Well, Sarah Palin may have soared, but John McCain bored. Watching his convention speech was about as entertaining as a few hours of root canal.You own views are appreciated, especially if they differ from mine. But remember, commenting is a privilege, not a right. I will delete personal attacks or off-topic remarks at my discretion. Comments that play into the tribalism that has consumed this nation will be declined. So will comments alleging voter fraud unless backed up by concrete evidence. If you attack someone personally, I expect you to identify yourself. I will delete criticisms of my comment policy, vulgarities, cut-and-paste jobs from other sources and any suggestion of violence towards anyone. I will also delete sweeping generalizations about mainstream parties or ideologies, i.e. identity politics. My decisions on these matters are made on a case by case basis, and may be affected by my mood that day, my access to the blog at the time the comment was made or other information that isn’t readily apparent.
The difference between McCain's speech and Palin. McCain was slow and stumbled on his delivery at times.
ReplyDeletePalin a former TV sportscaster can read scripts off a teleprompter rather smoothly.
And please spare me "she's like us" bull. Last I looked the average house mom not a former TV personality turned politician. The average mom dosn't have a nanny to help raise their family.
And the average husband in America has never belonged to a seperatist party!
Both Palin and McCain's speeches lacked plans. Just smack talk and clever one liners. Maybe Andrew Dice Clay has become a GOP speech writer.
"Whats the diffrence between a Hockey Mom and a pitbull? Lipstick...OHHHHH!!!!!"
I wonder how many "Hockey Moms" lived at Michael Vick's place.
Oh and aside from the Code Pink protesters. Anyone else see the first protester to get on camera holding a large black & white "McCain votes against vets" sign?
ReplyDeleteHe had a black Tee Shirt on as well that said "Iraqi Freedom Vets against the war".
Spike, thanks for reminding me that McCain and Palin have no plans. I keep forgetting the details Obama lays out in his revival meetings.
ReplyDeleteThe Banker
I watched a movie on the Turner Network to fall asleep. I knew the speech would be a "snoozer."
ReplyDeleteScott Armstrong
Bernie, I know you're completely caught up with Sarah Palin now, but I thought you might be interested to see that although her speech may have been well delivered - it was full of crap. Annenberg Public Policy School (nonpartisan) released their FactCheck report on their webslite, here's the link:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/gop_convention_spin_part_ii.html
(there are also links to the fact-check for other RNC speeches as well as to Obama's speech. All have some questionable claims)
The USA chants were initiated by the audience when the protesters stood up and began shouting. I have seen this done before, I just don't remember seeing anyone interupting any speeches by the dems.
ReplyDeleteGeeze, I guess spike doesn't like Palin. The attacks on her style, however, indicate a dearth of substantive criticism.
ReplyDeleteObama and Biden are the #1 and #3 liberals in the Senate. They are anti-military international apologists who expect to be elected while our country is at war.
Their "plans" are fairly straightforward. Call any household making over $100K, "rich," and tax the living shit out of them.
Tax "big (fill in the blank)" and assure the great unwashed that those business taxes won't simply and immediately be passed on to them. It's a brutal flat-tax trickle-down that will hurt lower incomes far worse than middles and uppers.
Nice plans. And not unexpected from two guys who've never earned a private dollar in their lives. They still think Alan Greenspan grows money on a tree in his backyard.
History and the unpopularity of the current president indicate that Ds should be winning this in a cake walk. They're not. There's a reason they've been rejected in seven of the last ten presidential elections.
#1 and #3 liberals.... interesting - are those numbers given out like jersey numbers for athletes? and who is number two, would it be Hillary Clinton?
ReplyDeleteLOLV, I'd have to be living in a vacuum NOT to be aware that there are some questionable claims in Palin's speech. The media began highlighting them within a few minutes of the speech's completion. As you point out, there is little difference between Palin's flaws and those in other speeches. But her errors are being magnified for some reason. Is it bc she does not belong to the penis club? Is it OK to be sexist so long as it is w/ a conservative?
ReplyDeleteAs we all know John McCain is not a great speaker. We remember Ronald Reagen and maybe John Kennedy. Speakers like that come along once or twice in one's lifetime. McCain, on the other hand has a tough time with the teleprompter and goes back a few words when interupted. The speakers at this convention, including the nominee, are well scrpted in this politially correct world. McCain had a job to do and specific points to make. He told the folks about himself and he gave us a list of things he wanted to do albeit not in depth.
