I'm more than a little disgusted in the wake of last week's triple homicide in Easton. It's brutal and mindless, hard to comprehend.Also brutal and mindless are the comments that always accompany these stories at The Morning Call. On Saturday, I read remarks like these.
"This problem ends if you get rid of the negros. Any black man 20 years of age or older not working without a degree gets shipped off to the military. Make them the first wave in any assault."
Or this, supposedly posted by a professional who has patients.
"WHAT DO YOU EXPEXT [sic] FROM A BUNCH OF NY/NJ IMPORTED MINORITY MONGRELS!!!!!!!!
THIS TRASH AND THE SALSA COCKROACH TYPE ALIKE ARE RUINING THE LEHIGH VALLEY AND THE POCONOS!!!!!!!!!
HALF OF MY PATIENTS IN DOWNTOWN ALLENTOWN HAVE NO JOBS NO INSURANCE AND DONT SPEAK ENGLISH WORTH A DAM[sic]!!!
HAVE YOU DRIVEN DOWN HAMILTON BLVD LATELY??????"
I flagged these offensive remarks on Saturday, but they still stand proudly this morning. This would never occur if (1) people were required to register or (2) hate speech was quickly removed by conscientious editors. The cowards who vomit this hate never identify themselves, hiding instead behind sock puppets.
By being so lax about removing hate speech, The Morning Call has become an enabler to bigots and anti-Semites, and its forum has actually legitimized their remarks.
Instead of bringing people together, its forum is dividing us. I don't know a single Lehigh Valley blog that would allow hate speech to stand for days. But these folks in the MSM are getting paid. If they can't monitor the hate speech, they shouldn't have the forum at all.
53 comments:
Bernie, you missed a few more from Saturday.
"the only good spear chucker is a dead spear chucker"
"its a shame they stopped shooting at three."
Nice people.
I suggested mandatory registration a couple of weeks ago. You didn't seem to like that idea.
It is the ONLY way to get sensible posts. AND you can still remain anonymous.
If editors there can't be bothered to scrub the site of hate, then mandatory registration or pre-screening is neceassary. I don't like registrration bc it deters people from commenting. One example is you. You've never registered here. But I remove hate speech and it doesn't take me days to do so.
People see these for what they are. I think it would be a big mistake to start policing them. Where do they draw the line? If you have noticed recently the Call does not give the race of a criminal at large even when known..They choose to be politically correct in that regard and I think that is dangerous. I don't think they need to follow that up by being word police in the columns..
I would certainly register if I was required.
You forgot to mention the Homophobic rants.
Have you read any of the topics that revolve around the "King and King"( 600 some post in a few days) book, or the physical assault in downtown Allentown a month or so ago described as a Hate Crime? I believe that these posters depend of the silence of the so called " good people" to bully the Culture here and project the mantra of "go home". I believe that they do represent the majority mindset and the underbelly of the Region based on my own first hand experience. I once heard a County employee use the "N" words with no reticence, like I was suppose to chime in and sing the chorus.
However there seems to be a trend on Gay topix where the bullie's diatribes are dissected in an Intelligent rational and logical manner which leaves the bullies somewhat speechless-" words cut deeper than swords". Their irrational mindsets and Ol Wives Tale reality get shattered and all that is left is chest pounding and insults. Then they back to their Caves and feaster.
Tom Foolery,
The Morning Call has already decided to police these remarks. Certain words can't be used, and offensive posts are supposed to be deleted.
By permitting offensive racist, anti-Semitic or homophobic rants to remain on the site, the MC is actually legitimizing these kinds of rants. And no, I don't think we need to leave them up for all to see. This simply encourages like-minded folks to continue.
As far as where you draw the line is concerned, I think you do it when something is clearly hate-filled speech targeted at specific groups or people.
I agree with you that the race of at-large suspects should be published when enough other factors are know to make race a legitimate identifying characteristic.
Have you read any of the topics that revolve around the "King and King"( 600 some post in a few days) book, or the physical assault in downtown Allentown a month or so ago described as a Hate Crime?
Will check.
Hayshaker,
I doubt it. A fellow blogger in Nazareth decided to make people who want to cvomment to register. Now most of his comments have dried up. His blog quickly transformed from an interesting interchange of ideas into one man's opinion.
Nice picture of the Strom Thurmond family reunion! Is that Doug REICHley on the left?
