In Hocus Pocus, author Kurt Vonnegut notes one of our flaws - "everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance." That was very evident at last night's Northampton County council meeting.It's Spring.
John Stoffa picked a good night to be absent. Every member of council was demanding to know when we're finally going to start doing something. Ron Angle asked Director of Administration John Conklin to explain what is going on with our building projects. Conklin explained approvals are needed from municipalities, but Angle was dubious.
"Sooner or later, you've got to do something."
Charles Dertinger: "We have an administration that can't build a birdhouse."
J. Michael Dowd: "We have to decide whether we're going to do something."
John Cusick: "Our archives is being held hostage to a thirty million dollar parking garage."
Ron Angle: "Somehow we need to light a fire under this executive."
Earlier that evening, Diane Neiper convinced her council colleagues to approve a resolution expressing a desire that the new Archives and Records Management facility be built as a stand alone project instead of being a part of the new parking deck. "We need to move on with the Archives as planned and approved in the original space."
Council also appointed a committee to meet with the executive and a court representative bi-weekly to assess the county's building projects.
Here's my question - why is everyone in such a damn hurry?
49 comments:
What exactly is an "Archives and Records Management" facility? It's 2008. It's now called a computer. Are we actually building a structure to house paper instead of actively and aggressively digitizing records? How absurd.
http://www.phmc.state.pa.us/bah/RecordsMgnt/LocalGovCountySchedule.asp?secid=43
Hayshaker,
Some of those documents have historical significance. They are treasures. Others must be maintained in hard copy form for a number of years.
Any delay in wasting my tax dollars is welcome. Don't just do something. Stand there.
Hayshaker, two and three hundred year old paper documents must be preserved. As I was researching my own house deed I got back to 1876 in the books at the NC Deeds office. Before 1876 all records were on microfilm. I must say I looked at the microfilm and the quality was so poor it is impossible to read. The deed books were hand written and I could pick out a date or a word here and there but that was it. These records of county and city records must be preserved. Just 20 years ago there was not much talk of an internet. We were still playing our LP's and 8-track tapes. Technology is moving so fast now that state of the art now will be out of date 10 years from now. But that old historic paper will still be here if it has a good storage space. NC had a good archives building and they tore it down for some expansion at that land locked NCGC area. I have books from the 1790's printed in Bethlehem by the Moravians.That 200 year old paper was made from rag fibers, not the wood pulp and acid stuff they make today. They must be preserved. Thanks Henry Schaadt
Treasures should be in museums or libraries. They should be given to local Special Collections where they can be stored and preserved properly. I know that website states that they should be in the custody of the county but I'm sure proper contracts can be prepared.
Historical documents not deemed "treasures" should be catalogued and digitized. Rejuvenate a dilapidated structure for the use of storing anything needed "hard copy."
And please, we are not actually still using micro-fiche are we? I weep for the bureaucrats.
Anon 11:09 - You make the salient point. Technology is moving fast and is much more advanced today than whatever device scanned the documents you viewed. Add to that the substandard microfiche viewing equipment.
The truth is that today digital scanning technology is extremely advanced and is PERMANENT. And it only opens those records up for the people who can search and research more conveniently.
True Hay.. My point is we still MUST save the historic documents regardless of what format a copy is made from them. Would you throw an original print of the Declaration Of Independence in the garbage can because we can print new copies of it? Thank you Henry
Hayshaker,
Actually, the state won't allow those records to be digitalized. they must be placed on microfilm. The technology, as advanced as it is, will not guarantee the retention of an image for long periods. Once the technology advances, some of the suggestions you make will surely be implemented.
As for the old paper records, these are treasures, but they are treasures we must be able to access in order to search a title. They don't just have historical significance, but have legal significance as well and must be maintained so that titles can be cleared.
So how's the deed searching going? Housing market down a bit?
Digitization will not guarantee the retention of an image? Of course it will. It will look the same 1000 years from now. Microfilm and microfiche are on physical media and THEY WILL deteriorate over time.
As for the title searches, it's a perfect reason why they MUST be digitized. Repeated handling and exposure to elements will eventually deteriorate those documents. They must be preserved digitally now before it is too late. Think 500 years from now, not 50.
I'm with Hayshaker. I understand the historic importance of certain documents, but question a need for such an expensive solution. It's taken some time to get to this point. A bit longer to find a more reasonable solution won't hurt. If emergency measures are necessary, they should be underway now.
"hayshaker said...