ReplyDeleteWe are approximatley 2 months away from election day. This is the time to pay close attention to what is being said. McCain, correctly, criticized his own party. Conservatives wonder when did the Republicans become the New Deal Party. We are irritated with George Bush and the fact that it took him so long to find his veto pen. Indeed, it is my contention that had the Dems. run on a platform critical of his spending and immigration amnesty program in 2004 they would have won. Chance of that happening was zero.
Now is not the time to get all excited about what was said in a convention speech. The parties will flesh out their programs and we will know their stands if we do not know them now.
LOLV
ReplyDeleteThere are organizations, the American Conservative Union comes to mind, that rate the members of Congress on their voting record. Both sides of the aisle do it. It has been broadcasted from the beginning of the campaign that Senator Obama is the most liberal senator in the Senate. That's saying something since Ted Kennedy sits there. While they do not end up on the backs of jersey's they do go out in political literature and in magazines like The American Hunter one of the NRA publiations
LOLV,
ReplyDeleteWithin hours of her being named as VP pick, Palin was subjected to some of the most vicious slurs I've seen, including the Daily KOS claim that she faked her own pregnancy to hide her daughter's "shame." It's pretty brutal stuff.
Thankfully, and to his credit, Obama himself condemned these personal attacks, which probably would not have occurred had the pick been a male.
But Obama is a man of integrity. So is McCain.
Months ago, before the candidates were known, you posted a blog claiming that none of these candidates inspire you. "Of the viable candidates, there are none who I'd actually really want to win."
A little later, you expanded on your thoughts. "Come november 2008 I will be faced with two crappy, hypocritical, corrupt, spineless candidates who will probably continue to destroy the alleged best 'democracy' in the world." You painted McCain as a "snake."
That's where we differ. I like all four candidates. Each has his or her own flaws, but something about each of them is special.
penis club?
ReplyDeleteHillary = #16
ReplyDeleteYes. membership in that club has all kinds of benefits that have no application to those not so endowed.
ReplyDeletethe first protester to get on camera holding a large black & white "McCain votes against vets" sign
ReplyDeleteYeah, the station I watched panned that guy 1/2 a dozen times! Whaz wit. that!
I did like the substance of McCain's speech. He sounded more like a fiscal conservative rather than one whose primary goal is to reach across the alse. He blamed both parties for our Governments failure.
If our goverment was more fiscally conservative, the social goals of government would be more properly met. i.e. no big gov spending on cultural values, whether they be abortion or religion.
I have been vocal for months about my displeasure at the candidates - That hasn't changed, so I'm not sure what your point is.
ReplyDeleteI brought up the Palin thing because you made a whole post about what a wonderful speech she gave, which is hard to believe considering that most of what she said was either false or downright nasty. What kind of role model stands in front of the nation and disparages her opponent by disparaging his record of community organizing? This has nothing to do with gender, it has to do with one half of a major-party ticket delivering a speech full of lies and vitrol and everyone overlooking that because it was well delivered. I can recite the alphabet beautifully, does that mean you should vote for me in the next presidential election?
Was she unfairly attacked when her selection was announced? OF course. And I was outraged as were many other people in both parties. That doesn't make me more likely to vote for a ticket whose platform I find to be morally objectionable on almost every level.
I have been vocal for months about my displeasure at the candidates - That hasn't changed, so I'm not sure what your point is.
ReplyDeleteMy point, quite simply, is that you are operating from a different starting point than many of the rest of us. You already have a negative view of these candidates, so I would not expect yu to change that view based on listening to a speech.
As far as Palin's speech is concerned, it was refereshing. Sure, she took shots at Obama, but in a humorous way.
I was impressed by her folksy charm, something that people inside the beltway seem to lose.
Substantively, she and I are miles apart. But I can still like her. I can still recognize what is obvious - she gave a brillinat speech, doing what she had to do.
I never got the impression she was being "downright nasty." Nor do I consider her speech a speech "full of lies and vitriol."
Fact Checking the Palin Speech Fact Check:
ReplyDeletehttp://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NWFlNmI3ODE3YTA1ZTY1MmMxMDVmNTQwZDM3MDMzNjI=
I will admit that I generally like LOLV's comments, but I am going to disagree with her regarding "community organizers."
ReplyDeleteDid you ever notice that the worst towns and cities have the most community organizers?
You can't walk a half block in Philly without stepping on the feet of at least two "community organizers."
Vince Fumo ran a community organization in Philly.
Sam Bennett says she's a community organizer.
