not bite the hand that feeds them, morals and ethics be damned. We have emerged from the best of times and inevitably the worst of times shall follow.
ReplyDeleteto be honest, when i read it on YOUR blog, with all your spin, I kinda thought it was a dick remark by nagle.
ReplyDeleteThe report came from a recording that is public record. You often times pull public records and the report the facts as news. Nagle said what he said at a public meeting. It sounded cold and rude bc it was cold and rude. The comment made nagle sound like he was a jerk bc that kind of joke is the kind of joke jerks tell to make people laugh.
ReplyDeleteIn 2012, a reporter does not have to be present to tell readers what happened. In a sense, it is a great service bc it makes the news more accessible. The same technology that makes it possible for you to create a record of public decision making was used here.
Bottom, line... This wasn't a 3rd rate transcript. It was a live audio recording. Hanover's manager and lawyers probably pulles the clown behind closed doors after the meeting or made a call to him the next day bv they know that such a quote will make a counter suit by allentown plausible. The quote demonstrates malice and opens the door to claims that hanover twp is trying to interfer in lawful countracts out of malice. Yeah, "it was a joke" and "boys will be boys.". But jokes can be told out of malice. In this case, nagle just gave
Bernie
ReplyDeleteSaid it once. Say it again. The Call makes money off this project. Why its video cams alone bring Internet ad clicks, no? All articles this paper produces should include a disclaimer that the paper and its
real estate are in the NIZ zone and
will benefit. Shame on the paper.
6:37 Are you a thug or what? I suppose we should just forget about free speech in the Lehigh Valley. Bring the white hoods out of storage. What a twisted comment.
ReplyDelete7:10... I have no interest in the matter other than as a spectator. I find irony in the use of the same kind of technology and resources that Bernie uses being mocked when used by others.
ReplyDeleteAnd this is not an issue of free speech. Mr. Nagle was free to say as he wants. But free speech does not exempt him from being held accountable in his role as an elected official. If this was somebody from the public making a comment like this, so be it. But Hanover Township, through comments made by duly elected officials, can be held accountable if the courts find reason. There is a reason, as Bernie said, the township manager covered his face. It wasn't just bad form: it was a bad demonstration of judgement.
But then again, I'm not surprised that somebody might wish for Mr. Nagle to avoid accountability on this matter. We all know how government hates to be held accountable.
ReplyDeleteWell, the truth is, newspapers have ALWAYS had a bias. This is nothing new. The hit piece on Hanover township is the result of bad manners on the supervisors' part, plain and simple. Allentown and its supporting union thugs are looking for any opportunity to bash the growing dissent in the region.
ReplyDeleteOn the whole, I would say the joke was funny. It's topical, and it's true. But, it's bad manners. That's probably why it's so funny. Allentown's hole in the ground is the result of bad "planning" and terrible politics and greed in Allentown. It is not any of the township's fault that corruption in Allentown is ripe for exposure.
I support the suburban municipalities in their fight to best represent their residents against the NIZ cash grab. However, as a City resident it pisses me off a little that they are making jokes about Allentown during their public meetings. Maybe there is more to their motives than just taking of a small portion of their EIT. Maybe Hanover Township's supervisors are spending their tax payers money pursuing an anti-Allentown agenda.
ReplyDeleteThe comment was unprofessional.
ReplyDeleteYou can hear you laughing. You think it's funny that the suburbs are going to screw Allentown with a huge hole. You're all just doing this for sport.
ReplyDeleteDoesn't sound like bias to me. Sounds like someone ran with the story of the Hanover tools. And just because one is pro-arena doesn't mean one is in bed with millionaires. Perhaps, like me, they just look forward to something to do in Allentown and hope it works?
ReplyDeleteMaybe there is more to their motives than just taking of a small portion of their EIT.
ReplyDeleteYa think?
If it's not in the obituary section of the MC, I didn't read it!
