At yesterday's crowded town hall in Nazareth Borough Council chambers, LV Congressman Charlie Dent explained his opposition to the 1,200 page cap and trade bill recently adopted by the House, which will target heavy carbon footprints with energy taxes. "We will lose 66,000 jobs in Pennsylvania. Pennsylvania is the third largest coal consumer and the fourth largest coal producer. We will be disproportionately impacted."
Dent's concerns are shared by the Pennsylvania Utility Commission, which warned Congress that "if the Waxman-Markey bill were to pass, Pennsylvania is looking at a bleak scenario by 2020: a net loss of as many as 60,000 jobs, a sizeable hike in the electric bills of residential customers, an increase in natural gas prices, and a significant downward pressure on our gross state product. ... The cost estimates are staggering."
But what really seemed to bother people, Democrats and Republicans alike, was the way the legislation was just jammed down everyone's throats. A 300 page amendment added at 3 AM on the day of passage was obviously designed to buy off special interest groups, but makes the legislation a confusing mess.
Congressman Dent: "Sunshine is a great disenfectant. ... You get these massive bills like the stimulus package ... What I find that is difficult is you need time to digest this stuff. You absilutely need time to digest this stuff. When people say there's an artificial deadline on health care by whatever the date is - it was supposed to be the 10th of July and now it's October 1st or whatever - these are artificial deadlines that are driven by political calendars and not necessarily driven by the substance of the issue.
"I'm not sure what one can do other than demand we takea bit more time to deliberate on some of these issues. Again, you get a 300 page amendment thrown in in the middle of the night. And that was the stuff that dealt with the agricultural mitigation attempts - to get some votes from members that represent large agricultural areas and districts - that's what was done. Again, I don't know that anyone understands the impacts. I wish I had a better answer for you than that.
"But sunshine, sunshine is a disinfectant. When people get a chance - part of the reason why these bills get moved through as quickly as they do is to avoid that. Cynically, that's what the purpose was because once you leave this out there for a week or two and let people look at it, all of a sudden they look at page 82, line 6 and say 'What deoes this mean?' All of a sudden, questions are raised and that slows the train down."
Blogger's Note: A youtube video from the town hall will be posted later today.
32 comments:
I agree with him. But I used to hear these complaints a LOT during the Bush Administration like when the Patriot Act was zipped through. Was Dent vocal then?
The patriot Act was adopted in '01, several years before Dent was elected to Congress. But I get your point and he probably could have been more vocal.
The patriot Act was adopted in '01, several years before Dent was elected to Congress. But I get your point and he probably could have been more vocal.
Let's not forget all the years the Congressman sat by and let the leaders of the State House, State Senate, and Congress do just this sort of thing when he was a member of the majority. It is very hypocritical to now complaign about it after he just sat on the sidelines and watched it happen when he agreed with the bill or was ordered to agree with the bill.
What's your evidence that he sat on the sidelines? One of the things I will always remember reading about Dent was when he served in the PA House. Apparently, he caught the fact that some part of a bill duplicated something that was law already and pointed it out to the Speaker of the House. Teh reason I remember the incident was because the paper quoted the Speaker as saying that Dent showed that there was at least one person in the House who bothered to read the bills. It always stuck with me that one, the Speaker of the House would say that, two, that Charlie Dent caught that mix-up and three, that the paper would give him an "attaboy."
I think you're offbase with your comment. I think Dent's criticism of the process is on target and I don't think he has a track record that you can point to that says he doesn't try to thorough go over what he votes on.
If the Republicans want to learn a lesson in brute force governance they should be taking notes now on how the Democrats do things. When in control the Republicans allowed Democrats in on legislation formulation and nothing, even the Patriot Act was rushed through without ample time for vigorous debate. If memory serves me correct the Democrats couldn’t wait to sign the initial Patriot Act Bill, and then complained about it to score political points thereafter until they voted twice again to renew the legislation. Honorable?
We are living the 1970’s again, a hard rain is going to fall, better get ready.
Scott Armstrong
Well said, Scott.
The Patriot Act was enacted quickly because thousands of Americans had just lost there lives. It came to life in response to an actual, indisputable attack on the American people. And it was passed by a much more politically balanced Congress.
What is the rush with to enact something that is nothing more than a politcal payoff, supported by the debatable scientific research of the left, when all Dent is suggesting is that we take a good look at it first?
The comparison is utter nonsense.
Charlie who?
I have said before I am a REGISTERED DEMOCRAT (look it up) and I am UTTERLY ASHAMED.
I have NEVER seen POLITICIANS behave like Obama, Reid, Pelosi and the gang.
DON'T READ BILLS --- DON'T EVEN WRITE THEM, APPARENTLY, NOW
NEVER - I am 40!!!
