I recorded the Jerry Springer show that erupted during last week's Northampton County Council meeting, and presented it to you earlier this week. The Morning Call's Bill White loves it when government officials start mud wrestling, and actually wrote a column about this great debate, which he aptly calls "Your Mother Wears Army Boots."Believe it or not, Northampton County Council member Charles Dertinger, who actually ran for Congress against Charlie Dent just two years ago, managed to sink even lower last Thursday. Most of us, who were still recovering from the childish antics that had gone on earlier, completely missed it. The tape recorder, however, caught it all.
Passenger rail activist Paul Marin had just finished his presentation, describing the rail study as a "low hanging fruit" that we should grab now. Because Angle had expressed reservations, Dertinger decided this was a great idea.
Dertinger: "Are you saying Charlie [Dent] couldn't . . . couldn't pull it off?"
Angle: "If only we had you there, Charlie, you could do it. You and Sam. You and Sam [Bennett]."
Dertinger: "Mr. Angle, please, I have the floor. Um, speaking of low hanging fruit."
In the middle of a public hearing, attended by numerous passenger rail proponents, Council member Charles Dertinger casually tossed a homophobic slur at Angle. In an attempt to disparage Angle, Dertinger actually diminishes himself and simultaneously sends a message of intolerance to the gay community.
If you'd like to hear this brief audio yourself, click here. Look for the 64Kbps M3U (Lo-Fi) at the left sidebar and you can stream the audio.
63 comments:
That guy's gotta go. His priorities aren't with the county. He's immature and cares more about his grudges than the good of the county.
AJ, We will have an opportunity to dump Dertinger next year.
For now, I think a public apology is deserved. The people didn't vote Dertinger to insult others, including citizens.
Bernie,
Charles would never insult gay people by comparing Ron Angle to us.
As you know, I am good friends with Dertinger, I helped his campaign and can be a fairly good judge of his character; and especially in how he relates to gay people.
Moreover, if you take the time to listen to the audio recording of the meeting, you will hear that Dertinger begins making his low hanging fruit joke BEFORE Angle interrupts him. After he admonishes Angle for grabbing the floor he continues with the joke.
The lame low-hanging fruit referred to the opportunity Dertinger had to take a jab at Charlie Dent's inability to support the rail system that Mr. Marin would like to study.
Rob,
Listen to the audio again, my friend. Dertinger's comment came after Angle's comment about Dent and Bennett. He was calling Angle a "low hanging fruit," i.e. gay. He used language that insults the gay community. It was missed because it came on the heel of so many vile statements made earlier that night. He was irritated because Angle interrupted him when he was trying to take a shot at Dent.
Rob, Dertinger owes you an apology. He owes the gay community an apology. He owes the people of Northampton County an apology. A public servant should not make that kind of reckless statement during a public meeting.
First thing I thought was he was "well endowed" with that.
Maybe thats making Lemonade out of lemons.
I've heard that, too, but it makes no sense in the context of wehat Dertinger was saying.
Whatever Dertinger may have meant, his remark is entirely inappropriate and demonstrates why voters rejected him when he ran for Congress.
He owes the public an apology.
I have listened again and it is clear that Charles continued his joke while Angle was interrupting. Dertinger then repeated it after Ron quieted down. Maybe you need better speakers on your computer.
Charles doesn't owe me or the gay community an apology. Bernie, I could venture to say that your hateful stereotyping is much more harmful that anything Dertinger has said.
Hopkins is clearly being obtuse. Dumbinger clearly tries to make his "low-hanging fruit" joke after the Angle interruption.
Anon 12:03,
Calling him "Dumbinger" makes you just as immature as he is.
Rob Hopkins,
Dertinger most definitely owes the public an apology. His behavior is not at all professional and his "fruit" reference is unacceptable.
Rob,
I was at the meeting that night. Dertinger's taunt most definitely was intended as a shot at Angle. It was a homophobic rant as well. Because so much else went on that evening, it had nearly slipped my mind until I listened to the tape again. Dertinger clearly called Angle a " low hanging fruit."
