Charlie's G.R.O.W. Plan
Go forward with developing existing energy resources on American soil and off our coasts in the most environmentally sound manner possible.
Research new technologies that will allow us to cleanly make use of America’s vast coal resources and that will spur the development of alternative and renewable energy resources like wind, solar, geothermal, as well as exciting technologies like plug-in hybrid and hydrogen fuel cell vehicles. And, we must resume the use of nuclear energy (a source of power that leaves absolutely no carbon footprint).
Oppose punitive legislation promoted by extreme environmental interest groups that hurt American workers and domestic industries for the benefit of countries like China and Venezuela. Our workers shouldn’t have to accept losing good, high-paying jobs because of short-sighted energy policies.
Work towards greater conservation by increasing the energy efficiency of our home appliances and the gas mileage of our vehicles with the ultimate goal of lessening our dependence on energy from trouble spots around the World.
Political Notes – Charlie Dent on Energy vs. Siobhan “Sam” Bennett
Important: Please note that Charlie is not just jumping on to the drilling and exploration wagon now because of the public’s rightful outcry regarding fuel costs.
Charlie voted for exploration in ANWR back in 2005, and predictably heard it from environmental groups. If Congress had voted, as Charlie voted back when he was first elected, to open up a miniscule area of ANWR for exploration and production, we would already be seeing significant production from those fields today, and they would have been in full production (approximately one million barrels a day) by next year.
What Will Sam Say?
“Uh-oh! It looks like Charlie Dent doesn’t want us to break our reliance on fossil fuels. I told you he was evil!”
Wrong. And, those of you who cover Charlie know that statement is wrong. Charlie has voted for higher CAFE standards and for higher efficiency for our appliances. He has supported tax incentives to make alternative energy more affordable to the public. He has consistently championed the development of hydrogen fuel cell technology both for vehicles and for industrial plants and even co-founded the House’s Bipartisan Hydrogen and Fuel Cell Caucus.
However, he doesn’t believe that conservation should equal stagnation when it comes to the effects of new energy sources on the economy. Does he want to move towards a greater use of renewable and alternative energy sources? Absolutely, and his voting record proves it. Does he reject fossil fuel use or clean coal technology out of hand without taking into account what that kind of policy would have on you, your family and our economy? No. To do so would be short-sighted policy-making and pandering.
What Else Will Sam Say?
“Charlie doesn’t care about the potential for ecological damage.”
Look, Sam calls for an "Apollo Project" approach towards energy. She says she wants to reduce American petroleum usage by 20 percent in 12 years. The alternative energy sources she indicates we should be developing currently account for, at best, five percent of America’s total energy usage. So, Sam believes that in 12 years, through scientific and industrial progress we can quadruple the country’s usage of those energy sources. In other words, we can develop the scientific know-how and industrial techniques necessary to completely reshape not only what we get energy from but also find ways to supply or transmit it to the entire country – but she doesn’t think we have the technological ability to safely drill on 2,000 acres in the Arctic.
But, Sam Didn’t Completely Say “No” to Offshore or ANWR Production, Did She?
"I'm against oil drilling in environmentally sensitive areas. We should instead be readying ourselves for alternative energy."
That was from a comprehensive interview she gave to Bernie O’Hare at his Lehigh Valley Ramblings Blog. If she says anything else, she will have flipped-flopped.
Also, I know it is just word choice, but “readying” sounds a little too apocalyptic to me when it comes to talking about alternative energy sources, along the lines of “because PPL has been mandated to get 20% of the energy they generate from alternatives, you should be ready for the fact that your elderly parents won’t be able to run their air conditioner in the summer.”
Those DCCC Ads
By now you have probably heard this, but the provisions that the DCCC criticizes Charlie for in those radio ads are the same ones that Barak Obama supported when he voted for the 2005 energy bill.
Yes. That’s true. I couldn’t make it up.
“Seven Dollar a Gallon Sam”
Our campaign will be educating tens of thousands of voters over the next week about Bennett’s running on empty energy plan. It was widely reported that Goldman Sachs financial analysts have indicated that gasoline could go as high as $7 a gallon by the end of the year. We’re going to let voters know that Sam Bennett has no workable plan to meet our energy needs. We’re going to be introducing them to “Seven Dollar a Gallon Sam” Bennett – the candidate who “just doesn’t get it” on gasoline and oil prices.
In an initial phone canvas on this issue, we made contact with 1195 likely voters across the 15th District and asked them what they thought about Sam Bennett saying “No” to oil exploration and drilling offshore or in the Arctic. 1124 indicated that they thought she was wrong.
I can remember when "Sam" was a Republican. A more insincere person would be hard to find.
ReplyDeleteScott Armstrong
"Work towards greater conservation by increasing the energy efficiency of our home appliances and the gas mileage of our vehicles . . ."
ReplyDeleteI love it how CD is pandering to the idea that the majority of us will even be able to afford driving around in vehicles in 5 years.
An energy policy that at least includes some element of mass transit might be taken seriously, this is not.
Acually, if we have cars fueled by electricity or hydrogen, we will be able to afford to drive and will still be reducing our deleterious environmental impact. I agree mass transit needs to be expanded, too. There is no silver bullet.
ReplyDeleteActually by drilling here and drilling now we will keep oil prices low and beat the inflation effect on goods and service as well as breaking the grip of OPEC on our economy. With that stability in place we look for sound longterm solutions.
ReplyDeleteIt is shortsighted to NOT drill. It is the middle class and working class who suffer the most from increased gasoline and heating oil prices (not to mention the oil inflated prices at market and department store)
I think that Dent's plan addresses both short term relief and long term strategies, the best of both worlds.