Massive power grab - PERIOD.
Greatest Scam on Earth (Cap and Tax) --- PERIOD
Freak out all you like Kool-Aiders.
Just GET YOUR TAX MONEY together(or come up with an acceptable lame excuse when you are appointed Treasury Secretary or to some other High Cabinet position).
OBAMA KNOWS HE HAS LIMITED TIME TO COMPLETE HIS SOFT COUP. HE KNOWS HE HAS LIMITED POLITICAL CAPITAL.
HE KNOWS HE HAS PEAKED
But, nothing matters anymore
No brainer --- nationalize illegals
They will elect OBAMA to whatever he wants for LIFE
Kannst du Deutsche sprechen?
MERKEL WANTS TO LOWER TAXES IN GERMANY
Germans learned from the East German and Soviet Union experience.
America wants a welfare check and cable TV with a voucher provided by Obama himself in the Stimulus, or what that the Porkulus Spending Bill, or was that the Omnibus bill.
Obama spends so many trillions, it is hard to keep track (4 times what Bush spent, Kool-Aiders)
I won't be back to argue with you Democrat losers today. YOU MAKE ME VOMIT.
Enjoy YOUR TAX HIKES :)
You EARNED them
Scott,
I would have thought someone as intelligent as you would have woken up from the lesser of two evils.
How about this, two evils.
The US Congress hasn't written a decent piece of legislation in almost 20 years.
cost pa 60k jobs... but he refuses to say how many jobs will be created in a green economy. selective information sharing perhaps.
this bill has been debated in the house and the senate for the better part of a decade with people like John McCain being part of the debate and even sponsoring, with Joe Leiberman, cap and trade proposals. If John McCain (a champion of good gov't efforts) casts a vote in favor of this legislation, Dent's sunshine argument will ring very hollow.
This vote is a continued trend in Dent's lock step support of the US Chamber of Commerce. It was great to see thousands of small business owners across the country, with many here in the LV, step up and say that the Chamber no longer speaks for the interest of Main Street but rather their greedy contributors. It would be great of Dent did the same.
When Dent spoke yesterday, I assumed he was talking abut a net loss of 66,000 jobs in Pa. alone. Maybe I'm mistaken. maybe not.
I'm all for incentivizing the use of alternative energy, but not at the expense of imposing draconian penalties that will give utlities an excuse to raise rates even higher, especially at a time when people are struggling to stay in their homes. This is madness and I doubt this bill will ever make it thru the Senate.
McCain, who does espouse cap and trade as a concept, has already ripped the legislation passed by the House as a "giant government slush fund" to pay for other Obama projects.
This morning for the second time the past few weeks I have read an article referencing a study done by an economics professor in Spain. Spain has been held up by "green job" advocates as an example of what we can do. According to this study, "for every green job created by the Spanish government in recent years, an average of 2.2 other jobs were destroyed to make way for it. Furthermore, green jobs tend not to be permanent..only 1 in 10 green jobs exists for a significant period of time." Britain, also, if finding that "green collar jobs" are not living up to the hype and promise.
The Crazy ass righties are clucking, like the fighting cocks they are!
Charlie Dent the "independent" Repiglican who only ever does what he is instructed to do by Fox News.
the Democratic Party knows Kerry and Obama won the valley. I think Chuck's time is about to end.
And what "evidence" does the "Congressman" (aka Far Right wing puppet) give for the job loss number? It looks like another bullshit figure that the mindless right on cable and radio give.
Don't all of us who have a IQ over 12 already know if they don't give a reference then the number was just pulled from their asses?
The Democratic party is a joke, they keep pandering to the far right wing, anti-americans. The Republican party is a bigger joke, because their biggest base these days are the dumbest people that are left. Better known as "SUCKERS"!
PALIN IN 2013!!!
Chase,
As someone who completely agrees with incentivizing alternative energy sources, this legislation is a disaster that will end up huirting people who curerently are having trouble making ends meet. When utilities skyrocket else, a lot of people are going to see their power shut off. In addition, rising energy costs will force manufacturers to increase prices. This legislation is a disaster. I could care less how the Chamber of Commerce feels, but I can see a direct impact on low-income Pennsylvanians.
You demand to know Dent's source for the 66,000 lost jobs. Well, I can answer for at least 60,000 of these lost jobs. It's the Pa PUC, many of whose members were appointed by Rendell.
For every "green job" created, there will be a net loss of 2.2 manufacturing jobs. If you google the American Energy Alliance, a Washington, D.C.-based nonprofit advocacy group, you will see the projection of a 66,000 net Pa. job loss by 2020.