My personal thought is that the best "community organizers," the ones that really get things done and care about their communities aren't paid and don't call themselves "community organizers."
They call themselves volunteers.
LOLV wrote: "What kind of role model stands in front of the nation and disparages her opponent by disparaging his record of community organizing?"
ReplyDeletePerhaps it is because that is what Senator Obama has put forth on his resume as part of what makes him qualified to be President of the United States and the title "community organizer" seems to be deliberately vague and devoid of any accountability.
I must admit that I have never seen a job posting seeking a "community organizer", so I would be happy to discover just what the duties of the job include.
It would be refreshing if Sen. Obama would elaborate on his duties, goals, successes and failures as a "community organizer". Or perhaps being a "community organizer" for ACORN is just code for getting out the vote for the democrat political machine in Chicago.
But please, feel free to cite the lasting improvements in Chicago attributed to Senator Obama's "community organizing".
I can't speak to Obama's experience, as noted above I'm not an Obamaphile and I don't know the ins and outs of his record. I know that his experience, other than voter registration (which wasn't partisan. Since when is encouraging people to participate in the electoral process something for only democrats?) was working for a faith-based organization, but beyond that I'm not familiar with it. Maybe if one of his supporters is reading this blog they can elaborate further.
ReplyDeleteI can speak to my own experience as a community organizer and activist though. My volunteer experience includes improving literacy, organizing communities to fight gentrification and unfair housing practices in their neighborhoods, and community gardening/sustainable food organizing in poor neighborhoods. Some of my responsibilities have included volunteer coordination, event planning, meeting with local officials and residents to facilitate productive meetings, finding access to books and other reading materials and organizing tutors to teach people to read and write - as well as tutoring myself, and doing massive educational outreach about healthy living and sustainability. I am sure that is minor compared to the scale of responsibility taken on by Obama.
Some people would also say that professionally I work in community organizing (yes, I got paid to help others, too!). In particular, I worked with small businesses in low to moderate-income neighborhoods to find non-predatory business financing.
As I said, I can't speak for Barack Obama and how he improved his community in Chicago, but I have no doubt that he could point to specific results. I can speak for myself and say that at least 150 people have learned to read and write in part because I helped them, and that in turn, those people will be able to help their children learn to read and write - they will be eligible for better jobs, with better pay, and will be able to contribute more to our economy and to their communities. I know that more than 200 families are able to feed themselves because I helped them implement an urban gardening system in their neighborhood, and that they will be healthier and less impoverished as a result. I know that several small businesses will succeed because they have fair business loans, which I helped them secure, instead of predatory loans which will eventually put them out of business and in unmanageable debt. I know that those businesses will also contribute to the economy and to their communities, and so the effects will ripple. I also know that time and time again I have come up against major failures in public policy and thought "We need reform at such a higher level than I am working at in order for my work to be effective." Which, from the little I do understand about Obama's history - is exactly what motivated him to run for public office.
There are dozens of forms of community organizing, and there are many levels of responsibility. It almost never includes being well-paid, and it almost always includes having to make compromises and find solutions to seemingly impossible problems and having to do more with less, all the time. I don't think I am qualified to be president because of what I do, and I wouldn't argue that community organizing is what makes Obama qualified to be president. I also wouldn't argue that being governor of Alaska qualifies someone to be Vice President, but ultimately neither of those points are relevant to the point I'm making.
What I do know for sure is that the qualities I see in my coworkers, other volunteers, and community organizers I have worked with in the Lehigh Valley and in New York are qualities which I aspire to - which I hope my children aspire to - which I would think every American should aspire to in one way or another - and so to INSULT someone, to DISPARAGE their "experience" because instead of pursuing a high-paying corporate law career, he has chosen to dedicate his time and energy, devote his resources to helping others - is an outrage and Sarah Palin and any other Republican who chooses that route of attack should be ashamed of themselves.
" . . .and so to INSULT someone, to DISPARAGE their "experience" because instead of pursuing a high-paying corporate law career, he has chosen to dedicate his time and energy, devote his resources to helping others - is an outrage and Sarah Palin and any other Republican who chooses that route of attack should be ashamed of themselves."
ReplyDeleteWhere was all this outrage for the belittling of Sarah Palin's experience?
If the only thing Sarah Palin had ever accomplished was to give back even the $1200 to families across Alaska from the oil companies, then her "experience," "dedication," and "devotion" all far exceed Barack Obama's.
yes, as I noted SEVERAL times, my point is not about whose experience makes them more or less qualified for national ticket. I don't care is Palin argues for 5 days straight that she's more experienced and qualified for office than Obama is - what I am offended at is that she put down Obama for pursuing a very honorable career path.