Now, you were Dertinger's campaign manager, and I suspect you know him a little better than I. But that does not change the fact that Dertinger made a highly inappropriate and insensitive remark during a public meeting.
Had the situation been reversed and Angle was the person making that statement, there is little doubt in my mind that people would be calling for his head right now. They'd probably get it, too.
As far as my "hateful stereotyping" is concerned, I stereotyped nothing. I reported what was said, word for word. I included an audio of what was said, word for word. Deringer makes the remark that is not just offensive to thje gay community, but to all people who believe in tolerance.
Frankly, this is more important than Dertinger's earlier personal attack against me. He's obviously a mean-spirited person.
You appear very much like a former campaign manager trying to do some damage control. Instead of trying to explain away what can't be explained away, Dertinger should do the right thing and apologize. He needs to concentrate less on the personalities around him and more on governing.
I don't think the phrase "low hanging fruit" means what you think it means.
I think Dertinger was using it incorrectly trying to disparage Angle's intelligence not as some kind of gay slur.
I could be wrong. I have no idea Angle is gay.
Homophobic people routinely refer to heterosecxuals they do not consider manly enough as gay. Earlier that night, Angle refused to fight Dertinger. Hence, he is a fruit.
Dertinger made a highly inappropriate and insensitive remark during a public meeting.
Absolutely. But why not point out the Angle instigated the whole affair? Does Angle need to make these snarky remarks during a public meeting?
Homophobic people routinely refer to heterosecxuals they do not consider manly enough as gay. Earlier that night, Angle refused to fight Dertinger. Hence, he is a fruit.
You have interesting inventions in your mind.
I think you ought to seek out the meaning of "low hanging fruit."
I am aware that low hanging fruit has two meanings, but as I previously explained, one of those meanings (well-endowed) makes no sense in the context in which the remarks were delivered. Dertinger''s intent, and it is clear, is to call Angle a queer, not quite the man he is.
"But why not point out the Angle instigated the whole affair?"
Because it's not true. Earlier that evening, I had dared criticize council for denying basic due process to a county worker. I quoted some of the remarks Deringer had made.
Dertinger responded with a personal attack on me, and when Angle rose to my defense, he weas personally attacked as well.
Angle instigated nothing.
Or it could refer to the age old use of the term which most certainly would apply to Angle. Crazy, Nutz as in he's a real fruitcake. That terminology is hardly homophobic and has been around for decades.
I am amzed at how 'shocked and appalled' you all are. Yet you defend and brush off the racist, muslim bashing rhetoric of the McCain/Palin camp. When you stir the crowd to shout, "he's a terrorist" and "kill him" you are pushing all the wrong buttons and hopefully this low vile campaign will be met by a resounding defeat on election day.
Stop the alligator tears over the most oblique reference you can find due to your hatred of Dertinger and love of Angle. All the while you make excuses for the hateful McHate campaign.
Excuse me?
It is inappropriate and insensitive for an elected official, in a public meeting, to refer to another person as a fruit. Period.
I do not defend and condemn hate speech. What was going on at that McCain Palin rally was distorted to sound like hate speech. Most of the jeering was good natured, and as I pointed out, there were as many kooky statements from the left asd there were from the right.
Had some of those statements been made by an elected official during a publi meeting, I would quickly condemn them.
What Dertinger said was wrong. But is he to be excused bc he has a D beind his name? I think not.
Bernie,
I stepped up not because I was Dertinger's campaign manager, but because you are characterizing something inappropriately and trying to stir emotions in your favor. Your efforts undermine the need to address legitimate hateful speech. As a proud member of the gay community, I can tell you that Charles would never make the slur you are accusing him of. The context you are portraying his remarks in are incorrect, and a careful listen to the audio proves it. (You can hear Dertinger say "low ha..." while Angle is still interupting)
Further, I point out your Village People illustration in no way shows any compassion or understanding of the gay community. It only serves to perpetuate a stereotype (and a dated one at that).
If I wanted to somehow advocate for a candidate, I would have done so anonymously, like everyone else does. But this comes down to an issue I have spent my entire adult life advocating for, I will not allow you to ride your attack on Dertinger on the backs of the gay community.