Way to go Charlie! A good well thought out plan.
drilling for oil is just plain stupid. America should lead in new technology and leave oil behind. it's big oil/republicans who are stuck in the old, soon to be forgotten, oilfields. keep driving those big old SUVs, keep wasting resources, drill for every last drop so big oil can retire rich, and overseas where the economy is moving thanks to years of neglect beginning with reagan trickle down and bush's total plunder of the middle class in order to feed the upper upper class. oh, and let's fight some towel heads, anyone will do since American's are too stupid too realize the Iraqi's didn't cause 9-11. play on patriotism and suck every last cent out of them by sending good jobs overseas and raising the price of gas, heating oil, and food. where's mark twain when you need him.
ReplyDeleteI always enjoy the "Big Oil Republican" and the "Go Green Now Democrat" debate. As is usually the case with arch-right and arch-left plans, neither one works.
ReplyDeleteWe have to drill for more oil now because alternative sources are not ready for a major role. We also need to build more nuclear plans (I like McCain's position here) as nuclear is the best long term solution we have.
While we're drilling for more oil and building nuclear, we need to work on those alternate sources so that they are ready as soon as possible.
For example, outfitting a typical home with full solar costs $40k on average. My daughter is 15 and she wouldn't live long enough to get a return on that investment. Get that cost to $20k and the economics change dramatically. That's not going to happen overnight, but it needs to happen.
Remember all you arch-righties and arch-lefties, most of us are in the middle, and we're pissed. This presidential election is going to be very interesting!
The Banker
I support Charlie. His energy policy and committment to clean alternative fuels like hydrogen or nuclear energy is sincere. He was advocating for those things long before peak oil became a "hot button" issue.
ReplyDeleteBut I don't believe we should do any oil exploration in ANWR for the following reasons: 1) It detracts us from the real source of our energy woes - our greedy overconsumption; 2) The amount of oil realized may very well be insignificant; 3) it will disturb a wildlife refuge; 4) it will have little impact on oil prices; and 5) I do not trust Big Oil to drill in a manner that is environmentally friendly, and Big Oil has earned that distrust, especially in Alaska.
Having said that, there are people of good will who think this is a good idea.
Glenn -
ReplyDeleteRegardless of what you want the US to do, oil is a WORLD commodity. Even if the US could make a TOTAL transition from oil IMMEDIATELY (not going to happen), the rest of the world will still need (or want) oil.
So even if you don't believe that drilling will help gas/oil prices in the US and don't want it used domestically, then still drill for the oil and export it to close the trade deficit. This will help the dollar which will help us all.
Either way drilling now still makes sense.
Anon 9:35,
ReplyDeleteWhat you say may very well make sense. It may help us gain time while we transition to other forms of energy. That's the best argument I've heard for drilling. But how can we trust Big Oil to do this in an environmentally friendly manner? Its track record in Alaska is pretty bad. The Exxon Valdez incident is a prime example of that.
Glenn --
ReplyDeleteI'm pretty sure that Mark Twain wouldn't have called anyone quote towel heads unquote.
Bernie, I should have addressed that in my post - I agree w/ you. The only way Big Oil should be allowed to do anything is by somehow locking them in to doing it the right way. Their track record sucks.
ReplyDeleteBut I stand on the balance - we need the oil until we transition. So we need to find a way to do both simultaneously.
The Banker
Phone Canvass... That sounds a lot to me like push polling... Bernie thought you did not like those kinda tactics. If Sam was calling and pushing Charlie's horrible record on labor issues or higher edication you would be calling all this a dirty campaign. Charlie is push polling and I am glad Shawn let us know this now.
ReplyDeleteThe Exxon Valdez is a rally cry for not drilling in Alaska. In truth the Exxon Valdez is the reason we SHOULD drill there. The shipping of oil by tanker is fraught with dangers, like the drunken captain of the VAldez.(It was the captain, not Exxon, I am sure that Exxon didn't approve of the spill) In all the years of the Alaska Pipeline ther has not been one accident. As far as the willife is concerned we were told that the caribou would perish, but, instead they are flourishing from the better grazing and lower winter kil by living near the pipeline.
ReplyDeleteThe Pruhoe Bay pipeline is nearby to ANWR Coastal Plain and will be the recipient of the oil. It can produce up to 20% of our oil.
Off Shore is being done by the Chinese RIGHT NOW in the very waters off FLorida that we can be using.
It is ridiculous to let the US economy and citizens of this country go into the toilet while we reach five or six years forward for alternative fuels.
Drill Here Drill Now and work toward a greener tomorrow.
Bernie
ReplyDeleteFifty years ago I sat in an assembly program in the old Nazareth Junior High School. The gentlman presented the program with a model car and sun lamp. The model had solar cells on the hood. He held the sun lamp over the hood and the model car moved. We were told that we were looking at the car of the future. Today, Toyota announced that thier redesigned Prius of 2009 would have a solar panel on the roof and will produce, I assume only on sunny days, enough power, 2.2% to run the air conditioner on the Prius. One small step for mankind and all that stuff.
I will say that it is nice to see that at least some of the citizens have come to the obvious conclusion that our problem will be solved by a mixed bag. Nuclear should have been installed years ago. Fossil fuel is still needed and while your at it think about all the good we did for people around the world because we were the engine of the world's economy. It was our technology that has and still does lead the world. If you watched the news over the holiday, the UAE has put $15 billion into alternate energy teaming up with American comapanies and places lie MIT. That says a lot and gives hope to all.
