"If you haven't been to a service at Shiloh, everyone should go."Council member Peg Ferraro, at last night's meeting, was talking about Easton's Shiloh Baptist Church. This large church offers a wide array of community services, and also happens to be the base for Easton's black vote.
Last night, Shiloh's Andrea McKewen Henderson told council members about a self-supporting halfway house they propose for Canal Street. The idea is to send released prisoners there for a "spiritually based recovery."
Newly appointed council member Joe Capozzolo voting against the idea, but other council members agreed to contribute the final $50 thousand to an estimated $295 thousand renovation for this supposed "self-supporting" project. The Northampton County Bulldog, Ron Angle, actually hugged one of the Baptist ministers who made this presentation.
Hallelujah! Praise Jeebus!
But since when does public money fund "spiritually based" programs? No mention was made of any secular alternatives. Doesn't this tear down the wall separating the state from religion?
34 comments:
Did Angle look to see if any color rubbed off on him. He did that once, I remember the man who told the story.
KEN BROWN! Shiloh's boy on council. I bet it helped to grease the wheels of government for Shiloh.
Most of us do not fear that such arrangements will begin the slippery slope toward establishment of religion. At minimum, there are voices like this blog to be ever vigilant against the sinister leanings of the likes of Shiloh, who operate in front of everyone and are a model for public private partnership. This flies in the face of those who search tirelessly for The Constitution's non-existent protection FROM religion. Couldn't this program better serve its intended beneficiaries if administered by a bloated government bureaucracy? Or has a governmental body actually staggered into common sense here? An affirmative answer to either question is frightening.
As much as I beleive in the seperaton of church and state, it is a true fact that faith based initiatives operate far more efficiently than do the government ones. They use more volunteers than the government programs and in return they plow those savings back into the program.
I guess it depends on how you look at things...do you want the job done by the community or by a brand new phalanx of government workers,
The Allentown Rescue Mission, New Bethany Ministries are both religious shelters that I know of off the top of my head that receive public funding. Religious-based community organizations that provide serivces like these are not exempt from public funding at municipal, county, or federal levels.
Congrats Andrea! The dream becomes reality and the people of the county are better off because of your faith in this project! In the long run it is economically better to use faith based initiatives as they are more cost effective and they are run by people who believe in the concept. I'd rather spend on this than another prison warehouse. I salute council except for our stupid mayor from Bangor for doing the right thing!
I just caught this very discussion on a cable news channel yesterday. Apparently a lot of the social programs in H.R. 1 (Stimulus Package) will fund these as well. This is all way above my head, but the way I understand it. If religious institutions create a separate component and file the proper paperwork they are able to side-step the Church/State thing.
This all tied into the screaming about ACORN indirect funding by doing the same under separate programs ACORN does away from electioneering drives. Of course if ACORN doesn't spend money on their federally funded operations, it frees up cash for this effort. I'm not favoring or disfavoring the ACORN objections, just explaining how it's done.
Bernie you do know that there is no law/contract in the world a good legal team can't wiggle through. OJ comes to mind. So with all this Church & State stuff, they simply "OJ it"!
:)
Glenn
LOLV,
The difference between Allentown Rescue and this proposal is that Allentown Rescue will offer secular alternatives to religious indoctrination. I did not hear that mentioned by Shiloh. That is my concern.
I actually toured A-town Rescuew a few weeks ago and am writing up a post about that place. It is great, but Gary does not force religion on anyone. Additionally, very little of the Rescue Mission's funding is public.
I am very disturned that public $ are going to a specific church for a program that includes a "spiritually based recovery," and not one member of Council even questions it. You cannot constitutionally force religion on people.
I have no objection to the halfway house or to Shiloh, so please do not misconstrue my concern here.
I support the public funding of Shiloh as another tool in the judicial tool bag to help/support transitioning felons into society.
BO, how come you didn’t comment on your buddy Ron Angle’s “let them eat cake” tirade last night regarding our judges help negotiate an agreement to allow folks stay in their foreclosed homes! The man is a slum-lord and benefits from folks being thrown out of their houses.
Do you support forcing religion on people, too?
Your comment concerning Angle is OT, and I have not written about that yet bc the discussion got all mixed up into Obama's plan, too. I disagree with Ron on that point and agree w/ McClure. I will be writing about it again.
Your personal snark at Angle is both untrue and unwarranted. Angle has probably helped more people than you could know. I'm sure he has had his share of bad tenants.
NO ONE..will be forced to go to Shiloh's transitional house! Strictly voluntary and they will screen the people they select. This is no forced religon situation..take it or go your own way!
Who did Angle hug? Pastor Davis? Who?
