About Me

My photo
Nazareth, Pa., United States

Friday, October 30, 2015

Differences Showcased in Judicial Debate Between Murray and Scomillio

Ten minutes before thee show, meeting room nearly at capacity
Judicial candidates Sam Murray (Democrat) and Vic Scomillio (Republican) exchanged views last night in the one and only debate they will have before voters decide on Tuesday which one of them is best suited to be a Northampton County Court of Common Pleas judge. This forum took place before a standing room only crowd of over 100 at the Northampton County courthouse. This candidates' night took place thanks to the Northampton County League of Women Voters (LWV). Lafayette College's David Woglom played the straight man, acting as moderator and posing questions prepared in advance by the LWV, as well as questions from the audience, submitted on index cards.

Woglom goes over debate procedures with candidates
This is the most important local race this election cycle. Judges of the Courts of Common Pleas are the trial judges and have jurisdiction over most civil and criminal matters. Murray and Scomillio are running for the vacancy created when Judge Edward Smith was inducted as a united States District Judge for the Eastern District of Pennsylvania. At full strength, there are nine judges and one senior judge. The salary is $178,111, and judges are elected for a ten-year term. At the end of that time, they can simply seek retention.

If the audience is any indication of who will be voting on election day, Sam Murray will win. At least 70 of the people there were wearing Murray buttons and T-shirts.

Having a largely friendly crowd seemed to relax Sam. He was himself throughout the debate, and appeared very much like the kind of guy you'd be sitting next to at a diner or McDonald's. In fact, when asked about his greatest weakness, it was McDonald's. Vic appeared stiff and wooden, very much like the kind of guy you'd see in a board room. He claimed his greatest weakness was that he would spend too much time on cases because he cares so much. That answer seemed a tad artificial.

For the most part, they agreed or had only minor differences to the tepid questions posed by the LWV, which was operating under the misunderstanding that they can only ask judge candidates about their qualifications and experience. So yes, neither will legislate from the bench. Both would impose the sentences required for hate crimes. Defendants are entitled to bail, something that many hardliners forget is specifically mentioned in the Constitution they claim to literally follow. They both think local judges should be elected. They both favor individual calendars to move cases along, which is contrary to current Northampton County practice. They both support problem solving courts.

But there were differences.

L to R: Sam Murray, LWV Bev Hernandez, Meyner Center Dave Woglom and Vic Scomillio
Experience Matters

The biggest of these is experience. "Experience matters" is the mantra that Sam repeated at least four times during the debate. He has been a practicing attorney for 32 years, has tried every kind of case, and was selected by the Court as both a Custody andJuvenile hearing Master. Vic has only half the experience, yet has circulated campaign literature claiming essentially to be the mist experienced person in the world.

This perplexed Sam so much that he called Vic out on it. Aside from himself, Sam told Vic there are lawyers and judges with 40 years of experience. How could he claim to be the most qualified?

"My experience speaks for itself," was his rather hollow answer.

Scomillio Violates Employee's Due Process Rights

This inexperience is apparent in the way he handled the termination of Jill Mancini, a former Assistant County Solicitor he fired two days before Christmas, before he was even in office himself as County Solicitor. He did it by cell phone from his car, in a conversation that kept fading in and out.

That was a terrible way to treat somebody. He also failed to accord Mancini with something that should be basic in any judge. Due process. He provided no notice or opportunity to be heard.

Mancini, who was in the audience last night, sued and won. Taxpayers are now on the hook for nearly $300,000 in lost wages and attorney fees.

Candidates were asked last night whether those costs will go up, especially since the County has appealed the ruling. Scomillio argued that any costs from that defeat would be more than offset by efficiencies he created in his one year as Solicitor. In incredulous Murray called Vic's explanation "nonsense" and predicted this fundamental deprivation of constitutional rights will cost taxpayers at least $500,000.

