Despite warnings of bad weather ahead, about twenty-five people took their chances and attended last night's LV Health Department community forum at Bangor's Washington Elementary School. RenewLV and the League of Women Voters (Northampton County) hosted a panel who spoke in mostly general terms about the benefits of public health. State taxes collected from LV residents, estimated at somewhere between $4 and $5 million, are funding health departments elsewhere. Apparently, that's still not enough money to fund a LV Health Department. Dr. David Lyon, who chairs the Board of Health, conceded last night that it's going to cost money, and at a time when both counties are already facing tax increases. He wants to have the Health Department up and running by July or August.This was billed as an "[i]nformal forum, free and open to the public, to promote discourse and consideration of a Lehigh Valley Health Department. Brief presentations from each of the panelists will be followed by plenty of time for questions and discussion." That's not how it worked out.
What is up with the LWV and those damn index cards? Instead of just asking our questions, we have to write them on index cards and then they decide whether the question is appropriate. If there were 500 people in this crowd, I could see the need. But 25 people?
The Northampton County Bulldog, Ron Angle, refused to fill out any cards, but insisted on asking questions about the disparity in services that would be offered to downtown Allentown and slate belt residents. Dr. Lyon indicated services would be different because the needs are different. "That's a wonderful play on words," snapped Angle. "Are the needs for flu shots different?"
Angle then noted the small, mostly nonlocal crowd, and asked, "If the masses wanted this, why isn't this place packed?"
That brought several geriatrics, including former LWV President Ida Belle Hahn, to their feet. They demanded that Angle shut up. One very nice old lady was ready to brain Angle with her cane, Ida Belle gave Ron hell, and one older gentleman began to yell until his false teeth nearly fell out. John Reinhart, a board member who was once principal at Washington Elementary, finally gave Ron a detention.
RenewLV's Steve Bliss made sure Angle was able to ask his questions, and an interesting dialogue ensued. Reinhart noted that, as Superintendent of the Bangor School District, he was given 4000 doses of the H1N1 vaccine to distribute. He had to find a place to store it, and then had to scramble to find people who could administer it. What if this were a serious epidemic, he asked. "We are at risk in the Lehigh Valley because we don't have the organizational structure to make it happen. ... It's up to us. No one is going to help us."
Last night's meeting was attended by Northampton County Council members Peg Ferraro and Mike Dowd, in addition to Angle. Mary Ensslin, who proposed this idea as a member of Council, was there, too. Human Services Director Ross Marcus was also in the house.
RenewLV 's Steve Bliss and Beata Bujalska really deserve some recognition for their efforts. Whether you support or oppose public health or rail, I have found both of them more than willing to engage in the give and take of public debate. Bliss indicated that, as the plan becomes more refined, there will be more meetings. At this juncture, I doubt the votes are there.
But how much is a child's life worth? There are statistics showing that infant mortality rates are higher here than in other areas of the state. So are the death rates for diseases like melanoma. According to these dedicated professionals, public health will change that dynamic. If this is true, it will be worth every penny we spend.
Your headline asks a question that need not be answered by local government.
ReplyDeleteBernie,
ReplyDeleteYou present an interesting point of view about those blank index cards. Never before considered the censorship aspect.
You're right! Of course, they could moderate the questions and make sure it sounds like the audience is in favor!
We'll be more cautious when attending public meetings in the future. Wish someone had challenged this process before.
We've attended lots of League meetings and this does seem to be their pattern. Thanks. Do you mean that some people did not get their questions answered?
an "[i]nformal forum, free and open to the public
ReplyDeleteIs this thing like one of those "free" retirement seminars offered by bank representatives and investment brokers? Yes it can benefit, but it's going to cost ya to use them to provide services. Noting wrong with making a couple bucks.
Question is, does the county actually need these services?
Should NC create a whole department because 1 year H1N1 storage was needed for 30 days?
Can these services be regionalized w/o ABE in the mix?
Build it, they will come. If NC can provide less crowded waiting areas, folks from Easton, Allentown & Bethlehem said I should tell you to save em' a seat.
It's our very own CardGate.
ReplyDeleteIt will be interesting to see how
the Call and Express Times report on this meeting?
Maybe the League will explain their practice of public input censorship?
ReplyDeleteChannel 39 could do the Lehigh Valley a big favor and host a "real" debate on the local health care consolidation proposal.
ReplyDeleteThey could invite pro and con guests and not invite League
members!
Say what you will about Ron Angle, but we have to admit,
he's got courage and the willingness to put himself out there.
