Take a 5% paycut or face layoffs.That's the option Council Prez Ron Angle is giving County workers, complaining that he's not making enough headway to eliminate a possible twenty per cent tax hike next year. "If everybody agrees to a five percent pay cut, we'll agree to no layoffs," Angle stated.
That brought Director of Administration John Conklin to his feet. He just finished negotiating a deal for corrections officers, providing for modest increases (2.25%, 5%, 2.5%) over the next three years. Council, including Angle, just voted for that a few weeks ago. Conklin is using that as a basis for his negotiations with other unions, and he told Angle unions won't respond to efforts to renegotiate contracts.
Angle responded that's because senior union members are more interested in protecting their pensions and salaries than in saving the jobs of junior workers. "A job with 95% of what you make and a guarantee. That's not bad," said Angle.
In a recent CNBC poll, three out of four workers said they'd accept a pay cut to save their jobs. Half would accept salary reductions of up to 9%. But would they accept less if they were saving someone else's job instead of their own? Five per cent might be just enough to push some County workers, especially those in clerical positions, into poverty. Many of them work second jobs now.
The Express Times' Sarah Cassi has a more detailed report.
58 comments:
Correction officers get a %% raise but not Gracedale nurses. It's good to see the priorities of the Administration is prisoners over the elderly. Amazing
cut and slash - that's the way to fix the county. screw the unions. angle is right on
a 3 year contract, averaging 3% per year? in this environment, that's hardly modest. hopefully, there are some substntial givebacks on healthcare or something similar to balance out what appears to be a generous contract.
As was the case with Roman in the LC thread yesterday, Angle has this right, but his previous decision to approve the corrections contract makes him look confused, at best. It's not like he couldn't see problems ahead.
The only saving grace is that it is someone else's increase he approved, and not his own.
County workers only have themselves to blame..They sat on there butts during the election and now they are faced with an Angle led council..Now they are crying..Bo Hoo
This all goes back to the Reibman Times
He was like a kid left go in a candy store. I think it is a fair option. Have the Controller look into it.
"This all goes back to the Reibman Times
He was like a kid left go in a candy store. I think it is a fair option. Have the Controller look into it."
six years after the fact that excuse is a little old...
aren't those employees taxpayers to ? every single bill has gone up ! from ppl ,cable groceries and everything in between, so can taxes!!! why should all the county troubles be put on the back of it's employee's thats crap ... easy for angle to say he's loaded , i don't oppose angle and i usually agree with him but not on this one i think it's unfair to all involved .
The Correction Officer contract contains changes that will reduce overtime by over $500,000 per year.
That is equal to 5% of pay for Correction Officers. The OT account in the 2011 budget will be reduced by $500,000.
12:36 -
The point is not whether Norco's troubles be should be put on the backs of the employees but, rather, why shouldn't public employees be subject to the same economic ups and downs experienced by those who pay their salaries.
What, on God's green Earth, entitles them to a special exemption?
2:44 -
Nice shell game. Kind of like when Giant raises the price of London Broil before the BOGO Free promo.
Ron Angle is absolutely correct. Everyone is tightening their belts, and these folks should be happy to have jobs. 5% is nothing compalred to a 100% pay cut.
We have to take control of the fianances. NExt we work on the pensions and lifetime medical.
It all has to be brought into line with the private sector.
nobody is asking for a special exception the COUNTY IS NOT BROKE !!! THAT IS UTTER AND COMPLETE NONSENCE !!! check for yourself and if they have to layoff people then so be it !
Clem,
excellent point. there was a time when public employees could plead poverty compared to the private sector, thus justifying the job security they enjoyed. the simple fact is, however, that public sector pay is now on par with that in the private sector.
there is absolutely no reason why they, in the most trying economic times in two generations, can't help shoulder some of the burden the private sector bears.
The public sector retires in their 50s while the private sector works until 70 and then gets a paper route to carry public sector goldbricks until they die. Enough.
Who's fault is that ? you can't retire until you worked enough years anyway . what makes you think there life is any easier than anyone ele's ? enough said .
