Here's my take. Unless you sat through the trial, it's really hard to know whether justice was done. From my very limited perspective as an outsider, it seems to me that the system worked as intended.
Today's one-liner: "The shortest way to the distinguishing excellence of any writer is through his hostile critics." Richard LeGallienne
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Monday, July 15, 2013
Is the Zimmerman Verdict Fair?
NAACP leader Esther Lee, who certainly seems to hate white people, naturally thinks the Zimmerman verdict is unfair. No surprise there. She apparently wanted a lynch mob, precisely the sort of thing that happened to blacks with great frequency not all that long ago.
50 comments:
You own views are appreciated, especially if they differ from mine. But remember, commenting is a privilege, not a right. I will delete personal attacks or off-topic remarks at my discretion. Comments that play into the tribalism that has consumed this nation will be declined. So will comments alleging voter fraud unless backed up by concrete evidence. If you attack someone personally, I expect you to identify yourself. I will delete criticisms of my comment policy, vulgarities, cut-and-paste jobs from other sources and any suggestion of violence towards anyone. I will also delete sweeping generalizations about mainstream parties or ideologies, i.e. identity politics. My decisions on these matters are made on a case by case basis, and may be affected by my mood that day, my access to the blog at the time the comment was made or other information that isn’t readily apparent.
Given the Florida, "Stand your ground" law, the verdict appears fair. It was a jury trail and the verdict was rendered.
ReplyDeleteHaving said that, in typical Florida fashion the case should never had been prosecuted. All the lib-labs are going nuts but at the end of the day the DA caved to public pressure and sought a conviction in a case even Morgannelli said he wouldn't have prosecuted.
The only things the Feds can do is review police procedure regarding denying civil rights in their investigation but Zimmerman had his day in court and it is over. People can piss and moan that they didn't get the verdict they wanted but the race of the victim is irrelevant the law is at the center of the debate. In a stand your ground situation the prosecution failed to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman did not act in his own defense. You are allowed to walk, you are allowed to talk but you are not allowed to physically attack. Who physically attacked whom first? I don't know and neither do you. The jury heard the case and whether they believe Zimmerman or not, they didn't feel the prosecutors proved their case.
Florida, if you don't want things like this to happen don't elect idiots who pass stupid laws.
Pretty simple really.
It is time we tell it like it is. sther Lee is probably the biggest BIGOT in the Lehigh Valley. She ran as a democrat for city coucnil (bethlehem) and when she lost, she blamed ole whitey for being against blacks. Her campaign was racist and she got the vote she deserved. She is not fit to hold public office and she has stopped trying. Why is it we can elect other Black candidates but we can't elect Esther Lee? She is a bigot. plain and simple. Who cares what she thinks. She doesn't count. Any other minority who may voice their opinion on this issue may have some credibility. Esther Lee has NONE.
ReplyDeleteTo 12:36, she also switched parties and ran as a
ReplyDeleteRepublican. In fac,t she may still be a Republican. I realize that thwarts your backhanded insult of Democrats but sometimes the facts are the facts.
12:56,
ReplyDeletewhatever party ester belongs to she is still a bigot. Her opinion has no stature except to her and her increasingly smaller group.
Zimmerman got a fair trial by his peers therefore the system worked. Only he knows id he is truly innocent.
Esther Lee will never change. Its best to just ignore her. 12:36 AM is correct -- she is probably the biggest BIGOT in the Lehigh Valley.
ReplyDeleteThe NAACP chapters should worried about the health of their membership base. Issues like real education personal responsibility,illegitimate birth rates. Why are they not wolfing about 4th of July weekend in DETROIT,wow what a party town. Diabetes alone will kill of 20% of the woman ,what do they say about this? They should shift from race based agenda to "good citizen agenda".
ReplyDeleteJust a kid with skittles and fruit punch and pot inhis system whose facebook and twitter postings bragged of drug dealing, drug use and a gun purchase - including photo with gun:
ReplyDeletettps://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=lean%20purple%20juice&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&ved=0CDQQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FPurple_drank&ei=mtLjUYzLLM-44AP7pIDYCQ&usg=AFQjCNGR2K2CYE3K6LNu8wVO0VwiN6UWnw&bvm=bv.48705608,d.dmg
Bernie
ReplyDeleteDoesn't it seem that these six women from all walks of life cared about their civic duty and devoted endless hours to this case? Are we to assume all six women are bias? They followed the directive of the law.
The problem is the stand your ground law itself. Shoot first should never be an option. Shooting someone should be a last resort.
ReplyDeleteSeveral have remarked here that this outcome is due to Florida's "stand your ground" laws.
ReplyDeleteI believe "stand your ground" did not enter into this, just self-defense.
I agree with the jury. I think Zimmerman likely got away with a crime, but given the unique aspects of the case there had to be plenty of reasonable doubt. The State had a weak case and should not have been pressured by Obama and Eric Holder to go after him for homocide. The State should have went after him for lesser, provable charges from the beginning.