Digitization will not guarantee the retention of an image? Of course it will. It will look the same 1000 years from now. " Thats what sound arcives at libraries and museums thought when they were recording 78 rpm recordings onto reel to reel tape to "preserve them". Guess what, the tapes have deteriorated and the 78's are still here. I do not honestly beleive that 1000 years from now someone will have a 1000 year old DVD player to play that DVD or digital whatever. One virus or electronic glitch can wipe everything out in a heartbeat. How many 8tracks do you still play? If the county has to copy and copy and recopy every manuscript every 10 years it will still cost more than perserving what we have had for 200 and 300 years. Thanks Henry
So how's the deed searching going? Housing market down a bit?
Times are tough.
"Think 500 years from now, not 50."
According to Al Gore, this isn't necessary.
:)
Thats what sound arcives at libraries and museums thought when they were recording 78 rpm recordings onto reel to reel tape to "preserve them". Guess what, the tapes have deteriorated and the 78's are still here. I do not honestly beleive that 1000 years from now someone will have a 1000 year old DVD player to play that DVD or digital whatever. One virus or electronic glitch can wipe everything out in a heartbeat. How many 8tracks do you still play? If the county has to copy and copy and recopy every manuscript every 10 years it will still cost more than perserving what we have had for 200 and 300 years. Thanks Henry
No offense but it is this kind of uninformed statement that leads to poor choices in document preservation and needless taxpayer expense. A proper system would not be "wiped out" by a simple glitch nor would records need to be recopied. If this ridiculous scenario were the case, I'd pull every cent you have out of the market, sell your house and buy gold. Lots of it. The fact is that all of modern society is moving to more efficient means of data handling. File cabinets and microfiche machines are a thing of the past as THEY are the very things which may sacrifice our documented history because of shortsightedness.
Hayshaker, Do yourself a favor and look at the link posted here this morning. The county is governed by statutes and regulations on document preservation. It has no authority to decide, unilaterally, to start making digital images of everything and throwing out the records.
Deeds, mortgages, etc. MUST be kept permanently for administrative, legal and historical reasons. Current deeds are scanned and there are digital images, but these must be copied periodically to prevent failure. In addition, a duplicate copy is storred at another location in the state.
These records are what determine questions of ownership and must be maintained.
Older court records may be microfilmed. As of about one year ago, the state was not convinced that the useful life of a digital image is superior to microflim. Microfilm lasts about 100 yrs while digital images are much less reliable. Once the technology improves, I'm certain that gigital imaging will be the way to go.
In additon, the courthouse will soon start e-recording and e-filing. But the other records must be maintained and for many reasons. Check out the link and you will see the volume is enormous.
I actually did browse the link.
I'm still trying to comprehend the notion that a digital file has a less "useful life." Do the people making these laws understand the technology at all? How can a binary file have degradation? I don't get the point.
I also understand the fact that some items must be preserved. I am not saying otherwise. What I am saying is do we need to build a building for these records or not? I think not. Now a data center - I might be with you then.
There is really no need to build a building, I believe the lease is paid for by fees. Wasn't there a plan to work with the Historic Society on sharing space with them in Easton.
Either way, this crowd should not attack Mr. Stoffa he is the only competent one of the bunch. Someone told me that Dowd and McHale may run for County Executive, oh God, clueless and more cluelesser. I hope Mr. Stoffa runs for re-election.
sure, digital files can last for a long time - oh yeah, how are you going to store those digital files?
Bernie: As a Northampton County taxpayer .... I say do more with less!!! I agree, why is everyone in such a hurry? Are these improvements really needs? I do a lot of work in the Courthouse and see all kinds of space that is not being used efficiently.
Digital preservation
your link says...
The recording media for digital data deteriorate at a much more rapid pace, and once the deterioration starts, in most cases there is already data loss. This characteristic of digital forms leaves a very short time frame for preservation decisions and actions.
Hayshaker,
Your own link defeats your argument. Believe me, we all like digital imaging and use it as much as we can in offices like the recorder's where there are multiple copies made. But in the Prothy, civil documentsd are microfilmed, not digitally imaged, because that process is simply more reliable. We'd all prefer digital images bc they are so much easier to work with, but the state won't permit that until the technology advances.
Let me fix the quote, "We have an administration that can't build a birdhouse." By adding...
not without raising taxes;
not without issuing 3 bonds;
not without four review committees;
not without band-standing;
not without finger pointing;
not without more PAC money;
etc.
County government at its finest.