As for ANWR, it is now projected that it might contain 20 billion barrels of oil. That is not an insignificant amount. Then we have shale oil and tars. Why are we not encouraging the oil companies to go there instead of the farmers getting paid to raise corn, a lot of it now underwater. It will have a minimum if any effect on the "wildlife refuge" Look at the caribou around the warm pipe line. Dumb animals learning something quickly. But to say don't drill in ANWR because you do not trust big oil. Do you know we have been kicking their posterior since the days of John D. Rockefeller. A poor man who made good, he gave away hurricane lamps to people in the heartland. Yes he did it so they would buy his oil. But we fixed him when we busted up his company. Oh, excuse me Standard Oil is back in business when Exxon and Mobile married. Where do you think that capital will come from to develop new sources of power for the world. I would suggest that even tbe oil rich Middle Eastern nations have a finite reserve on money.
As for those who dislike big oil for getting filthy rich, may I suggest that you look at big banks. They are making twice the obscene profits of big oil and as far as investing put your money there. These folks are charging you ATM fees, late fees, interest on loans, bounced cheeks fees and have been doing it for years and let's not forget that great scam, credit cards. Big Bank is also doing nothing to encourage the Fed to raise rates and cut the money supply to increase the value of the dollar. Bring back Paul Volker
As to mass transit, nice idea, who pays for it. Personally if I were in charge I would be laying rail on Route 22 right now. But keep in mind that in the day it was individual business men, or as we came to call them Robber Barons, raised the capital to build those lines. I doubt that anyone could do that today. Then let's keep in mind all the problems one would encounter with the varius local, state and federal regulations. Not a pretty picture. We could spend several gazillion dollars before we drove one spike. What a mess we have put ourselves in becuase we came to rely on a kind and nuturing mother government instead of real producers. It was this fine government that said speculators in commidities could buy with 5% down instead of 50% down in the futures market. You can't do that in the stock market where you need 25%
sure - we can begin drilling more now - and we'll begin to see the results in 5-7 years - and that oil will be sold to other nations as the Alaskan oil is now.
ReplyDeleteexpecting the price to ever come down is a pipe dream (pun intended)
.(It was the captain, not Exxon, I am sure that Exxon didn't approve of the spill)
ReplyDeleteTrue, but it is Exxon that broke all the promises it made after that incident. Exxon is a multinational corporation that has no allegiance to the US. Its obligations are to its shareholders and the manner in which it has handled the aftermath of that incident is a testament to why they cannot be trusted.
I'm pretty sure that Mark Twain wouldn't have called anyone quote towel heads unquote.
ReplyDeleteI believe Glenn was being sarcastic.
Phone Canvass... That sounds a lot to me like push polling... Bernie thought you did not like those kinda tactics.
ReplyDeleteI don't like anonymous negative campaigning. I believe people should have the right to claim they have no desire to receive robo calls.
The short answer regarding what we need to do is, simply stated, "all of the above" with one exception here, hydrogen.
ReplyDeleteOur situation is becoming more dire by the week. hydrogen is a net energy loser and an out right scam.
Either Dent is scaming us or he is being scamed himself.
Hydrogen is only a loser if you use fossil fuels to produce it. If you produce it as a byproduct from nuclear sources it is a tremendous energy winner.
ReplyDelete"These folks are charging you ATM fees, late fees, interest on loans, bounced cheeks fees..."
ReplyDeleteLet's see Chris - late fees, bounced check fees, and ATM fees are all fees that people can avoid easily by - paying loans on time - make the deposit, then write the check - use an ATM with no surcharges (i.e., at WaWa).
All of these issues involve Personal Responsibility and Accountability. It's not up to the banks to subsidize the behavior of people who can't take care of themselves.
I know the economy is tough and people are struggling. But people have to be responsible for their actions - that is a tenet on which this country was founded.
And if you think your bank is charging fees that are too high, then go to another bank! Fact is, I don't want a customer that triggers all these fees (with the exception of the ATM fee) - they're too much of a headache and (despite your proclamation) typically not profitable accounts when you factor in all the costs associated with this behavior.
The Banker
DRILL, BABY .....DRILL!!!
ReplyDeleteThe problem with ATM fees is that it cost the bank nothing to provide you the service of using an ATM. As a matter of fact, they save money by having you use an ATM rather than a bank branch and a teller.
ReplyDelete"The problem with ATM fees is that it cost the bank nothing to provide you the service of using an ATM. As a matter of fact, they save money by having you use an ATM rather than a bank branch and a teller."
ReplyDeleteOnly partially true - a full-service ATM costs $35-45,000 to purchase and install the machinery, and there are monthly fees associated with running and maintaining it. True it's cheaper for the Bank if a customer uses an ATM, but it's not "no cost."
The Banker
Why on earth do we need to drill for more oil? To lower prices? How will that happen, exactly? Will Big Oil magnanimously lower prices? Will the increased supply not meet increased demand? The oil lobby and the Republican party is selling you a bill of goods, my friends.
ReplyDeleteWill drilling more allow us to stop purchasing oil from countries fostering Islamic fundamentalism? IS the goal simply to eliminate Saudi Arabia? The United States gets the overwhelming majority of it's oil from the United States, Canada and Mexico. If ANWR is opened, will that oil be PROMISED for the US market? Instead of demonizing Venezuela, why are we not working together? After all, the US gets nearly as much oil from Venezuelaas it does from Mexico.
The occupation of Iraq and the Afghan invasion use 40 million barrels of oil per day. The US military is the number user of oil in the world.
Who pays? What a ridiculous question. Who pays for the occupation of Iraq? WE DO. What if we used that money to massively fund a Manhattan project for energy? We'd be further indebted to the Chinese BUT at least we'd get a return on that investment. We'd lead the world forward and at the same time reap the financial rewards.
We need to start thinking long term. This guy is full of shit when he says we'd be already using oil form ANWR.
