I caught all but the first few minutes of last night's surprisingly civil VEEP debate between Minnesota Governor Tim Walz and Ohio Sen. J.D. Vance. After months of hearing people paint each other in ugly and divisive terms, the respectful tone between these two provides a glimmer of hope that we can eventually pull ourselves out of the gutter.
I think most of us would agree that J.D. Vance was the better debater for most of the night until the focus switched to abortion and democracy. When you have to tell people you need to regain their trust on women's choice, you're in trouble. And Vance repeatedly refused to say whether Trump lost in 2020.
Walz, however, had to admit that he never was in China, as he often has previously claimed, during the Tiananmen Square protests. If you have to admit that you've been repeatedly untruthful on numerous occasions, that's pretty hard to explain away as "I misspoke."
Vance toned down the harsh rhetoric he usually employs on the campaign trail, instead trying to appear as a reasonable and compassionate person. Walz said there was room for agreement on some policies like a child tax credit and seemed more sincere despite having to admit to having been untruthful.
It appeared that Walz did his debate prep with Biden
ReplyDeleteVance won hands down. Does that mean anything? Not really. These debates are nothing more than window dressing to display the theater that is the current state of our Democracy/Republic.
ReplyDeleteIt's not good, but it's been worse and it will get better - as long as we have fair elections.
Speaking of which, L&A testing was today, Bernie why didn't you go?
Things ran smoothly, but after in depth discussion with CC and other prominent folks, we still have unresolved issues.
Our elections ARE A MESS. Vance was right about that.
I didn't see the whole debate and I missed the part about abortions and needing to regain trust on the subject. But based on how you are describing it, it doesn't seem like all that bad of a take.
Ask any unbiased (good luck!) person on the topic of "Abortion in America" and they will tell you it's a 'third rail' topic.
Everyone who tries to touch it, gets killed by it - Except DJT. Somehow he managed to do the UNTHINKABLE. (whether you agree with it or not)
He reversed Roe v Wade and somehow his political career isn't over!
It's almost as if we were lied to. Like, maybe Roe V Wade ISN'T overwhelmingly popopular. Maybe using Abortions as a form of BIRTH CONTROL is IMMORAL and KILLING a baby is WRONG!
Maybe...
Maybe abortions are not only necessary in the most extreme cases but often mandatory to save a life.
Maybe...
Maybe more than one thing can be true at once. I believe there is a word for that.
Maybe...
Maybe there is NUANCE in politics again.
Maybe Walz IS A LIAR.
Maybe Vance wasn't a bad pick.
Maybe, just maybe Trump/Vance winning the 2024 Presidential Election, fairly and freely of course ;) would be the best thing for America right now.
Maybe?
Yeah, no. Definitely not happening. The tangerine fecal stain and his side kick gonna get crushed next month!
DeleteMaybe you should stop pontificating. Maybe. Maybe you should stop spewing lies about our elections. Maybe. Maybe you should get off your soapbox at 3am. Maybe. Maybe you stop posting anti LGBTQ posts on X. Maybe you should learn how to write without the drama.
DeleteEh... try to avoid mimicking Trump's all caps messaging. It makes you look crazy, especially when you're ostensibly trying to address the nuance of sensitive topics.
DeleteMaybe Trump is the king all liars, hands down, period. Maybe Vance is his understudy.
Maybe abortion used to be a third rail, and now it's a rallying cry for women nationally, who have repeatedly punished Trump and his chauvinist allies at the ballot box since Roe's overturning.
Maybe the PA GOP has had four years to improve our systems but doesn't want to fix our elections, so they can constantly complain, whine and moan about them -- just like the Southern Border.
Maybe when Trump loses again he can focus on hawking his overpriced sneakers and watches, instead of eternally rambling reels of old lies that give sad people like John Goffredo a chubby in the trousers.
MAYBE you shouldnt hide behind annons KK! Lol
DeleteThis is fascinating. Why don’t you tell us about your bigoted tweets ?
DeleteAgree with you John that there is nuance out there in politics and that the more people understand that, the better and more productive the conversations will be.
DeleteThat said - I'd suggest you widen your social network if you think abortion is a non-issue, or that people are satisfied with the current environment surrounding it. I understand why the GOP played with the religious right on that policy plank, but it is a major anchor now for the party.
