Tea baggers. Wackos. Gun-totin', bible-thumpin' beer guzzlers.That's actually what a lot of Republicans think about the tea party movement. Democrats are a little less charitable. Most people, like Morning Call columnist Bill White, believes it will eventually fizzle out, like other populist movements.
Locally, I've been to three meetings. Although I've found much to criticize, I've found much more to compliment. It's unusual and refreshing for me to see several hundred people fill a community center to listen to people speak about issues, even though I disagree with much of what is being said. It's a mostly white and very conservative crew, but they are respectful and fairly well-informed. I think much of the mainstream media criticism is actually their own fear of the unknown, compounded by an elitist disdain.
Although there's no tea party presence at Northampton County Council, I've seen them at Bethlehem City Council and Lehigh County Commissioner meetings. As Commissioners consider a 16.1% tax hike this week, the local tea arty has weighed n during budget hearings and with this letter.
Tea Party Sounds Off on Lehigh County Budget
Instead of spurning them or looking down his nose at them, Executive Don Cunningham has answered them, with this letter.
Cunningham Answers Tea Party Concerns
When you ask why I support Cunningham, this is one of the reasons. He actually listens to people, and is willing to talk to them.
Donny C lays the smack on the Tea Party. I'm sure they will now turn to accusing him of building a Mosque in NYC or having a questionable birth certificate.
ReplyDeleteAnon 9:46 a.m.:
ReplyDeletePlease find and provide sources for ANYTHING in the letter to Don Cunningham that indicates any level of insanity or lack of ability to be rational and reasonable in the letter sent to him by our Lehigh Valley Tea Party group.
Then, please find and provide sources for anything put out by OUR GROUP which says anything about the president's birth or religious affiliations.
The Lehigh Valley Tea party group was created to question elected officials and their actions at ALL levels of government, in a non-partisan fashion, and to support lower spending and constitutionally limited government.
YOU can paint us with whatever brush you like, but when elected officials respond to serious questions with serious responses, we're accomplishing our goals. Kudos to the members of our Taxes and Budget committee who compiled the data for this letter, and kudos to Don Cunningham for treating it with the respect it deserved.
For more information about how to impact government at all levels in a reasoned, rational fashion, go to www.LehighValleyTeaParty.org or to our public blog at www.lvtp912.blogspot.com.
I thought it a good and mutually respectful exchange.
ReplyDeleteIt is good that this group of people have finally opened up their eyes after, I would imagine, most of them were clueless as to what was going on with their government, and many of them likely not voting in most elections. For that I say good for them.
ReplyDeleteBut ... there is a lot to criticize. First, The Tea Party is not a "grass roots" movement, but one that is/has been/continues to be funded by Billionaires (The Kock brothers, Rupert Murdock, etc.) and political hacks like Dick Armey and his Freedom Works group. The money behind the movement have an agenda. They have a problem with money going to people like you and me, but a $3.8 Trillion unfunded tax cut for the upper 2% of Americans, well that's ok.
Second, The economics of what the Tea Party claims they want is bogus and simply doesn't work. There is only so much spending that can be cut. The harsh reality is that budgets like the one Cunningham proposed is reality - higher taxes and scaled back services. As a group they only have a grasp of half of the reality. There is a reason why Rand Paul cannot give a clear, specific answer to the question of what service or benefit he would cut from the Federal Budget.
Third, I would ask Mrs. Rovito and everyone else involved with the Tea Party movement to ask who among them is either earning a living as a result of government spending or receiving a benefit like Medicare or Social Security. Included in this group would be a doctor who received Medicare or Medicade reimbursements, the loan officer who's bank sells loan to Fannie or Freddie, and the laid off worker who is/has collected unemployment benefits. My bet is that most people have some financial tie to government beyond paying their taxes.
Not to mention the Tea Party tends to be a very white, upper middle class movement full of people who stood by when the Bush Administration was committing us to a war of choice in Iraq, running up huge budget deficits during good economic times, and telling us that deficits don't matter.