ReplyDeleteStand Your Ground was not a factor in this case. It was strictly self-defense. Best to understand the case before making incorrect comments. It would have taken two minutes to look this up.
ReplyDeleteI can't understand why you say 'Esther Lee certainly seems to hate white people?' Nothing in the article you linked seemed to suggest that.
ReplyDeleteIs killing an unarmed man self defense?
ReplyDeleteLVBN, I attended a pre-Independence Day news conference in which Esther Lee made more than enough anti-white remarks to justify that conclusion. That is the article I had meant to link. While she is good for great quotes, she is divisive.
ReplyDeletehttp://lehighvalleyramblings.blogspot.com/2013/07/independence-day-for-some.html
"Is killing an unarmed man self defense?"
ReplyDeleteIf he has you down on the ground, is beating you and is trying to take your gun, you betcha'.
"The State had a weak case and should not have been pressured by Obama and Eric Holder to go after him for homocide"
ReplyDeleteI did not see the trial, and will defer to those who did. It was, in my opinion, a political prosecution. The police had already made the right call, but the president had to get involved.
"The problem is the stand your ground law itself."
ReplyDeleteI don't think "stand your ground" has much to do with this. At least not from what I've read. He was more or less on his back.
"Doesn't it seem that these six women from all walks of life cared about their civic duty and devoted endless hours to this case? Are we to assume all six women are bias? They followed the directive of the law. "
ReplyDeleteI agree completely. Other than bits and pieces, I saw very little of the trial. It looked to me that Zimmerman had a very good attorney and a fair judge who did her job well. The prosecution had a tough case.
http://patterico.com/2013/07/14/zimmerman-acquittal-the-fringe-left-reacts-with-threats-to-kill-zimmerman/
ReplyDeleteWonder if the DOJ will give a shit about any of this.
-Clem
"The NAACP chapters should worried about the health of their membership base."
ReplyDeleteExcellent point, Peter. At that pre-Independence Day rally, I saw one face that might have been under 50.
In some ways, that might be a positive sign. It could be that younger blacks no longer think they need a NAACP bc there is not as much discrimination as in years past. Or it could just be that the issue was not hot enough to fire up the base.
Clem, Zimmerman will have to look over his shoulder so long as he lives.
ReplyDeleteCorrect. But why? The media, and the president, made this about race. Illiterate multi-millionare athletes "completely confused by the verdict" and calling for everything from revenge on Zimmerman to "Free Aaron Hernandez" because their understanding is the soundbite they got from CNN.
ReplyDeleteI won't overload you with links, but another more recent post there shows just what NBC did to stoke the race war. Then CNN labeling Zimmerman a "White Hispanic". Then Obama with his "If I had a son" bullshit without knowing any of the facts of the case. I followed the case pretty closely, have read the transcripts of the 911 calls and the testimony of the police and the experts, and learned about the special prosecutor. This case would never have gone to trial, except for the politics of race.
As for the FL Stand-Your-Ground law, it was never a part of the defense and is totally irrelevant to the case or subsequent discussion. Yet, that is what you hear the barbie and ken doll TV anchors talking about. Never has there been a more clear example of sophistry, bias and selfishness. The selfishness part is, of course, that stirring racial tensions is what gets ratings, generates pageviews and sells papers.
-Clem
Unfortunately, Clem, I agree with you pretty much 100% on this one. The death is a tragedy. I will not make the mistake of vilifying the victim, as some others have. And I did not watch the trial. But everything I have read leads me to agree with your conclusions.
ReplyDeleteSeems reasonable difficult to call a jury's decision racist when 5 of the 6 jurors were black. Race never should have entered into the equation. Trials should concern the law, not race.
ReplyDeletereasonably not reasonable
ReplyDeleteWhen is the NAAWP being formed!! I agree 100% with Bernie on this one. Obama has done nothing but eliminate the middle class, created jobs that mostly pay $10/hr and under so that people will be forced to remain on the govt teat and therefore keep voting and supporting his ludicrous ideas. Obamacare will collapse on itself when people decide, individually, to pay the fines instead of the outrageous monthly costs....the only people on the plan will be people that are sick and need benefits or those that get them for free (google "obamacare death spiral"). I could go on and on but I wont. Sorry to thread crap, but I LOVE AMERICA and this happened to be at the top of my mind, how its being ruined by one man that has his own agenda both politically (zimmerman) and personally (obamacare, he loves that its named after him, he calls it "endearing")
ReplyDelete12:03 You are incorrect about the jury race make up. 5 of the 6 jurists were WHITE and one was a minority, possibly Hispanic.
ReplyDeleteAgain, this was not and should not have been about race. Lady Justice is blind and the weight of the facts did not tip the scales of justice beyond reasonable doubt in this case. The jury was blind to all but the facts. Not only were they blind, they had to be deaf to all the political and racist noise that pushed this case.
