If Barack Obama's Monday night news conference was intended to inspire us, he did not make the sale with me. Two-thirds of Daily Kos readers gave Obama an A or A+, but I felt he stumbled on too many questions, very much like his predecessor. His grammar was a little better.Now I voted for Obama. I even support the stimulus package as it came through the Senate. Imagine how those who oppose it must feel. Here's what everyone's favorite conservative, Scott Armstrong, has to say.
"The only thing we have to fear is the fear of what is confronting us."
Are a leader's words inspiring if you find yourself quivering in the fetal position after he/she speaks? Listening to Obama's dire description of the current fiscal situation one wonders if stocking up on guns, cigarettes, and liquor might be not more useful than shifting funds from stocks to gold. When one understands that a key ingredient of any economic recovery is a return of consumer confidence why is the president casting dark shadows on the country's fiscal prospects? Is he merely cynically covering his bases in case his own recovery plans fail or does he, more sinisterly, welcome a crisis? Either way the recent words of the new president offer only cold comfort to a nation that perhaps foolishly thought it was headed in a new and positive direction.
cold contort?
ReplyDeleteSounds painful.
I think Scott meant "cold comfort" but I'm a liberal.
ReplyDeleteIt does sound painful, Scott! I was just mildly uncomfortable.
He inspired the most politically divisive budget in memory. His use of fear to sell an historic pork barrel feeding frenzy gained no bipartisan support. If he'd bothered to show up during any of his Senate career, he might have learned how to forge coalitions and lead. He can't even lead his own party.
ReplyDeleteBTW. I love the babbling tax cheat Sec Treas who crashed the market with each attempt at a sentence. Very inspiring.
We heard for years that tax cuts and breaks to the fat cats would work its way down to the people. Sadly that is only part of the case. If the wealthy hoard, do not invest, etc., working capital dries up.
ReplyDeleteIf you have net assests of $5 to $10 million and lose $2 million that is a hard knock. If your net worth is $70,000 and you lose your job you are screwed within a few months. Laze Fare capitalism is as extreme as socialism and just as detremental to the average American.
Obama doesn't have all the answers but he sounded intelligent, and gave thought out answers. A welcome relief from, 'bring'em on' and 'we have a pretty strong economy'.
Scott may be hiding now but many Americans are finally happy that a President communicates like an adult speaking to other adults. Not spoon feeding ditto heads while sipping brandy with the fatcats.
Todd Castor
Folks, this is no stimulus package. There's just enough cover in there to make it appear that they're helping the economy and the bulk of it is subversive kickbacks and pats on the back to the liberals. Wait until you get rejected for that medical procedure that you need, illegal immigrant votes keep Pelosi, Reid & Co. in power since I'm paying for their health care too, and ACORN does even more of their "good works" in our communities. The list goes on and on. Obama could have had it all the right way, but not even his smoothly babbling press conference could cleanse this monstrosity.
ReplyDeleteThe R's revise history to claim that FDR's New Deal didn't work.
ReplyDeleteI would love to see a Republican - any Republican - stand up and admit that the legacy of 30 years of wage stagnation accompanied by unparalleled accumulation of the fruits of the ever-increasing middle-class productivity by the top 1% is proof that voodoo economics - I mean, trickle-down economics - is an abject failure. 30 years is sufficient time to make it work.
The tax cut mantra is just that - a slogan. Reagan (the wonderful, forgetful, lovable guy) did cut taxes and the economy did begin to rebound.... before it crashed yet again, leading to what was at that time the largest tax increase in US history. Collecting SS disability? How do you like those tax bills? Remember interest deductions? Bet you wish you had them now.
Corporations abused their credit line privileges and in under 2 hours on September 18, 2008, nearly destroyed our economic system by withdrawing almost $500 billion from the US banking system. Their punishment? We inject billions more into the banking system and the banks, fearful that the draw-down would resume, began freezing credit. The resulting damage is spread across the news media every day.
I'm 60. Until September, I saved regularly, invested my money, paid my bills. I had enough saved to ensure a livable retirement. That's gone. Gone because I trusted the "free market" as well. I don't have time to wait for it to come back.
