According to
The Patriot News, 1,289 communities statewide have abdicated their obligation to provide for public safety and instead rely exclusively on Pennsylvania State Police. It costs $234 per person to provide this service, which is well below the $25 per capita fee proposed by Governor Tom Wolf. Lower Macungie Township is identified as the
sixth largest consumer of Pennsylvania State Police services statewide. There were 5,200 calls in 2015 in a community of 31,639. Under Governor Wolf's plan, the Township will have to pay $790,975 for police services that actually cost considerably more.
Low-income Allentown residents end up paying for police coverage in the 'burbs.
The
PSP 2015 call volume in other Lehigh Valley communities is as follows:
Lehigh County - Hanover - 2,521; Heidelberg - 492; Lower Milford - 425; Lowhill - 354; Lynn - 717; North Whitehall -2,469; Upper Milford, Washington - 989; and Weisenberg - 983.
Northampton County - Allen, East Allen - 965; Glendon - 179; Lower Mt Bethel - 938; Upper Mt Bethel -992; West Easton - 231; and Williams - 2,120.
Numbers for Chapman are unavailable.
The good citizens and fine Republican tea party folk of Lower Mac, love their no real estate tax status.
ReplyDeletewhy should they dip into their country club fund when thy can be subsidized by the rest go the state. It is complete and total bullshit. Yet here we are.
Isn't it funny that some kinds of socialism are just fine with the right wing golfers of Lower Mac. I mean why not stop the state police coverage and let the open market fix the problem of policing, right?lol
This is why more than $800M of the state gas tax is used to pay the state police instead of the intended purpose of repairing roads and bridges.
ReplyDeleteHarrisburg has a plan to reduce this diversion of funds. Hopefully they stick to it and the citizens of the Commonwealth will see significant improvement in their infrastructure.
Where do the citizens of Lower Macungie rank in state income taxes paid?
ReplyDeleteKudos for 2:59. The rest of the state who has to pay for police protection gets screwed. If we all drop our local police protection and demand State Police coverage, PSP couldn't handle the calls for service and the fiscal demands would be absurd. But the scumbags in Lower Macungie Township, the third largest municipality in the Lehigh Valley and who blatantly state "we would be nuts to change the policing concept in LMT", sit back and laugh at the rest of us while they build their new retail establishments and purchase the rights to a golf course so development cannot effect their serenity. Watch the gutless state representatives on this issue!
ReplyDelete"Isn't it funny that some kinds of socialism are just fine with the right wing golfers of Lower Mac. I mean why not stop the state police coverage and let the open market fix the problem of policing, right?lol"
ReplyDeleteGood question. But a solid monetarist conservative will always take advantage of the rules until they are changed. Why do liberals take tax deductions, instead of just paying up to support the spending they like? Why are PA Turnpike tolls used to subsidize SEPTA? Toll payers throughout the state pay for Philly's horribly managed bus and train set. Government schemes usually distort market economics. So let's do away with the government scheme. On that point, we completely agree.
This is a good story. The big question is this: Is the service better if you have state police coverage? From what I see in newspaper reports there is sustantial crime reporting in this township. Would that change if there is local police protection? When it comes to police service, consolidation, bigger and regional do not necessarily guarantee better protection.
ReplyDeleteThis long over due. Move the Barracks and pay for your own school resource officers. This is HIGHWAY ROBBERY, yes that pun is intended. Defer Legislative Per Diems until this is passed. There should be NO downward negotiations on this. It should not be used as a pawn during the budget.
ReplyDeleteYes this is highway robbery....taking funding dollars away from our highway and bridge projects.
ReplyDeleteif you van afford a 12,000 sq ft house, you can afford to fund a local police department and a local fire department with actual paid professional workers with pensions and health care. stop making me pay for your lifestyle
ReplyDeleteMaybe they should just apply for a Federal Grant.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.allentownpa.gov/Home/News-Archive/ID/252/City-Awarded-625000-COPS-Grant
That's free, isn't it?
And the COPs grant, which is temporary and funds a few officers, is a justification for sticking it to low-income residents elsewhere and forcing them to pay for your PSP coverage?
ReplyDeleteGov. Wolf should increase his proposal to $100.00 per person in a township/municipality that does not have their own or regional police department. This constant drain of funding for our roads & bridges to fund the PA State Police is ludicrous. The communities in the Lehigh Valley that rely on State Police coverage definitely can afford their own police department. But as long as they can get coverage paid by others they are going to sit back and do nothing to change.