I am aware that low hanging fruit has two meanings, but as I previously explained, one of those meanings (well-endowed) makes no sense in the context in which the remarks were delivered. Dertinger''s intent, and it is clear, is to call Angle a queer, not quite the man he is.
So your two meanings are "well endowed" or "queer?"
Try this.
Angle: "If only we had you there, Charlie, you could do it. You and Sam. You and Sam [Bennett]."
Pretty demeaning and dismissive statement, I'd say. I'd call it instigation.
Wasn't it this blogger who described artists as "foo foo?"
Rob,
I'm afraid that you and I completely disagree. In a post about a homophobic remark, a picture of The Village People is entirely appropriate bc it adds a little humor to a sensitive topic.
There is no doubt in my mind that Dertinger's intentions were exactly as I reported them. In fact, I have them word for word and have the audio as well. I can also tell you that, for many of us in the audience, that is how those remarks were perceived.
You can talk about inflections here and what came where, but the simple truth is that Dertinger called Angle a fruit. He did so as an elected official and during a public meeting. His remark was inappropriate, insensitive and homophobic.
I know you well enough to believe you when you tell me what motivates you. Although you are heavily connected to local Dems and acted as Dertinger's campaign manager, I actually believe you are speaking from your heart.
Do me the same courtesy.
As far as stirring things up are concerned, these are exactly the kinds of statments we should be condemning in local leaders, no matter what their party. I condemned Angle himself when he made inappropriate remarks, and I condemn Dertinger now.
"Wasn't it this blogger who described artists as "foo foo?"
No it is this blogger who refers to Villa's blog as "a foo-foo blog for the arts and artists and grants for artists and dinners about artists."
And it is.
"Angle: 'If only we had you there, Charlie, you could do it. You and Sam. You and Sam [Bennett].'
Pretty demeaning and dismissive statement, I'd say. I'd call it instigation."
Really? Immediately prior to that, Dertinger had attacked Dent. So who is instigating?
Bernie,
Why couldn't "low hanging fruit" refer to Dent's susceptibility in this and following elections? I don't think this is necessarily, nor even likely, a homophobic remark.
Then again, you were there and heard the context and I just heard a somewhat muddled audio clip. Still, I didn't hear anything undoubtedly homophobic.
Best,
Doug
Rob, you are wasting your time with Bernie O'Hate. He is only a caricature of what he once was.
He lives surreptitiously through the pain of those he wounds.
Bernie's mission is to disparage and insult anyone who dares stand up to him and his self righteousness.
That's why we have ordained him "Bernie of Nazareth, The Blogger of Christ."
Bernie would have all believe he is a victim of a great conspiracy, when the reality to any impartial observer with an IQ above 2 is that Bernie is the biggest purveyor and spreader of hate and disinformation on the Internet in the County.
Talk about lapdogs, This AJC person is one of the biggest yes people I've ever seen. Is it his sole purpose in life to be rthe first person to comment on Bern's posts and agree with him? Sure looks that way. What a bunck of nuts. definitely no fruit in this bowl.
I apologize, I think I insulted myself
I think the Post's premise is off base, unless Dertinger is gay, which would make this an obvious slur. The low-hanging fruit remark is a non-sexual insult, aimed at Angle's intelligence (recall the "throwed out" ridicule by Dertinger).
Anon 12:34 hits the mark, Bernie can dismiss Stabler hate speech as "pep rally" enthusiasm but makes a stretch to make this a homophobic issue. Not cool.
Bernie, instead of acknowledging that your interpretation could be wrong, you go on and on in its defense. An accusation like this should have more substance.
And don't retort that "I was there." It's still only your perception. Like there were 17,000 people in a 7,300 venue.
Finally, the humor you sprinkle throughout is appreciated. Don't apologize for the Village People.
Charles Dertringer is an honorable man. At meeting someone has to try to control assholes like Ron Angle. Of course you don't think Ron causes interruptions that take away from the serious work of government getting done. You also don't think there is anything wrong with calling Obama a terrorist. I always new you were one of the greatest assholes of our time now you have made it perfectly clear.
"Is it his sole purpose in life to be rthe first person to comment on Bern's posts and agree with him?"