If this blog is simply going to be an outlet for Dent blowhards to talk out of their ass, I'm going to have to check out.
Hayshaker, if you don't want to hear different views and talk about them, then go over to Casey's blog.
ReplyDeletena na na na - hayshaker, goodbye!
Ah, I see. Mr. O'Hare's blog is now Team Dent with Dent's minion's posting anonymously. Have fun, guys.
ReplyDeletehayshaker, it's the small mind that sees conspiracy instead of open discussion. Be bigger than that and debate things, it's how we all learn.
ReplyDeleteI admit I like Charlie Dent, and your dislike of him captures it in a nutshell - he typically gets the far right and the far left angry. That's fine with me, and shows me he's with the majority.
Also, if the Dems expect to win his district anytime soon, better get a real candidate. I know Sam Bennett and like her as a person, but she's a lousy candidate that has made a career of running and losing. I'm surprised that if Dent's seat was as vulnerable as the Dems said, they couldn't come up w/ someone better.
The Banker
Open discussion are GOP talking points? Why not address MY points instead of commenting on the sizes of people's minds? It's interesting how you believe Congressman Dent upsets the right. That is laughable. What I find ironic is the simpleton "plan" Dent put forward is seen as forward thinking.
ReplyDeleteI've gone on record stating that I'll be writing in a candidate for Congress.
There's plenty of energy; get this guy out of office. Elect new comers like me and I'll develop an energy
ReplyDeleteindustry that would strengthen the American individual tax payer. End all war and supply economic stability.
They aren't just GOP talking points, they're legitimate talking points. The fact that you don't agree doesn't mean everyone on the other side is an idiot. I do believe Dent's plan is forward-thinking because it challenges thoughts such as "there's no such thing as clean-buring coal." Why not? What can we do to make it so? Is it a viable short or long term solution?
ReplyDeleteIt's real easy to say "we need to use alternate sources now!" But who can afford them? Fact is, they're much more expensive than even $140 oil. We need to invest in alternate sources to make them more cost effective while dealing with the problems we have now.
Dent has absolutely upset the right - I use my father as a barometer on this one - he's more damn conservative than anyone I know) - he can't stand Dent, thinks he's from the Arlen Specter school of politics, which is another word for Democrat.
There were numerous long term thoughts brought up here, and from what I read, no one made the point that we should continue to depend on oil, and that we're all paying for the sins of the past in terms of developing alternate sources more quickly. But we are where we are on energy, and need both short and long term solutions.
In reading your post, your anger overwhelms your points. Don't be so angry.
Ending the war is a great idea, but even if we decided to end it today, it's years until we're out, so that's long term.
In my opinion Partnering with Venezuela is the really bad idea - Chavez is our biggest problem in South America, do we need to make them any stronger than we already are? I can't stand that we buy any oil from them, drives me nuts.
The Banker
Hayshaker,
ReplyDeleteA few points, if I may.
1. I am certain Dent supporters are posting anonymously. So are you. That's fine with me so long as we can try and remain civil.
2. I am trying to bring left and right together. Our views have become too polarized, and we tend to lash out at each other instead of listening to each other. I love it when conservatives comment here because we don't have all the answers. Also, they tend to have better senses of humor for some reason.
3. Like you, I am opposed to drilling in ANWR. But I am not so certain of my opinion that I am unwilling to listen to others with a different point of view.
4. Congressman Dent, believe it or not, does upset the right. I've spoken to enough of them to know this is so. Remember his predecessor?
5. No one called you small-minded. Your characterization of the commenters here was labelled small-mided. I appreciate and respect your views, but want to hear from people who disagree with you, too.
I'm not necessarily opposed to drilling in ANWR. What I am OPPOSED to is the supposition that drilling in ANWR will solve any problems. It is merely a ruse to open up more area for big oil to exploit while pocketing record profits at our expense. The GOP is beginning it's propaganda campaign around this theme and people are swallowing it. It is pounded by right wing radio and right wing television. OVer and over again you hear this talking point. Why? Why continue it and perpetuate it?
ReplyDeleteI'm still waiting on my challenge to the talking points. I hear many saying they are legitimate but no one has answered the question on how exactly more drilling will effect the price of oil. Will we reduce the amount purchased from the Saudis?
Finally, I'd like to know exactly why Venezuela is so evil? Because they are a socialist nation? Why is Chavez "our biggest problem" in South America?
Those who advocate that drilling is not an answer to the energy problem are seriously and logically flawed.
ReplyDeleteThat is like telling a starving community that harvesting corn from a corn field won't solve the long term hunger problem!
You get energy from where you can - economically - at the time. Yes, we all have valid environmental concerns. But Bernie, really, the Valdez is the reason not to drill? How many decades ago was that spill? How many other major spills have there been? Hurricane Katrina nailed all the oil drilling rigs in the Gulf of Mexico. Result? Not one drop was spilled.
"Alternative" fuels are not economical. I looked at solar last year. Even with the government subsidy grant, it was not economical. However, why not give a 75% or full tax CREDIT for solar? It would then be a wise investment for me to install solar - with my money.
But if government supplies grants to alternative fuels to "make them" economical, they are still not economical because the government is seizing money from taxpayers and directing it to non-economical applications. It destroys wealth.
But if I can choose to use my money, instead of giving it to the government, it might make some sense. But that would involve choices and removing government bureaucrats from the picture. Something most Dems and far too many Reps oppose.
However, the Loony Left won't allow drilling, wind farms (kills too many birds), solar plants (harms the desert ecology), nuclear (China Syndrome!!!), clean coal or coal liquification (it's evil, dirty coal!), etc.......
I am going to try and answer Hayshaker’s questions.