ReplyDelete12:50
ReplyDeleteI don't live in LMT. Facts don't depend on residence.
Just pointing out that government funds go a lot of places.
It would be an interesting exercise to do a net benefits analysis for Allentown and LMT. Add up income taxes, subtract government grants and other assistance (include funding and usage of LANTA) and what do you get?
For that matter, who pays more per capita in gasoline taxes?
Agree. Let's go all the way down the rabbit hole and determine which municipalities are net givers and net takers. Then, we can commence an intrastate civil war.
ReplyDeleteThere is an inherent unfairness i requiring low income residents of the cities and aging boroughs to pay for the false alarm calls to gated communities in the 'burbs. And if you did a cost- benefit analysis, it will reveal that it is those low-income residents who pay for the roads you drive to escape the poor people. You will pay the politicians to preserve the status quo.
ReplyDeleteLMT, a municipality of 31,000 pays about $36 M a year in state income tax.
ReplyDeleteBased on state data that shows $1.67 B in taxable income, Allentown, which has almost 4 times as many people pays about $51 M.
If I've done my math right, that's about 3 times more for LMT on a per capita basis.
I know it's easier to decide what's "fair" without facts, but sometimes they are worthwhile to have in front of you.
http://www.govtech.com/em/safety/Proposed-state-police-fee-generates-mixed-reactions.html
http://www.revenue.pa.gov/GeneralTaxInformation/News%20and%20Statistics/Documents/School%20Dist%20Income%20Stats/Totals/2014_pit_stats_sd_totals.xlsx
Ya know I wouldn't mind paying my fair share for police if I wasn't charged almost 2% by Easton because of mismanagement of THEIR police force. So because I work in Easton and live in allen township I should pay TWICE? I cant even vote to change the people who put in the tax in place. I would love regionalizing a force between Allen and East Allen. I hate the fact the state police takes ages to respond. I wouldn't mind paying 1.95% in earned income if the money went to my own area. But its not.... I'm paying for EASTON. Like everything, there is a lot more at play here than most understand.
ReplyDeleteJust read in the paper a couple days ago that the Twp. Mgr. also wants Lehigh County to pay for their roadwork now.
ReplyDeleteIt never ends with these guys.
3:36 Do you have a link?
ReplyDeleteOtherwise I might have to conclude that you're referencing a county-wide registration fee that is proposed to be distributed throughout the county.
Bernie,
ReplyDeleteChapman contracts with Moore Township for police coverage last I heard. Previously they had a contract with CRPD.
Hank_Hill
Love the tea bag deflections going on here. Trey go down rabbit hole after rabbit hole to prove it is not only fair but just that they sponge off of others and do in fact support a self-serving form of socialism.
ReplyDeleteAs to comparing numbers, is the point that poor folks should pay more because they don't make as much? In your Ayn Rand world view because you have more disposable income you have every right to demand that poorer folks pay for your police coverage.
Stop playing analytical games and pop your head out of the echo chamber and start thinking like a citizen of a civilized society.
I doubt most of the low income residents in the city of Allentown pay many, if any taxes. More then likely they are taking from the hard working tax payers of the "burbs" and other communities outside of the city. While I agree that a township the size of Lower Macungie can and should fund and have their own police dept., following the bloggers own premise why should the lower income residents of the "burbs", particularly rural low population areas be forced to pay to keep services funded in Philly, Pittsburgh, Allentown, and the other large urban centers?
ReplyDeleteOnce again lets divide the people by groups and pit them against each other. Seems to be the standard operating procedure these days.
That's what you want. There is little doubt in my mind that the income tax revenue generated by the low-income Allentown residents vastly exceeds Lower Macungie and every other suburban community, And those taxes help pay for the state roads to get you home as well as your state police protection. But I understand. They are only poor people.
ReplyDeleteHank, I was actually joking about Chapman,and should have made that more clear.
ReplyDeleteSome here write of 'unfairness'. I might suggest that the real 'unfairness' is the fact that most in the suburbs are paying damn near 50% of total income on taxes of all sorts; while the saints in the cities get tax refunds (EITC) for taxes they never paid. If we take out the retail 'crime' from Walmart and other stores in LMT we will find relatively little reported crimes.