ReplyDeleteMaybe the reason there were so many comments on the MCall blog is because you misjudge how much support there actually is for the NIZ in the valley and that people actually really care about the revitalization of Allentown. The political class in the townships might be angry because they see a couple of beans falling off their counting boards, but real people remember Allentown as a place they loved in their childhood and want it back. Its a powerful emotion--powerful enough to compel people to post on a blog to counter the hate they felt when they heard clowns bashing the city.
ReplyDeletethanks
ReplyDeleteI get a laugh at how the NIZ is being shaped into a moral and feelings issue instead of what it is...a business decision that was really a bad decision in hindsight.
ReplyDeleteNow we all should "care" about Allentown and not hurt the feelings of those trying to "make Allentown better" to deflect from the fact that the entire NIZ concept was a clandestine operation with intent to screw other municipalities, including their very own neighbors.
If a Township tried the same thing, the City's attorneys couldn't file the lawsuit fast enough.
Also, how int he world could the Morning Call piece not be objective, it was a sound recording. It was what it was. I understand it was taken from the context of the meeting, but, I don't care what else was going on at the meeting. Those cocky laughs were going to sound awful no matter what.
ReplyDelete@ 9:18. The townships did try the same thing, it was called the 1965 tax enabling act and was the NIZ on a huge scale. It's a shame that Allentown didn't sue them back then. Because once the townships were given a inch, they took a mile and strangled the cities with the cord.
ReplyDeleteAnd like any political decision, of course the NIZ is a "moral" and "emotional" issue.
"It was also readily available on two other blogs. You guys have made a game out of this."
ReplyDeleteNo. this is the ONLY place the story appeared for a good two weeks. Then a MC reporter who never attended the meeting did a hot piece, and two other bloggers followed suit. They never attended the meeting either.
"to be honest, when i read it on YOUR blog, with all your spin, I kinda thought it was a dick remark by nagle."
ReplyDeleteThat's fine. But what you refer to as "spin" happens to be what actually happened. What McGill put out is a distortion.
"You often times pull public records and the report the facts as news."
ReplyDeleteIf I write about a meeting I did not attend, i make sure the reader knows it. I also link to the sources where i got my facts. it's called honesty. McGill does not do that, nor does he point out that the Supervisors are NOT laughing at each other, but mostly are laughing at Nagle for putting his foot in his mouth. But he would not know that bc he was not there. Nor were the bloggers who piled on.
"In 2012, a reporter does not have to be present to tell readers what happened. In a sense, it is a great service bc it makes the news more accessible."
ReplyDeleteWhat kind of horse shit is this?
So what if they laughed at a very good joke?
ReplyDeleteYou know why it was a very good joke? Because, in the end, like all very good jokes, the premise is true: At least we didn't do to you, for the gain of a few, what the ruling class in Allentown did to the people there.
They aren't laughing at the people of Allentown (though laughing at mind-numbed leverpullers who beg to be ruled by a king is entirely appropriate here).
They are laughing at the doofus Ed, his stringpuller developers and the whores from both parties who were too smart by half.
They are laughing because it is, indeed, hillarious to watch the bad guys in this farce squirm now that they've been exposed.
They are laughing not because a hole exists, but because of the miscalculation by the URG, which has lied and deceived at every turn, and was brazen enough to believe no one would stand up to them.
Har Har HAAARRR de HAAARRR HAAARRR!
-Clem
"The quote demonstrates malice"
ReplyDeleteGood luck with that.
"I find irony in the use of the same kind of technology and resources that Bernie uses being mocked when used by others."
ReplyDeleteI am by no means mocking the use of technology. I am calling onto question this newspaper's honesty and supposed objectivity.
1. It publishes a story about a Hanover meeting nearly two weeks after it occurred, when it is no longer topical or news.
2. It dishonestly misleads the reader into thinking the reporter was there, when he was not.
3. It dishonestly fails to link to the only place where it could have obtained this story - here. Believe it or not, my account could have provided some balance.
4. It distorts the audio in that the listener has no way of knowing that they are mostly laughing at each other and Nagle, not Allentown. Had the reporter been there, he would have known that.