ReplyDeleteWhy on earth do we need to drill for more oil? (To increase supply.)To lower prices? (That would be great, but I would settle for stopping them from going higher, as well.) How will that happen, exactly? (Increasing supply of an in-demand good or product is generally ameliorative vis a vis pricing.) Will Big Oil magnanimously lower prices? (No. Probably not. Because they are Big Oil and they hate you.) Will the increased supply not meet increased demand? (Again, hopefully, increased supply will help meet increased demand.) The oil lobby and the Republican party is selling you a bill of goods, my friends. (Yes. We should nationalize the oil fields as Democrat Maxine Waters wants to do. It's called pulling a Chavez.)
Will drilling more allow us to stop purchasing oil from countries fostering Islamic fundamentalism? (Well, you would think.) IS the goal simply to eliminate Saudi Arabia? (The goal would hopefully be to reduce our demand for Saudi Oil, sure. Unless, they offer it at a lower cost.) The United States gets the overwhelming majority of its oil from the United States, Canada and Mexico. If ANWR is opened, will that oil be PROMISED for the US market? (Good idea.) Instead of demonizing Venezuela, why are we not working together? (Venezuela does a lot to demonize itself, thank you.) After all, the US gets nearly as much oil from Venezuelaas it does from Mexico. (Is that an argument to increase domestic supply that you're making by accident?)
The occupation of Iraq and the Afghan invasion use 40 million barrels of oil per day. (Citation required.) The US military is the number one user of oil in the world. (Something tells me that the whole country of China probably uses a lot of oil. Again, a citation or source would be helpful. Please note that MoveOn.org material will be viewed in as jaundiced a manner by me as a Glenn Beck citation would be by you.)
Who pays? What a ridiculous question. Who pays for the occupation of Iraq? WE DO. (Are you presenting this as news to the readers of Lehigh Valley Ramblings? I think we're fairly cognizant of the concept of taxation.) What if we used that money to massively fund a Manhattan project for energy? (What if instead, we actually allowed permitting and construction of nuclear energy plants, like the French do? That would cut our oil usage. I don't know where you stand on nuclear energy. Perhaps you would support this idea.) We'd be further indebted to the Chinese BUT at least we'd get a return on that investment. (Speculative, but reasonable. Would we reap our ROI within four years? Remember, four years after they started, the American military had a functioning atomic bomb. Do you see us having technology that will significantly alter our energy economy within a similar time frame?) We'd lead the world forward and at the same time reap the financial rewards. (Speculative, but it sounds good, so I'll allow it.)
We need to start thinking long term. This guy is full of shit when he says we'd be already using oil form ANWR. (Language. Language. Estimates on ANWR going into full production range from four to eight years. If drilling had been given the go-ahead in 2005, let's see -- 2006, 2007, 2008 and 2009. Nope, you're the one dispensing the excrement on this one.)
If this blog is simply going to be an outlet for Dent blowhards to talk out of their ass, I'm going to have to check out. (Farewell, Adieu, Au Revoir, Auf Wiedersehen.)
A little accuracy please. Based on:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.energybulletin.net/node/13199
According to the US Defense Energy Support Center Fact Book 2004, in Fiscal Year 2004, the US military fuel consumption increased to 144 million barrels. This is about 40 million barrels more than the average peacetime military usage.
Yes, that's 4 years old, but it is not off by a factor of 365 to update to this year.
Based on:
http://www.gravmag.com/oil.html#consume
and
http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/analysis_publications/oil_market_basics/dem_image_us_cons_sector.htm
The US consumed about 20 million barrels a day in 2003 and 2004.
Yes this is a lot of oil and way more than anyone else, but nowhere near "The occupation of Iraq and the Afghan invasion use 40 million barrels of oil per day."
Sorry, the last reference should have been:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/analysis_publications/oil_market_basics/dem_image_us_cons_sector.htm
It was cut off.
RS
It never ceases to amaze me that the critics want to blame "Big Oil" for the prices. There are so many factors that affect the price. The new villian's are speculators, the markets would collaps with out them. Ya'll should get more informed!
ReplyDeleteWhile the oil co's make 8.5 cents per galon on the pump price the federal and state taxes are far more. The Federal tax is 18.4 cents and the state tax is 31.1 cents. Here's the info... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_taxes_in_the_United_States
The oil co's actually produce a product and market it for profit. There profit margin is well below the margin of 20% that most companies strive to achieve. Where as the government takes that money and squanders most of it on senseless bloated prodjects. "Sen. Robert Byrd Hwy."
Government is the least effective way for your money to be taken from you and spent. You all seem to chide which ever politician is in office but you want more government... what the hell is that?
Una salus victus nullam sperare salutem.
The one hope of the doomed is not to hope for safety.
But that would involve choices and removing government bureaucrats from the picture.
ReplyDeleteYes, because we all know the horrific record of "government bureaucrats" and things like the NIH or NSF. Profit can come later. For the corporate world, innovation only comes when there is implied profit. This needs to be a public/private partnership.
That is like telling a starving community that harvesting corn from a corn field won't solve the long term hunger problem!
ReplyDeleteYou are making the analogy of $4 a gallon gasoline with starvation? Where are the lines and gas stations running out of gas? There aren't any.
"
ReplyDeleteLet's see Chris - late fees, bounced check fees, and ATM fees are all fees that people can avoid easily by - paying loans on time - make the deposit, then write the check - use an ATM with no surcharges (i.e., at WaWa).
All of these issues involve Personal Responsibility and Accountability. It's not up to the banks to subsidize the behavior of people who can't take care of themselves."