I don't know why. See "Jake" above. He is "registered" yet still anonymous. What it does prevent are egregious posts.
Hayshaker,
I've seen what happens to blogs that require registration or that require approval for comments. There are virtually no comments at all, which in my view destroys their interactive nature.
I saw it happen to another blog in Nazareth. I won't be making that mistake. I can delete hateful speech. But many people would not comment at all if they had to go to the trouble of registering. They don't even like word verification.
Bernie -
You beat me to this post (you bastard.) I've been complaining about this for a couple of years now. Every now and then - last week most recently - I respond to some lame comments posted on the Call’s comment forums. Some of the people that post there aren't even from the Lehigh Valley.
Even more troublesome is the fact that Chris Krewson, who happens to be a former adjunct professor of mine, said this on LOLV’s blog:
“I will say that you -- our audience -- can be the biggest help to us by flagging offensive posts on our message boards. Flagged posts appear in a special feed, and we can more quickly address them that way.
If there are abuses you see in our forums, please hit that "flag" button -- and you can always e-mail me, at chris.krewson@mcall.com.”
That was back in July!
Now I have this question: Does the Morning Call enjoy the types of bigotry that is exemplified and argued about in their comment forums? Or are they more concerned with readership instead of ethics and values?
They may enjoy allowing people in the Valley to be represented by bigots and racists, some of which do not even live in Pennsylvania, but I do not. Despite the jerks that do live here, there are actually a lot of decent people!
The Call's forums represent the Valley in a false light. They need to be monitored or removed!
What hole have you been living in? Hate of all sorts has a strong following in the land of McCarren Walters. 10,000 Nazis in west park rallying a few years before we were at war with them.
Visceral misanthropy has been endemic to this region's gene pool.
"Policing it" "editing it out" is precisely the opposite of what is needed: let our fellow citizens see the raw odiousness of hate in print.
Any effort to curtail even offensive speech is an abridgement of the 1st Ammendment. And the beginning of a slippery slope.
Perhaps we should criminalize the offenders for what they say?????? Criminalize thoughts? Criminalize the printed word?
Who decides? This is beyond Orwellian.
I believe the photo was taken last week at Robert Byrd's Thanksgiving celebration in West Virginny (it's either his fiddle under the sheet or he just happy to see his boys).
Looks like they were heading to a Barack rally.
free speech - Nonsense. The 1st Amendment does not apply to a private business' website.
I agree with Free Speech ( the blogger) Once you start policing this stuff you end up arresting teachers for naming their teddy bears mohammed.. Let the racists rant. Most people ignore it anyway.
I agree with free speech that more speech is the best solution to hate speech.
The MC, however, is a private enterprise and may limit, or not, whatever speech it chooses on its privately owned web site. They pay for the space and get to say what goes on it or not.
Free speech is not the issue here, it's paid speech (i.e. speech that nobody would read if not for the MC paying to maintain a private site).
Recent well-publicized examples like the Dixie Chicks and Imus are a case in point. The messages that got them in hot water (albeit temporarily) were widely seen and heard. I was the most publicized First Amendment complaint I'd ever heard - until Imus.
I loved when the Dixie Chicks complained about their First Amendment infringement in front of millions in numerous network and cable interviews. I had no trouble finding their message. They have a louder megaphone than I do in the public square (no offense Bernie, your blog's growth is tremendous and hereby acknowledged).
Free Speech!
Hayshaker is right about this. The First Amendment has no application to a privately run site.
My concern is that, by allowing comments like those to stand, we legitimize them. Moreover, those with similar views will have a rallying point and will be able to feed off each others' prejudices.
I pretty much let people say what they want here. I don't like playing comment cop and don't like to make judgement calls.
But when someone makes a remark that is both disgusting and hurtful, I have no choice. Remarks like those in the body of my post would not last long here. Racist anti-semitic, xenophobic, homophobic or sexist statements can't be allowed.
They do nothing to further a meaningful conversation. In fact, they send good people away.
AJ,
Chris Krewson is no longer at The Morning Call. He's now the online editor at the Inky. Good for him!
I flagged these offensive remarks on Saturday. As of this morning, they were still standing tall. Even now, many of them are still up.
I now am beginning to question whether these comments are allowed to stand because sensationalism attracts readers and drives up profits. Is the MSM looking to pad its bottom line?