5. It is obvious to me that the paper is carrying water for the construction unions, who leaped on a blog that never gets any comments with all kinds of remarks. My guess is that Fleck, who is paid by the unions and Pawlowski, put them up to this.
I have no problem with the paper being in the tank, but be honest about it and admit you're a whore.
NIZ, NIZ, no, no, no!
ReplyDeletePawn shops, pawn shops, yes, yes, yes!
Why in the world did you post another article on this Bernie? It just brings more attention. It would have been better just to let this one fade away. Public opinion's not with you on it.
ReplyDelete"You can hear you laughing. You think it's funny that the suburbs are going to screw Allentown with a huge hole. You're all just doing this for sport."
ReplyDeleteJonathan, you'
e an idiot who was not there and have no idea that they are laughing at Nagle ad each other, not Allentown.
If you want to say Nagle put his foot in his mouth, that's fine. Wanna'say his comment was inappropriate? Fine. But to go on and claim that Supervisors were laughing at Allentown's expense is simply untrue.
But you would not know about that bc you were no there. You and McGill both bray about a meeting you never attend. Neither of you link to the one source that was actually there. This is dishonest.
". Sounds like someone ran with the story of the Hanover tools."
ReplyDeleteTwo weeks after the meeting?
Bernie -
ReplyDeleteWhat I found most interesting in the Morning Call lately was Alan Jennings' comment that people are "kicking Allentown when it's DOWN".
That's as close as the paper has come to printing reality in the last six years.
Allentown IS down, thanks to Ed Pawlowski and his rubber stamp minions on city council. Prior to this admission, Pawlowski only received glowing coverage for his propaganda about Allentown's revitalization and improvement under his watch.
It would be nice for the Morning Call to write a story about why such an expensive and unprecedented attempt by state government to intervene in the affairs of a city is the ONLY way to save Allentown.
To me, the whole scheme smacks of desperation - at all levels - and an admission that Pawlowski and others in City Government have failed us.
"And just because one is pro-arena doesn't mean one is in bed with millionaires. Perhaps, like me, they just look forward to something to do in Allentown and hope it works?"
ReplyDeleteIt's pro-NIZ, not pro-arena. Being pro-NIZ does pretty much mean you're in bed with millionaire-want-to-be-billionaires. That's the construction unions. They are salivating over jobs that are very temporary.
So, DANCES ON THE GRAVES OF DEAD GUYS says :
ReplyDelete"Everybody is just doing this for sport".
Really?
And he also stated previously that Anthony Weiner needed to "stick it out."
JUST SAY NO TO THE NIZ
Bernie says:
ReplyDelete"If you want to say Nagle put his foot in his mouth, that's fine. Wanna' say his comment was inappropriate? Fine. But to go on and claim that Supervisors were laughing at Allentown's expense is simply untrue."
Bullsh*t. LISTEN to the the intonation of their voices and the laughs. It is CLEAR AS DAY. In this case you can't spin it because commonsense tells anyone these guys were knocking Allentown. It is the most obvious thing in the world--i mean they are taking so much glee in it it's creepy. Geeting is right, this is just blood sport. Just LISTEN and make up your own mind:
http://snd.sc/Jl1f73
"Maybe the reason there were so many comments on the MCall blog is because you misjudge how much support there actually is for the NIZ in the valley and that people actually really care about the revitalization of Allentown."
ReplyDeleteA blog that never gets any comments suddenly had 26 comments bc this was a union set up. They were waiting and were likely told when the story would publish or were emailed when it did so they could comment.
This is dishonest journalism.
"It is CLEAR AS DAY. In this case you can't spin it because commonsense tells anyone these guys were knocking Allentown. It is the most obvious thing in the world--i mean they are taking so much glee in it it's creepy. Geeting is right, this is just blood spo'
ReplyDeletePeople who were not there and who listen to 19 seconds of audio are in no position to judge what is or is not clear.