Red Hill Ranger,
I wouldn't be too sure about that. I would more like to question whether or not it is your sole purpose in live to anonymously attack Bernie O'Hare and anyone who agrees with him?
You can e-mail anytime if you have a problem with my comments and opinions. Unlike you, I don't hide behind a computer. Otherwise, enjoy your childish rants and your vendetta.
Low hanging fruit down not mean gay. It means easy pickins, ha.
AJ - I think you meant to say that you don't hide behind a computer... on THIS site.
AJC, you are just a PDW wannabee. Call me childish? And I have a vendetta? I'm not the one at Bern's heel, barking and begging for attention. What a good little lapdog you re. Does Bernie tell you what to type, or do you think up the oroginal thoughts all by yourself? I bet it is the former.
I want to see what pitiful excuses and rants you two losers write after november 4th to explain the election results.
And how will you explain what the voters do next year? all you bloggers have such inflated opinions of your importance, as if what you say to the 5 of you who read and comment on each other's sites really makes a difference.
I guess all that matters is that you all feel important at the end of the day. I'm an East Allentown native who lives outside of Boyertown now, and I voted for Dertinger two years ago. There's no apology due to you from Dertinger. If anyone should apologize, you should, for being such a mindless automoton to Bern. What you really need is to get the rocks out of your head.
You cheerleader while Bern drools over Palin, a mindless twit if there evere was one. At the same time assailing Sam Bennett's idiocy at every turn. I call that double standard, but you are entitled to apply your own criteria as you see fit.
The idea of you in a classroom as a teacher is laughable. You will be fine if the KKK opens up their own private schools. I'm sure they would hire you. You follow their doctrine, Intolerance of opposing views.
No, people didn't vote Dertinger to insult others, but if Angle does it, it is absolutely Okay, because that is EXACTLY why they voted for him.
Bernie
You are completely in the tank for angle, perhaps if he didn't interupt like a child we could hear what dertinger had to say and then make a judgement but angle can't seem to control himself when others have the floor evidence in your 2 attacks on dertinger.
I aggree with annon 8:33 low hanging fruit has always been easy pickens.
But really who gives a shit if dertinger insults or make a joke about dent or angle.
Your hate of dertinger is making you obsessed with him and I for one could care less.
Doug,
Yeah, I was there the entire three and one half hours. Detinger's comment was clearly intended as a shot at Angle.
Now some claim that Dertinger was merely pointing out that Abgle is not very bright. Whatever his intention, an elected official who makes a remark like that, during a public meeting, is out of line.
Earlier in the evening, during the fireworks, Dertinger was on his feet, clearly wanted to fight Angle, and said something about stepping out. Angle refused to take him up on it.
After Marin's speech, Dertinger didn't like it that Angle interrupted him while he was trying to blame Dent for this lack of money for a rail study. That's when the "speaking of low hanging fruit" comment was made.
It was an inappropriate, insensitive and homophobic attack. Dertinger was still smarting from the fight earlier that evening. It was directed at Angle bc Angle wouldn't get up and fight him. He used terminology often associated with homophobic attacks.
Whatever his intention, he should be called out for his snark.
"But really who gives a shit if dertinger insults or make a joke about dent or angle."
I do, if it is made during a public meeting. It is a mean-spirtited and unnecessary attach that diminishes Northampton County Council. This is precisely the kind of statement that is condemned, rightly, when it comes from Angle's mouth. It needs to be condemned when it comes from Dertinger's mouth, too.
"I think the Post's premise is off base, unless Dertinger is gay, which would make this an obvious slur. The low-hanging fruit remark is a non-sexual insult, aimed at Angle's intelligence (recall the "throwed out" ridicule by Dertinger).
Anon 12:34 hits the mark, Bernie can dismiss Stabler hate speech as "pep rally" enthusiasm but makes a stretch to make this a homophobic issue."
Let's assume you are correct and that Dertinger, instead of calling Angle queer, was simply calling him an idiot. It's still wrong. It's still inappropriate conduct from an elected official during a public meeting. It is precisely the same conduct that people rightly criticize in Angle.