ReplyDeleteIf we are straining the State Police I suggest they stop hiding on Country Club road hoping to find someone doing 35 mph in a 25 mph zone. One moving violation is damn near equal to the proposed 'fee' that many call for.
Also, do not assume LMT residents are rolling on dough. Many, perhaps most, are seniors who have lived there for decades and are fixed incomes. Enough with this liberal jealousy.
Is it true that municipalities that rely on PSP get to keep half of fines generated? I sure PSP will love the retail calls.
ReplyDeleteIs it true that municipalities that rely on PSP get to keep half of fines generated?
ReplyDeleteUsed to be so. That is no longer the case.
@ 2:59. We have a real estate tax.
ReplyDelete@10:40 I do not believe we would see a measurable decrease in crime with a local or regional police force. I think the state police do an excellent job.
Bernie.. of the 30+ distinct neighborhoods and subdivisions in LMT after a quick calculation I'm estimating about .9% (<300) of our 32,000 residents (I'm estimating generously) live in gated communities. (we have two) In fact, I'd say of the large suburban communities in the Lehigh Valley Lower Mac probably offers the widest variety of housing options. Including very affordable communities. That includes 3 old line unincorporated villages, (East Texas, Wescosville, Brookville) multiple mobile home communities and the complete range of housing options from townhomes/multifamily to estates. We are very diverse.
With the state police issue, I've commented here and written about it on my own blog many times. No, it probably isn't fair to not be charged for state police especially when it means siphoning off gas tax money from where it was intended. I hate the idea of gas tax money going to anything but road MAINTENANCE. (not expansion) Again, that is something the state allows us to do. So the problem is with your state legislators. Take it up with them. As long as we can use the state police and continue to get excellent coverage from them we'd be crazy not to. PSP does an excellent job. And they want to be in our community. "We are your local police".
Someone above mentioned the County registration fee proposal. Our manager is doing his job by advocating for it. As a County tax payer I'm not sure if I agree with the principle. I don't like any program where we send money to another level of government only to have to be forced to go to them hat in hand and beg for a return. . . I think Northampton got it right by rejecting the fee. They are financially stronger because of it. And I don't love that Lehigh County is attempting to pass the same registration increase by essentially bribing the municipalities . . with our own money. I'm still learning about the proposal. But that's my initial reaction.
5:28
ReplyDeleteApparently, your infatuation with vulgar sexual acts has hindered your ability to read and reason clearly. Who has said anything about whether poor people should pay more? We are talking about what the data actually show, which is that they pay far less. Whether the should or shouldn't is a value judgement not based on facts, but on ideology. The point is that LMT pays more than enough in taxes to offset any benefits they get from the state. The point of this post was that LMT wasn't paying its way or that poor people were paying for LMT's services. If you want to turn it into some "fair share" argument rather than whether LMT is paying their way, I suggest you get your mind out of the bagging hole and actually try to make a cogent argument.
Bernie @8:54, it would be nice if you would provide statistics to back up your claim that "the income tax revenue generated by the low-income Allentown residents vastly exceeds Lower Macungie and every other suburban community."
The data show that per capita income taxes in the surrounding townships far exceeds that paid by Allentown residents, even without considering things like tax forgiveness. The combined population of surrounding townships exceeds that of Allentown. This isn't advanced calculus.
If you have other data, show it.
And as with most issues... we're spending all our time arguing about bandaids rather than attacking the cause. With transportation spending it's pretty simple.
ReplyDeleteIn Pennsylvania, we spend more money annually on road expansion than we do on road maintenance. This would be like building an addition to your house when you have a leaky roof. This is the issue boiled down to the core of it.
11:18, I'd be interested in what the data show. I've seen no link from you. Frankly, I think the tax revenue collected in Allentown is likely in excess of Lower Mac. Please prove me wrong. I can take it.
ReplyDelete"Bernie.. of the 30+ distinct neighborhoods and subdivisions in LMT after a quick calculation I'm estimating about .9% (<300) of our 32,000 residents (I'm estimating generously) live in gated communities. (we have two)"
ReplyDeleteAgreed, Ron,but it sounded good! All kidding aside, there is a bit of classism going on here. You know where I stand. If you have no police force, you have failed in your basic role as a community and should be dissolved and annexed by another local government.
"This isn't advanced calculus."
ReplyDeleteNo its greed. The posh set love to play analytical games when it suits them but if they can suck at mother governments tit they jump to the chance, while condemning the practice between gulps. Please don't make me take your charity, please!
