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| Steve Samuelson, Joe Brennan, Bob Freeman all vote No. |
Locally, two State Reps. have condemned this legislation. Joe Brennan (D-Lehigh/Northampton) calls it a "terrible bill intended to disenfranchise and suppress our Pennsylvania citizens from being a part of the democratic process." Bob Freeman (D - Northampton) adds that the legislation is "unnecessary," and worries that "the group of people most hurt by this legislation will be our senior citizens."
Freeman points to an 86-year-old World War II veteran from Aurora, Ohio, who was prevented from voting earlier this month because of Ohio's new photo voter ID law. He did not have a driver's license and his veteran's ID was not acceptable.
"That story will be replicated here in Pennsylvania over and over again," predicts Freeman. "Shame on those who support this legislation if it puts veterans in that position so they cannot cast a ballot -- they who defended this country, and that's what this legislation would do."
Brennan points out that the League of Women Voters, AARP and the County Commissioners Association of Pennsylvania all opposed this legislation, which will cost from $4.3 million to $11 million. Brennan added that there likely will be additional costs to defend the legislation in court. A judge in Wisconsin has struck down that state's voter identification after a legal challenge. The U.S. Justice Department blocked South Carolina's voter ID bill in December and has stepped in to block Texas’ voter ID law.
"This bill is nothing more than a waste of taxpayer dollars attempting to fix a problem that doesn't even exist," Brennan said. "Voter ID is a waste of time and taxpayer money when we should be focused on jobs and the economy."
During the House debate, Republicans downplayed the ID requirement, noting correctly that we must produce IDs for cigarettes, beer, or even to get into our gym.
What's the big deal?
Feisty Philly State Rep Babette Josephs answers the "What's the big deal?" argument in the video clip below. "Nobody dies to swim in a pool, no matter how good he or she was at swimming. Nobody died to buy a pack of smokes. Nobody died for the right to buy a drink. Nobody died for the right to open a credit account or a bank account. We have died - we are dying now - for the right to vote. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the big deal."
Well said, Babette. Well said.
You ought to read up a little on that Wisconsin judge. He in heep big pile of shit right now.
ReplyDeleteBabs is right. If I don't need ID to vote, I shouldn't need it for anything else.
-Clem
Bernie , how did the local legislators vote ?
ReplyDeleteRight along party lines locally. All the Ds voted No. All the Rs voted yes.
ReplyDeletehttp://patterico.com/2012/03/07/lefty-wisconsin-judge-rejects-voter-id-law-in-scott-walker-recall-election/
ReplyDeleteFound it.
-Clem
Bernie,
ReplyDeleteI am usually conservative, however on this one, I believe this is a solution, looking for a problem!
It's hard enough to get the usual 30% to vote.
Agreed.
ReplyDeleteOnly got through the first paragraph and HAD to comment. The "sweeping changes to health insurance" DID NOT give "birth to the tea party." The national version of the Tea Party organized in after a February 2009 rant by CNBC's Rick Santelli against the a recently announced mortgage refinancing plan. It was mostly in response to TARP, the mortgage plan, and the stimulus. Health Care reform didn't get truly heated until August 2009.
ReplyDeleteIn conclusion, Health Care Reform did not give birth to the Tea Party.
freeman has a lot of nerve. the mute rubber stamp has been stealing his salary for years. he wants illegals to vote. period. he's the single best argument for term limits and a smaller legislature. he couldn't find a private sector job if he took both hands off his pud for once. he's absolutely unemployable - like the unregistered he wants to vote.
ReplyDeleteTo me this is clear voter disenfranchisement. Disappointed in the General Assembly and our Governor. Not sure that this Law will stand, but am 100% positive that it will cost taxpayers millions in the costs of the lawsuits.
ReplyDeleteBernie,
ReplyDeleteIn France you have to have a special I.D. card to vote, a card electoral. You have to apply for the card with real I.D. What a bunch of right wing haters.
Scott Armstrong
Comment to Scott,
ReplyDeleteI had to comment, This is the Land of the FREE and the HOME of the BRAVE.
This why the UNITED STATES stands out from the rest of the world. Citizens of FRANCE, GERMANY, ENGLAND, Italy, EASTERN EUROPE,and the ORIENT, etc, came here. For FREEDOM, If you like France, "GO THERE" !!!