The comment is susceptible to different interpretations. And as the person who was actually sitting there, my interpretation is that Dertinger was attacking Angle's masculinity.
This former congressional candidate is a petty person who was rightly rejected by the voters and will have to answer for his conduct.
What is making some people very upset is the fact that I have him on tape, making a very stupid statement.
AJ, "Red Hill Ranger" gives himself a courageous name but is scared shitless to identify himself and take responsibility for his words. Most of his comments are just personal attacks.
"Charles Dertringer is an honorable man. At meeting someone has to try to control assholes like Ron Angle. Of course you don't think Ron causes interruptions that take away from the serious work of government getting done. You also don't think there is anything wrong with calling Obama a terrorist. I always new you were one of the greatest assholes of our time now you have made it perfectly clear."
I'd condemn any person who called Obama a terrorist. I may even vote for the guy, but won't vote for him simply bc Rolling Stoner did a hatchet job on McCain or simply bc he is viewed with religious fervor by some.
ASs far as controlling Angle is concerned, actually someone needs to control Dertinger. That job normally falls to council President, who really blew it last week.
Disparaging or promoting either Rep. Dent or Ms. Bennett at a Council meeting is inappropriate, period. Both Mr. Dertinger and Mr. Angle were wrong to slam these candidates at a public meeting.
The fact that no one called them on this is also sad.
"This former congressional candidate is a petty person who was rightly rejected by the voters and will have to answer for his conduct."
What's amazing is the Dent was scared in that election and the results were closer than anybody imagined. So, even though Dertinger was outspent, Dent didn't do a good job of beating a "petty person."
Red Hill Ranger,
As I said, you're more than welcome to e-mail me with your complaints. I actually encourage you to because your childish arguments here are difficult to understand. The fact that you only resort to anonymous attacks shows that you have no educated point of view. I won't respond to your ridiculous attacks here anymore.
Pete,
You're absolutely right. Those were both low-blows, and as much as I dislike Sam Bennett, there was no need to drag either candidate into this. Both Angle and Dertinger were out of line, but I see it differently than most of the one-sided commenters here.
Dertinger needs to start acting professional and chill with the cheap shots. Angle needs to stop acting out in defense of Dertinger and just let him drown on his own. I like how Angle stands up for the little guy, but there are more professional ways to do so.
On top of all that, someone needs to get control of the Council. High school students are better organized than NorCo.
*Correction...
"defense of Dertinger" was meant mean acting out to defend himself and others against Dertinger.
Can't stand Dertinger and have taught my kids not to hate any human being, but think some are being overly sensitive here with the slur discussion. Any sexual reference in the course of public business is unacceptable, however. I didn't need any more convincing that this waste of space, insider-wannabe needs to go.
Like Rob Hopkins, I am gay. I cringe whenever anyone calls another person a fruit. That may not have been Dertinger's intention, but that's the way it sounds to me. It gets too easy from fruit to escalate to something else.
The only point I'd like to make regarding this topic is that NASCAR got a freakin race track in the Wall Street bail out. A freakin race track. I do not understand why we cannot get moving on light rail to the LV. All indications suggest there is a need.
Now maybe if they build the race track here in the LV, then we could justify light rail to get spectators from NJ and NY to the race track. It does not seem like we have our priorities straight.
Maybe Alaska could give back that money they received for the bridge so there would be funding for the light rail effort.
Too busy figuring out how to bail out auto companies to fund public transportation.
Bernie, why do you hate Charles ?
I don't hate Charlie. I never claimed that he "crawls home to his computer." But after watching him for three years on council, I'm prepared to make a few observations. he is pompous, arrogant, a bully, unduly partisan, not particularly bright, and worst of all, lazy. He is, as The Morning Call aptly named him over two years ago, a faithless politician.
Other than that, he's a nice guy.
Is he "foo foo?" Angle told him to go back to New York or something. The two of you don't like those darn New Yorkers.
I've stated what I dislike about him and it has nothing to do with NYC. But I agree w/ Ron. Dertinger should go back to NYC and run for something there. He certainly is not representing us.