Those of you sitting there bashing County employees really need to take a good hard look at what we get paid before you go running your mouths off. The rank and file County employees made next to nothing. The amount of time I have with the County combined with the educational background I have attained makes me GROSSLY underpaid. My friends in the private sector laugh when I tell them my biweekly net income. Laugh. I'm not saying that there isn't waste in the County - there is, and it's all at the top. You look at the prison, how many deputy warden positions do you possibly need? Every department has a department head and a deputy, not to mention other supervisors. Are those positions really necessary? I would also like to mention that those non-Union workers, including supervisors, all received their raises this year. But Angle is asking to open up union contracts, which aren't that great to begin with, believe me, to ask those people doing all the actual work to take a 5% decrease. Bernie's right - that will push many workers into poverty, especially those of us doing it on our own. Clerical workers barely clear $23,000 annually, and you want to ask them to take a 5% decrease? What rock did you crawl out from under? If you want to treat County workers the same way as private sector workers, that's fine. Give us the pay that private sector receives - it's more. Check out the Department of Labor and Industry wage statistics if you don't believe me, and then find out what County workers make. If County employees should feel the negative effects of the economy when it's in a downturn, then the converse should also be true. When the economy is booming, we better get the raises that all of you get too.
I have over 20 years in the County and a 4 year College degree. In the private sector I could be making $30,000 more easy. I chose the County for the benefits and retirement. Don't even begin to tell me that the private and public sectors are on par with salaries. I've received 2-2.5% raises for years now, even during the times that the private sector was getting 3 times that amount.
It's easy to blame the employees for the economic times that the County is in now. Cut the salary, cut the benefits, cut the pension. Good luck finding long-term quality employees in the future if you that happens.
Bullshit. Thank god fro John Stoffa and Ron Angle. They are telling it like it is. Mr. Stoffa and Angle should tell the goldbricker public employees to take that 5% cut or we will throw 10% of you out the door.
Anlge said John Stoffa would be a great County Executive and now I see he is doing the right thing.
Say no to greedy unions and government and yes to Mr. Angle and Stoffa. You don't see either of these guys lapping up public tax dollars.
Amen!
Another well-informed argument. You don't have a clue what really is going on at the Government center.
There appears to be, among the county workers commenting, a fundamental lack of understanding of why government exists in the first place.
The government is a creation of the governed, to govern with the consent of and, I would submit, at the direction of the governed. You were not here first and are not the grantor of our rights.
You are not entitled to dictate the terms of your employment. Anyone who does not appreciate the terms of his/her employment are free to fend for themselves, just as are those whom you serve.
We are the payors, the guarantors, and we, through our representatives, will decide. As I have said to the teachers so many times, so I say to any other public employee:
Enough with the bluff. You are not entitled because you are in place. Don't make empty threats. Walk the walk. Show us you mean business. If we find we cannot make it work without you, we will come hat in hand, beg forgiveness and pay your ransome.
sounds like the majority of commentors against this are nothing but over benefited union pukes. live to learn to do with less like everyone else. you go ron!!! cut the greedly employees till it hurts but make sure management takes their hits too. screw all of the arrogant county employees because they have been allowed to screw the public for decades
"sounds like the majority of commentors against this are nothing but over benefited union pukes. "
I would avoid calling out names like that.
"Enough with the bluff. You are not entitled because you are in place. Don't make empty threats. Walk the walk. Show us you mean business."
Regardless of the other arguments put forth by my fellow county employees, I will address your point of view, Clem. I agree with you and Angle, that we should run county government like a business. In our division, we were able to increase revenue (not through taxes) by over 30% just this past year, yet with Angle's blanket statement (and yours as well), you still want to 5% of my pay. That's not an incentive, to say the least. Administrators must be creative in finding grants or other revenue streams for the county, much like we have been proactive in our division. For example, the mileage rates charged by sheriff's department have not been changed by county council since Al Diomedio was Sheriff. Adjust for today's inflation or have them charge by actual mileage and there's a couple thousand dollars found that doesn't come from taxpayers dollars. That's just one example. But there is revenue out there. Administrators just have to re-examine the way they do business and have enough chutzpah to change. But the last resort should be cutbacks. Last year there was a 10% mandated cutback, now this year is 5%. There's not much left, but skin and bones services. Now, I just talked to you like a businessman. Now cut out the allegories, such as equating my salary as ransom, thank you.