The VA Card should be acceptible. It is in most places. My 93 year old mothr who never drove got one (photo ID) it should be on the voter reg cards and on medicare as well. Problem solved. You can get photo ID free through PENNDOT at a local photo lcense center,
ReplyDeleteEasy for you to say but what if the person can't drive and does not live near a penn dott photo id center, then what? I am supposed to "bother" someone to give me a ride so I can get a picture so I can vote for the people that lie and change their minds and do this to me? This is supposed to be America not USSR or Nazi Germany where you must "show your papers" wherever you go
ReplyDeleteBernie,
ReplyDeleteThe loss of Freedom begins slowly with "what's the big deal"
Then it evolves into "show me your papers", "Whats the big deal"
In Germany in the 1930's, they passed numerous Laws against their Jewish Citizens, I'm sure someone made the statement "whats the big deal"
" Is this enough said"
"In conclusion, Health Care Reform did not give birth to the Tea Party."
ReplyDeleteYou may very well be right. According to Wikipedia, it was first formed in response to obesity laws proposed in NY. I believe the health care overhaul is what really gave the movement its life. Without a House intent on passing supposed health care reform, would such a group began appearing at Congressional town halls?
6:50, If there were some real evidence that there was rampant abuse making this necessary, I could see it. Just yesterday, some of my Republican friends insisted that many Dems casting votes are not who they say they are at the polls. They really believe that, too, and will point to dead people who are still registered to vote, not realizing that those names have simply not been purged. There is nothing substantive to show any kind of real voter fraud, from either party. If anything, the evidence is that some R operatives try to suppress the vote by circulating flyers giving the wrong polling place or day in heavily populated areas. Like Joe and Bb both say, this is a solution in search of a problem.
ReplyDeleteScott, Nice to know that the R party is becoming more French. I know you approve, and don't blame you. :-)
ReplyDeleteDear Babs
ReplyDeletePeople died for the right to bear arms too but you seem to have no problem taking that right away.
All this outrage from them dems in Philly and Allentown makes me think voter fraud is bigger then I thought.
Bernie,
ReplyDeleteI would venture to guess that some of the patrotic Republican Legislators who voted for this bill, never served in the Armed Forces or lifted a hand at a Food Bank,Homeless Shelter or Habitat project
The Tea Party started when we elected a black President and older downscale white folks lost their damn minds.
ReplyDeleteThat's untrue. It's an unsourced attempt to inflame racial passion, typical from you.
ReplyDeleteif u can't prove you are an American then you should not be able to vote. The d's motto "Vote early and vote often."
ReplyDeleteliber bill white came out against this. Therefore it must be worthwhile
ReplyDeleteGeeting makes a false racism charge but would be the first to complain if false charges were hurled against homosexuals. What a double standard.
ReplyDeleteMorning Bernie, when I stopped into vote in the last election, a gentleman had his ID ready to show the clerk, thought he needed it at that time to vote, I had to get a non-drivers ID, I can't judge distance and don't belong driving a car, I needed it to purchase a cell phone and for doctor's visits, I must prove who I am at the doctor's offices, at one of my medical visits, the nurse is not allowed to use the last name of a patient in the waiting room, what does this say for our country; unfortunately it is a different world for my grandchildren from the one in which I grew up, but it is still the best in the world. Carol
ReplyDeleteFunny how this partisan bill passed by a group who claims to be "fiscally conservative", yet it is a clear "tax & spend" policy. We have a massive debt, so why not toss another $20 million into the hole?
ReplyDeleteIf the GOP of PA is so worried about "voter fraud", why did they not go after Rick Santorum during his failed re-election against Senator Casey? He was living full-time in Virginia (the state of his birth) while claiming a PA residence as his home? Sweater vest was having the tax payers of PA fund his army of kids to attend "charter School" from the Commonwealth of Virginia (where they lived year round).
I mean there is no greater example of voter fraud than false residency for a candidate.
Hell in 2007 the GOP Candidate for Mayor during the primaries had Mike Fleck living in his "residence" still in the early stages. The guy was resting his head in New Jersey at night. Why do you think Panto would go out of his way in later debates to make Gary Bursch look foolish for not knowing his area geography?
GOP of PA only seems worried to shaft the inner city population who don't drive out of a chance to vote.