I think you are correct on the sensatinalism angle Bernie. Some of the stuff that gets on those boards is jaw dropping for its nastiness
Hate of all sorts has a strong following in the land of McCarren Walters. 10,000 Nazis in west park rallying a few years before we were at war with them.
Actually, I never knew about that. I'd appreciate a little background.
to hell with the morning call, as well as to hell with the IronPigs for caving the name PorkChop
The MC shows no respect for the families of victims when they leave up offensive comments. I know of a grieving family member who asked the Call to please remove hateful comments about their loved one but they refused to because the editor did not find the comments offensive enough to remove. If we just ignore this hate it will only fester and people will feel more comfortable with spewing their hatred. Maybe if a lot of people complain or write letters to the editor it would help?
Chris, I think I'll have a post about this tomorrow. If the MC does not stop the hate, it is acting irresponsibly.
Is this all about the money?
Dottie, I have an even better idea. Letter to the editor just play into their hand.
There have been campaigns against other media outlets who have promoted hate as a way of increasing their bottom line. I'll have more about this later.
Geez, O'Hare, you just noticing this now? I hit on this a while ago in one of my very infrequent posts. Welcome to the fight.
http://www.lvcurmudgeon.blogspot.com/
The fact that these types of comments are still allowed just proves to me that The Morning Call leadership doesn't give a rat's a** about the Lehigh Valley so long as it can tell the MotherShip in Chicago that it is jumping through all the right hoops to ensure that managers get their MBO bonuses in January.
This is not a "community forum." It's an on-line Klan rally, and Cordi was right: they need to be monitored or removed. They don't encourage community discussions, they encourage hate-mongering and they are an embarrassment to the Valley.
Posting derogatory comments that grieving families can read is tasteless, regardless of the victims ethnicity.
But the first step of dealing with the Lehigh Valley's recent surge in violent crime is looking at who is responsible for the majority of attacks. At a glance, the names that appear in mcall stories regarding violent crime are prominently hispanic and African-American, not German. European-Americans commit crimes too, but we need some hard data to determine if non-Whites actually do commit a disproportionate percentage of crime.
If what appears to be the case is proven true, it is understandable that White area residents would post comments to make non-Whites feel unwelcome, even spread the word in NJ/NY to stay away from the LV, it fulla haters.
Curmudgeon,
I intend to pursue this.
Bernie, someone is posting as YOU right now at the forum. Breaking News story.
Great, The MC had assured me it was stopping that.
I agree and I'm glad you wrote about this, Bernie.
Not to defend MCall, but I believe the Chicago Tribune runs the Morning Call's Web site so the editors in Allentown, Bethlehem and Easton aren't the ones controlling their boards. Also there is at least a 15 minute delay in when content is posted until when content can be taken down.
These are two glitches that could (and should) probably be fixed. Hopefully, the matter will be taken care of.
Anon 2:06,
In addition to looking at who is responsible, we need to ask why. I had lunch with two local lawyers (one is criminal defense and the other is a prosecutor). They had a one word answer - drugs.
Anon 2:06,
In addition to looking at who is responsible, we need to ask why. I had lunch with two local lawyers (one is criminal defense and the other is a prosecutor). They had a one word answer - drugs.
I agree with Bernie here. That in and of itself is amazing.
There's entirely too much hateful posting in the MC forum. Illegal drugs are the main reason for the crime problems.
I've always been against even considering legalizing drugs for various reasons. Prominent among them is the idea that legalization is an admission of defeat. However, the genie is now out of the bottle and there's absolutely no way of putting it back in the bottle unless this nation is prepared to take draconian measures that most will find unacceptable. The fact of the matter is that demand for drugs is the biggest problem and the social cost is gangs and crime. That demand often comes from the suburbs.
Legalization would take the violence out of the streets and regulate the market. I never thought I'd get to this point, but I think legalization is the way to go. Illegal drugs are a $ 400 billion industry and there are few ways to shut it down.
Class warfare is the goal of those in power. "we will protect you!' the cry as they beg for our votes, and a terrified America votes for them.
Didn't the events of prohibition teach anybody anything? Legalize and tax it, the price will drop, and simple economics takes over.
But the core issue of Bernie's post is how a mainstream media entity fans the flames of racism and hate to stir a bottom line.
Personally, I think people need to be made aware of the hate that exists in their midst, many are oblivious to what they ignore.
But there needs to be a boundary line on what is acceptable in public discourse, and the Morning Call has been lax.