Way to go Angle..A Countywide health department is not needed nor can we afford it. These are lean times. If we began a health department, human services would, without a doubt, be the department that suffers. DPW used stimulas funds to help pay for its budget this year. That was once and done. Next year, even with a State tax increase which most likely won't happen, human services will be struggling to find funding. Counties can not afford the luxury of a health department. You want to talk about dead infants. What happens when children and youth funding gets cut and their is no funding because we wnat to pay for this health department. Spare me!!! Way to go Angle!! Keep up the fight!!
ReplyDeleteWhat was the purpose of the League
ReplyDeletepeople being there in the first place? It's not like there were
1,000 or so residents in attendance. Couldn't the panel handle the questions themselves?
We need an honest accounting from each county as to how many tax dollars go into their respective annual budgets. Then we need an honest accounting from this panel as to what are the real costs of such a proposed consolidation. Then we need the information made public. And, finally, we need taxpayers to have an opportunity to vote on the issue.
ReplyDelete"You want to talk about dead infants. What happens when children and youth funding gets cut and their is no funding because we want to pay for this health department."
ReplyDeleteAre you kidding me? Basketball clinics are more important than dead children?
Basketball clinics are more important....only because dead children are dead, and therefore can not play basketball.
ReplyDeleteAnon 7:06, This is definitely a LWV pattern. I almost never get my own questions asked. I'm all for treating panelists with respect, but this prescreening has ruined many of these encounters. Last night, every one of my questions was asked, even though they asked about specific cost and disparity. Other critical questions were posed, too. But in that setting, there is no ability to follow up.
ReplyDeleteI do not know if nay questions were missed.
Anon 8:31, I made that suggestion after last night's meeting, but did not mention Channel 39. I think Dr. Landis and Ron should debate this issue. Not only would this inform the public about the strngths and weaknesses, but it would actually help health department advocates to see and strengthen any of the weaknesses noted by Angle. It would also be one helluva' show.
ReplyDeleteHow much is health care worth?
ReplyDeleteEverything.
Especially tax-payer funded abortions.
Break the bank if we must.
Hurry, there is no time to lose.
Bernie,
ReplyDeleteDo you mean Dr. Lyon and Ron?
Who is Dr. Landis.
This card index thing really has changed my perspective on public forums. Thanks Bernie.
Well, Channel 39 is Public Broadcast and public debate seems a good partnership.
ReplyDeleteI am sorry. I confused dr. Lyon w/ a name I'm searching.
ReplyDeleteMary Ensslin started this boondoggle? No wonder, she will be looking for another appointment. And when will she fix that hair style? Talk about fugly
ReplyDeleteAttacking women's hair, basketball clinics being compared with dead babies? Are you kidding me? You complain about how the meeting was run but you make comments like these? Abortions are not part of what a public health department does, please do your research before making such comments....Bernie you did not mention the most important statement made last night by Dr. Alberto Cardelle from ESU. Angle again was asking about services in the Slate Belt (or lack there of). He has been told time and time and time again that services will be AT LEAST equaled to what Bethlehem/Allentown receive. Dr. Cardelle stated that because the money is pooled from both counties, the Slate Belt will actually make out better because we have less people to draw funding from (matching 315 funds) but will reap the benefits (money) because of the number of people that live in Lehigh Valley - this fact isn't stated enough times...Angle and everyone else needs to hear it over and over again. This is what will fund the bi-county year after year. New Jersey residents pay about $6/month each to have each of their county health depts. run. You heard Dr. Lyon state that it will be a few pennies a month....
ReplyDeleteSo Angle doesn't believe general statements about dreamy cost savings and expanded services? Imagine someone being so cynical of political promises! What's the world coming to?
ReplyDeleteI'm heading to LBTs house to sell him or her a NYC bridge and some waterfront property in Tamaqua.
Some people will believe anything.
Bernie,
ReplyDeleteDid you see that it looks like CHIP will be extended from 2013 to 2015 under the Senate bill?
I saw that. The Senate Blll, in my opinion, is infinitely better.
ReplyDeleteLBT,
ReplyDeleteI don't fid the remark about Ensslin's hair particularly offensive. she's got ome pretty thick skin and is in the public eye. It comes with the territory.
I'm glad you clarified that public health has nothing to do w/ abortion. Like yo, I fonud those remarks offensive.
You have correctly paraphrased Dr. Cardello, who did say what he said. I do not consider them the most important words uttered last night. In fact, the argument is something of a canard. Bethlehem and Allentwn will continue to offer all the services being offered by their health departments or they will not paRTICIPATE. That is where almost all the staff will be located. Whatever services are offered in outlying regions will necessarily be nferior to what already exists in Bethlehem or A-town. That point was acknowledged in previous discussions.