Working Poor's Access to the Courts

Scomillio claimed that there are safeguards in place to serve the legal needs of those with limited or no income. He pointed to North Penn Legal Services, which is funded by lawyers. Vic noted he himself has done pro bono (free) work for clients in need.

But Sam said that's not enough. "There are a lot of people who cannot afford the legal services that the people in this room can afford," he said. He noted that the budget at North Penn Legal Services has been reduced and it no longer accepts cases from victims of domestic violence or landlord tenant matters.

Police

Vic portrayed police officers as victims of violence and argued more needs to be done to help them do their jobs. While Sam agreed that the vast majority of police officers are dedicated, profiling does occur outside of Northampton County. "If I were black, i would not want to drive at night," he said.

What's sad about this debate is that not one media outlet, save for this blog, bothered to cover it. I think that, once again, they are failing in their mission to keep the people informed. If you were there, and have observations to share, please add them. I took copious notes, but I'm worse than the newspapers. I left my notebook at the courthouse. This report is based solely on my own faulty memory.

Updated 10:20 am: Notebook Retrieved. - My Notebook has been retrieved. The Council Clerk has just sent me an email, advising me, "We will lock it up until you're able to stop by to pick it up." My response. "You don't have to lock it. It is not the Ten Commandments."

62 comments:

Anonymous said...

Your overly biased account was expected. This is a nasty race from the Democrats. Probably one of the things that offends many of Vic's supporters the most is the use of County resources to campaign to either county retirees or employees. That is still being,looked into.

Since your account is so terribly biased it is essentially meaningless.

Bernie O'Hare said...

Look away. The county resources are being used for a debate between both parties. Also, very few employees were at this event. Had you been there, you would know that. I also believe my account is accurate.

Anonymous said...

Is Sam Murray paying you for these ads? Is he as solid as you other favorites, Joe Brennan, Ron Angle, John Edwards? If you support him, there's likely something very sinister in his background. Voters be warned.

Anonymous said...

Vic is not judge mat era and it showed last night

Anonymous said...

Vic is ill suited for the bench. Firing someone Christmas week speaks volumes of his character. Firing someone in the matter he did so the taxpayers are on the hook for a 1/3 - 1/2 million dollars speaks volume of his wisdom. His answers in last night's debate suggest his views are out od step with our community.

Anonymous said...

Out of step with a candidate for judge, in step for T-party zealots

Anonymous said...

Scomillio puts BULLSHIT on his flyers and can NOT defend his lies when confronted. DO the math Scomillio. You offended currently seated Judges with your lies about experience. Community Service is not one of your greatest attributes either Scomillio. When a young boy is injured on the field playing soccer remember TAKE A KNEE? you screamed at your team to stand up and NOT take a knee. Palmer Twp. parents remember you well for your lack of compassion while "acting as a coach" On Tues, November 3rd Scomillio time to TAKE A KNEE!

Anonymous said...

O'hares vitrol consistently backfires. Look at the 2013 election..everyone he supported lost. O'Hares mantra is to hate on every single person that surrounds one of his regular cyberbullied victims....and that would be John Brown. Since taking office, Brown has been the subject of constant hatred on this blog, b/c O'Hare was reduced and removed from all of the outlandish (and illegal) courthouse perks, favors and priviliages. Since that time, O'Hare has been on a 2 year war path, to destroy him.

Like a 5 year old schoolyard asshole, he has to hate Victor by association, all because he was Brown's solicitor. All though I personally do not care for Vic, for other reasons, I cannot cast a vote for Murray. With an endorsement and repeat ass kissing from the O'hare hate machine, I am left to assume that Murray is very likely a morally and ethically bankrupt mess of a person.

If Sam were wise, he would have requested that his name never appear on this blog

Anonymous said...

9;09 Since you like to make assumptions, let's assume your favorite color is BROWN and you like TEA. Let's also assume you attended the debate last night for BROWN because he is trying to distance himself from "VICTOR" before the election. A vote for Scomillio is a vote for BROWN! If I were Victor I would not have campaigned so hard with BROWN. BIRDS OF A FEATHER>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Anonymous said...