We recently had a big debate/discussion about publishing a post that included photographs with damning, suggestive innuendo of a local elected official, and we ended up policing ourselves in what I saw as a positive way.
Those MCall blog forums are exactly what we don't want to be.
Uncle Bernie, my class tomorrow will be centered around this issue: whether or not this type of talk should be allowed on an online newpaper.
I am sure that even my immature 13 year old students will have more sense than the jerks who wrote those comments on mcall.
Of course, they won't be reading your blog either. Or maybe they should?
Erik
Eric,
Whatever you do, don't let 13 year-old kids near my blog. They'll all need intensive psycho-therapy after five minutes.
I've spent some time checking things out, and have learned that this problem is occurring everywhere, not just here in the LV. And the main reason is because newspapers don't monitor what people write.
Newspapers claim they care what their readers think, and that's why they start allowing online comments. But guess what? They don't give a rat's ass. Comments always devolve into cruel, racist, anti-Semitic banter. Some would say that's what people in this or that area must be like. Some say a small group of racists exploit these comment boards. But the truth is that newspapers don't ever monitor what people are saying.
Despite their hypocritical protests to the contrary, newspapers really don't care what their readers think. if they did, they would delete offending comments. They should spend as much time and attention to comments as they do to letters to the editor. Then I'd believe they care. Now I question their motive.
I am glad that you have realized that this is not a Lehigh Valley issue. Blogs, such as TOPIX are nationwide and even worldwide. The extreme statments are from everywhere. At times it is probably someone who just wants to get a rise out of people and they usually take the bait.
I agree the MC can censor what they wish, but it is what it is, censorship. When Angle had some people say things on his show that offended people, many defended him claiming its not his fault. Lets face it hate speech is in the eye of the beholder.
Hey Bernie,
I hope all is well.
A few weeks back, the Mcall announced that they invested in new technology, something like $12 Million Dollars. I posted to the article and my post was removed.
I beleive that they monitor the post's, especially if it's about them.
I did not use any foul language but because I felt that their investment in a failing media was not worth the investment, they removed it. They can do what they want, it's theirs.
I'm a pro new media type and this is the sort of fallout associated with such.
If you recall a couple of weeks back the fire that took the life of a friend of mines son, Jeff Dailey, the comments were way off the mark and the Mcall did nothing to remove some very insensitive remarks.
Hey, I'm a fan of Sarah Silverman, she way out of line but I have a choice to watch or not, same as here, I have a choice to read or not, it's all about choice.
Oh and speaking of choice, I decided to to renew my subscription to the Mcall as it's over priced and run by out of towners who don't really give a shit about the reality of life in our greater Lehigh Valley.
Anon 8:34,
The hate speech occurs everywhere, not just in the LV. It occurs on forums that do not monitor closely what is being said. Now how can this be? How can the newspaper claim out of one side of its mouth that it is really interested in your opinion, and then say out of the other side of its mouth that it has no time to read what is being posted? It can't have it both ways.
Hate speech can be very clear. When it is, it needs to be removed. On my blog, I have a few examples where no other interpretation is possible.
Anon 8:41,
All is well, I think.
If the MC fails to monitor the comments, I'll stop reading them. It's a waste of time. But then the paper can't claim it is interested in reeder feedback. It knows many people sensationalize the stories, and has done nothing to stop this for years. Even tonight, I saw several offensive remarks. So is it really interested in a good discussion or is it looking for lots of hits on its comments forum to drive up ad impressions?
Bernie --- Free speech Bro!! While we have to tolerate certain types of individuals, it doesn't mean we have to like those individuals.
Reality,
Sorry, dude, but free speech does not apply to the comments feature of newspapers. They have total discretion. The hate speech being posted there actually detracts from meaningful discourse. The paper does not allow mindless rants to appear as letters to the editor? The stupid comments make me wonder whether the paper is a stupid place.
If free speech is not allowed on the "public comments" section of a public --not private--newspaper then where?
This false issue about ownership of a web sit is absurd, idiotic, misses the entire point: technology will always change-- robotic calls not real people; email to cell phones; webs not papers--thank God you curtailers of freedom were not around during Tom Paine's time. We would still be a colony! And this political correctness is nauseating as the racist slurs which free speech protects.
Get a grip on freedom, people far too many of you are willing to surrender it. Regardless of the form, free people can utter any absurdity they want. And free people can denounce it.