I'll leave uou with this thought. There is a group of gung ho public health advocates who tried last night to shout down an opponent who had the cortesy to come to your forum for the lialogue that was promised. Unlike most of you, this is one opponent who has a vote.
People who oppose this department have legitimate points, from cost to bureaucracy to the qualty of services in different areas. The best way to meet that opposition is by listening to it, and taking the legitimate points made.
For example, it's clear that costs will be involved. In view of the economy and the reality that both counties intend to seek major tax hikes, going in there and demanding millons is the surest way I can think of to get the plug pulled. Yor best bet is to come in at 0, relying solely on state taxes and private donations until the counties are more fiscally healthy.
If you're not willing to listen, a worthwhile program will go down the drain.
Bernie:
ReplyDeleteI did not find the abortion comment offensive. I was clarifying what a public health department does and does not do - abortions is not one of them. In regards to the person wanting to come to my house to sell me a NYC bridge, I can assure you that I am "wide-eyed" to this issue. I have not only studied the 50-year history of the bi-county/single-county initiative, my master's thesis (currently in the process of being accepted for publication) is on this initiative. I understand that not everything is as it appears. YOU have to understand that northeast Pennsylvania is many decades behind the times in regards to health protection. It is 50th out of the 50 states in offering public health services...this is not acceptable. At some point, this health department will be established and you and the Ron Angle's of Pennsylvania will have to get used to it. There are people moving into this area that want change. Not only will they get support from their peers, they will run for local office and win.
" At some point, this health department will be established and you and the Ron Angle's of Pennsylvania will have to get used to it."
ReplyDeleteThis is unnecessarily divisive. What you've just done is slam me, who is inclined to support public health, making my point. You are your own worst enemy. If you think you can shove this down people's throats, be prepared for a rude awakening. And Angle, whom you disparage, is at least hinsest. he is willing to state publicly what other elected officials are whispering privately.
Let me try this one more time. Right now, you are on a path to destruction. Save that change crap for somewhere else. If you attempt to foist a health department on the LV that involved more than a minimal amount of money in the next two years, the plug will be pulled and everything done by some good people will go right down the drain. That's reality. You have to be realistic, and go for what you can get.
As far as running for office goes, knock yourself out. I'd love to see how many votes you get by promising a tax increase so you can impose a health department.
Now, you point out we are 50 out of 50. That's a good point. Why is nobody making it? Where is your authority?
A gubng ho attitude will condemn you to failure. What you need to do is listen to the legitimate points made by those who oppose this concept, and try to voercome or accomodate them. Absent that, you will see the plug pulled in the next few months, and you'll only have yourselves to blame, master's degree or not.
The public welfare class and the elitists from Ny and NJ want more and more.
ReplyDeleteWhen they flocked here for cheap macmansions, who the Hell paid their defaulted mortgages? We did.
"poennies a monty", I remember many a sales metting where we were instructed to use that phraseology in order to close a deal and avoid specific cost related questions.
This is a White Elephant that will insuf=re that the welfare crowd can live anywhere in the Lehigh Valley and get free services.
If the Northampton County Republicans vote for this they will never win re-election.
LBT, while Pa. is nowhere near the top of the class in public health delivery amoung states, it is not the 50th either. This is a "fact" without basis.
ReplyDeleteBenny: It IS a fact. Research it....PA is last in offering public health services
ReplyDeleteBernie: If you choose to see my statements as "slams" that's your prerogative. There are two sides to this story and we each have a right to state them. We have listened to the arguments against the initiative for the past few years. We know what you are saying: WE HEAR YOU! As far as being on a "path of destruction" and being "my own worst enemy" - If standing up for what I believe is right and fighting a cause worth fighting for, then I happily go down that path. I actually care about the health of my friends/acquaintances in Northampton County; this is why I've dedicated myself to this cause. We'll be happy to go after "whatever we can get". We also understand that the plug can be pulled anytime. The budget has to be passed each year. So why not at least try it for a year? If the county thinks it's too expensive, you have the right to close it down. In regards to other statements you made, I'm not sure what it is you are trying to say..some of the words are either misspelled "gubng ho" are I just don't know what they mean....
ReplyDeleteLBT,
ReplyDeleteYou obviously have NOT been reading my posts on this topic because I have supported the health department. I have not broken out the pom poms, but think it is a worthy goal that should be explored. What I do not support is an elitist attitude or the attempt last night to shout down some very reasonable objections.
Your unwillingness to look at this practically is condemning this worthy concept to defeat before it ever gets off the ground. Unless you get realistic in a hurry, you can kiss this goodbye.