For a different view of the Tea Party then you will find on Fox News, you can follow the like below to Matt Talabi's latest piece.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/17390/210904?RS_show_page=0
Publius
Although some of your criticism of the tea party movement's fiscal thinking has merit, the notion that this is funded by billionaires is absurd. I've seen it at work here in the LV, where it is very much a grass roots movement, funded by lo al dollars contributed by members. At every meeting (I've been to three), the Treasurer gives a complete financial report, and it includes the sourc of all revenuues. T-shirts, payments at the door, make up the revenue.
ReplyDeleteThis is a real problem among some Dems. They do not see that many people are very angry ad scared about what is going on. It's what I've nticed wth town halls, even those run by Dent. It's what Pam Varkony has noticed. I even hear bits and pieces of this frustration when I go to the grocery.
So NO, this is not a billionaire-funded movement.
I do think some of the fiscal thinking is so unrealistic as to be unworkable. But the people in this group are just like you and me. Be;lieve me, there is no way that abillionaire can convince hundreds of people to come to Chrin Community Center on Friday nights. The ae there bc they want to be there.
Bernie, it's a standard assumption that the Tea Party must be funded by billionaires because the Progressive Liberal movement is in fact funded by billionaires (George Soros, Drummond Pike, etc.)
ReplyDeleteIt's anethema to Liberals that the proletariat speak in any way.
Donna, are you willing to pass a resolution as a group the finally calls the birther movement simply off base. Since you brought up religion, are you willing to pass a resolution that condemns attempts to label the present as a muslim terrorist. Are you willing to pass a resolution that supports the freedom of religion to build a religious center in new york?
ReplyDeleteUntil the tea party chapters start to marginalize the wackos, you are judged by the company you keep. pass those resolutions and i, as a voter, will take you seriously.
But seriously, I can't wait to hear the response to Donny C's reasoned responses.
as a progressive liberal socialist baby killing terrorist, I am still waiting for the money from Soro et al that supposedly pays me off.
ReplyDeleteBoth movements have HUGE supporters. Both movements have grassroots chapters fueled by volunteer hours, sweat, blood and tears. The sooner the ideologues realize this, the sooner they will realize that they actually have a lot in common, unite and toss the powerful funders tainting their ideology from their national ranks and and platforms.
Anon said:
ReplyDelete"a $3.8 Trillion unfunded tax cut for the upper 2% of Americans, well that's ok."
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So much information in one statement, where do I begin?
First off, it's not a tax cut but merely an extension of the current tax rate. In other words, not extending it would be a tax increase.
Now who would support a tax increase - on anyone - in the middle of a recession and believe that this would benefit the country? Why the liberal progressives of course.
The problem is that government spending is out of control and the liberal progressives have to raise taxes to cover it. For now they'll go after the high income earners. Then they'll gradually get around to the rest of us.
Unless our representatives get spending under control, no amount of taxation will be enough.
Anon said:
ReplyDelete"a $3.8 Trillion unfunded tax cut for the upper 2% of Americans, well that's ok."
**********************************
So much information in one statement, where do I begin?
First off, it's not a tax cut but merely an extension of the current tax rate. In other words, not extending it would be a tax increase.
Now who would support a tax increase - on anyone - in the middle of a recession and believe that this would benefit the country? Why the liberal progressives of course.
The problem is that government spending is out of control and the liberal progressives have to raise taxes to cover it. For now they'll go after the high income earners. Then they'll gradually get around to the rest of us.
Unless our representatives get spending under control, no amount of taxation will be enough.
Anon 1:51 said:
ReplyDelete"you are judged by the company you keep."
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The so-called birther movement was started by supporters of Hillary Clinton. That apparently is the company you keep. Will you now condemn the Democrats for their handywork?
As to the "present" (or President, as I call him) being a Muslim terrorist, that's a new one on me. Will you condemn yourself for starting or spreading this accusation?
Perhaps you are referring to a news magazine poll that found approximately 20% of all AMERICANS were unsure of what religion the President practiced. That 20% cut across all party and racial lines. Again, hardly a Tea Party position.
The reality is that no matter what resolutions the Tea Party were to pass in response to your phony accusations, it wouldn't be enough.