Now, statistically speaking--what demographic lives in our inner-cities the most? It is not the seniors they are trying to prevent from voting, those people (sadly for tons who have no business still driving) have the proper ids. I mean who do you think are the ones still talking about President Obama not being born here? (crazy old farts).
Read between the lines, it was just like when "Flori-duh" would ban all voters in 2000 with the same name from voting because one person with that name was a felon. Look at the list of names they banned, what demographic did they go after?
Funny thing about rights... gov't can't act as an obstacle to my exercise of those rights. Voting, owning a gun, criticizing my elected officials...
ReplyDeleteTo the person who pointed out the 2nd amendment argument about the state rep in the video, the next time you are angry about an ID, tax, liability assignment or registration fee for you to exercise your rights, remember the attempt to limit people's right to vote.
Limiting rights is a dangerous thing for gov't to be doing. I'm frankly disappointed in comments from people like Scott Armstrong, a constant advocate for certain rights. The flip comment suggests he and many others don't care about other people's rights at all.
Yeah no, there was no racist at the early "Tea Party" rallies.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.angryblacklady.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/racist-tea-party-protesters.jpg
And I might add about the (id to buy things). I have NOT been id'ed for beer in ages. Hell when I got my photo id from Monroe County identifying me as a Law Enforcement, the guy from the County never asked to see my photo id to prove I was who I said. Anyone could have walked into the building gave a name and had a photo id as law enforcement.
ReplyDeleteTHINK ABOUT THAT! Better have ID to vote, but we don't need to see it to give you id to be identified as "Law Enforcement"!
It's hard to believe there are many people with no ID outside the undocumented(illegal?)
ReplyDeleteI can't do much without ID. Make every effort to provide ID and let our voters take some responsibilty for the rights they have.
It seems we can provide all kinds of support for the needy, but they don't want to spend a little time getting ID?
Some countries put a long lasting dye on the voters thumb as they vote. Sounds like an alternative to those too bothered to get a picture ID.
I need an ID when I go to the doctor and the pharmacy, thanks to the new health care requirements, I need an ID when I buy a beer with my dinner at Wegman's, I need an ID quite often when I use my credit card.
ReplyDeleteAre these anti voter fraud folks trying to imply that the poor don't use the doctor, pharmacy or buy beer? An ID is only $12 at the DMV, and if they care enough to vote they will get one, assuming they don't already have it, which is very hard to believe.
This is about preventing voter fraud, plain and simple.
Funny thing about rights... gov't can't act as an obstacle to my exercise of those rights. Voting, owning a gun, criticizing my elected officials...
ReplyDeleteSorry Anon 940am that's incorrect. You need a photo ID to buy a gun.
The Supreme Court has ruled time and again that reasonable regulations involving rights are acceptable - the one you'll be most familiar with is the "shouting fire in a crowded theatre" argument from Schneck v. United States in 1919.
Anon 730. Putting serving in the armed forces and working in a soup kitchen or for habitat as the same qualification for serving in the legislature proves how out of touch you are
ReplyDeleteOnce again we hear the nanny-state argument - people just aren't smart enough to bring (or obtain) an ID card to prove they're who they say they are. That is so ridiculous it's not even worthy of arguing.
ReplyDeleteThe fact is that voter fraud does occur. People vote more than once. Others claim to be someone they are not (such as relatives) and vote on their behalf. Organizations (such as ACORN) are paid to register voters and sometimes make up names of people they register.
Requiring ID is a simple, non-intrusive step to combat voter fraud.
It is also important to note that even if you forget your ID nobody is disenfranchised. You can cast a provisional ballot which will be counted if you produce an ID within a few days.
Hardly an evil plot to suppress the vote.
Spike How about this false president? As far as ID you need it to buy things like cigarettes. If someone is so incapable of getting an id then maybe they should not be voting.
ReplyDeleteI think this whining is silly. How many times over the past month has a photo ID been required of me? Way too many, I say. The hospital, the doctor office, the store where I want to write a check, the motor vehicle office, you name it.
ReplyDeleteEvery darn place you go, a photo ID is required, but we are to believe that requiring one of a person before they vote is going to make the world end and "discriminate" against certain unfortunates? Well, what the heck do those "unfortunates" do when they go to the hospital or the doctor's office? Hmmmmmm?