Except for rape etc how about women have protected sex and not get pregnant. Abortion is not contraception
DeleteAbortion as contraception is a twisted joke and not real. The fact is mistakes happen, poor decisions are made for any number of reasons, and you or I might choose differently depending on our own situation and circumstances. What works for us, may not for others. Have to allow others to do whats best for them and live with or without those consequences, perhaps paying for it in the afterlife...
DeleteYour take means nothing you voted. Trump in lanmdslide Fake media is lying it is not close. for Biden
ReplyDeleteIt's pretty bad when both VP candidates are better than the main ones. What to do? Bernie your take on it? Sad days for sure.
ReplyDeleteWhen you call yourself a knucklehead on the debate stage you lost lol.
ReplyDeleteWhat jumped out to me on abortion was Walz refusal to answer the question about the 9th month. He dodged it twice. He's an extremist when it comes to abortion. I also thought the questions sucked. Nothing on Ukraine.
ReplyDeleteGood point. Like any good lawyer, Vance carefully read the law and even pro-abortion voters could agree that a doctor shouldn't get to decide to terminate a living, breathing baby from an abortion complication. I thought Walz struggled on that important issue.
DeleteI wasn’t prepared for that. Vance performed flawlessly. What a polished speaker and debater. I couldn’t help but think how Shapiro would have done against him. We know why she didn’t choose him, BIG MISTAKE.
ReplyDeleteWaltz is the real deal. He stopped that tank in Tiananmen Square. He coached the Packers to consecutive championships. He carried a bazooka in WWI and slayed the Kaiser. He wrestled alligators in a hospital during IVF, then gave birth to his own child. He kept Minneapolis from burning an kept the price of marshmallows stable. He's awesome. We must have him one heartbeat away from the presidency. Vance is a phony who was born to filthy rich parents with a silver spoon in his mouth and never served anywhere.
ReplyDeleteHere’s my take on last nights debate.
ReplyDeleteWalz reminds me of Don Rickles.
HA! The image I got from Walz was the ‘my friendly produce manager down at the IGA.’ Can’t see that working if called upon to sit across the negotiating table with radical Islamists who want to kill us.
DeleteYes but Don was a comedian. This guy wants to be second in command. Oh wait - he is a joke.
DeleteYes! I couldn’t think who he reminded me of but that’s it!
DeleteOn policy, Walz was pretty good but I didn't like his herky jerky body language, his hyped up personality and all his mad note taking. Vance was staying cool and making mental notes to forcefully rebut points with a polite and respectful tone. I still scratch my head at all his "educational" trips to China and I have to hand it to the otherwise biased moderators, they really hung Walz out to dry with his Tiananmen Square claims. I'm sure the inner circle Dems are pissed off about the question.
DeleteVance impressed me. Walz did ok too. Professional most of the time. But the questions were biased. The order to end with Jan 6 was disgusting and took away from the entire debate. Pure politics. Pointless typical biased press. Bernie you're assessment expected too
ReplyDeleteVance did not win, as 3:04 thinks. Vance tried to reconstruct the earlier Trump presidency, as if it was some glorious enlightened time. It wasn’t. And he didn’t hand over the presidency without violence, as Vance recalled. Vance sidestepped most questions and managed to avoid Trumps various lies. But, it’s obvious that Vance would have been a better candidate than Trump, and I hope that reminds us that Trump must be cut loose or Republicans will loose all hope to recover the party.
ReplyDeleteLow inflation, no wars; unlike the shit show we're living in now
DeleteBiden is bad Harris is worse, Waltz is gone
ReplyDeleteThe moderators were biased, particularly Margaret Brennan. The questions were designed to favor Walz. Norah O’Donnell was actually pretty good. The closing statements were telling. Walz said Taylor Swift likes us. Vance said America is the greatest country on earth but she’s hurting right now. We have a plan to fix it. The best part was that they showed each other respect. A breath of fresh air.
ReplyDeleteWaltz misspoke sure he is a liar
ReplyDeleteVance was calm, cool, and very articulate. Waltz seemed like he was about to eat his last meal before the electric chair. But you're right, I appreciated the civility.