Denounce YOURSELF as the political fake that you are and I will take YOU seriously.
Patrick McHenry @ 1:54,
ReplyDeleteThe current tax rate that is set to expire at the end of the year is a TEMPORARY tax rate. So what we are talking about an extension of a TEMPORARY tax cut passed at a time when there was a budget surplus. It is not "an extension of the current tax rate" but a return to the tax rate.
And, I bet it makes you feel good to call me a "liberal progressive." But that is your problem, and the problem with just about everyone who has an opinion on the budget problems our country faces at all levels of government. You appear to be more concerned with calling names instead of dealing with reality.
And the reality is that since 1946 being a politician was the easiest job in the world. If you were a "conservative" you gave me lower taxes. If you were a "liberal" or "progressive" you gave me more benefits and services from the government. Either way, you pushed the bill off on the future. And the future is now.
Call me what you want but I am a realist and reality is that we need to have some limits on what the government does and we need to increase taxes to pay for what it does provide.
Cunningham (and Dean Browning)is one of the few politicians who gets this. It sounds great to say cut spending, but there is only so much that can/should be cut. And there are areas where there should be more spending - like roads and bridges, for example. I bet you weren't complaining this past winter when the snow plows came around to get the snow off your street.
You say we need to cut spending, tell me where? Should we bring our troops home from Iraq and Afghanistan? Should we stop Social Security? What about Medicare and Medicaid? Call me a liberal or progressive or whatever you want, but I believe we should not be invading other countries and social safety nets are more desirable than a return to the 1930s.
And on the local level, when is the last time you went to a school board meeting to complain about the building programs? I have done this over and over to no avail.
For the record, you can label me whatever you want, but I don't put a label on my beliefs.
Publius
Bernie @ 1:34pm,
ReplyDeleteI cannot disagree with the local Tea Party having local funding. But the big picture for the "Tea Party Movement" is clearly funded by big money interests. The NY Times, the Washington Post, and The New Yorker have been doing the footwork on following the money of the larger organizations and that is exactly what they have found. The Koch Brothers are the funding behind Americans for Prosperity (www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/08/30/100830fa_fact_mayer);Karl Rove and Ed Gillespie are behind American Crossroads and Crossroads GPS (blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2010/09/20/rove-gillespie-groups-raise-32-million/); and of course there is Rupert Murdock (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/02/us/politics/02murdoch.html) and his spending plus his propaganda network known as Fox News.
Everyone is allowed to have an opinion, but you cannot have your own facts.
I am not a Dem. I vote for both Ds and Rs. I also don't vote if I do not like either candidate for a position.
And I do get that people are angry. But I also realize that we all need to be accountable for where we are as a country. As a group Americans want everything for nothing; cut my taxes, give me services, build my kid a big-ass school w/o raising my taxes.
The fact that the local Tea Party doesn't get that Cunningham is being responsible proves my point. The next time you go to one of their meetings, take a poll on who is on Social Security or Medicare, or Social Security disability insurance, or who works for a government, or who sends their kid to public schools, or drives on the roads.
As a country we need to stop the bickering and have the honest conversation as to what government should be doing and how it should be financed. It is our money, they have that right, but it is also services that we receive.
Publius
Publius -
ReplyDeleteI label you as a Democrat/liberal/progresssive because that's where your talking points come from. You aren't entitiled to your own made-up facts just because they come from Media Matters.
You try to attack the Tea Party by asking how many of their members are on Social Security, Medicare, etc., but you are intentionally missing the point.
Tea Party members are not against all government, but they realize the government has grown much too large and NEEDS to be cut. Members are willing to admit that and look for ways to cut the government for the good of the country, despite the fact that it might negatively impact them personally. That's patriotism, and a real discussion.
If you actually went to a meeting or had an open mind you would know that.
As far as increasing taxes, let's do some math. We already pay at least 15% on our earnings federally plus 3% at the state level. Social security takes another 7.5%. If you own a home, add in your property taxes, and don't forget the 6% you pay on what you purchase. Then there's the taxes (like the gas tax) where they won't even tell you how much in tax you're paying. Needless to say, that adds up and it's not that we're paying too little.