Who decides? Blogmesiter Bernie. The bought and paid for editorial flaks at the MCall. Ron Nazi--"the Jews control the media" Angle?
Whom?
Defend free speech or lose it.
Free Speech,
I have the right to decide what is said in my house. So does the MC. That's the law. Otherwise, you can use the First Amendment to become a bully. It is not absolute.
Funny you would mention the KKK. I couldn't believe topix would allow posts from the KKK members looking to congregate. I flagged it but it didn't do me any good. There it sits. I don't know where these people come from but its a real shame to dedicate your life to being a bigot and a racist and then claim to be religious.
http://www.topix.net/forum/state/pa
/T1E4SB14FNBK38IEO
here is the link the KKK is giving out.
http://www.pakukluxklan.com/
very sad. i can't believe people like this really exist.
I think it's time to sit down w/ the editorial board, the NAACP, ADL and the Hispanic Chamber of Commerce. Let the editors explain it to them,
Huh, found someone talking about my website on this post. So let me introduce myself. I am the Grand Dragon of The Realm of Pennsylvania for the Brotherhod of Klans, Incorporated. We a legally registered non-profit organization. Last time I checked, its a free country and the first amendment is still upheld.
If anyone wants more info on the KKK in PA please write to P.O. Box 191 Saint Thomas, PA. 17252 or check us out at www.pakukluxklan.com
Thank you and God Bless.
GD_BOK_PA,
Yes, you have First Amendment rights. No government may stop you from preaching hate or love. But no private entity is compelled to carry your messages, be it blog or newspaper. That would be slavery, and I'm sure you oppose that.
SAVE SCOTLAND SCHOOL
The inner Philadelphia city kids need Scotland Schook For Veterans Children. Click http://www.topix.net/forum/source/chambersburg-public-opinion/TGSUJ5K29EV529PJB/p43#c883
Just wanted to say hi to all of you here. This is my 1st posting here.
It certainly looks like the owners of the forum sure are doing a miraculous job.
I would like to learn tons of stuff here also I will assist other members as much as I can.
Nie grunt azali wyskoczył Ci kot jednakowoż napasłbyś w ksylem, a może schwyciłeś gumę z chętką pomożemy szybko i skutecznie. Zastanawiasz się co zrobić zatelefonujże [url=pomocdrogowaa2.pl]autopomoc wartkowice[/url]. Ochrońże spokój asystent drogowa przyjedzie pomoże. Każdy stale myśli, że to zamiejscowi zasoby dynamiki roboczej na metody, które muszą być zaniepokojony, ale dlaczego nie począć od se? Jeśli jederman być [url=pomocdrogowaa2.pl]pomoc drogowa emilia[/url] egzystować ileś w wyższym stopniu ciężcy w środku kierownicą zaś ćwiczyć pewne nawyki, miałoby treść, że kazusy, Road Rage i nieznanego niechciane klopsy jazdy będzie doświadczać modę spadkową. Nie mówiąc o wykazania praktyce opieki samochodu i perfekcyjne pracy brania uchwały w dupsku kierowcy, oto nieco prostych wskazówek, które każdy kierowca ma obowiązek znajdować się dobrowolny natomiast przestrzegać:
[url=pomocdrogowaa2.pl]pomoc drogowa gostków[/url] Wypadku ewentualnie awarii - co działać? 24-godzinna usługa ciągnięcia i wybieg zadzwon aż aż do asystent drogowa. Jesteśmy oblatanym konfratrem około samochodu. Razem nasze holowanie i komplet naczyń stołowych drogowy. Dlatego że pożądamy, aby prędko odebrać mobilność.
SPOŚRÓD barki drogowa Twój gablota znajdujący się chroniony, podczas gdy wynika to z awarii lub przypadku nie mieszczący się sposobny do żeglugi. Skontaktować się z serwem w kolejnym przeglądzie, będziemy Was komunikować.
W dokładnych losach, o kontakt asystent drogowa, zaś posady ratownicze przedsięwezmą niezbędne poziomy w tematu zapewnienia, że wehikuł [url=pomocdrogowaa2.pl]pomoc drogowa łęczyca[/url] bez ogródek na nawierzchni albo doprowadzony do domu.
Dokądkolwiek podróżujesz w Europie, są pomoc drogowa usługa przeznaczy pewność zostać mobilni. We współpracy nieobcymi. [url=pomocdrogowaa2.pl]autopomoc koło[/url]
Post a Comment