No GUILT-TRIP CAMPAGIN is gonna force ME to buy expensive ice hockey tickets to Chairman Pawlowski's $ 220.0 million dollar Palace of Sport.
ReplyDeleteI don't care how much the Dummyrats and their Crony Capitalist buddies say the suburbs "owe" the City With No Spending Limits.
I don't care how many Propaganda pieces appear on the front page at Pravda, er, ah, The Morning Call, either.
And, I don't care if I never get a date with an NIZ Cheerleader, either.
The Brooks Brothers want a hockey rink? Great! And they can pay for it with THEIR OWN MONEY ...
Gotta love the lady writing a letter to the Editor of The Morning Call crying about not only the $ 900.0 million dollars cut from the state's education budget, but additional cuts of a further $ 90.0 million dollars, or so she says.
ReplyDeleteDoes she know about the $ 220.0 million dollar Palace of Sport?
JUST CURIOUS
@ 10:18. Do you know that that the 200 million is paid for over a 30-year period and that the hope is that tons of new office space and commerce in the downtown will generate tax revenue for the city offsetting the debt and so, perhaps, just perhaps, the Allentown School District doesn't fall into bankruptcy while school districts across some imaginary line (parkland) can spend 3x as much per student in gaudy facilities?
ReplyDelete10:32, The cost of $220 MM, in addition to improvements, in addition to maintenance costs over the life o the 30 year bond, will be at least $500 mm. In the meantime, the NIZ has a 30 year life span and there will be additional bonds. We are probably talking close to $2 billion or even ore when they get started on the riverfront.
ReplyDeleteIt is simply too much of a risk, even for $500 MM.
Bernie @ 10:37, you want to provide some links for those numbers you are putting out there?
ReplyDeletePublius, Here we go again. I wrote a post about the $220 Million bond and its cost. It is at least $500 million. This is just for the arena and three office buildings downtown.
ReplyDeleteNow there's another phase for Reilly with 4 big retail and residential buildings on Linden and 7th. That's at least another $100 Million bond.
Then there is all the other development possibilities in the downtown in 40 acres.
Then there are 9 acres along the riverfront. The post of moving PPL, if that happens, will be $40 million.
There are numerous decaying building in a 26-acre industrial wasteland.
So my $2 billion figure is actually a low ball estimation.
I mean links to numbers from outside this spin zone, perhaps objective sources like banks or government agencies--not from some article you wrote yourself where you made up the numbers out of the blue as well.
ReplyDeletePublius, How can there be links when Allentown has refused to release the numbers? We know it is borrowing $220 million for the arena. We know that, over 30 years, that will cost at least $500 million. We also know that is just for starters.
ReplyDeleteIf you say so. . . .
ReplyDeleteAccept the MC's free 13-week delivery offer with no intention of paying for the paper. When they call after 13 weeks, decline signing up. They'll be back in two to three weeks with another 13-weeks free. Since they inattentively conduct customer service from Bangalore, take advantage of their idiocy and don't pay for their rag. Given their lack of local reporting in lieu of reprinting wire stories, their eventual demise will go unnoticed.
ReplyDeleteUh ... it looks like at least 50 percent of the comments on your blogs are from you yourself.
ReplyDeleteGet a life dude
It was a simple mistake in my opinion. Mr. Nagle is human and the voting public can accept that. He should just offer a brief apology and move on to the important business of local government. No need to make a big deal out of anything.
ReplyDeleteAnon 10:32,
ReplyDeleteDid you know that Big Government just has NO BUSINESS financing a risky ice hockey rink?
Show me exactly where in The Constitution is says that is what Big Government is supposed to be doing ...
Buy as many tickets to the Palace of Sport as you like, I will just go ahead and say no to the NIZ.
RIGHT BACK AT YOU, BUDDY
Anon 11:18,
ReplyDeleteStop trying to impress the NIZ Cheerleaders --- they just plain are not interested in dating you.
GOOD AUTHORITY
"Get a life dude"
ReplyDeleteLike YOU have one, Anon 11:18?