While the economy corrects itself from time to time, government just continues to grow. It's time that government - and those working for it - face the reality that the party can't go on forever.
Don Cunningham was rendered a local footnote by Scott Ott's near upset last November. Half of voters then, and likely more than half now, don't like Don and would sooner throw him out than anything else. He'll not be the next governor. He'll not be more than a former county exec who turned out incompetent and was eventually rejected by voters. Anybody could beat him today. He doesn't matter anymore. Let's just get through the rest of his term and begin picking up the pieces the day he's sent packing.
ReplyDeletePatrick McHenry,
ReplyDeleteAgain, label me what you want, I don't care. We both appear to believe that government is important. So I guess that is not what makes me a liberal/ progressive and you whatever you want to label yourself. And, really, if you read what I believe - that we have to contract government at all levels to what they should essentially be doing and pay for it (which mean higher taxes), that is not what progressives are saying at all. Sorry if I believe that we need to pay for what we get from our government.
You say that Tea Party members are willing to "look for ways to cut the government for the good of the country, despite the fact that it might negatively impact them personally. That's patriotism, and a real discussion." That sounds GREAT!!! But what does that really mean?
Are you saying the those associated with the Tea Party are willing to give up a portion of their personal Social Security benefits and, as Rand Paul suggested in yesterday's debate on Fox News Sunday, slap a $2,000 deductible on their Medicare benefit? Or do they really mean that those of us who are under the age of 50 have to take a cut in the future and pay for their benefits? As someone who is under the age of 50 I do not feel it is my responsibility to pay for the boomer generation and myself.
So what, specifically would you cut? Should we slash the Defense Budget? Should we cut benefits on EVERYONE? How do you get a budget in line without normalized taxes?
On the local level, what services are essential and which are not? I want to hear your ideas.
I do have an open mind, but so far you have been saying just what the well paid Republican operatives want you to say: "cut taxes, cut spending."
Give me some meat and I would be happy to discuss.
Publius
Publius, My own focus is much more narrow. The NYT and other major publications are making the mistake of thinking this is some top down movement by looking at some national organizations that are, in fact, funded by Republican zillionaires. I've been looking more locally because this is a real grass roots movement. Funding in both the LV and in the Poconos is all local. I doubt they'd accept money from some gazillionaire. So that's pretty much why I disagree with your conclusion on funding.
ReplyDeleteAs for the need to stop bickering, I agree completely.
Oh, so many ways to go with this...
ReplyDeletePublius said: "As someone who is under the age of 50 I do not feel it is my responsibility to pay for the boomer generation and myself."
You don't think we've crossed over into "generational theft" yet?
Well, when you catch on that we have, don't whine about it. Or organize against it... unless you have all the answers ahead of time.
And how dare you complain to school boards when you or family members have benefited from public schools?
This is how it works, right? Everything's OK until we perceive that it's our ox that's being gored...
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThe tea party was answered by Mr. Cunningham. Government is very easy when you don't have to make the hard choices just bitch about them. Most of the members get disability checks from the government or are at home moms being subsidized by the working father.
ReplyDeleteWhinny babies. Grow the Hell up.
i know for a fact that parts of cunningham are kenyan. or so he keeps claiming.
ReplyDeleteMe, too.
ReplyDeletePart 1
ReplyDeleteAnon 11:30 said: "Government is very easy when you don't have to make the hard choices just bitch about them. Most of the members get disability checks from the government or are at home moms being subsidized by the working father. Whinny babies. Grow the Hell up."
Government is very easy, is it not, when you choose not to think about the hard choices, just sit around and accept whatever crumbs the elected officials you probably didn't vote for anyway throw at you. Instead of "bitching," just bend over and say "Thank you, sir, may I have another?!"
Your ignorance, both about the issues that face our country as well as who and what the local tea party group is all about, is stunning.