A majority of Pa.'s congressional delegation voted against this ill-considered legislation.
Speaking of low IQs, you should be more careful. If your IQ were anywhere near what you think it is, you could have read abouit the PUC teestimony in the body of this post. Morover, disparaging an entire politcal party, as you've done, is further evidence of low intellect.
The cap and trade bill, should it ever become law, will just deepen our recession.
Why doesn't Dent's office give a #$%^ about things that matter to EVERONE in PA like healthcare? I just called his office today because I tried to get health insurance on my own as a contractor, and due to a pre-existing MINOR condition which out of pocket costs less a normal premium, he wouldn't sell me insurance. He told me "by law he couldn't sell me insurance because I had a pre-existing condition" and that "insurance companies are there to make a profit and I need to understand that and they can't make money with people with pre-existing conditions." I called Dent's office to complain and all they did was give me a number to contact for help without telling me what the number was. I called the number and it was the County Welfare office! I make $100,000 a year! All I want is insurance! Doesn't Dent prep his interns on what's happening in PA? I called Specter's office and they were very helpful, giving me personal emails I could send my complaint and promising if I got enough info they would contact the State Insurance Office where they would report any unprofessionalism, also giving me as much advice as they could, as well as going into detail about Specter's stance on healthcare. I guess Dent's people are too busy in the mines.
Bernie, AEA is a 501c4 that advocates against gov't regulation. It is funded heavily by the energy industry. May not want to cite them. The same can be said about the PUC, which for years has been accused of being a puppet for energy companies.
I'm not sure what to make of the bill, but I know I'm not going to listen to the organizations you just cited b/c they are too closely aligned with the forces that have prevent alternative energy to find its footing in our economy.
Anon 1:56, I take the information with a grain of salt, but I take it. Everyone has a bias. Some are better at hiding it than others. I find this information to be credible bc in Spain, where similar legislation was adopted, the result was catastrophic job loss.
Frustrated,
The topic here is cap and trade, not health care reform. That was discussed at yesterday's town hall and I will write it up. Please feel free to join in the discussion there.
I'm sorry to hear Dent's office was unresponsive and am frankly surprised.
Chase -
Do you mean like Obama's "Created or saved jobs" number?
Someone like you, with an IQ over 12? Well 13 doesn't cut it here, pal.
I want "Chase" to be our Supreme Leader! He's not afraid to yell it like it is!
Chase and similar paint-by-numbers political thinkers forget that the center controls elections and is very fickle.
Just four and half years ago, Bush won a stunning re-election and enjoyed historic gains in the House and Senate; just four and half years ago. Things can change in a hurry.
If the left overplays its hand, it will alienate the center that voted for a change from the extreme right, but likely doesn't want the extreme left either.
Obama's approval ratings have steadily eroded because he's losing the center. The left will always love him and the right will always hate him. Perhaps Dent's on to something.
Immigrants to Canada are eligible for health insurance no matter what previous condition as long as they are under 55, and Australia is 45. I know this because I know two families from PA leaving the U.S. because of this situation. Dent and Specter should just give information about how to emigrate out of here when people complain about health insurance.
5:02, in the countries you mentioned, death is the most cost-effective prescription. You cite a couple of people leaving the US. Fine. Go to Plattsburgh NY and watch busloads of French Canadians arriving to pay cash for what they can't get or can't wait for in Canada. The old factory outlet strips have been replaced by huge medical campuses, catering to cash-wielding Canadians who issue their verdict on socialized medicine every day - in cash.
The ones who can afford it. In poll after poll of Industrialized countries. None, not one has ever come close to wanting to dump their healthcare system for America's.
Do they have gripes, you bet. But so do you. They would rather have a bureaucrat who they can complain to an elected official about, than an insurance company guy who is payed to find you ineligible and doesn't give a crap about you or your problem.
Buy a clue, next.
" They would rather have a bureaucrat who they can complain to an elected official about, than an insurance company guy who is payed to find you ineligible and doesn't give a crap about you or your problem."
This sort of thinking is profoundly frightening.
Scott Armstrong
Right!
You can change insurance companies, no one can change bureacracy.
Canadian health care doesn't survive without price controls made possible by having a very wealthy neighbor to the south. It's the same with the vaunted Canadian military (insert uproarious laughter here). It's nice to have a rich uncle nearby.
If Dent's behind it I know It's not going anywhere. We need man in off ice who mean what they say.
I guess other people write whatever Congresspersons say because on C-Span (and like in this video) they always read their remarks like they're seeing it for the first time, rarely looking up from the paper and with a furious concentration to not make a mistake.
Frustrated:
Did you ever tell the person you talked with at Dent's office how much you make before he/she referred you to the welfare office? Just wondering.
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