OJ was found not guilty by an all black jury. A jury of his peers would have contained narcissistic white golfers.
ReplyDeleteThis trial was three weeks long. There was too much emphasis on non convincing testimony The prosecution simply did not prove their case.
ReplyDeleteLots of people get acquitted that would have been found guilty if the prosecution had the evidence and presented it effectively.
If race is an issue in this case there are thousands of cases involving race that don't get this level of attention. The case was simply too weak to prove race.
And I believe if this was one of your kids You assholes would be singing a different tune....
ReplyDeleteIf one of my kids was a pot smoking, purple drank drinking, drug dealing, gun-toting thug with a record of violence, I'd have only myself to blame and wouldn't be surprised at his tragic killing at far too young an age, given his lifestyle. His death is a tragedy. The politicization by the President is a travesty.
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ReplyDeleteHey 12:37, yeah Obama has screwed over the American middle class staring in the 1980's. Yeah, that's the ticket, matey. Was all part of that Communist Muslim conspiracy hatched in Kenya decades ago.
ReplyDeleteHas nothing to do with obscene corporate profits and cheap outsourced third world labor labor.
!@:37, makes a great point. Hopefully the public option will eventually take over our healthcare.
ReplyDeletethen medical professionals will be paid on the quality of care and not the quantity of care. of course that means they will bE more concerned with you not getting heart disease in The first place. That as opposed to now making millions giving you countless heart operations after the damage is done.
Yes. hopefully it won't be long before America joins the rest of the democracies and the industrialized world and has quality healthcare. We may even move up from the 35th healthiest nation to possibly close to the top ten.
Teabaggers can make a great point every now and then.
I have deleted three comments posted by Rolf Oeler, aka Iron Pig pen. I have repeatedly told him his comments here are unwelcome. He adds nothing to any dialogue, insults readers, and I don't want him here.
ReplyDelete"The politicization by the President is a travesty. "
ReplyDeleteI think he'd like a do over on that one.
"if this was one of your kids You assholes would be singing a different tune."
ReplyDeleteWhat happened to the young man is tragic. Nobody wanted that. If this was my own child, I could not be expected to be rational. But looking at this rationally, as we should try to do, I do not see why race is even an issue.
The DOJ is not that anymore. This should be over,I AGREE WITH POSTER 6;48 AND THE U.S.Government is in effect violating our Constitution relating to a fair trial. CNN is still this hour "PUSHING" and They will have blood on their hands before this is over. This business of the Feds intervening in this case is an 'abortion'of this defendants Constitutional rights. Substitute what CNN say's and add O.J.Simpson instead of Zimmerman and see if it fits.
ReplyDeleteI would not have found him guilty of murder, but manslaughter seemed appropriate. I think the DA should never have tried to make a murder case out of it.
ReplyDeleteFor those that feel manslaughter would hve been the correct verdict-- consider this...
ReplyDeleteYour on the ground and someone is banging your head against a rock swinging at your in mixed martial art fashion and attempting to take your gun away from you.
Just what are your too do?
Answer hope the perp is not a minority. Had this been white on whit, black on black or whatever there would have been no trial. The racial aspect of this is the pursuit of "justice for trayvon" seemingly only because the dead man is black.
The defense team was denied exculpatory evidence, and the evidence which they received was delayed after having to be fought for. This was a politically motivated prosecution. Google liberal-libertarian Alan Deshowitz's comments. He's called for the disbarment of the entire prosecution team and FL AG. We're a country of laws and these stewards flaunted and violated a sacred system.
ReplyDelete""The politicization by the President is a travesty. "
ReplyDeleteI think he'd like a do over on that one."
.......
Sadly, Bernie, you couldn't be more wrong. The President DID get a do-over today and doubled down, via Eric Holder's speech at Howard University. The President is no better than Al Sharpton. And an AG undermining a jury decision made after a month long trial featuring over 100 witnesses. Don West has defended some of society's least able in his remarkable career and called the prosecution of Zimmerman a disgrace. He's also pursuing sanctions against the state for withholding exculpatory evidence.
"Google liberal-libertarian Alan Deshowitz's comments. He's called for the disbarment of the entire prosecution team and FL AG."
ReplyDeleteThe only people who seem to use Dershowitz are the media. In court, he sucks. I'd agree this is a case that should not have been filed. The police had made that decision, and i believe the Governor got involved, if memory serves. But when morons like dershowitz start calling for disbarment, he is just trying to get headlines while helping no one.
I know Don West. Good guy.
ReplyDeleteCurious what you think of Don West's treatment by Judge Chris Farley? I though she was a tyrant.
ReplyDeleteI am sorry but I did not watch the trial. I only saw about one minute.
ReplyDeleteFrom what I've seen on TV and read: Did Zimmerman overstep his bounds by following/harrasing Martin? I believe he did.
ReplyDeleteThe question you have to ask next is: did Zimmerman deserve to die because of the following/harrasing? If the answer is no, then the verdict was justifiable.