tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9299655.post8665942975761138496..comments2024-03-29T07:55:45.977-04:00Comments on Lehigh Valley Ramblings: Norco Council Too Busy With Election Year Smears to Worry About Overcrowded PrisonBernie O'Harehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13756311150988957401noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9299655.post-88177568318341296002007-05-05T22:54:00.000-04:002007-05-05T22:54:00.000-04:00Anon!When you have the time, lay it on me. I don't...Anon!<BR/><BR/>When you have the time, lay it on me. I don't think you can tell me anything about Ron that I don't already know. He is a human being like the rest of us and has many flaws. But I'll put it like this. I'd trust him in a foxhole with me. <BR/><BR/>I don't know Stoffa nearly so well, but I really like what I have seen. I make my judgments about people based on my own dealings with them, and that's why it's hard for me to accept an anonymous comments that blasts him without stating any real specifics. Please don't be offened. That's just the way I am. <BR/><BR/>Crafty infighter? Stoffa is no slouch. People who understimate him or Angle do so at their peril. But I would not call him an "infighter" or "crafty." You'll have to substantiate that. <BR/><BR/>What I like about Stoffa is probably his greatest weakness. I've called him the anti-politician. But it was Ron himself who told me that sometimes political skills are very useful when working with a very bizarre council. <BR/><BR/>In this council, it would be quite easy to divide and conquer. Hickey was an expert at that for Reibman. But this seems to grind against Stoffa's nature. If he were a crafty infighter, he'd be doing that. But he doesn't. He instead calls council and asks themn what they think. And they criticized him for that on Thursday night. Apparently, they liked being told what they think.Bernie O'Harehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13756311150988957401noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9299655.post-53751480873380288552007-05-05T22:34:00.000-04:002007-05-05T22:34:00.000-04:00Ber! I can't do it now but will be happy to get so...Ber! I can't do it now but will be happy to get some info together on why I disagree on Angle and Stoffa. Its not just me but many people who feel they will get trashed or sued (Rons tactic) if they speak up. Actually Ron is at least honest about his politics. Stoffa is a crafty infighter who has been given a pass up to now.We will get back to you. Let freedom ring.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9299655.post-7527983067497756892007-05-05T07:48:00.000-04:002007-05-05T07:48:00.000-04:00I'll agree that Ron is a master at playing to the ...I'll agree that Ron is a master at playing to the crowd. But creating something out of nothing? There have been some heavy duty problems in NC. Like him or not, Angle is the dude who shed light on these problems. <BR/><BR/>Your other point, concerning Stoffa, can be answered far more easily. Stoffa is the anti-politician. <BR/><BR/>I will and have criticized both these dudes when I think they're wrong. <BR/><BR/>I suppose I'm kinder and gentler to them because I don't think it's <EM>all</EM> politics for them.Bernie O'Harehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13756311150988957401noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9299655.post-22296589996333927782007-05-05T01:49:00.000-04:002007-05-05T01:49:00.000-04:00Zito will say it was ok. The disturbing thing is ...Zito will say it was ok. The disturbing thing is lvdem makes very good points. When it comes to guys like Angle and Stoffa, you seem to be a kinder, gentler Bernie.<BR/>I agree with you on the politics of the unholy three but it is all politics. Ron has been the master of creating something from nothing and playing to the mob for years.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9299655.post-8497559374727544932007-05-04T23:52:00.000-04:002007-05-04T23:52:00.000-04:00LVDem, I love the discussion more than anything el...LVDem, <BR/><BR/>I love the discussion more than anything else. And if truth be told, this is bad politically. I think it will backfire, but maybe not.Bernie O'Harehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13756311150988957401noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9299655.post-57483002772080690172007-05-04T12:33:00.000-04:002007-05-04T12:33:00.000-04:00actually that smell was something burning in the k...actually that smell was something burning in the kitchen. <BR/><BR/>Hey, I see our ability to have a discussion on things like this as great. We disagree case by case (each of us varying instance by instance) but if we don't have the discussion, we end up with stale back rooms. <BR/><BR/>Bottom line, I see Ron gaining person benefit from improved infrastructure. To me, that's reason to step back and recuse (I would at least). You see the benefit being off-set by a broader community benefit. Fair enough. We'll agree to disagree and let Mr. Zito issue his opinion. But understand that Angle will still have to deal with the political dimension that comes with his decision to recuse or not recuse. Legal is one thing. Political is another. If I'm his opponent in an election, I make a big deal out of it, especially now that it's been raised.LVDemhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07359661408192860813noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9299655.post-81998912996318497012007-05-04T11:36:00.000-04:002007-05-04T11:36:00.000-04:00What kills me is Angle's ethics are questioned ove...What kills me is Angle's ethics are questioned over a <B>nonbinding resolution</B>. It's just political. LVDEm is a good guy and will call things as he sees them. He'll take shots at Dems or Rs. But the only thing I smell is politics.Bernie O'Harehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13756311150988957401noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9299655.post-79832700559416545152007-05-04T10:56:00.000-04:002007-05-04T10:56:00.000-04:00Bernie --I love this smell test stuff! Like Angle...Bernie --<BR/><BR/>I love this smell test stuff! Like Angle said, McClure's voting on funding his wife's office doesn't pass the smell test.<BR/><BR/>Kind of like those Rendell Department Secretaries giving millions of dollars in grants to agencies directed by their spouses doesn't pass the smell test.<BR/><BR/>I wonder if Derty smells what Rendell is cooking?