Your desire to shut down the debate among those who don't agree with you is extremely telling as well - clearly, it was OK for people to "bitch" when it was George Bush they were bitching about....but it's apparently not "patriotic" to bitch about anything when Democrats are in charge? Hypocrites never change, sadly. Even when they're "whinning," which is a sound I've associated with horses all my life.
The vast majority of members of the Lehigh Valley Tea party group are working, taxpaying Americans who are struggling to take care of their families at the same time they're fighting to save their country's future.
An extremely high percentage of our members are military veterans, from WWII to Vietnam to the Gulf. Many are retired, having worked their whole lives and contributed to the benefits they have EARNED from our government. Some of these members are the smartest, slickest senior citizens I've ever met, and they GET IT.
Many own small businesses and are struggling to make payroll and trying to figure out how to cope with the uncertainty of next year's tax burden, or how the health care bill will affect them.
Some work for big companies and are already seeing higher health care costs from the "reform" bill that 57% of Americans want to see repealed. Some just have plain old blue collar jobs and are worried about whether they'll still have those jobs next week or next month, considering the condition of the economy.
And, yup, there are some "at home moms being subsidized by the working father." Wow. What a lot of contempt for parents who make the difficult choice to take care of their children PERSONALLY by having mom at home with them. Personally, I've always considered it a blessing and a privilege to have been able to stay home with my children when they were little - although I dragged my oldest son to work at my restaurant WITH me when he was FOUR DAYS old until he was about 18 months old, when the restaurant closed. In today's world, staying home with your children is DIFFICULT, and morons like you make it sound like it's a BAD thing, instead of the blessing that it is.
To Anon. 1:51 - why the heck should we have to pass resolutions about things that have nothing to do with us? Should we pass a resolution that says we're not racist, too? Or that members don't beat their wives (either according to Shariah guidelines or not)? I didn't see anyone from your side jumping up and down condemning the people who carried "Kill Bush" signs in "peace" marches. Did anyone on your side denounce Cindy Sheehan? The best thing we can ALL do to marginalize the wackos is to IGNORE THEM. The more press they get, the more outrageous their desire for their 15 minutes of fame gets. They are marginalized by their very nuttiness. And what, pray tell, does building an Islamic victory monument at Ground Zero have to do with ANY of this?
Frankly, since you're obviously unwilling or afraid to identify yourself, I, for one, as a voter, don't CARE if you take the tea party movement seriously - because we do not take YOU seriously.
Part 1
ReplyDeleteAnon 11:30 said: "Government is very easy when you don't have to make the hard choices just bitch about them. Most of the members get disability checks from the government or are at home moms being subsidized by the working father. Whinny babies. Grow the Hell up."
Government is very easy, is it not, when you choose not to think about the hard choices, just sit around and accept whatever crumbs the elected officials you probably didn't vote for anyway throw at you. Instead of "bitching," just bend over and say "Thank you, sir, may I have another?!"
Your ignorance, both about the issues that face our country as well as who and what the local tea party group is all about, is stunning.
Your desire to shut down the debate among those who don't agree with you is extremely telling as well - clearly, it was OK for people to "bitch" when it was George Bush they were bitching about....but it's apparently not "patriotic" to bitch about anything when Democrats are in charge? Hypocrites never change, sadly. Even when they're "whinning," which is a sound I've associated with horses all my life.
The vast majority of members of the Lehigh Valley Tea party group are working, taxpaying Americans who are struggling to take care of their families at the same time they're fighting to save their country's future.
An extremely high percentage of our members are military veterans, from WWII to Vietnam to the Gulf. Many are retired, having worked their whole lives and contributed to the benefits they have EARNED from our government. Some of these members are the smartest, slickest senior citizens I've ever met, and they GET IT.
Many own small businesses and are struggling to make payroll and trying to figure out how to cope with the uncertainty of next year's tax burden, or how the health care bill will affect them.
Some work for big companies and are already seeing higher health care costs from the "reform" bill that 57% of Americans want to see repealed. Some just have plain old blue collar jobs and are worried about whether they'll still have those jobs next week or next month, considering the condition of the economy.