CB
3:18 am...great job..However, these pathetic morons doing the yelling have absolutely no idea what is happening at County government and sadly enough either do our new Council members..You mentioned your department.If these brainless anti union anti government SS wantabees had a clue what they were speaking about they would realize that by laying off human service workers, whose salaries and benefits cost County taxpayers next to nothing, would be absolutely insane..The county, on the whole , pays about 10% of their salaries and gets 100% of the services..Now even Clem and the SS boys would probably be willing to pay $100,000 for a million dollars worth of services..And if they say they would not, then you should realize the kind of intellect you are dealing with here.
" I've received 2-2.5% raises for years now, even during the times that the private sector was getting 3 times that amount."
you must be joking.
"If these brainless anti union anti government SS wantabees"
so ANYONE who disagrees with you on this issue is a brainless, anti-government nazi? sweet.
all angle will have to do is trot a half dozen folks like you out, who share your gift for hyperbole and sense of entitlement , and the taxpayers will demand 50% cutbacks.
CB -
New revenue? You allude to grants, which are funded by Federal or State TAXES, unless you are soliciting private industry for donations. So, your claim is that you've generated revenue by getting your hands on non-county taxes? Like Seagulls fighting for french fries on the boardwalk.
Perhaps your division is one that can increase fees. That would be revenue generation but, again, it is an increase in the price of government. At this time the public is simply saying "We do not wish to pay any more for government. In fact, we wish to pay less and would like to pursue our options."
See, in the end, it is (or should be) the public that decides what it wants from government and what it is willing to pay. Then, it is the labor pool's choice to seek and/or stay in public employment given those conditions. Even when times are good, I fail to see where we must then pay more if the labor market does not dictate it. When I have a good year, I don't just run out and overpay for goods and services just because I made the money. And no one has the right to tell me I must.
For those who disagree, run for office on a platform of increasing the size and scope of government and of raising taxes regularly to make sure employees get wage increases and guaranteed pensions. See how that works out for you.
Those who follow the big government philosophy usually promise everything for nothing, or pledge that they will "get the rich to pay their fair share". It never works out that way, and we end up where we are now.
As for the mileage reimbursement, that is expense control, not revenue generation. Nice work, by the way. I saved one of my clients over 12K so far this year, but that is part of what my contract requires of me. So I got a thank you, and the pay he was willing to offer when we renewed this year, which was more than 15% less than he paid the year before. I had, and have the right to drop him and find someone else if I feel what he will pay is not fair. That's how it is on the outside, and how it should be in the hallowed halls as well.
The point is not whether Norco's troubles be should be put on the backs of the employees but, rather, why shouldn't public employees be subject to the same economic ups and downs experienced by those who pay their salaries.
What, on God's green Earth, entitles them to a special exemption?
Every NC taxpayer also accepted a 5% pay cut? Your argument is weak.
Taking your ridiculous argument further, why shouldn't I pay 5% less for this loaf of bread? I'm paying their salaries!
these folks should be happy to have jobs
And you should be grateful for the services they provide.
Clem - A tax payer does not get to pick and choose the services which he or she feels they will support with taxes. This is basic stuff.
10:08 -
Of course not. Gubmint will tell us what, and how much of it, we need. It says we just can't get by with employees who don't have defined benefit pensions, or majestic courthouses, or poorly managed county nursing homes, or judges who put in less than a full day's work or tipstaves that get paid full time wages for PT jobs or...
And they've counted on the dependent sheep not to pay attention as they piled on more and more. Finally, Angle and his faction are attempting to put an end to this nonsense.
10:01 -
No, not everyone. Many got hammered for the whole magilla.
And, yes, we do get to choose which loaf of bread we buy. Price increases are market supported, and the company who won't hold the price we are willing to pay need or provide value we believe justifies 5% higher pricing, will quickly adjust or lose business.
THIS is basic stuff.
10:02 -
Grateful? We are paying for those services.
Sounds like when Odumbo said we oughta be thanking him.
Just can't make this shit up.
Just to enlighten you...a lot of county employees have not had a raise for 2010 AGAIN. Back in 2002 our pay was frozen by Reibman with no answers, so the employees unionized in 2003. It was not until 2007 our contract was settled. Some of us got no where near what other counties are paid for the same job in a same class county. There is no contract currently and we have received no pay raise AGAIN. To say take a 5% pay cut or pink slip is pompous and ludicrous. The county has NOT been accountable for the money they have wasted…!
Here are some of the headlines...