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9299655.post-74095785507951056322007-05-04T09:40:00.000-04:002007-05-04T09:40:00.000-04:00Thanks. That's very kind of you.Thanks. That's very kind of you.Bernie O'Harehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13756311150988957401noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9299655.post-91154819760209381752007-05-04T09:31:00.000-04:002007-05-04T09:31:00.000-04:00Bernie:God Bless You! For those of us that don't ...Bernie:<BR/><BR/>God Bless You! For those of us that don't make it to council meetings - thank you for keeping us informed! Keep up the great reporting!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9299655.post-10684700118934237122007-05-04T09:14:00.000-04:002007-05-04T09:14:00.000-04:00LVDem! This does not pass your smell test? And I t...LVDem! <BR/><BR/>This does not pass your smell test? And I thought I had a big nose. <BR/><BR/>My analogy was to taxes. Of course it's not the same thing but it is analogous. Under your reasoning, Angle must recuse himself from voting to cut property taxes because he would be thereby giving himself a tax break on his investment properties. <BR/><BR/>Under some citcumstances, I might agree with you. If there were no sewers at all and it was a vacant tract, the property values would definitely increase. But that's not the case here. <BR/><BR/>Now let me point out what's going to happen. Ron has already decided there's no conflict. Zito is going to come back and say there's no conflict. The people with egg on their faces will be the Unholy Three.Bernie O'Harehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13756311150988957401noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9299655.post-60200245573013735652007-05-04T09:02:00.000-04:002007-05-04T09:02:00.000-04:00I don't fault your interpretation bernie. I'm jus...I don't fault your interpretation bernie. I'm just saying I disagree. Doesn't pass my smell test. May not constitute legal conflict of interest, but perception is often reality. We've often talked about mere perception being a drag on politics.<BR/><BR/>To the point: If this was Ron's home I'd agree with your logic Bernie. But this is a specific project that impacts ron's investment properties. They are commercial ventures that are no different from an industrial park in that they are investments meant to derive income. He gets by with legal conflict of interests b/c other people in Portland benefit too, but the fact of the matter is that his commercial venture benefits. If he lives there I don't really have a problem, but he's likely to receive benefit from it directly. <BR/><BR/>If ron wants to remove the doubt, he should kick in his share of the cost as a business expense or recuse himself. <BR/><BR/>As far as the comment pertaining to real estate taxes, this isn't a tax matter. It's an infrastructure matter. When expanding/repairing infrastructure that could serve a benefit to you directly (even if it includes others) recuse yourself. <BR/><BR/>Ultimately, this will be for Ron to decide and the political consequences will be his to accept.LVDemhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07359661408192860813noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9299655.post-67346076781886535092007-05-04T08:43:00.000-04:002007-05-04T08:43:00.000-04:00LVDem,It's funny. A few years ago, Angle owned pro...LVDem,<BR/><BR/>It's funny. A few years ago, Angle owned property right along a proposed sewer line for a goofy and county-financed industrial park called Bangor Junction Industrial Park. The whole thing was a charade. The actual "industrial park" property was zoned residential, and the owner didn't even want to sell. In that case, someone complained that Angle should recuse himself, and he eventually did so. That person was me. <BR/><BR/>In that case, Angle had a tract that had no sewer system, at all. The sewer connection would have enhanced his property value. He eventually did recuse himself.<BR/><BR/>This case is not like that at all because Angle does have functioning sewer systems at his Portland properties. There is no conflict. If there was, I'd be complaining myself, as I've done before. <BR/><BR/>Just about <B>every</B> vote by a councilman has a bearing on his property values. Using your reasoning, none of them should vote on tax breaks on real estate taxes because they'd be giving themselves a tax break, too! Think about it. <BR/><BR/>The law makes specific exceptions for matters that affect the entire public or a portion of the public in which the councilperson is merely a part. It is not a conflict. It's not even close. It is politics, pure and simple. <BR/><BR/>And last night, McClure was outright untruthful when he spoke about his votes in the DA's office, where his wife is employed.Bernie O'Harehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13756311150988957401noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9299655.post-39991303811085631722007-05-04T08:25:00.000-04:002007-05-04T08:25:00.000-04:00it's one of those things that would have been nice...it's one of those things that would have been nice if he recused himself on the matter. The mere appearance of conflict of interest is harmful not only for individuals politically, but it raises questions about gov't. <BR/><BR/>Ron preaches a good game when it comes to how gov't should function. I'm gonna disagree with you bernie. Ron would have done well to recuse himself on this matter. Did the three council members go about it the wrong way, yeah (talking with Ron first, or asking Wayne to look into it perhaps), but Ron should have recused himself if only for appearance when you say he did disclose the matter 2 weeks ago. <BR/><BR/>Legal conflict of interest is one thing- passing the smell test is another. This may not pass the smell test for some people. It doesn't for me.LVDemhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07359661408192860813noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9299655.post-23308608995328343452007-05-04T07:51:00.000-04:002007-05-04T07:51:00.000-04:00Anon, Angle DID disclose the interest. First, it i...Anon, <BR/><BR/>Angle <B>DID</B> disclose the interest. First, it is a matter of public record. Second, he was asked about it 2 weeks before, admitted he owned property, and said he didn't see a problem. It was nothing more than a political hack attack.Bernie O'Harehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13756311150988957401noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9299655.post-32666705414677570082007-05-04T05:40:00.000-04:002007-05-04T05:40:00.000-04:00regardless, it would have been better for Angle to...regardless, it would have been better for Angle to simply disclose the interest. when in doubt, disclose.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com