What has Dertinger not done so that you conclude that he isn't "representing us" ? What would you like him to do ?
Anon 1:22,
I know that question is for Bernie, but I just wanted to say that Dertinger should be asking that himself instead of throwing insults around at Council meetings.
BERNIE IS UPSET BECAUSE HE IS A BUTT PIRATE!!
"What has Dertinger not done so that you conclude that he isn't 'representing us' ? What would you like him to do ?"
I doubt very much that these questions are posed with any sincerity, but I'll give the commenter the benefit of the doubt and answer anyway.
1) When finally elected to county council on his third try, Dertinger spit in the faces of the voters who chose him by almost immediately announcing his candidacy for Congress, establishing him, as The Morning Call put it, as a "faithless politician." The voters who elect a person to council are entitled to expect he will at least serve for a few years before trying to achieve higher office.
2) Dertinger is lazy. He has one of the worst attendance records for committee hearings of any member of council. That's where most of the work gets done.
3) Dertinger stands for back room politics as opposed to open government. To the extent he can get away with it, he attempts to arrive at decisions behind closed doors instead of deliberating in public.
4) Although he is one of the council members who agreed to spend an obscene $630k for ridiculous renovations to council chambers, not one of those renovations include livestreaming or webcasting for county council meetings.
5) Dertinger is too partisan, to the point of allowing Joe Long to make decisions for which the people elected him.
6) Dertinger, instead of being interested in the long range needs of the county, like the prison and county campus, is instead focused on gutter sniping.
7) Dertinger has undermined administration efforts to negotiate with the union, saying one thing to the unions and quite another in executive sessions over wages and benefits.
8) Dertinger is needlessly insulting to Stoffa cabinet members, so much so that most of them have no respect for him.
9) Dertinger has too high an opinion of his own abilities. When his own lawyer tells him something, he should listen. When a professional engineer tells him something, he needs to listen. He certainly should be independent, but often starts telling professionals how they should be doing their own jobs.
I could keep going, but I'll stop here.
Numbers 3,6,7,5 and 9 are your opinion. What proof do you have of #3?
Let's first establish that you do not challenge 1, 2, 4 & 8. If #3 is, as you say, an opinion, then why are you asking for proof? As far as #3 is concerned, I filed a lawsuit over council''s sunshine act violations, and agreed to setttle it only when council agreed to some remedial sunshine act training. The decision to lynch CSF, for example, was pre-arranged.
I was asked to state why Dertinger is a lousy public servant who deserves the boot. I've answered your question.
Are you people freaking kidding me?
This isn't about who called who what or who cut off whom.
This is about grown adults acting like they are in a pre-school fight over who took their graham cracker cookie and then called them a bad name!
Wake up people!
These people are government officials who govern our future. When the hell are they gonna start acting like it???
This petty in-fighting is destroying their ability to lead this county. No wonder we are the laughing stock of the state! And you people wonder why the county is in the shape that it is???
Is anyone in that room in control? From listening to the audiotape it sounded like a bunch of babies crying on the playground.
As far at the low hanging... maybe someone ought to take that comment to mean that no one in that room has a set to keep things controlled and conduct business as it should be conducted!
Bernie, sometimes you are right on with your blog, and I respect your opinion, but then with entries like this, with all due respect, all this does is spread the crap!
How about we stop with this childish banter and concentrate on the fact that county business isn't being handled.
Please people, put an end to the circus!
Anon 10:27,
You want to end the circus. That's hard to do when people don't know that's what council has become. Earlier this week, I gave you 5 minutes of audio from a council meeting. It certainly makes that point. So does this "low hanging fruit" shot. You claim I missed with this one, but I'm trying to lay it out there.
McHale got her croonies to make her Council President to set her up for an Executive run. It appears she has about as much leadership skips as a bunny rabbit.
The deal seems to be, make me President and I will let you run wild attacking anyone, saying anything.
She has zero control over this gang.
Anon 3:01,
I agree with you, but it's not just McHale. She lost control because they're all out of control. They're all to blame.
Dertinger is a hillbilly who chews gum during COuncil meetings. It's wild to watch. He looks like some kid waiting for his mom to pick him up from school.
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