SKATE WITH FOUR LINES FOR SIXTY MINUTES
"You can hear you laughing."
ReplyDeleteJonathan. I went back and listened. there is no way to tell whether I was laughing or not. What you can tell is that I wrote what Nagle said.
But to be honest. I did laugh, not at Allentown, but at the humor that started with HT having no development.
"A blog that never gets any comments suddenly had 26 comments bc this was a union set up. They were waiting and were likely told when the story would publish or were emailed when it did so they could comment.
ReplyDeleteThis is dishonest journalism.
10:09 AM"
Bingo. And commonplace within newspaper industry. Gannett (USA Today, and the largest of the chains) used to have a site called "Mom's Like Me". Insiders blew the whistle on staffers posing as member "Moms" and posting. First to drive traffic, and then to keep it alive. It eventually was shut down.
Most newspaper blogs require registration, otherwise they can't get anything from advertisers. That is a significant contributor to the low comment counts on many of their offerings. The other, of course, is that newspapers aren't really very good at the digital game outside the regurgitation of the print product (which is not saying much, considering the state of that print product). On the outside, things may look good. Behind the scenes, chaos and ineptitude rule the day.
This fact is still clear. The NIZ legislation is illegal. Now let the courts decide. How about all the mayor's gaffs. Will Andrew publish them?
ReplyDeleteIt is hilarious that guys like Geeting and Branch think that the 1965 legislation relative to tax collection (Act 511) was some big tax grab conspiracy by the Townships.
ReplyDeleteThe historical fact about the legislation that it was created to deal with a problem in how the City of Philadelphia collected tax at the time. It had zero to do with townships or suburban tax grabbing.
You should research my history.
Sincerely yours,
The Sterling Act
Publius -
ReplyDeletePlease, why don't you give us the numbers? If you're disputing Bernie's figures, then correct him.
As Bernie mentions, Allentown City Hall has refused to provide these numbers to anyone for the past year+. That's a big part of the problem.
The reality is that this project could not withstand the scrutiny that would come from releasing the numbers. If it could, we'd have them already and City Hall would welcome the debate. Instead, they'll hold them back until the last minute and expect everyone to accept whatever they finally throw out.
That might work in Allentown, where City Council is willing to blindly follow wherever it is led, but it doesn't fly in the better run areas of the Valley.
Show us your (doctored?) figures, NIZ Cheerleaders.
ReplyDeleteYour constant attack, demonize and smear tactics have failed miserably.
Plus, YOU are the clowns trying to hawk this $ 220.0 million dollar Palace of Sport to ME.
So, hop to it. Don't you want to sell any ice hockey tickets today, or what? Remember, the Chairman and his Crony Capitalists are counting on you!
DOUBTING THOMAS
7:33 - Are you kidding? Fall on your head? Nagle accountable for what, a joke? Hyperbole? A duly elected public official?
ReplyDelete"Yes your honor we are suing this man for making an off color joke in a public meeting about hissoner". People might have thought badly of him because of that joke. He must pay, millions."
What a friggin waste of public resources that would be. Now isn't that a hoot. Me thinks if is more because your friends and blessed leader are being pointed out for what they are?
Technology has nothing to do with it, an inability to be forthright about the issues does. Have fun with those characters.
The numbers for this project have been consistent all along. It's $140m, or $160m, or $180m, or $220m plus the additional waterfront money plus other stuff plus you ask too many questions.
ReplyDeleteThis is O'Hare now telling you not to believe your own ears, believe him. Now he and his new best friends the wizards in Hanover Twp. think this is all fun and games.
ReplyDeleteThey are clearing finding all this amusing. Careful fellows. I realize that Finnegan is in tight with O'Hare and Angle but you better check out what happened in Northampton County when you ride the "O'Hare wagon of truth".
Let the words stand and the facts remain. Not everyone is a pre- programmed teabagger O'Hare. We can make out what was said and why it was said. Also the MC reporter has more integrity then you ever had. I am sure if we examine his life and yours, we will take his "two week old" news over your "in person news".