When they foisted the Trumper on us they said don't judge him by the words he uses rather by what he means. Putting the mind reading aside for the moment. Thais is the hypocrisy of the country club golf set.
They condemn those of use who argue state police coverage paid by me is a form of socialism. They condemn us as using "class division" arguments. Then they proceed to denigrate inner city and town folks as not paying their share since they don't make as much money.
The teaparty Republicans are just what they are. They are a form of peter pan adults who have ended up on third base and think they hit a triple. They use the new "alt-right" fact machine and their number crunching to prove their superiority, all the while not wanting people to see that they are sponging off everybody by not having their own police. Since I never drive through lower Macungie twp., I want my road gas tax proportionally returned to me. Paying it is socialism. Also I don't want to smell their crap so I want my air cordoned off. If you think I am being unreasonable, all I can say is do the math and check the data.
"Apparently, your infatuation with vulgar sexual acts has hindered your ability to read and reason clearly."
ReplyDeleteWho are you to tell people what is a vulgar sexual act? You are so use to the wait staff at the country club pretending to like you, you have lost touch with reality. Fact is you named your little party after the act, so what exactly is in your subconscious sexually???
Data on income tax paid is shown in the comment at 2:32 PM. Income taxes paid by residents of the Allentown School District are no more than $51M---probably less once you consider tax forgiveness. LMT alone, with far fewer people pays $36M. Add in all the other townships and it would be hard to believe that "low-income people in Allentown" pay income taxes far in excess of those paid by the Townships.
ReplyDeleteThat demonstrates that Allentown pays approximately 30% more in income taxes than Lower Mac and appears to refute your argument.
ReplyDeleteThese "L.M. folks" despise people in the cities and boroughs. They see themselves as superior and all their comments here, are a showcase of their superior attitude. They love to point out their analytical and data skills. I guess they don't realize that some of we peons are well aware of how numbers and data can be manipulated to prove just about any point.
ReplyDeleteWhat a bunch of clueless snobs. They can't even detect it in themselves.
Lower Macungie needs its own police force. With its explosive growth in retail and other development it champions to make itself a more sustainable community, what comes with that is crime and the need for a local police presence. Suckling off the State Taxpayers in relatively poor places like Allentown, Bethlehem, Slatington, Walnutport and so on is grossly unfair and arguably unjust. Ron Beitler is too new to the scene and very green. While his political paradigm regarding the form of growth is admirable, his lack of public administration knowledge and experience shows. As he matures in politics, his public administration knowledge will grow. It is time for explosive growth communities like Lower Macungie to either pay its fair share through reasonable fees to the State or hire its own local police. PS: Its amazing how Upper Macungie, South Whitehall, Salisbury, Whitehall can all have relatively low affordable local taxes while providing super quality local police services!
ReplyDeleteBernie @3:15 AM
ReplyDelete"...appears to refute your point."
How so? My point involves your claim about "low-income" Allentown taxpayers.
In view of PA' low income tax forgiveness policy, is it tenable that most of Allentown's PA income tax is paid by "low-income" earners? Residents of the West End would be surprised to hear that.
John M
"is it tenable"
ReplyDeleteIs it tenable you are wrong. Stop playing games with semantics, you are not that sharp! Tenable is not exact science.
Definition of tenable
ReplyDelete1. able to be maintained or defended against attack or objection.
"such a simplistic approach is no longer tenable"
synonyms: defensible, justifiable, supportable, sustainable, arguable, able to hold water, reasonable, sensible, rational, sound, viable, plausible, credible, believable, conceivable
People who don't have disdain for analysis tend to be able to extrapolate.
You could always dig up the numbers yourself.
I'm a sophist and you're not. Look at me. Is it tenable that some love to extrapolate on issues merely to be extrapolative? One could argument as much.
ReplyDeleteThe socialism of the elite is only tenable when one does not extrapolate on the meaning of socialism.
See, you learned some new words today.
ReplyDeleteYou're welcome.
The socializing effect of language is inherent in all human beings. The idea of knowledge is not only rooted in common language but in the very idea of socialism as a civilizing effect on mankind.
ReplyDeleteThe data proves it.
All good comments on the subject matter at hand.
ReplyDeleteThink of this also, it is a election year and there is no competition in a municipality of 30k, That is the real crime.
Cannot complain if you do not do something about it.
No competition sends a message that everyone is happy with the status quoi.