It seems to me the federal government, which is taking over our lives, is the origin of all this photo ID mania, and apparently that's OK, but the same federal government is "insensitive" and "discrimatory" should it ask ID of a voter? Give me a break, what a bunch of hysteria.
And I am NOT a republican. (Nor a democrat either -- they are all bottom-feeding pond denizens.)
Anon 10:46 President Obama was LEGALLY elected. You just have a Mikey Mouse sore loser attitude.
ReplyDeleteWhich is why you cowardly post anon and support suppressing the demographics most likely NOT to vote Republican. You might want to read up on the Fourteenth Amendment.
I also see you have no answer to why Rick Santorum claimed PA residency while living year round in Virginia. Or how a non-Easton resident in 2007 ran for Mayor against Panto. Silly me going back to facts.
Also funny you show no outrage I could get photo id as Law Enforcement and never have to show my drivers license to get it. Shouldn't you be calling for a law on this?
FWIW, every voter in Lehigh County - upon entering the polling area - is presented with an "unofficial" form where the voter PRINTS their first & last name.
ReplyDeleteThe purpose of this form is to assist the Majority/Minority Inspectors in easily/properly/expediently identifying the voter when they search for their entry in the voluminous List of Registered Voters (so that the voter may sign their name - or make their "mark" - as required). It also prevents an occasional language barrier situation which, at times, can make for an uncomfortable (embarrassing?) moment for both parties involved. Oh, and did I mention that it would also eliminate some occasional issues of amazingly bad penmanship issues too?
As Bernie admits to being a bottom-feeding blogger, let me admit to being a lazy-assed poll worker, but I rather like the idea of replacing this BOTHERSOME repetitive task with the equally repetitive task of showing ID; this new requirement would obsolete our past practice. It also would "kill 2 birds with 1 stone" as currently some voters are required to produce ID anyhow. One useful benefit of this slip of paper though is that it is used to communicate to the CLERK (charged with manually recording the names of all voters); hmmm, that workflow would need attention.
Now, if we could only do something about all of the numerous various & sundry legal/informational postings that we have to find space to hang - WHICH NOBODY EVER READS!!
FWIW, every voter in Lehigh County - upon entering the polling area - is presented with an "unofficial" form where the voter PRINTS their first & last name.
ReplyDeleteThe purpose of this form is to assist the Majority/Minority Inspectors in easily/properly/expediently identifying the voter when they search for their entry in the voluminous List of Registered Voters (so that the voter may sign their name - or make their "mark" - as required). It also prevents an occasional language barrier situation which, at times, can make for an uncomfortable (embarrassing?) moment for both parties involved. Oh, and did I mention that it would also eliminate some occasional issues of amazingly bad penmanship issues too?
As Bernie admits to being a bottom-feeding blogger, let me admit to being a lazy-assed poll worker, but I rather like the idea of replacing this BOTHERSOME repetitive task with the equally repetitive task of showing ID; this new requirement would obsolete our past practice. It also would "kill 2 birds with 1 stone" as currently some voters are required to produce ID anyhow. One useful benefit of this slip of paper though is that it is used to communicate to the CLERK (charged with manually recording the names of all voters); hmmm, that workflow would need attention.
Now, if we could only do something about all of the numerous various & sundry legal/informational postings that we have to find space to hang - WHICH NOBODY EVER READS!!
Bernie, correct me if I am wrong. Unless the laws have changed, I can register to vote by mail. No I.D. required. I can then ask for an absentee ballot to vote and then mail my ballot back to the election office with no I.D. I can then take my voter registration card over to the Sheriffs office and they will issue me a permit to carry a concealed weapon with no photo I.D. on my voters registration card. They (the sheriff's office) will take my picture and place it on a photo I.D. so I may carry a concealed weapon. Then I can take my photo I.D. to the voting place and get turned down for voting priviledges even though two government agencies have already recognized me as a voter of the County (the voter registration office and the sheriff's office). Isn't it amazing how our government officials think. Kind of makes you want to vomit to see all that useless energy going to screw one segment of the electoral process so they can remain in power instead of using that energy for good use such as creating jobs or finding a way to have the citizens of our state benefit from extraction of natural gas as the legislators did in Alaska with their oil..Now, lets pass a law that makes it illegal to drive an automobile through downtown Harrisburg at more than 700 miles an hour. Oh, you say there are enough laws on the books to make sure that doesn't happen. You say that's next to impossible. You say that's plain stupid. No more stupid than the new voter I.D. law.