We should avoid any involvement spreading Shiloh's mission at all cost. Their whole subversive "love your neighbor" thing will surely set the Apocalypse in motion. The nation is doomed if the likes of Shiloh start receiving support for their brand of caring for their community. Be afraid.
These will be released men..not paroles! People who want to make a new start and hopefully never return to prison! This is a truly noble cause and a true benefit to the entire community.
"Who did Angle hug? Pastor Davis? Who?"
He hugged one of the presenters, whose name escapes me.
"NO ONE..will be forced to go to Shiloh's transitional house! Strictly voluntary "
On the contrary, theis COULB be discriminatory. A person who has no beliefs should not be denied the option of a halfway house in favor of those who have some sort of religious sentiment, whether real or feigned.
This isn't the only option! There are other houses and treatment regimens out there! Again..no one has to go here unless they want to! Sex offenders are excluded by municipal regulations..should they be allowed? Are we discriminating against them? Take that up with Easton council!
I think if a similar business plan was presented by a non-religious group, they should receive the same package. In this situation I think the more places/opportunities to "recover" the better. Ultimately in the US, unless you're in gitmo, I don't think anybody can be forced into faith.
Who at Gitmo is being forced into faith? Prisoners are provided Korans, prayer rugs, announcement of prayer times, ritual washing stations, halal foods, etc. Are our soldiers being forced into Islam?
"Sex offenders are excluded by municipal regulations..should they be allowed? Are we discriminating against them?"
Of course we discriminate against sex offenders, and should. There is a compelling state interest at stake to justify the discrimination. What compelling state interest exists to promote the Baptist religion over others? Also, Dave, the claim that this is voluntary is bullshit. It is a false choice.
You cannot constitutionally fund a religious group.
I think the halfway house idea is great. But to comply with this little thing called the constitution, it cannot force religion on its residents. They must have a secular option, just as is the cased at thee rescue mission.
Because they only spent about a minute talking abouit the religious aspect, I must say I am not entirely sure whether religion will be forced down the throats of residents, but that was my impression.
Of all the things that these elected officals waste tax payer money on..you complain about this issue? What don't you get? Arguing for the sake of arguing? They sign an agreement to stay a minimum of six months and then can go wherever they want. No chains..no waterboarding! Get over it..move on to the next crisis!
"Of all the things that these elected officals waste tax payer money on..you complain about this issue? "
What I care about is separation of church and state. What was described is uconstitutional. Forcinfg religion on anyone, even a prisoner, is wrong. Claimin a prisoner need not opt for a half way house means inmates are being presented w/ a false choice.
If Shilh agrees to a secular alternative to "spiritual" rehabilitation, I have no problem. Otherwise, I do.
I hear the thinking was the the courts were going to appoint Seyfriend and nobody wanted Seyfried, so they will have to deal with Angle's puppet for a year.
Maybe Angle is the puppet. It looks like Capozzolo holds the most power now.
He's No puppet. Angle made only one motion during the meeting, it passed. But Capozzolo voted against it. You better look up the definition for "puppet".
If I remember right Bernie, didn't Shiloh Baptist Church get another earmark from County Council a couple of years ago (I think during the Reibman administration) and when the Controller's Office audited them, everything financially given for the audit from the church was in disarray? They couldn't back up their financial paperwork, from what I can recall. This is deja-vouz, all over again. Will Shiloh Baptist Church be able to prove where the money is going this time? Or will this be thrown under the rug again? This scares the hell out of me.
Shiloh is a great church but they are lousy administrators. They are good people, but can't do something like this without majhor opversight, and only after making certain that constitutional concerns are satisfied.
Angle controls Capozola and whatever good reputation he has is or will be gone.
Yeah I hear you on Seyfried. He was a pain in the arse in Reibmans Administration. He was the Hallwalker. People would feed him info they wanted to get it out backchannel to the public cause the guy couldn't keep his yap shut. He spent his entire day wandering around the Courthouse.
We could use a county full of hallwalkers like Jerry, who did his job and was an independent thinker.
A number of insane anonymous personal attacks has been deleted. Be civil or face deletion.
So when will we get to read the Bible according to O'hare?
can't wait to get your ten commandments.
"thou shalt not admit thou are a pervert."
Which one is that, number six, after "Thou better not tell your Mommy about me".and before "Thou shalt not tell daddy either?"
I hear some guys have a fetish for little asians.
Unfortunately, the sick pervert who wrote this is too much of a coward to identify himself.
Yeah we only had the biggest ripoff of fees going on during Seyfrieds watch. We realize he is one of your mancrush boys but the guy was a zero as an administratior, a great gossip though.
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