ReplyDeleteVance very well could have sealed the deal for trump last night, nothing short of amazing, and looks to be the future of the party, add in waltz he sunk the ship. This election is razor thin most of the swing states 2% or less, with trumps silent majority holding a ton of weight and value, I would be highly concerned if I was in the Harris camp.
ReplyDeleteVance is a creepy weirdo who called Trump Hitler, but now supports him!?!? What a joke! Kamala and Walz 2024!
ReplyDeleteObama: "I need a VP dumber than I." = Biden
ReplyDeleteBiden: "I need a VP dumber than I." = Harris
Harris: "I need a VP dumber than I." = Waltz
Best Waltz line: "I've become friends with school shooters."
The jokes write themselves. PA is now tied in polls. Good thing for Trump that Shapiro was rejected for being smarter than Harris, and pro-Israel Jewish in an increasingly anti-Israel party. James Carville said repeatedly that Shapiro was the candidate of the future and the party was too effeminate. The old coot was right.
With the media in their pocket, Harris should be up by 10 points! She made a huge mistake not picking Shapiro- Waltz is a radical, just like her and a goof!
DeleteDumb, dumber, and dumbest!
DeleteAs a moderate Democrat leaning Harris, I was appalled at the conduct of the moderaters. I counted 4 times they unfairly favored Walz. I watch Margaret Brennan weekly, but she and Rubber Face came across as snarky and one sided. I love how moderater Rubber Face snuck in an editorial remark that 90 % of scientists believe in global warming. Then Brennan challenged Vance to provide evidence to support a certain position. All in all it was way better than the presidential debate and Vance scored points for his calm, gracious and articulate responses, despite Walz having the homefield advantage.
ReplyDeleteAgree 100% With runaway inflation, a broken border, a dockworkers strike, war in the Middle East & Europe, and the 2nd question was about climate change! Vance was calm and articulate, Waltz was all over the place!
DeleteThat's why rubber face is getting canned from CBS anchor desk; shes a back stabber-ask Jeff Glor
DeleteWalz missed his opportunity to call Vance out on his BS. Should have told him "You're a current sitting Senator, you want to do something about immigration, cut those puppet strings from the orange puppeteer and go vote for the bi-partisan immigration bill. That's your job. And Kamala Harris will cast the tie-breaking vote if need be. Also, you might want to go back and look at the tapes of Jan. 6 where Trump told his minions to fight like hell. Sound peaceful to you?"
ReplyDeleteIt is my understanding that the network agreed there would be no fact-checking. I believe it's irresponsible to allow someone to get up there and just lie, but that is what they agreed. Instead of keeping their word, Brennan did fact check Vance about Haitian immigrants and correct his misrepresentation about their status. Then she cut his mike off when he complained.
ReplyDeleteI support Harris. I consider Vance a chameleon who changes colors depending on where he is. But it certainly appears to me that Brennan violated the agreement. Norah O'Donnell may have done so as well, but Brennan was the most blatant.
I can understand why Rs are upset.
In a classical debate, you let people go and fact checking is done by participants. But in this format, where time is so limited, I think it is irresponsible to host a debate and promise that you will not fact check. But it is more irresponsible to break your word.
A chameleon who changes colors? Lol that’s called a politician. Kamala Harris has flipped on every single issue she once supported. So who’s the chameleon?
DeleteShe won’t answer any questions so who the hell knows what she stands for. I do know she has reversed many of her positions…….like a chameleon.
At least Vance does press conferences to address his changing views!!! Give me a break. You're funny Bernie
Delete10:30, Fair enough. As for Vance or Tump and their numerous pressers, better to be quiet and thought a fool than open your mouth and remove all doubt.
DeleteBernie you must be put out to pasture like Biden was --You voted for him now leave with him you support Harris She might make Biden look good
ReplyDeleteInteresting to check Google News Headlines about the debate:
ReplyDeleteThe New York Times: ‘Vance’s Excellent Reviews Will Enrage Trump’:
The Guardian: JD Vance’s slick performance can’t change the danger of another Trump presidency
Slate: I’ll Tell You Exactly What Went Wrong With That Debate
Slate: Vance Won the Debate. Walz Got Something That Might Be Better.
TIME: Vance Outperformed Walz in a Debate Unlikely to Shift the Race
So basically “sure Vance won, but it’s actually good for us.”