My girlfriend, a well-respected industry professional - was laid off on September 15th. She'll never make six figures again - she can't even get hired as a secretary - a few years back she was the SBA's Small Businesswoman of the Year in the state where she lived. Her savings took a 40% bite - but her home took a $400,000 hit - which turned out to be her equity. Her retirement is ruined as well. (And, pppllleeeeeeeeeeeeeease don't spout that it was the CRA that caused all of that)
Reagan believed in the free market as the panacea for all economic ills - he never considered that some of the folks driving that market were evil. Live and learn, I guess. But don't say that you weren't warned this would happen. Ike laid out the dangers ahead. You proved him right.
I would love to see the R's come up with a workable stimulus plan, but in order to do that, they would have to set aside their malignant lust for power and their penchant for turning every activity of middle-class workers into some supposed "crime". If they truly believe in their principles, they should act like it. Instead of pitting neighbor against neighbor, show us something that works. Instead we get the screams of "socialism," obstructionism, and Madison Avenue framing. Fail. Don't worry, R's, you've been in this place before. You'll get over it.
The Dem plan may also fail. We're going to get the chance to find out. Let's hope it works far better than voodoo economics. Otherwise, we're all going to hang.
At least we'll be together. Bipartisanship. You gotta love it.
ACORN? Please give me the page number and line number where ACORN is specifically mentioned in this bill.
ReplyDeleteSomeone out there knows the answer to this. A prominent Capitalist, free-trader once said the only problem with the Capitalist system is capitalists. Actually people in general, because when it comes to money people are greedy and Capitalists are no exception.
ReplyDeleteI thought it was Warren Buffet but I believe it was someone earlier.
No it was not a Democrat.
The provisions in this bill for digitizing medical records is a giant step toward socialized medicine. It provides not only for the idea of digitally storing all medical records, which could be a really good idea, but then it turns them over to one central government agency to manage. It also provides for that agency to oversee all medical procedures to insure that that the doctors are performing the most economical course for the patient and the government. It allows for rationing of care by the government agency, who will decide your treatment, not you or your doctor
ReplyDeleteIf you look inside the bookthat Tom Daschle wrote last yer on health care, he laid this out every step of the way, including suggesting that it is so important to implement that it should be carefully hidden in another bill so that the public doesn't know it happened until it was signed. He understood that the people of this country would not like it , so then do it behind their backs.
Interestingly we now have SCHIP expanded to cover illegal aliens and "children" up to 30 years old.
These two steps together put us firmly into socialized medcine, and the citizens of this coutry did not know it was hapening to them!
I plead guilty of missing that typo. Of course contort is at least a word. I did want the word “comfort” in the final sentence.
ReplyDeleteScott Armstrong
FDR prolonged the Depression. After eight years, his unemployment rate was still 16%. The war delivered him (or he delivered us to war).
ReplyDeleteRead about the Depression of 1920. Yes, 1920. There's a reason it was quickly overcome. The Depression of 1929 was locked in for more than a decade because of federal action.
Geithner's market crashing speech is indicative of this. We're in for a long Depression because many still hold a romantic notion of FDRs disastrous reign.
I cannot believe that there are otherwise intelligent people out there who think there is some kind of argument to be made for socialism over free market capitalism. Even the rosiest colored glasses cannot change image of the the grim slow death Soviet socialism brought to Eastern Europe for 60 years. And how 'bout them ChiComs! looks a lot like free market to me, with the ruling elite as the "Board of Directors".
ReplyDeleteOur standard of living, indeed the ability of you to comment on this blog would never have happened under socialism.
In response to Scott's original post:
ReplyDeleteSo.... should he land on an aircraft carrier and wave a "Mission Accomplished" banner?
When did Americans become so stupid that we would ignore what is clearly going on around the country (and by almost ALL economists estimates is going to continue going on regardless of any government intervention through the end of the year at the very least) if the President said "nothing to fear! spend as usual!" IN FACT that is what Bush said when he doled out those useless "stimulus" checks last summer - "go out and buy something!" That DEFINITELY saved us.
Uncle Ginny: I don't think there are many people who argue socialism over capitalism - but I know that I am one of many people who argue that capitalism is a system that is doomed to failure, eventually power becomes too consolidated and (this is already true today) the barriers to entry become so high that new entrants are impossible and competition becomes theoretical instead of real. There are stages to capitalism, and in an early-capitalism economy, there is no better system on the planet. In late capitalism (if we aren't there yet we'll be there soon enough) you'll find that the gap between the poor and the rich gets wider and wider, there is less opportunity to move up in class, price competition goes out the window, and generally it becomes a system which only benefits those who already are in power or holding capital.