It's not up to the bank to molest those who live CHECK to CHECK either..Gas alone has risen about 50% since I took out a car loan in 2005. My pay certainly has not risen 50% since the 2005. It's not that simple. You must take for granted that there is a WaWa around every corner. It's not like that in most neighborhoods. There is a PNC bank at a convenient store where I live (in a college town at that) however they charge fees if you are not a member of their bank. One would think that college kids are usually broke and can't afford fees. So PNC charges their fee and the patrons bank charges there own. How do both incur such costs?
The US ought to adopt legislation as was done in the UK. Banks should not charge penalty fees that are higher than the administrative costs. However since so many of our legilators are in bed with big business, and so many working folk in middle America are partisan, it's not likely we will see any legislation like this anytime soon.
Pardon me Bernie..my comment had nothing to do with Charlie Dent.
Valima, No need to seek my pardon. I understand the points being made by The Banker. But as someone who is always bouncing from one financial mess to another (and it's almost always because I'm an idiot), I was glad to read your words.
ReplyDeletePale Rider,
ReplyDeleteCool name, by the way.
I don't blame Big Oil for high prices at the pump. My oint is that Big Oil can't be trusted, and it can't. It's a conglomerate of multinational corporations whose allegiance is to their stockholders, not the US. What's good for Big Oil is NOT necessarily good for the US.
pale rider - Yes, we've heard the talking points 100 times already. The facts are that "Big Oil" as you call it is making record profits at a time of consumer crisis. Is it within their right to do so? Of course, as BOH pointed out, ExxonMobil is a multinational corporation. They owe absolutely no allegiance to the United States. They have an obligation to their shareholders to make the largest profit as possible and to ensure that profit grows. None of these things makes "Big Oil" any less to blame. Why don't we start by stopping ALL corporate welfare to Big Oil?
ReplyDeleteI don't blame Big Oil for high prices at the pump. My oint is that Big Oil can't be trusted, and it can't. It's a conglomerate of multinational corporations whose allegiance is to their stockholders, not the US. What's good for Big Oil is NOT necessarily good for the US.
ReplyDeleteThink ENRON. Not many understand how Enron ripped off consumers in California exactly, but they sure as hell did. And it was disgraceful.
Reading these postings confirms in me a small desire to see the Dem's win big this fall, then America will see and experience real left wing rule. It could prove to be another valuable learning experience, just like the late 70's.
ReplyDeleteScott Armstrong
Very well put Pale Rider
ReplyDeleteBanker
ReplyDeleteI used the examples I did because a year or two ago I saw a gentleman from one of the large banks on the Fox with Neil Cavuto. He indicated at the time, and if you are indeed a banker you would know this, that his bank, I think it was Chase, made 75% of their earnings via the fees. Could that be correct?
I agree with you that it is a matter of personal responsibility. I have the good fortune to be in a credit union. Have been there for close to 40 years.
My other point was that there are plenty of other businesses that make much more then oil does. But people complian about what hurts them based on what they can comprehend. Remember when everyone complained about that ATM fee but said nothing about the trillion dollar federal budget.
I am always interested to hear people's thoughts on energy and energy policy. DISCLAIMER: I am a professional engineer that designs pollution control equipment for large power plants.
ReplyDeleteWe need a mixed bag of coal, oil, gas, nuclear and alternatives.
Speaking simplistically, we have two main "branches" of our energy policy. Transportation and Electricity Generation.
Like it or not, the transportation leg is going to be fueled (no pun intended) by oil for the forseeable future. To that end, we need to push CAFE standards and efficiency of vehicles. I'm not one to tell someone what they can or can't drive, just don't b*tch about gas when you're filling up your Dodge Magnum Pickup with duel fuel tanks.
On the electricity generation side... Again, like it or not we need coal. According to the EIA, 50% of US electricty comes from coal. Roughly 20% comes each from nuclear and natural gas. Only 1.5% comes from oil/petroleum. So all the drilling in the world isn't going to affect electricty prices. 7% or so comes from hydro, which is sometimes (depending on the situation) considered a renewable in most circles, although you'll never really hear a politician mention hydro (dams) as a renewable. To them it's all one big word:
solarwindbiomass
There are benefits (no doubt) but substantial limitations to the above.
Finally, after you generate the electricity, you need to get where it's needed and the transmission system in the US has some serious shortcomings... Yet nobody wants to build more power lines. At least not by them.
All this is interesting reading, but at the end of the day, something needs to be done and decisions need to be made. Hopefully they aren't short-sighted, political grandstanding type decisions that are made.
God save us all the fact its Ass Clown A vs Ass Clown B for this office is a sad commentary on the American "Democracy" (One party more than a dictatorship)
ReplyDeleteNotice the lack of talking points about ethenol something PA Farmers can do. Instead he bables about were helping the Chinese and Venzeualans out. (Funny he has issues with "Commie" countries, yet he seems ok with us giving cash to Anti-American Dictators aka Sudis)
And lets just make one point clear when the handsome schmuck (DENT) gives us his bullshit Bush Admin talking point if we voted for ANWAR we would have oil now.
BULLSHIT it would be NO LESS than a full decade before any of that oil would be seen, AND it would at best give us 10% of the crude we use.
Yeah we need more mass transit but dont hold your breath dent will do anything for it.
Neo-Cons oppose it, and well Charlie often bends over and lets the Roveites give him his agenda where the sun dosn't shine.
In other words Charlie often talks out of his ass!
Bernie ever think of a write in campaign?
BTW what happend to the "Independent Charlie Dent" that was not going to just do what the Bush admin and Neo_Clowns tell him about Iraq? Oh thats right he flip flopped!
ReplyDeleteYou think he won't do it on Energy?
Would you like to buy a bridge between Easton and Pburg from me?
Hayshaker -
ReplyDeletePublic/Private partnerships are called socialism. Politicians take money from earners and give it to their chosen ones.