And, yup, there are some "at home moms being subsidized by the working father." Wow. What a lot of contempt for parents who make the difficult choice to take care of their children PERSONALLY by having mom at home with them. Personally, I've always considered it a blessing and a privilege to have been able to stay home with my children when they were little - although I dragged my oldest son to work at my restaurant WITH me when he was FOUR DAYS old until he was about 18 months old, when the restaurant closed. In today's world, staying home with your children is DIFFICULT, and morons like you make it sound like it's a BAD thing, instead of the blessing that it is.
To Anon. 1:51 - why the heck should we have to pass resolutions about things that have nothing to do with us? Should we pass a resolution that says we're not racist, too? Or that members don't beat their wives (either according to Shariah guidelines or not)? I didn't see anyone from your side jumping up and down condemning the people who carried "Kill Bush" signs in "peace" marches. Did anyone on your side denounce Cindy Sheehan? The best thing we can ALL do to marginalize the wackos is to IGNORE THEM. The more press they get, the more outrageous their desire for their 15 minutes of fame gets. They are marginalized by their very nuttiness. And what, pray tell, does building an Islamic victory monument at Ground Zero have to do with ANY of this?
Frankly, since you're obviously unwilling or afraid to identify yourself, I, for one, as a voter, don't CARE if you take the tea party movement seriously - because we do not take YOU seriously.
Part 2
ReplyDelete(I see the site is doubling my comments again....sorry....)
Want to see what grassroots is all about? Go here to get a look at just how many local, grassroots tea party groups there are - oh, yes, the group which is allowing grassroots groups to list their organizations FREE on their website is the Tea Party Patriots: http://www.teapartypatriots.org/Groups.aspx.
As to all the big national funding....well, here in the Lehigh Valley we're still waiting for our check! Until it comes, we'll continue to ask members and those who attend our regular monthly meetings for a $1 donation at the door to help us cover the room rental.
In the meantime, I'd love to see a list of who laid out the money for the free buses, box lunches, t-shirts, and signs for the warm bodies who threw those signs all over the National Mall on Saturday like the bunch of disrespectful pigs they clearly are.
Speaking of funding - anything that raises the percentage of income tax anyone pays is a TAX HIKE, no matter what you call it. If you have to pay MORE next year than you paid THIS year, it's a tax hike.
Publius said: "As someone who is under the age of 50 I do not feel it is my responsibility to pay for the boomer generation and myself."
Honey, it already IS your "responsibility" whether you like it or not - the government says so, they decide how much money they extract from your paycheck (which doesn't even go into a "lockbox" anymore) and now that Social Security has actually started to pay out more than the payroll taxes coming in, it's only going to get worse. Your children and grandchildren will be covering it, too - they'll need to be "responsible" for the interest on the massive debt we're accumulating.
So where to cut? How about the fake rainforest in Indiana? Or the government funded studies of monkey sexuality? Or any public money at ALL for stadiums and entertainment complexes which benefit private investors far more than taxpayers? Or money for a polka hall of fame? Dig through the stimulus bill, or visit one of the websites which track pork spending, and you'll find LOTS of places to cut.
OK, that's enough. Bernie, thank you for telling the truth about our local group. Frankly, you're not the guy many of us would have expected to see defending us, but we appreciate your willingness to watch and learn. Heck, we're still learning, too, and we know we have a long way to go.
For more information, go to www.lehighvalleyteaparty.org or visit out public blog at www.lvtp912.blogspot.com.
"it was OK for people to "bitch" when it was George Bush they were bitching about....but it's apparently not "patriotic" to bitch about anything when Democrats are in charge"
ReplyDeleteactually many of us are wondering where all you folks where 8 years ago.
"actually many of us are wondering where all you folks where 8 years ago."
ReplyDeleteOh, we were sitting at home fat and happy with our tax cuts for the rich, watching Code Pink and the anti-war protesters hang the President in effigy while comparing the United States to the Taliban because were were involved in wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.
Hey, where did those guys GO? Aren't we still involved in two wars?
Funny how all those patriotic anti-war protesters don't have anything to say about Obama's surge in Afghanistan.....or the troops still in Iraq.