Also, to those who want to still insist there’s no media bias---I noticed the distinct lack of the word “knucklehead” from any of the Google News feed. Do you really think that would have been the case if Vance had called himself that instead of Walz? Yeah, think hard.
With the media in the tank for the Dems, she should be cleaning Trump's clock, but she's as authentic as Killary
DeleteIf you consider Vance a chameleon then what is Harris? She must be some sort of shapeshifter considering she's now a fracking supporter, 2nd amendment supporting gun owner and apparently now has different accents when she speaks to different groups of people. The social media algorithm used on your feeds must be a sight to see. You're in a cult though so I guess this makes sense to you.
ReplyDeleteI replied to him he didn’t post it. Not sure why it was respectful and on topic. She’s flipped on every issue she’s ever stood for and Vance is the chameleon? Crazy!
DeleteI agree, 5:50 am. I am incredibly disappointed with our choices, but both VP candidates give me hope that they will do a good job. I’d like to give the nod to Vance, but his affiliation with Trump makes me question his character and integrity.
ReplyDeleteMAYBE someone needs to pick up a thesaurus.
ReplyDeleteVance has done any and all interviews requested. Walz and Harris have not. It showed last night Walz didn’t seem ready to answer the hard questions. It was nice to see civility though. Walz got better as the night wore on be he definitely lost.
ReplyDeleteBoth Vance and Walz outperformed my low expectations. Despite the cheerleaders on here wishcasting for their favorite fella, this was a draw/stalemate IMO. Think Vance hit more singles overall, but Walz collected more extra base hits in the final tally. I don't think the results moved the needle much in terms of swaying anyone one way or the other. Think most people know the VP gig in general is a quiet one when you look at the last 16 years, and outside of Dick Cheney, probably decades further back.
ReplyDeleteVoting for Harris is like the Titanic backing into the iceberg for another hit.
ReplyDeleteLOL you win the internets today!
DeleteAt the end of the day I think this was a wash. I find it hard to believe it changed a lot of minds one way or another. But I did appreciate a civil debate, where actual policy was discussed.
ReplyDeleteDemocrats want it to be a wash but reality Vance will help the ticket
DeleteBernie love your Vance comment that he tried to appear as a reasonable and compassionate person. Could it be he is? And then to walz you said he seemed more sincere besides having to admit to being untruthful. So sincerely lying? So many things could be discussed about the debate it's interesting to hear your take on it. The biggest loser. The press once again failing to be unbiased.
ReplyDeleteVance won the debate- his experience showed since he does at least 1 contentious interview per day, and Waltz hides from them. No questions on Energy, China, Ukraine, trade, etc. but finish on Jan. 6 and cut off Vance's mic. The fix was in, but Vance shined.
ReplyDeleteSurprised so few comments today
ReplyDeleteVance had a great debate. Now here comes Jack Smith, hold my beer Tim let me help you out. The corruption runs deep.
ReplyDeleteI thought Jack Smith was out as not officially able to do this
Delete1 of many October surprises
DeleteAnd along comes Jack Smith- again! Talk about a threat to democracy
ReplyDeleteJack Smith is just reminding everyone that Trump isn't a quality human being and simply not fit to be a leader of the American people.
ReplyDeleteVote your pocketbook Trump only choice.
ReplyDeleteMyorkas said FEMA blew 640 million on migrants. No money for the rest of hurricane season. Zelensky just walked away with billions. How bout taking care of the victims of Helene? This is outrageous!
ReplyDeleteVote for policy. Vote for Trump. Today we hear our poor fellow Americans devasted by hurricane and FEMA out of money as some spent on illegal immigrants. What is wrong with this picture. How can anyone in this country think that's ok??? They are without power and supplies and roads and some are still praying loved ones are alive. And another hurricane on its way. And they get sorry we spent millions on immigrants and are out of money?? As taxpayers how do we think this is not irresponsible?
ReplyDeleteTrump 4 years JD 8 years
ReplyDeleteThe International Association of Firefighters will not be endorsing a candidate. They were big Biden supporters, one of the first unions to endorse him.
ReplyDeleteYour administration did it again no money for the hurricane people it all went to illegal people whoever votes foe democrats are crazy the democrats do everything wrong and bad for America.
ReplyDeleteYou can't get pulled out of the gutter until we are finally rid of the Cheeto Felon Rapist
ReplyDelete