ReplyDeleteThis was her statement:
I guess a small-town mayor is sort of like a "community organizer," except that you have actual responsibilities.
try replacing "community organizer" with "teacher" and see how that reads? Its shameful.
LOLV -
ReplyDeleteI, like yourself and many others, have been active in my community for many years. You are naturally entitled to your own opinion, but I took no offense at Palin's comment.
Please remember, Palin's comment was a direct response to comments from the Obama camp that her experience as Mayor of a small town was not relevant.
Somehow her experience was being questioned when there have never been questions about the specifics of Obama's "community organizer" claim.
I certainly don't think the comment you cite is an slap at community organizers. This is afterall, a woman who served in various roles in her community (before seeking elected office) and understands the importance of community service.
It is, however, a statement on the thin presidential qualifications of Barack Obama and the bias when comparing the records of Obama and Palin.
The Obama camp would like you to believe otherwise to deflect attention from the issue of presidential qualifications.
Anon 4:05 here again. Back to the topic of the post.
ReplyDeleteI'd have to agree with Bernie that McCain's speech lacked excitement. Not surprising, considering speech-making isn't McCain's strong-point and Palin turned out to be a tough act to follow.
lolv, i have never heard the term predatory or non-predatory used before in regard to business loans. now, i will not mention the organization you work for, or their small business startup division, but, please don't refer to normal business financing as predatory. if the truth be told, the small businesses you stake are not qualified for normal loans, and usually don't survive anyway after your handout. your director is very successful at securing donations from corporate
ReplyDeleteAmerica and bending arms at banks seeking regulatory approvals. but it's not real, and it's not sustainable, and in my conservative views it's not even constructive.
I'd have to agree with Bernie that McCain's speech lacked excitement. Not surprising, considering speech-making isn't McCain's strong-point and Palin turned out to be a tough act to follow.
ReplyDeleteBut speaking to smaller groups or off the cuff is a McCain strength. I'm looking forward to an interesting exchange of views down the road. Unlike LOLV, I think this group has integrity, but I liked Edwards, so LOLV may be right.
MM - First of all I no longer work for that organization, but I appreciate your discretion.
ReplyDeleteI am not referring to "normal business financing" as predatory - "normal business financing" is not available to the businesses we work with, for a wide variety of reasons, some legitimate and some not. What we do is try to prevent these businesses from having to use credit cards or unsavory "business loans" with extremely high interest rates to finance their businesses. When we work with businesses who are eligible for "normal business financing" we direct them to those resources. Our default rate is very low, considerably lower than most commercial lenders - and it is in no ways a handout, it is a business loan with collateral and interest - do your homework before making accusations.
Do some of the businesses assisted through our loan program fail? Of course they do. Do some succeed? Yes. It is unfair to claim that "most" are failures. Microfinance is widely embraced by both liberals and conservatives as one of the most productive and sustainable models for decreasing poverty not only here but all across the globe. I can't help it if you don't like it, but this is the opposite of a handout, and I'd love to talk to you more about this in another venue.
"The use of the phrase, "my friends," to people who are not really his friends,"
ReplyDeleteParliamentary Law. The backbone to fair, open government. Eck thinks.
For those of you interested in Senator Obama's work as a community organizer you might want to check the September 1, 2008 editon of National Review and an article entitled "Senator Sleuth" written by Stanley Kurtz. It is on page 32.
ReplyDeleteBanker,
ReplyDeleteI'm no Obamaniac either. But the jokes about Community Organizers, have many grassroots groups stepping it up.
The GOP shot their feet this week. Palin now more popular than McCain.
Look back at the cheers last night.
For those of you interested in Senator Obama's work as a community organizer you might want to check the September 1, 2008 editon of National Review and an article entitled "Senator Sleuth" written by Stanley Kurtz. It is on page 32.
ReplyDeleteUhh, yeah. Let me run right over and read a conservative rag magazine to learn how Obama is full of it and McCain is great. Then I'll pick up The New Republic to read all about the savior Obama and the devil, McCain. Silly...
Spike,
ReplyDeleteRemember that the comments regarding "community organizer" were said in response to the Obama camp denigrating her small town mayoral experience. I can tell you that many people from small towns didn't like that at all. It'll be interesting to see how both play out.
You are right though - Palin is pretty damn popular!
The Banker