Socialism, of course, is also a complete failure of a system, and my problem with arguing the point that capitalism is a flawed and failing economic system is that people seem to think of it as an argument of Capitalism vs. Socialism, when clearly there are other options. the USSR and USA are not the only two economies in the world. Check out the EU, and look at the economic systems of most of western Europe and Scandanavia. Our term for their economies is "Welfare State," which of course people immediately scream when they hear 'welfare' not bothering to find out what a welfare state is in europe - but those countries have successful economies and considerably higher quality of life than we have in the US.
I had a rather spirited debate over on LV Poliblog a few months ago, to read all of it you can go here:
http://lvpoliblog.blogspot.com/2008/11/nbc-news-trickle-down-econ-works.html
but here is my comment on the alternative to crapitalism:
To the anon 3:57 - Communism is an extreme totalitarian form of Socialism, which does not work in practice. The fundamentals of socialism can be practiced in a capitalist economy VERY SUCCESSFULLY in non extreme totalitarian ways. For examples see:
Denmark
Sweden
France
Germany
Belgium
Switzerland
Austria
Finland
The Netherlands
Italy
the UK
To Joe: I do not advocate taking socialism to an extreme (or even at all for that matter). I don't agree with many of the methods of the "war on poverty." I agree with you that our methods have failed - as far as I am concerned that is because the fiscal conservatives have never fully committed to creating a welfare state (and before all the other people who read this blog but don't know what a welfare state is, go look it up it doesn't refer to welfare the way we think of it in the US), and so the kind of programs which help to pull people out of poverty have been largely underfunded and ineffective.
I am in favor of:
A graduated tax structure which supports programs which benefit everyone AND bring future economic benefit to the people and the country, but in ways which help to level the playing field. Currently relevant examples are Health Care and Education.
There are two documented approaches to creating a welfare system or state, and the US has the totally crappy bureaucratic one. Europe has the other model, which is probably one of the reasons why the quality of life in many of those countries is considerably higher than the quality of life here - despite the fact that the US has a higher per capita GDP.
The most common and compelling argument against socialist policies I hear is that government is inefficient and therefore taxpayer money is wasted on government and not on programs. This is totally true, but I don't see this as being a fundamental flaw of government - I see it as being a fundamental flaw of our government.
To Anon 1:36
ReplyDeleteOf course the word "Acorn" is not in this 4 inch high stack of paper! You must have lost your liberal dictionary where, if you look up the phrase "community development or outreach", you will find the ACORN logo. Nobody's defending the nonsense from Washington on both sides of the aisle over the years, but let's not be naive either.
This is in response to Anonymous said... 1:33 AM since you brought up "VooDoo Economics"... perhaps that was the coined phrase of Ross Perot you were referring to?
ReplyDeleteA few of Ross's talking points: Balanced Budget [National DEBT!), Term Limits, Campaign Reform, Congressional Retirement Plans Ended [works in tandem term limits],
MOST IMPORTANT PART-MUST SEE !!!
Poorly written trade agreements @ 29:01-33:01 < if you watch nothing JUMP TO THIS PART. Middle Class/Working people are the key-you destroy them, you lose your economy and America's tax base.
I'm not saying he should have been elected, but he sure had some great ideas. He should have at least been considered for his input on today's problems!
Charlie Rose: October 18, 1994 (56:55 Minutes)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QXqT8AEdbY
OR
Click on my name for the video
Here's a list of 17 such organizations serving the Annapolis area alone.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.ci.annapolis.md.us/comorg.asp?page=1605
Extrapolating, We're talking thousands nationwide.
But you know which one is getting all the money.
I see.
1.) Unemployment was 25% when FDR took office. Therefore, you saying unemployment was 15% in 1940 means Roosevelt succeeded in cutting unemplyment by 10% in seven years. This is not a failure.
ReplyDelete2.) The idea that the New Deal and the Keynesian economics that it represented was not responsible for pulling the nation out of the Depression but World War 11 was shows you don't even know what you're talking about.