Audit: Errors cost county $216,000 in employee insurance ** Separate oversight may result in $1.3 million shortage in premiums.
Director wants to start with clean slate
**Northampton County human resources head takes over after years of costly setbacks.
County budget records show that under Stoffa's first human resources director, Connie Sutton-Falk, the department spent nearly $702,000 on lawyers' bills from 2006 through 2009, often to handle arbitration over contracts or employee grievances. In 2007 and 2008, arbitration awards with five labor groups cost the county about $5.15 million in wage increases, back pay, overtime and other factors
County registrar choice hangs up over salary ** Panel favors Howard Erney at $64,500 a year. Official says pay limit is $54,000.
700 Gracedale workers get five-year contract ** Nursing home AFSCME employees receive 4.5 percent annual raises, but will pay more for health care coverage. (And Gracedale is one of the reasons the county is in the RED)
Northampton DA launches health insurance probe ** Audit showed people listed for benefits even after their deaths.
The matter became public last month, when the results of a county controller audit showed ineligible employees, former employees, retirees and family members remained on the books as eligible. [John M. Morganelli] said more than $100,000 in benefits is being scrutinized...
AND to add to that lets repair the parking structure that does not provide adequate parking; pay to landscape in front of the NEW juvenile building during the "drought" and not water them so all the plants die! Or put stone down on a lot at the corner of Union and Washington Sts, and PAINT the stone ONLY to black top it the following year.
Has anyone asked how much it costs to redo council chambers??? I hear at least a half of a million...
And where is the casino $$$?
NOW WHO SHOULD TAKE THE PAY CUT?!!!!
"Just to enlighten you...a lot of county employees have not had a raise for 2010 AGAIN. Back in 2002 our pay was frozen by Reibman with no answers, so the employees unionized in 2003. It was not until 2007 our contract was settled. Some of us got no where near what other counties are paid for the same job in a same class county. There is no contract currently and we have received no pay raise AGAIN."
my last employer never lived up to the financial promises they made to me when i started.
guess what? i didn't bitch that the shareholders had an obligation to raise my salary. i left, in the midst of the recession, and found another job.
i suggest rather than bitch about what the taxpayers owe you, you explore the private sector, or employment with another governmental body, if you are so undercompensated at the county.
Clem - So it is the list of services you have a problem with but you are OK with fire, police, road crews, water and sewer folks, museum personnel, forest rangers, blah blah blah. Your anti-governent rhetoric is so tired and infantile (using words like "gubmint" - really?).
Many government employees got hammered for the whole magilla too. Are you that blind to what is happening around you? Go ask some teachers in Easton. As for freedom of choice, I do believe you are free to choose the municipality and county to live in. But this is passing the absurd point that NC is more expensive than other counties insofar that they are pricing themselves out of the market. Ludicrous, clueless tea-bagging nonsense.
10:02 -
Grateful? We are paying for those services.
Sounds like when Odumbo said we oughta be thanking him.
Just can't make this shit up.
Yes, you are paying a modest amount for a variety of services that you wouldn't do in a million years. Those people allow you to do what you do without societal chaos.
To Clem from CB
Your argument does not make sense. First, grants are open for competition among municipalities. Under your premise, you would rather our division NOT apply for reimbursement because it's federal or state money? That's ludicrous. I would rather compete for grants, so that Northampton County gets more than their share and not give it away to another county within the Commonwealth. If the State is putting these grants out there, then I have a responsibility to go after them. Now, if your argument is for the State to not have these grants, then that's a different argument and one I can't help you with because the legislature deems it necessary.
Secondly, your other argument fails as well. The additional mileage fee is revenue generating because currently a flat fee is due on writ service. The state law mandates that mileage is to be calculated on the number of attempted services. The Sheriff's Department is missing out on fees because the mileage rate that is currently in place is from the late 1990's. State mileage rates have increased since then. The County is not taking advantage of these fees. Your argument does not make sense and I suspect you don't have an understanding how the Sheriff's Department is supposed to compute mileage on writ services. The County is losing money here. This is just one example.
Lastly, I asked to have a conversation with you like a businessman. Don't compare me to seagulls. It's demeaning.
CB
"Clem - So it is the list of services you have a problem with but you are OK with fire, police, road crews, water and sewer folks, museum personnel, forest rangers, blah blah blah. Your anti-governent rhetoric is so tired and infantile (using words like "gubmint" - really?)."
no one is arguing the need for some of these services. what is being argued is that the government sector employees are not entitled to be immune from the fall out of this economic debacle.