ReplyDeleteTo Anonymous 1024 A.M.
ReplyDeleteHey Einstein, I didn't mean those were qualifications. These same Republican Legislators who claim to be patriotic and Hawkish have never served their Country or Community, before voting for this Bill. But they want to control your life.
What we should have is a uniform, biometric identification card that everyone gets when they turn 18. One national card, linked to a national voter database. We should also just automatically register people to vote when they turn 18, that way if you're an adult and you live in a particular area, there is no question about whether or not you can vote. If someone has a question we can look at the database in real time.
ReplyDeleteWhat we don't need are piecemeal regulations that pick and choose which forms of ID are valid: Driver's license, passport, NRA card are fine, but college id and VA cards aren't? What gives? We have horrendously low turnout so as it is, why not prevent (however unlikely) fraud while simultaneously making registration, signing in and voting easier?
The truth is very few people understand how voter fraud works therefore they don't understand the importance of voter ID laws. First off we must realize the voter rolls are only purged every five years. That means that anyone who has moved away or died is still registered in a precinct years after they have left. It isn't difficult for an informed local party activist to know these names. As a former committee person I can look through my precinct and find many names of people I know who are gone but are still registered to vote in Allentown 11-3. I think we all see the problem here. In our large urban areas where a single party is overwhelmingly dominant does any think this information isn’t used to full advantage?
ReplyDeleteHere’s a question, why aren’t the names of newly deceased voters removed from the voting rolls immediately? After all the information is collected and kept in the same county office building. The answer is of course because certain people don’t want that done.
Voter ID laws are routine in every country that holds elections but the real fraud occurs when our voter lists are not regularly purged.
Scott Armstrong
the d's are mad because now they can't rig elections with illegals and ignorant people they drag out of homeless shelters for $5.00.
ReplyDeleteBob,
ReplyDeleteWhere did this happen? Give us a link from a reputable source. Just because a sexist AM talk show host says it does not make it so. He also claims he is not a sexist pig or drug addict. Reality says otherwise.
http://archives.citypaper.net/articles/101295/article009.shtml
ReplyDeleteBookmark and Share
print this article
ARCHIVES . Articles
October 12–19, 1995
cover story
Dead Men Can Vote
Dead Men Can Vote.
Voting fraud is alive and well in Philadelphia.
By Scott Farmelant
This was easy to find
Scott Armstrong
I'm calling bullshit on Scott Armstrong!!!
ReplyDeleteHe said: "The truth is very few people understand how voter fraud works therefore they don't understand the importance of voter ID laws. First off we must realize the voter rolls are only purged every five years. That means that anyone who has moved away or died is still registered in a precinct years after they have left."
My father died February 2009, he was NOT on the voter rolls during the general election that year!!! I saw the book where I sign, his name was no there. So dead people CAN'T be listed. NICE TRY!!!
BTW Scott, why won't you address the topic of Rick Santorum's Election fraud as Senator? The only reason he didn't lose the case with his "local school district" who had to pay for his kids attending cyber charter school was the court said the district waited too long on brining the one child's enrollment to court. I think false residency of an elected official is the GREATEST ELECTION FRAUD!!!
Yet all of you knee jerk Republicans play Sgt. Schultz when I mention this. "I know NOTHING!"
And one more thing:
ReplyDeleteAll you knee-jerk Republicans saying voter ID will stop voter fraud. Will every polling place have a machine to swipe IDs to make sure they are not fake? No. Gee, sounds like people with their heart set on fraud will just make a fake ID. I know none of you have an answer to this since AM talk radio, Fox News, and GOP talking points e-mails have not discussed this.
People have died to give us the right to vote, and you Mikey Mouse people want to look for loopholes to keep demographics who vote for you from voting. You people have some nerve calling yourself "patriots". I see cowardly people who can't win on issues and know it.
Pardon me, looking for loopholes to keep demographics who won't vote for you from voting.
ReplyDeleteI take Democracy VERY seriously, and my blood boils when some people look for excuses to obstruct people from their constitutional rights.