The policies of the United States Government during World War Two was Keynesian Economics to the highest level! We spent twice as much as we were pulling in through taxes but had full employment and finally ended the Depression.
In fact, that is exactly the type of spending people had been asking for throughout the 30s and it's exactly what we're looking for now. The U.S. government pumped billions upon billions into the economy to build the ships, planes, shoes, helmets, and bullets that went on to defeat Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan.
Glenn, I was referring to language Bush 1 used .....
ReplyDeleteGeorge Bush, in the days when he was an opponent of Ronald Reagan in the 1980 primaries, referred to an extreme version of this theory espoused by Reagan as "voodoo economics."
Anon 1:33, What an elegant comment! It really came from the heart. Thank you.
ReplyDelete"The provisions in this bill for digitizing medical records is a giant step toward socialized medicine."
ReplyDeleteIn 2006, at a debate at the slate, Charlie Dent was advocating this. He did in '08, too. There is simply too much paperwork and digitalization will make health insurance less costly by reducing some of the bureaucratic overhead.
I think this aspect of the stimulus is a positive step.
Scott, I will correct the typo.
ReplyDeleteOur tax dollars going organizations, like ACORN, whom are under criminal investigation?
ReplyDeleteACORN Kick Backs?
Anon 1:36,
ReplyDeleteGeneral Electric isn't specifically mentioned either. Are you saying that they won't get any of the "Green Energy" money?
Your point is ludicrous. ACORN will get MILLIONS. So my taxpayer money is used against me. Sound's rather un-American to me.
"To compel a man to furnish funds for the propogation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical." - T. Jefferson
This is really funny!
ReplyDeleteAll the Orwellian fears of automated medical records are misguided! What I would fear is the idea that “wouldn’t it be nice” to know where you and your friends are using your cell phone is scarcer! this is currently being sold by the cell phone companies! Just think what the police could do with that kind of information! It not the government we need to fear, its big business!
A forty year Democratic wish list - that's ALL this is.
ReplyDeleteCondoms stimulate the economy?
How?
You have a majority - do what you want.
Have a nice day, too.
Anon 1:33 a.m. -
ReplyDeleteMy prayers are with you to see some of your losses return over the next five years or so. But, your post begs the question:
What the heck were you doing holding such a volatile position that close to retirement? If you are 60 now, you were in your early 50's when the dot-com bubble burst and everyone lost their shirt, so that lesson should not have been lost on you.
You make some good points about greed and bad influences in the free market. But your statement that you had enough - until recently - says you benefitted pretty well from trickle down until now, when, at a time when your investment strategy screamed for prudence and conservatism, you stayed at the table a little too long and now want to blame it all on someone else.
Good luck, sir.
The ACORN debate goes on..You be the judge
ReplyDeleteClaim: Charges of ACORN voter fraud are supported by many state officials.
Fact: Republican election officials in swing states such as Florida, Ohio, Missouri and Texas have said they have had "no problem" with ACORN. The Republican St. Louis elections director, Scott Leiendecker, said about ACORN's voter registration, "Everything's been on the up and up." In the ongoing Department of Justice scandal, former U.S. Attorney David Iglesias said he was politically pressured to charge ACORN with voter fraud in New Mexico despite the fact that there was no evidence.
Claim: ACORN gets federal money for voter registration.
Fact: While some of its allied service organizations get federal money, neither ACORN nor Project Vote seek or accept federal funding. There is no federal funding for ACORN's voter registration campaigns.
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08300/922687-109.stm
He said she said..
ReplyDeleteMoveon.org says they will get stimulus money.
Media Matters says.. "The false claim is based on a misrepresentation of a provision that would appropriate $4,190,000,000 "for neighborhood stabilization activities related to emergency assistance for the redevelopment of abandoned and foreclosed homes.. " ..." The $4.19 billion will be distributed by HUD's Neighborhood Stabilization Program."
http://mediamatters.org/items/200901270010?f=h_latest
Neighborhood Stabilization Program Grants: "HUD’s new Neighborhood Stabilization Program will provide emergency assistance to STATE & LOCAL GOVERNMENTS to.."