You really are fooling no one but your posse anymore. Also citizens and voters are getting more and more upset with government officials who are so willing to get in bed with you and your bizarre wild schemes.
What doctored figures? We don't even know if the new pledged construction (beyond the arena) will require any taxpayer financing. It is premature to suggest it will. The NIZ will encourage private development. If you are going to allege otherwise and suggest the government will be pledging more money how about showing us some figures. Otherwise wait to see what happens and don't make wild claims that have no basis in reality.
ReplyDelete@ 1:56, how am I supposed to refute Bernie's numbers with "real" numbers when he is just make surmising that something will happen int he future and then surmises how much that possible happening will cost taxpayers? I have no numbers to share because nothing has happened on to which to affix a number. It's kind incredible how far out there this debate has become and how powerful bernie's influence falls (even when it has no basis in reality).
ReplyDeleteDear sterling act @ 12:38, it is true that the initial 1947 "tax everything" legislation (Act 481) was, in part, a response of main line community's aggravation about the sterling act. The 1947 act allowed municipalities and cities to impose any tax that they wanted whatsoever which led to cases where an earned income tax was being assessed in both home municipalities and work municipalities--hence making suburban living disadvantageous for municipal tax reasons. That situation ended in 1965, however, when the state legislature created state-wide system for the efficient collection and remittance of EIT to home municipalities only (hence making suburban living more advantageous). Why this remittance policy was put into place has been discussed by Geeting and others and there are valid reasons to think of it as a tax swipe directed from the cities to the burbs for the benefit of private developers. http://www.jongeeting.net/?p=4675
ReplyDeleteOne great things about bloggers is that the leave trails.... here is a post that molovonsky posted on his site, written by him.....
ReplyDelete"Although Bernie and the formal legal system partied company about twenty years ago, blogging has provided Mr. O'Hare with a much more suitable courtroom. In Bernie's new Court, Lehigh Valley Ramblings, he never loses. His methods are subject to no scrutiny from a higher authority. He is free to be an blatant sycophant for those he favors, and an assassin against those he doesn't. He revels in using those trial skills so long prohibited. He will take a query and construct and accuse the commentator of a massive insult. He will add words unsaid, and fabricate intentions. In his closing statement, he will inform the defendant that he will not be permitted a reply. The thing Bernie most enjoys about his courtroom, he is not only the prosecutor, he is also the judge. With a simple push of the delete button, he presents, defends and reaffirms only his viewpoint.
There is a sad element on this field trip to Bernie's Courtroom. Although he takes great pride in his skills, these manipulations do not go unnoticed by the readers. His intellectual dishonesty is much more apparent than he would like to believe."
I bet you would like to drop it, but, Bill White just slammed it out of the park:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.mcall.com/news/local/white/mc-bw-allentown-hockey-arena-opponents-smug-20120521,0,7559417.column
Bill White fails to note that the reporter never bothered to attend the meeting, took a 19-second audio that does not reveal who Supervisors are laughing at, and then illogically concludes that all the townships must be smug. Yeah, that's hitting it out of the park ... in T-Ball.
ReplyDeleteFDAA seems to have an unhealthy obsession with me, like many women. It's a curse.
ReplyDeletePublius, you cite Geeting as a source? How about "links ... from outside this spin zone, perhaps objective sources ... ."
ReplyDelete"What doctored figures? We don't even know if the new pledged construction (beyond the arena) will require any taxpayer financing. It is premature to suggest it will. The NIZ will encourage private development. If you are going to allege otherwise and suggest the government will be pledging more money how about showing us some figures. Otherwise wait to see what happens and don't make wild claims that have no basis in reality."
ReplyDeleteThe whole point of the NIZ is to enable big campaign donors like JB Reilly to use tax money to fund private development. If you think this won't happen, then there is no reason for a 130-acre NIZ now, is there? Given that the current development of about 7 acres will cost use $500 million over 30 years, development of the remaining 23 acres could actually cost us muh more than the $2 billion I low-balled.