Just raise the dam taxes and stop grandstandig Ronny boy,you know you have to it,so stop all bullshit.What about lehigh county a few years ago they had an increase of approx.70% and now even have a surplus,with some major projects also being completed.Wow a tax increase on county taxes what a joke the county taxes are so low its ridiculas.So in ending i would like to say to Ronny and the rest of his bullshit county council RAISE THE TAXES AND STOP ALL THE BULLSHIT ABOUT PAY CUTS AND LAYOFFS,OR ARE YOU AFRAID YOU WONT GET REELECTED TO YOUR GLORIOUS 9,000.00 AYEAR BULLSHIT COUNCIL JOB!
"what is being argued is that the government sector employees are not entitled to be immune from the fall out of this economic debacle."
If you agree with Angle, then why does the 5% HAVE to come out of the County employees salaries? Why can't it come out of some other line item? It appears that you and Angle are targeting County employees and not having the objective of saving money.
Not all County workers make large salaries per year and those of us like myself who earn less than $30,000 Gross per year really will be hurt by a pay cut....What about a pay freeze?? I am sure most of us would be open to this idea. If they need to cut salaries they should start with those that earn over $40 to $50 thousand per year. All of us are in the same situation here...everything is going up..up ...up and we are being asked to give up more and more. It isn't fair to expect the little guy to always bare the brunt. As far as getting 4.5 raises in our last contract at Gracedale....we were actually suprised however it was well deserved considering years prior. They could also cut incentive bonuses that county workers get for working weekends. Don't cut the base salaries...cut the perks. I also feel there are many positions in the county that are a waste of money. They hire these titled people and they push their job duties off on lower class worker and loaf around all day acting busy and the problem is no one to go to and complain.
"I suspect you don't have an understanding how the Sheriff's Department is supposed to compute mileage on writ services."
Obviously, I did not address the same issue you raised. And you are correct that I do not have a direct understanding of the convoluted, bureaucratic, and ultimately, costly hoops you must jump through and manage to get "our fair share" of tax money that has been syphoned out of the economy.
You can have the last word. The fact that there are such procedures which must be managed and are usually mismanaged is support enough for the viewpoint that government in all phases has become an unwieldy and unaffordable monster which mutates like the Blob.
Remember one thing from all of this: Government creates no wealth and has no money. It has only the money it takes by force of law from the wealth producers, that it redistributes in order to perpetuate itself.
And in all of this, you never once read that I do not believe there is a place for government. That place is at the right hand of the people who empower and fund it, not on top of them.
Anon 9:17
You are absolutely correct. The cuts need to start at the top. Especially with those who already received their raises this year. Asking a clerical worker or a janitor to take 5% pay cut or lose their job is not fair.
Not when you have supervisors who are clearing $50K annually and only have 3 or 4 people that report to them. Not when you are spending how much money to renovate County council chambers. Not when you pay for water to be in each and every Courtroom. Not when you have tipstaffs working less than 40 hours weekly and getting paid for a full week. Not when you are STILL paying for senior judges when all judge positions have been filled. Not when CSF wasted how much money on attorney fees to fight simple grievances that should have been handled by HR.
The corruption and dishonesty in Northampton County has gotten to the point where it's next to impossible to get out of it. The County employees who will be negatively impacted by this pay cut are not the ones who created the problems, nor are they the ones who continue to bleed the wells dry. But they are the ones who will feel the brunt of it.
Listen you employees, you know who you are, you all wanted John Stoffa. You all screamed it can't get any worse. You formed the union, even though the year after the freeze all the money came as a larger raise step.
So to you aholes, tough crap. Some of us said, wait is this what we want but, no you were consumed with greed and hate.
Lehigh County folks warned us that Stoffa was no friend of county employee's but, no, we believe him . He promised everyone raises and arbitration. Yeah, I know, I was at the meetings too. Difference is I didn't believe it and I was right.
You guys have what you wanted and for that the rest of us thank you. Stoffa and Angle now run the County and everyone is screwed. Good job. So quit crying, I hope he cuts 20%, since I already found another job. Dingbats.