Note> "to STATE & LOCAL GOVERNMENTS"
http://www.hud.gov/offices/cpd/communitydevelopment/programs/neighborhoodspg/
According to the bill..
http://www.hud.gov/offices/cpd/communitydevelopment/programs/neighborhoodspg/hera2008.pdf
(3) ELIGIBLE USES.—Amounts made available under this
section may be used to—
(A) establish financing mechanisms for purchase and
redevelopment of foreclosed upon homes and residential
properties, including such mechanisms as soft-seconds, loan
loss reserves, and shared-equity loans for low- and moderate-
income homebuyers;
(B) purchase and rehabilitate homes and residential
properties that have been abandoned or foreclosed upon,
in order to sell, rent, or redevelop such homes and properties;
(C) establish land banks for homes that have been
foreclosed upon;
(D) demolish blighted structures; and
(E) redevelop demolished or vacant properties
Sorry the link to this bill was cut off..
ReplyDeleteClick On My Name
HUD: Neighborhood Stabilization Program
ReplyDeleteClick On My Name
(sorry 4 all the posts)
Obama is not the President, Pelosi is. If that is not clear now it will be in a few more weeks. You wait and see!
ReplyDeleteLook Out LV(B) said.""""""""""""".The fundamentals of socialism can be practiced in a capitalist economy VERY SUCCESSFULLY in non extreme totalitarian ways. For examples see:
ReplyDeleteDenmark
Sweden
France
Germany
Belgium
Switzerland
Austria
Finland
The Netherlands
Italy
the UK """""""""""""""""""""""""""
A mere 70 years ago all these countries would have been crushed by Adolph Hitler if it wasn't for us. I mean USA, not including you. And don't ask me what the B stands for. If something the like Pearl Harbor happens again you will be the first one crying and screaming in terror in the street expecting everyone to kiss your butt. I feel you should be the first to be shipped to the front line. Womens lib remember?
Wow...I felt just the opposite. After 8 years of that Texas cowboy trying to complete a sentence, Obama's news conference was sheer delight. It's so nice to have an intelligent President instead of a bumbling idiot. Tax cuts for the rich and trickle down economics is what got us in this mess. Bush is now where he needs to be...on his Texas ranch shoveling cow poop.
ReplyDeleteNone of the European countries mentioned field a serious military anymore. It affords them a paradise of shared rationing. US and UK carry lots of heavy water at considerable expense.
ReplyDeleteBernard P. Fife
ReplyDeleteYeah, I remember the same thing after Bill Clinton came into power.
"It's so nice to finally have a President who can complete a sentence."
That is so totally unfair. How can you say Bill Clinton completed a sentence when he was never actually convicted of anything?
It is worth understanding that the depression of the thirties was the “Great Depression”. It ended when the nation was to put to work to win the war against fascism. After the war the US economy had a huge advantage over the rest of the world as we were not in ruin.
ReplyDeleteScott Armstrong
This is for you LOLV:
ReplyDelete“barriers to entry become so high that new entrants are impossible”
This must be a fairly new problem, since Apple was founded in a Garage in 1976
“and competition becomes theoretical instead of real.”
Was it theoretical competition that killed Bethlehem Steel?
“the gap between the poor and the rich gets wider and wider”
is true when you take income mobility out of the equation, but accounting for income mobility, people are Movin on up every day…..if they want to and are motivated
“price competition goes out the window”
On what basis does Walmart compete?
“benefits those who already are in power or holding capital”
with the advent of the 401k system, coporate ownership has never been as broad or as deep
and so on and so on
Your liberal platitudes are making me sleepy
If A-Rod tarnishes an entire era with his cheating steroid use, how is not that Geithner and Daschle and whoever else do not tarnish an entire era that is just beginning with their cheating tax practices?
ReplyDeleteSenator Charles Schumer: "those little tiny, porky amendments"
ReplyDeleteNice. This bailout business has degenerated into a farce. An absolute free-for-all money grab.
Schmuck Schumer tries Jedi Mind-trick on Americans: "These aren't the those little tiny, porky amendments you're looking for. ..."
ReplyDeleteAnon2:59 ---- Voter fraud and voter registration fraud are NOT synonymous.
ReplyDeleteACORN never committed voter fraud, period.
Anon2:40
ReplyDeleteI was living hand to mouth during the dot com bubble - by "enough", I mean enough to live well in another country in another hemisphere.
That's about as much detail as I care to lay out here.