What you don't get, and for an elitist you have a particularly rough time grasping the obvious, is that there is NO WAY that NC Council will contribute one dime of tax money to this concept next year. Or the year after that. That's just the way it is. If you want to run for office and get rid of the obstructionists, you can do so, but you will have to wait two years.
I have attempted to locate anything that would substantiate your claim that Pa is #50 out of 50 in public health. Provide a link so we know you're not spreading disinformation, which is as bad as any disease.
Learning from the experiences of Bangor and East Stroudsburg (where large quantities of vaccine were lost because of refrigeration issues), the nine school districts of Lehigh County have met in a series of meetings over the past two months to plan this weekend's H1N1 clinic for children (6 months – 21 years old) at Parkland High School.
ReplyDeleteSchool districts were given the vaccine and the responsibility for organizing a clinic. This initially seemed an unmanageable task for the educational communities without medical partnership and expertise, but through the leadership/coordination efforts of Vicky Kistler at the Allentown Health Bureau, a partnership was established. This includes the Lehigh County school districts, Allentown Health Bureau, Lehigh County EMS, South Whitehall Twp. Police, Cetronia ambulance, and Lehigh Valley Hospital taking the lead as our medical partner. It definitely took the leadership and expertise of the health bureau in Allentown. This probably leads to further evidence of the need for some sort of bi-county heath bureau to assume the leadership and coordination responsibilities needed in taking on mass health situations, whether it be a large-scale clinic like this or a more serious situation like a pandemic.
I hope the event is observed and given some media attention from the angle of a partnership putting together a major undertaking like this. It is a monumental undertaking, yet it will probably look "easy" --- that is due to the planning and collaboration from so many diverse entities that went into it.
And this is an excellent argument for public health, the best I've heard so far. I applaud you for your efforts.
ReplyDeleteRegarding the public health service statement I made earlier: This is a more accurate statement:
ReplyDelete"According to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Service’s Health Resources and Services Administration (HRSA), Pennsylvania has the lowest ratio of public health workers to population in the nation at 37 workers per 100,000 people, compared to a national average of 138 workers per 100,000 people."
The last "Anonymous" and LBT both have valid points for the need of a bi-county health department collaboration. What Bangor had to go through to get the H1N1 vaccine distributed through the school district just doesn't make sense. Having one entity to handle events such as these, does make sense.
ReplyDelete"What if this [H1N1] were a serious epidemic"
ReplyDeleteReinhart, you are right, it's not a serious epidemic. So stop funding drug companies' ventures in pandering snake-oil.
I love the "camels nose under the tent" approach the neo-elitists want for the Phobic Health Scam.
ReplyDeleteLets try it for a few years. Angle is nuts but he as well as some others knowledgable about government, know that scam. Once you create the authority there is no way anyone will "pull the plug".
The Editorials will fly, children will die, dogs will screw cats, Islamists will control the streets.
Unskilled office holders may be freightened by these oft used tactics.
Let us at least be honest. If you create the authority, it is here forever.
The question I have for LBT is this, If you feel this is the best thing for the Valley and it is so obviously needed for the publics health, why not have it submitted for a referendum decision? State law allows for formation by referendum or vote of the County officials. There was a massive public relations effort through the papers and advocates to keep this from a vote of the people, who will pay for it, why?
People supported the Land protection deal, at least the majority of the 30% who voted did. Still at least it went to the people. Put this out for a vote and we all abide by the results. How is that for honest and fair?
LBT said...
ReplyDeleteBernie:
I did not find the abortion comment offensive. I was clarifying what a public health department does and does not do - abortions is not one of them. In regards to the person wanting to come to my house to sell me a NYC bridge, I can assure you that I am "wide-eyed" to this issue. I have not only studied the 50-year history of the bi-county/single-county initiative, my master's thesis (currently in the process of being accepted for publication) is on this initiative. I understand that not everything is as it appears. YOU have to understand that northeast Pennsylvania is many decades behind the times in regards to health protection. It is 50th out of the 50 states in offering public health services...this is not acceptable. At some point, this health department will be established and you and the Ron Angle's of Pennsylvania will have to get used to it. There are people moving into this area that want change. Not only will they get support from their peers, they will run for local office and win.
6:56 PM
To LBI,
Where does it say PA is 50th out of 50 states in health care?
Please supply data.
County public health department will syphon funds from Human Services, one way or another, period..Stop the madness and stuff this idea once and for all!!!
ReplyDeleteI do have to laugh, however, at the comment by someone who said that the Republicans who support this will not get elected. Hate to tell you but they were the top vote getters in the November election. Shows you how much attention people pay to this issue!
need to take a look [url=http://krz.ch/5ic]HrHrHr.[/url]
ReplyDeletehelp would be cool and i get pics unlocked