To 10:58 PM
Your diatribe against Stoffa did not contribute to this thread. If your rant is any indication on how you did your job at Northampton County, then I'm glad your gone.
This may be off-topic, but I think it is worth saying:
So we are all left to scramble after the crumbs? And this is the 'hope and change' world we have to look forward to?
Yes, we are in rough economic times but does that mean we have to beat up each other? Our American standard of living is being reduced systematically: less health care, less energy, smaller wages, fewer homes, we shouldn't buy and drive nice cars ... is there any aspect of American culture that is not under attack?
These arguments that cheer that everyone should get less and less just amaze me. We used to be a nation where we celebrated when everyone won. Now we celebrate when any group gets their lot reduced.
Elsewhere in this blog is a reference to Jon Geeting and his bleetings. His beliefs are exactly those of our current President: wealth redistribution, lowering of expectations and living standards for all. And Geeting sees this as progress and victory? And those who disagree are stupid and ill informed? My my my.
What is the future going to hold for our kids if we continue to accept an America of less and less and less?
They just changed the name of the energy bill heading toward Congress from Cap and Trade to the climate security act or some such nonsense: it will increase the cost of energy and NOT have a positive impact on the environment at all. Doesn't anyone see what is happening to us?
No. Because we are scrambling after scraps and arguing amongst ourselves about who should lose the most. Precisely what a government likes to see in the electorate.
amen to that !
Clerical employees earn $8.00 to
$13.00 an hour. I would rather have Mr. Angle and Mr. Stoffa layoff personnel in the Sheriff's Department. They have way too many employees. Also, they have too many people for security at all the entrances. When you figure the cost for wages and benefits, its enormous. When the County constructed a new courtroom for Judge Mcfadden the tab was over $800,000.00 now that courtroom
houses the cafeteria, a total rehab at a cost of $200,000-$300,000.00. Soup and salad please. Why should the County reduce salaries on the backs of people who earn very little to begin with, when they have lavishly and foolishly spent tax dollars. The public should see the bills for the courthouse expansion, especially for the brazillian wood and the lunch table for the judges. I find it appalling to reduce the salaries of hard working people, when the court, current and past administrations have squandered money over the years. Another example of waste is the current domestic relations building on Union Street, cost about 5 million to build, there's a total of 58 parking spaces, but there's 53 employees for the department. I think the County should rethink how they continue to waste taxpayer dollars and not take it out on the employees, after all we didn't beg you to spend 45 million on the courthouse expansion.
Excellent points, I must say. I also agree thata 5% cut, while it sounds good, will have a disproportionate impact on those who are at the lower end of the salary scale.
I'm not due what the point is concerning waste at Domestic Relations and the parking lot. You'd want a large parking lot, so please explain what you mean.
Bernie,
There are many of us who can't say what needs to be said or do what needs to be done for fear of losing our jobs. It's a very real fear to County employees, not just during these tough economic times. Someone needs to be held accountable for the poor spending habits. Someone needs to open their eyes and see that the problem isn't the employees, it's certain people in both County and Court Administration. We all know that you-know-what rolls downhill, but let's not forget where it starts.
Be careful. Stoffa has told Department heads to tell some managers to keep their eyes and ears open to report "bad" employee's.
This is a completely unaccountable crew. No one including the press holds them accountable for anything. They even laugh about it. Be careful about your job.
"This is a completely unaccountable crew."
Accountable to you and the unions or to the voters that elected him?
"...to keep their eyes and ears open to report "bad" employee's."
That is such a ridiculous and absurd statement. Why would anyone advocate to keep "bad" employees?
"Be careful. Stoffa has told Department heads to tell some managers to keep their eyes and ears open to report "bad" employee's."
Lie.
"it's certain people in both County and Court Administration"
really? who? if you're gonna tar a whole group, at least have the courage to specify who you're attacking.
If by "bad" employee you mean someone who questions the Administration internally. You are right Mr. Stoffa has no intention of keeping them and wants them reported.
What about Mr Angle& Mr . Stoffa???
I want to know ifthese so called workers of the people are going to take a %5 cut in pay. I know a few years ago when Mr. Stoffa put on a freeze in pay he revieved a $20,000.00 a year raise. Now these men and I use the term loosly , want to do it again and they want the employees to take a pay cut this time. I hear nothing of them ever taking a pay cut. Both men and councle should hide their head in shame when going to work.
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