O_o
Hi Hayshaker. Maybe we are just not connecting here. I wasn't just talking about deeds and such of the 20th and 19th century, I mean other documents as well. I am sure the arcives have documents signed by George Taylor, Robert Morris, etc. These were signers of the Declaration of Independence. Many other historic documents of early statesmans must be there as well. We can not possibly put these in private hands were they could be sold to the highest bidder. Thanks Henry
" How can a binary file have degradation? I don't get the point." simple, technology is changing so fast how do you know we will be using that format 10 years from now? How many cell phones could take pictures and movies just 5 years ago.? We must still preserve our 2 and 300 year old paper documents(which were made from rag scrap fibers and not the acid paper of today which can deteriorate much faster). I put many pictures on floppys just 5 or 6 years ago. Guess what? how many new computers even have a floppy slot??.I don't know why we even have to discuss this. The historical preservation of these should be a given. The NC has many other issues to deal with and if we cannot preserve documents that our forfathers thought worth saving for 200 years who the heck are we? 25 years from now I and possibly you will no longer exist on this earth. Hay.. do you want to be the generation that decided to throw all those precious documents in the garbage can? Thanks Henry
Some excellent points here. Before we rush to build a multi-million dollar building,think. This by the adninistration that says,'the County, can't build well', we should clarify which are the most precious documents that need to be preserved and plan around that need.
But, no we have the typical bureaucratic brian of Stoffa nad the less than smart County Council screaming we need to build another building with taxpayer funds.
I think what frustrates some of the posters here is the single minded perspective of County "leaders", who can't think outside the building.
" How can a binary file have degradation? I don't get the point." simple, technology is changing so fast how do you know we will be using that format 10 years from now? How many cell phones could take pictures and movies just 5 years ago.? We must still preserve our 2 and 300 year old paper documents(which were made from rag scrap fibers and not the acid paper of today which can deteriorate much faster). I put many pictures on floppys just 5 or 6 years ago. Guess what? how many new computers even have a floppy slot??.I don't know why we even have to discuss this. The historical preservation of these should be a given. The NC has many other issues to deal with and if we cannot preserve documents that our forfathers thought worth saving for 200 years who the heck are we? 25 years from now I and possibly you will no longer exist on this earth. Hay.. do you want to be the generation that decided to throw all those precious documents in the garbage can? Thanks Henry
Who said anything about throwing documents in the garbage? I suggested giving them to local special collections (like several universities) that already have the facilities to hold such valuable paper.
As for your floppies and BOH's concerns, it goes well beyond choosing a file format and a storage medium. Proper archiving and storage would require a detailed and rigorous schedule of backups and replication. It is complicated but certainly not rocket science. Obviously any magnetic media will degrade over time but the actual data will NOT assuming the data is properly backed up and replicated.
Hayshaker - there are reasons why legal documents are not given to special collections. They can be sold through deaccessioning. Those are the conditions that any museum, including local one's, will accept holdings from government. They have that right. That's why governments are charged, by law mind you, to keep legal documentation available to the public.
Second, the commonwealth of pennsylvania has yet to promulgate which format to use for electronic media. Again, that's because technology has not settled on which format to use.
Third, the archives building will be paid by filing fees by users of the deeds office and register of wills office through the records improvement fees, not taxes.
Fourth, the Pennsylvania Historical and Museum Commission has outlined what local municipal governments are supposed to keep permanently. There are no exceptions by law.
Lastly, the county leaders are only arguing over where to build an archives building, not if they are going to build a building.
Lastly, the county leaders are only arguing over where to build an archives building, not if they are going to build a building
Yes, I am aware of that.
I am also aware of the short-sightedness and the technological ineptitude of the state.
Anonymous, would you not consider a "fee" a "tax?" You must be a politician. :)
As for what is "required by law" to be kept - can you outline what volume of material we are bound to store? I'm assuming that this volume can only possibly be stored in a NEW structure paid for by resident "fees."
Hayshaker -
"I am also aware of the short-sightedness and the technological ineptitude of the state."
Bingo to the above!
But respectfully, I don't see fees as a tax. Much like the argument that the elderly should not have to pay school taxes (or nearly as much) because they don't use the schools, fees are utilized by the legislature to assess revenue on those that use the system. Much like court costs are assessed on the criminals for creating their own dockets.
As for what is required by the county, please see the following link:
http://www.phmc.state.pa.us/bah/RecordsMgnt/LocalGovCountySchedule.asp?secid=43
As for local governments:
http://www.phmc.state.pa.us/bah/RecordsMgnt/LocalGovCountySchedule.asp?secid=43
As for the County Court system:
http://www.aopc.org/index/CommonPleas/recretentsched05rev.pdf
Annon 2:45
I understand and thank you for the Administrations take on this issue. That being said there is no need to build a building to house the documents. The past County Executive was constantly blasted for 'letting taxpayers pay to rent a building'. I am glad that now, finally, due to it serving the administrations purposes the truth is told that FEES always paid for the lease.
However, if you build a building and cost it out, the fees pay for part of it.
The best plan for 'TAXPAYERS" is to partner with someone and lease the space.