I am not equating starvation with $4 gas. I am comparing one idiotic policy with an analogy.
You are very hungry and live next to a corn field. Congress passes a law that states you cannot go into the cornfield and pick food to eat.
We have major energy problems and Congress passes laws that says that we cannot go find and drill domestic oil.
Both would be idiot policies passed by idiot politicians. Sadly, one of these policies was actually passed by idiot, spineless politicians who appease environmentalist whackos who hate oil.
And lastly, where did this magic ten year number come from? Hoover Dam was built in four years - a VAST undertaking. Of course, with all the legal crap, you are probably right. It will take 6 years of legal battles, then four to actually do the work to start production.
The fact that Spike Rogan the Hinder King of Easton is still buying into ethanol as a true alternative fuel makes me feel very sorry for him.
ReplyDeleteMr. Spike here's something for you to read regarding ethanol and what a scam it is. It's from the noted conservative mouthpiece Rolling Stone.
Warning there are many long words in it -- you may need to have one of your friends on hand to help you sound them out and explain them to you.
You do have friends, right?
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/15635751/ethanol_scam_ethanol_hurts_the_environment_and_is_one_of_americas_biggest_political_boondoggles
anon 3:36 Its amazing when I get gas for my Toyota Echo from Citgo with 10% ethnol in it I get better milage.
ReplyDeleteYeah scam my ass.
And anyone who gets their facts from Rolling Stone post HST is a real schmuck.
Stop trying to avoid the fact that the ANWAR talking point is a load of steaming shit!
And Charlie Dent only cares about the GOP not the Valley and the US!!!
Chris,
ReplyDeleteSorry if I appeared defensive - been a banker my entire career (mostly on the community banking side), and we do get slammed a bit so I tend to overreact in response.
I took a quick look at JP Morgan Chase's 2007 income statement - 10% of their revenue comes from "Lending and Deposit Related Fees," the category that includes the areas you cited. They generate a lot of fee income in other areas (asset management, investment banking, etc.) - the 75% figure you cited most likely includes those areas as well.
Remember also, this is the revenue side, I don't know how profitable this segment is for them.
Agreed on your other points.
Sorry to see you're in a credit union - I'm a community banker, and we don't like credit unions much because they don't pay taxes but act like us! But that is a very good solution for people to consider.
Valima, I'm not one for socialist solutions so I disagree w/ you - eliminating the free market is not the way to go. In your case I'd either become a PNC customer or go to a community bank or credit union. There are big differences btw/ them and the big guys. Bernie, I'd recommend the same for you, the smaller institutions will work with you when you make a mistake (and we all do) while the larger ones won't.
The Banker
Spike,
ReplyDeleteRolling Stone is a pretty good source. Your hero, Hunter S. Thompson, wrote for that rag.
Can't you be nice?
Spike,
ReplyDeleteIt takes more than a gallon of fossil fuel to make a gallon of ethanol.
Why? One reason is that you cannot ship ethanol via pipelines due to its higher water content. It has to be trucked.
Also, the problem with ethanol isn't merely its application as a fuel. It is the diversion of corn - an essential food source and feed crop - from food into fuel. I read somewhere that one tank of gas uses enough corn to feed one child in the third world for one year. Great policy! Starve kids for ethanol - which also produces more smog creating pollutants than gas.
Prices of food have skyrocketed as a result of this stupid mandate by idiotic politicians.
Not only can hungry people not pick the corn in the field nearby, but Congress mandates that such food must be converted into fuel. Because we cannot drill what oil we have.
D.C. is not only broken, it is truly the loony bin of the country.
Not necessarily on topic, but should be said -- this is why Bernie runs one of the best blogs in the Lehigh Valley.
ReplyDeleteYou actually get exposed to people with different and oftentimes equally valid viewpoints.
Except for Spike Rogan.
I'm kidding. Even his posts can be profanely entertaining.
Hats off to Joe Hilliard, Hayshaker, Not So Casual, The Banker (love that nom de blog) and Chris Miller for making this an entertaining read.
Good job, Bernie.
When it works, it's because of the readers, not me. I agree with you 100%.
ReplyDeleteAgain, like it or not we need coal. According to the EIA, 50% of US electricty comes from coal.
ReplyDeleteWhy? Why can't we replace ALL coal with nuclear tomorrow?
Public/Private partnerships are called socialism. Politicians take money from earners and give it to their chosen ones.
ReplyDeleteI know many scientists that would disagree profusely with you. Unprofitable innovation can ONLY be achieved by federally funded research and development. 20% of university research dollars come from the federal government. If you ask me, it's a much better use for our money than the President's "faith-based initiatives." But that's just me.
Reading these postings confirms in me a small desire to see the Dem's win big this fall, then America will see and experience real left wing rule. It could prove to be another valuable learning experience, just like the late 70's.
ReplyDeleteI love how conservatives conveniently skip 1992-2000. I don't know about you, but I experienced a pretty damned good economy during that tenure of a Democratic president.
Hayshaker, as to nuclear I couldn't agree more. We need it and we need it NOW.
ReplyDeleteOn the Clinton years, the right would say it was because of a republican controlled House/Senate. But for whatever reason, they were good years economically. I'll save the debate on whether they were good years for foreign policy for another time.
The Banker
"I love how conservatives conveniently skip 1992-2000."
ReplyDeleteHayshaker, you make good arguments, but you're kind of making a case against Obama and the Democrats here.
The Democrat Party of today is not the Democrat Party of moderate Democrats and the hey-day of the Democrat Leadership Committee of Bill Clinton.
Democrat voters turned their backs on that aspect of the party and triangulation towards the political center when you voted for Obama over Hilary Clinton.
