Last Friday, I told you about a nonbinding resolution considered by Northampton County Council. All nine council members were present. Council Prez Ann McHale abstained while council member John Cusick voted "present." The remaining seven voted 4 to 3 to adopt the matter. Council clerk Frank Flisser, tallying votes in a stormy meeting, quietly said that it passed.But did it really? Put another way, was the resolution adopted? I was confused and asked for your help.
Most of you unofficial county council solicitors, relying on Robert's Rules of Order, voted yes. But some of you, like Lehigh County Commissioner Dean Browning and East Penn School Director Alan Earnshaw, ruled that the resolution failed.
So what's the final answer?
According to county council solicitor Anthony Martino, the resolution failed. Northampton County's Home Rule Charter, which trumps Robert's Rules, provides "[t]he vote of a majority of the members shall be required for the adoption of an ordinance, resolution, or budget, unless otherwise provided by this Charter."
I still don't know what the hell a "present" vote means.
A motion to adopt a resolution? If so the motion passed.
ReplyDeleteThat said, before they waste any more tax dollars on non binding resolution they should entertain a motion to rescind the non binding resolution.
Were these council members previously on a mickey mouse sewer authority?
"The vote of a majority of a quorum shall be required for the adoption of a motion"
ReplyDeleteThis sentence that follows should be the provision provided in the charter.
I'm still standing my ground.
Again a "present" vote means the member would like the record to affirm they attended the meeting but did not vote. Nothing else.
Eckville:
ReplyDeleteI appreciate the firmness of your conviction on this. However, would you be willing to consider the following:
The requirement for a quorum is 5 for fully constituted County Council.
That once that count is reached there is a quorum and all council members present are part of that quorum.
That the quorum count for this particular meeting was 9 and as a result a majority of the quorum that evening was 5.
If you accept that, then the motion did not have enough votes to be adopted.
Dean
Not recording a vote is not recording a vote. It's not yes. It's not no. The quorum permits a meeting. It does not dictate vote total outcomes. Abstentions are handled similarly.
ReplyDeleteAnon 3:08
ReplyDeleteTrue enough but the charter says:
"The vote of a majority of a quorum shall be required for the adoption of a motion"
So this specifically applies "majority" to the quorum and not to the number of of those voting on a particular matter. I don't disagree with your reasoning. I'm just saying that what you outline is not the way the charter is written. I believe that is why the solicitor stated that the item was not approved even though it had a 4 to 3 favorable vote.
Dean
Dean, consideration taken and the debate is appreciated and welcomed.
ReplyDeleteFirst I believe our different opinion lie in the definition of "quorum".
A quorum is best defined as the minimum number of members who must be present at the meeting of a deliberative assembly for business to be legally transacted.
That said, in the case of Northampton Council with a membership of 9, the quorum count is 5. This is defined in their charter under section 207. Meetings.
A quorum is always 5 in this case. The number does not change by how many members are present at a give time. The quorum is always 5.
The quorum count (5) can only be changed by amending the charter.
So if 9 members are present then the quorum (5) requirement has been reached and there are 4 additional members present.
Now did the resolution pass, Eck thinks yes. In order for the motion to be considered there must first be a motion and second to adopt the resolution or the motion dies. The purpose of the Roll Call vote is so each individual members "vote" is recorded in the record. I know of five accepted and legal (unless Special Rules apply) responses to Roll Call vote.
1.Yes
2.No
3.Abstain-used mostly when there is a conflict of interest.
4.Pass-If more time is needed before you cast your vote.
5.Present-You wish not to cast a vote on particular motion but would like the record to show your presence.
In the case with Northampton Councils non-binding resolution,the vote count would be 4 yes 3 no, (abstain and present are not counted but noted in the record) since 4 is more then 3, the majority of the boards votes cast were for the affirmative and the motion passed.
Footnote; Since there were 9 council members present, the quorum question never really comes into play in this case.
Enjoying the debate,
Eckville Press
"The vote of a majority of a quorum shall be required for the adoption of a motion"
ReplyDeleteSo this specifically applies "majority" to the quorum and not to the number of of those voting on a particular matter.
Dean, correct.
"The vote of a majority of a quorum shall be required for the adoption of a motion"
ReplyDeleteSo this specifically applies "majority" to the quorum and not to the number of of those voting on a particular matter.
Again Dean, correct.
The majority of the quorum will always be three. Unless they amend their charter.