Except the elderly SHOULD pay school tax because they indeed use the system whether they have children or not. That's not an argument that holds any weight whatsoever to me.
To Anon 1:40
How do you figure that? If you lease, your giving money away to a third party (usually someone who gives a political contribution). If you build, your using your fees in equity for the taxpayer. How do you argue that?
To Hayshaker - I don't know too many elderly people on fixed incomes that use the school systems. Give examples please if I am wrong.
This Administration leader Stoffa said,"We don't build well". The idea of equity is fine for an investor but sometimes renting or leasing is a viable option. It is obvious this Administration and County Council have a tough time getting enough brainpower together to blow its nose. They jump from one costly idea to another. Without a good substantiated plan for fuure needs, leasing is a viable option. There were some great past ideas but this group refuses to condiser any of them.
County buildings are fine investments if they will serve a long term purpose. It is not the private sector, the profit motive isn't or shouldn't factor in to the equation.
If you build, it will cost more than projected, you must maintain it. If you lease, the owner is stuck with maintence and repairs and upgrades.
To Hayshaker - I don't know too many elderly people on fixed incomes that use the school systems. Give examples please if I am wrong.
Elderly folks don't reap the benefits of an educated society?
All of society reaps the benefits. Modern American society if fueled by an educated populace. Education is so intertwined with everything in everyone's life, it is impossible to separate the two.
To Anon 1:40
How do you figure that? If you lease, your giving money away to a third party (usually someone who gives a political contribution). If you build, your using your fees in equity for the taxpayer. How do you argue that?
I argue for the third option: BUY an existing building. Or are there no vacant buildings left in Northampton County?
Hayshaker... I agree with you. The county should do something NOW to solve this storage problem. They had a plan some years ago to store the documents in the basement of the old Pomeroy's building with a lease that was very expensive. Also a basement is the last place I would place historical documents. All you meed is a 100 year old sewer or water main to fail and much will be lost. From what I understand, the county is paying many thousands of dollars a month just for off site storage now. They were paying over $1000 a month for years just to store the shelving for the documents. Then when the county offered the shelving for sale, the high bid was about $700... scrap metal price. I think they can build a structure at the Gracedale location and build an extention there were there is plenty of room and plenty of parking. They can also move other offices there that do not have to be at that landlocked Easton location.. heck, it may even save 40 million dollars for that stupid parking deck they want to build.! Thanks Henry
I think every effort should be made to develop an unused former industrial building. It's amazing what can be done!
"I think every effort should be made to develop an unused former industrial building. It's amazing what can be done!"
Everyone knows that retrofitting is more expensive than new construction.
WOW, I will happily concede the point that historical documents should not be stored in a wet basement. Having said that, I am unaware of any past plan that would just toss documents in the Pomeoroy basement. There was a plan, a very good mutually beneficial paln to work with the Historical and Geneolpgical Society to share space and cost. It would have helped the County and Easton and those interested in History. The plan had a few vocal opponents who happened to support Mr. Stoffa. That meant the deal was dead.
There is no question it costs to rent or lease. It will cost to build or buy. The question is what are the needs today and tomorrow(20-30 years), what are the finances and how does the plan fit into an overall plan. This is a County thats been chasing its own tail for a few years now. Neither the Executive or Council has shown any leadership.
A new building may be best, gracedale may be best, renting an existing structure may be best, it's hard to tell because this Administration has no credibility.
As to rennovation costing more than new construction, an old County employee would always play that old saw. The point is, it depends on the renovation.
It is important to compare apples to apples. Unfortunately Northampton County is hip deep in Catnip.
Everyone knows that retrofitting is more expensive than new construction.
Those Starters Riverport people must be really stupid. They don't even know the basics of construction!
We are talking about an archives facility, right?
"There was a plan, a very good mutually beneficial plan to work with the Historical and Geneological Society to share space and cost. It would have helped the County and Easton and those interested in History. The plan had a few vocal opponents who happened to support Mr. Stoffa. That meant the deal was dead."
The "few vocal opponents" are called architectural engineers who found out that the old building could not support the floor loads necessary for archival storage. Try another backstabbing political spin.
Stoffa really did not have a position on whether to stick with the Historical and Geneological Society or build anew until well after he was elected. That's why he formed a committee, and they came up with the idea of a stand alone archives. There was no politics. It was the recommendation of long-time county employees.
Ah yes the Stoffa style. Decision, who me?, quick a committee, here's your script.
And so the anonymous snarks begin. Stoffa has been putting out fires because of an administrration that acted but never thought.
I hear you. Old 'nice guys finish last', McHale wants to lead. I really hope Mr. Stoffa runs for re-election. She is certainly no alternative to John.
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