Spike needs to take his meds...now.
ReplyDelete12 cases of voter fraud in PA since 1999 vs 31 million votes cast.
ReplyDeleteHell, give me 1/12 of the 5 million this law is expected to cost PA taxpayers and I'll not only promise to never vote, but I'll even give Scott Armstrong the money he needs to move to France.
The first African-American President ushered in the tea party. don't you remember all the signs with Obama in a Zulu outfit.
ReplyDeleteMost of the baggers are old, white and collecting one government check or another.
As one woman on fox screamed, "Keep the government out of my medicare". Ya gotta love it!
The Iron Sheik
This Scott Armstrong character must be close friends with Simmons.
ReplyDeleteThey both talk a good line to the few misguided individuals who will listen.
But have no real life experience or knowledge of what working Americans do on a daily basis.
lol anon 6:23, no meds for me, I'm not delusional about non-existent "voter fraud". I'm just not going to submissively sit back while some people wish to wipe their rear ends with the constitution and spit on the graves of those who died for the right of ALL Americans to vote--not just the ones who vote for ONE political party.
ReplyDeleteSimply put....voter fraud has never been shown to be a problem in Pennsylvania. This is a solution in search of a problem.
ReplyDeleteThe problem can only be too many senior citizens and minorities voting.
Anon 9:56 --- I have never once been asked for ID at a doctor's office or at my pharmacy.
ReplyDeleteMaybe to buy decongestants, but I regularly fill prescriptions and have never shown either for that reason.
To Scott Armstrong,
ReplyDeleteShow me your papers!
Give me Liberty, or give me Death!
ReplyDeleteThere is one reason and one reason only to protest voter ID. Babette Josephs serves as a perfect example for reasons we should take the complete opposite position to hers.
ReplyDeleteI am of the opinion that those who most oppose voter ID are the very same who could/would not hold office were it not for fraudulent votes or the backing of entities that profited from the same.
reply to Anon 527p.m.
ReplyDeleteYour PARANOID, take your Meds!!
Why is there a problem with this? People getting any kind of assistance should have ID. That takes care of the poor. Old people in nursing homes should have access to ID. Teens have ID. If you worry about the homeless, maybe you shouldn't. The only reason I can think of is some are use to playing dirty and getting away with it. Any time you try to even the sides the one side gets unreasonable and hostile. Makes we work harder for ID's. I smell a rat.
ReplyDeleteOld folks on medicare probably did more for this country and probably have paid their share of taxes so they do deserve help in their senior years. The real problem is the younger crowd who could be working and chipping in but choose to make fools of themselves instead. If you do not have a decent job or are still living with mommy who somehow provides the roof over your head then while you have the right to your opinion you have to know you can not be taken seriously. Some of you will milk society for a whole lot longer then the grandmother you complain about. You are the ones we need to stop if we are to ever be prosperous again. We know who you are and you just don't like it.
ReplyDeleteYou are all missing the point. The folks who wrote and passed this law ran on the platform of less spending and smaller government.
ReplyDeleteRepublicans are willing to pay for a advertising blitz (NOT mentioned in the tab for expenses on the bill), opening Penn Dot License centers for longer hours (I guess they are working for free and obtaining free electricity for the buildings?) and bussing seniors to these license centers for their free IDs (last I checked Diesel was $4.25/gallon, unless they are getting free fuel from somewhere, along with free busses, volunteer drivers, etc. etc.)
If we don't have money to pay for schools, libraries, higher education, health coverage for our poorest citizens and fix our roads, pipelines and bridges, then I CERTAINLY feel we don't have the money for this bill.
I can see it now at a local polling place.
ReplyDeleteA Combat Veteran of WWII, Korea, Vietnam or the Middle East arrives to Vote. The Veteran is told he/she can't vote because He/she has forgotten to bring ID even though the workers know the Veteran. The Veteran fails to return to Vote. THIS IS AMERICA!!!
Another moment at the Office
ReplyDeletePASCHKE..Well you've done it again
SIMMONS..Done what?
PASCHKE..Voted to protect voters
SIMMONS..PASCHKE,my friend, this Bill was designed to make it appear that way.
PASCHKE..WHAT!
SIMMONS..It's to suppress the VOTE.
PASCHKE..Your a great POLITICIAN!!!