Just an observation.
"
ReplyDeleteI love how conservatives conveniently skip 1992-2000. I don't know about you, but I experienced a pretty damned good economy during that tenure of a Democratic president."
Bill Clinton was no Jimmy Carter and he had a Republican House and Senate to keep him on the straight and narrow.
But I understand it is all about the hate for too many Democrats these days, enjoy the wrath.
Scott Armstrong
Why when it comes to Anwar and offshore drilling very few of its supporters would mandate that yields stay on US soil and in US interest. Even Chevron's President never answered Larry King's question when he asked him to vow to keep it for US. It is about the money….that’s why.
ReplyDeleteJust what was the price of gas when Bush/Cheney had Energy summit (members secret)?
Just who was involved in that meeting before California had man-made blackouts so that rate increases could follow.
Just who was in that meeting before the collapse of Enron?
How could Bush not see $4 per gallon on the horizon 2 months ago, but $7 is projected by years end?
Why? Why can't we replace ALL coal with nuclear tomorrow?
ReplyDeleteI agree we need nuclear. However, NOBODY is *really* committed to seeing it through. I don't care what side of the aisle you're on.
Also, do you know how long it takes to permit, design, construct and initialize ONE nuclear plant (Try 10+ years), let alone enough to replace ALL the coal plants in the US? What to do in the mean time? And who is going to pay for it?
Fact is, coal can be used efficiently and in an environmentally sound way.
I always chuckle when I hear someone say we need Wind/Solar/Nuclear.. (even coal!) to lessen our dependence on foreign oil. These people are confusing transportation energy and electrical energy. I mean, when is the last time you ran your car on fission?
ReplyDeleteAgain, I'm not against a mix of any and/or all forms of electricity generation, but we have to be realistic about it.
Ah, another catchy slogan with alternative meaning.
ReplyDeleteG ive
R ebates
O ut to the
W ealthy
BTW,the price is right for a real look at clean coal technology.
Coal can be converted to jet fuel.
The Air Force spent $4.7 billion on jet fuel in 2007.
Every increase of $10 per barrel of oil drives up Air Force fuel costs by $600 million per year.
Holy Cow, with that spending clean coal research investment will pay for itself in no time.
PA Antracite region will be booming. Forget toll roads, casinos, turnpike leases. With coal royalties like that, new bridges and roads everywhere. We'll even expand mass transit.
Imagine one of those fancy tower found in Dubai being built in Shendoah.
No endangered species in those creeks up there. We'll even have money leftover to clean them up.
The coal region economy could use a boost.
Don't underestimate the value of "Black Diamond".
Cheers!
Bernie,
ReplyDeleteNice Guys and Mike Fleck finish last!
And keep in mind I said POST HST about RS.
Matt Taibi is the only writer there worth two bits.
RS is like the NYT.
Both use a ton of words to say so little.
Its rare either has any real revelations. Your more likely to fins that in the OLD WSJ (Pre Mudoch), NY Newsday, Philadelphia Inquirer, and Washington Post.
And the reason ethnol is not better now........ RONALD REGAN!
The man that took Carter's solar panels off the white house and pushed for lower fuel standards ignoring the crisis that started during the Gerald Ford years.
Yes the GREAT Reagan still screwing up America from the grave!
And Joe Hillard where did you read the LIES about one gallon feeding so many? Its diffrent corn used for ethonal than eating! Obviously some writer lacked facts just lame ass big oil talking points.
ReplyDeleteJust like Hemp is not the same stuff former Presidents smoke but don't inhale!
And what will we do when coal runs out after a few years?
ReplyDeleteDo you people relize the fall out and disasters the NEPA rregion has endured thanks to minings aftermath?
Ever wonder why the earth keeps swallowing cars and houses in the Valley?
Yeah pimp for coal, just don't cry when the party ends premature.
Spike, you're right - a different type of corn (not for human consumption) is used for the production of ethanol.
ReplyDeleteWhere that impacts food supplies is where land that was being used to grow crops for humans is instead used to grow corn for ethanol. I'm paraphrasing the figures here, but it was something like this:
5yrs ago, 10% of all corn grown in the US was for ethanol. Last year, 38% of all corn grown was for ethanol.
You can't take that much corn out of the market without there being a major impact - which is exactly what happened.
The Banker
"Valima, I'm not one for socialist solutions so I disagree w/ you - eliminating the free market is not the way to go. In your case I'd either become a PNC customer or go to a community bank or credit union. There are big differences btw/ them and the big guys. Bernie, I'd recommend the same for you, the smaller institutions will work with you when you make a mistake (and we all do) while the larger ones won't."
ReplyDeleteBanker, when I mentioned PNC in my town, I was not speaking about how it impacts me personally, just non PNC members in general. As for the socialist solutions, I prefer more socialist like solutions as opposed to a complete abuse of capitalism, which is what seems to be the norm these days. There should be a middle ground.
What plan? Nobody in Washington has had an original idea in years! Oil is the latest drug like Heroin or Coke..We are addicts and we'll pay whatever the freight is to get our fix! We missed the alternative fuel boat a decade ago. Just another stake in the middle class guys heart! Rich get richer..
ReplyDeleteIts no where near 38%. Again carefull about facts being spewed by big oil lobby pimps.
ReplyDeleteAnd much of the ethenol production has come replacing high fructose cornsyrup.
I mean how much Soda, Karo syrup, and other artifical sweetners do we need? I think we should ween off of High Fructose and use those fields for Eth.
Also keep in mind these developers are plowing away america and PA's farms to build stepford wife approved town houses for brainless yuppie swine.
Maybe if we built less new buildings and renovated exsiting ones more we woulf have more land.