I mean, first of all, I reference the acts I am talking about by name in my post and give plenty enough context for people to go back and look them up on their own if they want. Public laws are published on the General Assembly's website.
ReplyDeleteSecond, if you follow the link I cite to Geeting, you will see that he links to an article written by an attorney about the origins of the 1965 act.
Third, we are talking about different things. You are purporting to give hard numbers about public financing. If such numbers exist, they should be in the public domain and you should link to them. If you don't an objective reader is kind of left to think you are just bullshitting them.
6:12, Unless you know who the Supervisors were laughing at, the audio is meaningless. Neither McGill, Bill White, nor you know that. I do.
ReplyDeleteAlso, why are you here? If you would rather have 2-week old news from a person who never attended the meeting over my first-hand account, why do you find it necessary to be here?
@ Bernie 9:58. I would rather hear it straight from the tape and make up my own mind using common sense. Oh, I've done that and it's pretty obvious they are taking pleasure in Allentown's plight.
ReplyDeletePublius, it is impossible to do more than estimation when Allentown has thus far failed to release the financial information, and won't divulge the development projects planned. You condemn me for not having this information, but don't condemn the ultimate source of this secrecy in government - Allentown.
ReplyDeleteYour very name means public, yet you are willing to lap up all kinds of secrecy in government if it comes from Pawlowski. Your thinking seems to be internally inconsistent.
No, I just don't know if any NIZ developers are gonna need any public financing in the future. The cheap rents might make the pricing such that they can do the development on their own dime. So, until we actually have someone come to the board and ask for more public money to secure a loan, I think it is premature to say the project is going to cost us anymore money than the 220 million projection that has been made public. Anything much beyond that is sheer conjecture.
ReplyDelete"No, I just don't know if any NIZ developers are gonna need any public financing in the future. "
ReplyDeleteIf that is so, then we don't need the NIZ.
Much to do about nothing. only allenswamps poor excuse for a mayor and useless union pukes even take this semi seriously.they will look any where for the most slim excuse to promote their hole in the ground.
ReplyDeleteMC's credibility was lost years ago.
Good for Nagle for having the balls to tell the truth
Bake Marker said..
ReplyDeleteWhy am I deleted? Is it becasue I am a real Republican.
Blake, I did not delete you. i checked my spam folder and your comment is not there. I suspect your comment is hung up in cyber space somewhere. Sorry.
ReplyDeleteI'm not Bake Marker, and have no idea what that was about. If I'm to be coy, I'll do a better job than that.
ReplyDeleteThe most notorious minor league ice hockey rink in the entire world ...
ReplyDeleteIF the Chairman's spectacular $ 220.0 million dollar Palace of Sport ever gets built, that is.
Bernie,Public figures and comedy dont mix very well.Andrew dice clay,Carlos Mencia,Lenny Bruce,Rodney Dangerfied,Don Rickles,Larry the Cable Guy,Dave Chappelle and the insult comic dog are all famous comedians and brutal with their humor.Some have been downright hated for their schtick.So I guess it boils down to if one comes up with an insult do we laugh with or at them.In any case it doesnt serve the public well for elected officials to traverse that slippery slope. Simply put politics is not funny.
ReplyDeleteWhen everybody talks costs, nobody factors in the interest on all of these bonds that the taxpayers are on the hook for.
ReplyDeleteFor the heck of it, i dropped the 220 million in an amortization calculator and put a real conservative interest rate on it for 30 yrs. (2%, no way it will be that for all those years). Total amount paid over the life of the loan is almost 300 million dollars (292 to be exact)Comes out to a monthly debt service of 81K each month over 30 years. That is a lot of taxes on hotdogs and cigarettes per month.
Each note is like a radio or television station, broadcasting from its own spot
ReplyDeleteon the dial. - Follow the on-screen instructions to locate
the driver you need. Now press the arrow keys depending
on which side you want to size the window from.
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