For every R teabagger, there's a D teabagee who is catching more balls in the chin lately than Johnny Bench and Yogi Berra combined. Enjoy!

Bernie O'Hare said...

6:39, I actually did contribute to Sam's campaign and should have noted that in my story. Gotta' lover your complete mislogic here, Blog Mentor. You don't give a shit about this race, weren't at the debate and just want to launch a personal attack. I could say I support you.

Anonymous said...

O'Hare's endorsement = Scomillio win. Count on it.

Bernie O'Hare said...

Let's see what the voters have to say, not some anonymous coward.

Anonymous said...

O'hare now has to pass through the security checks at the courthouse entrances like everyone else. A fat man scorned is indeed, a very nasty man. Vic wins, hands down, no worries

Anonymous said...

to the council clerk that found ohares notebook....please turn the notebook over to those in authority who can then in turn notify the proper officals that there is a sociopath on the loose who needs to be committed

Victoria Coyle said...

Bernie: Just a note about what North Penn Legal Services does or doesn't do--we do, in fact, represent victims of domestic violence and clients who have landlord tenant cases. We do not routinely represent victims in Protection From Abuse hearings. That is largely because Northampton County Court has been ahead of the game for many years and has developed a system that is pro se friendly. We have a wonderful relationship with Turning Point of Lehigh Valley, which provides legal advocates (non-lawyers) to assist victims with the court process. If a TPLV advocate feels that a victim is particularly vulnerable (language barrier, cognitive disabilities, trauma, etc.) and can't make it through the process w/o a lawyer, they will call us for help. Housing is an area that represents almost 30% of our overall caseload. We have to prioritize the types of housing cases that we can accept due to our limited resources. What this means is that some private tenant cases receive either telephone advice, or assistance w/pro se appeals. We have to draw the lines in order to spread our resources over as wide an area as possible. Priority setting is a complex process and we take it seriously--especially as we are the ones saying "no" to people who desperately need access to the courts. I know that both candidates know what we do, and if not, they will call me to ask. I just didn't want anyone reading your blog to think we don't help in these situations. If anyone needs additional information, please visit www.northpennlegal.org. Thanks for the opportunity to clarify this issue.
Victoria Coyle
Executive Director
North Penn Legal Services

Bernie O'Hare said...

Victoria, I certainly respect the work you do, but it is inadequate. i see it every day. I do a lot of legal research in the law library and see numerous people coming in on various matters in which your outfit does not get involved. I see people who will only represent at one level of the custody process, and you really do nothing for PFA victims or spouses who are wrongly accused. This is not bc the courts are so pro se friendly, as you say. Our courts do their best to treat every person with dignity and respect, but no judge can be happy to see the numerous people who are simply unable to afford a lawyer. That is the reality. I know you take it seriously and set your priorities after a great deal of consideration, but the fact remains that many people are being denied access to the courts.

Bernie O'Hare said...

11:05 and 11:11 are from Tricia Mezzacappa, who is reduced to posting anonymous slurs. I am sure Vic is delighted to have your support.

Anonymous said...

To recap: Bernie supports one guy and Messycrapper supports the other. The choice is clear. Write in John Dillinger.

maverick said...

Sam Murray, by far is the better candidate. I'm no fan of Jill Mancini, but the manner in which she was fired, should disqualify Vic from running.

Anonymous said...

Bernie's political endorsement is the kiss of death. Congratulations Colonel Phillips and Victor! And no, this is NOT MezzaCRAZY. Just someone who thinks you are a bag of hot air.

Bernie O'Hare said...

You seem to be focused on me. This post is about the debate.

Rebecca Bartlett said...

Thank you for covering this, Bernie. Our local media (The Express Times and The Morning Call) have become a disgrace to journalism.

Anonymous said...

Well Bernie this story has opened the door for all kinds of lunatics to post vicious insults about you. We are on the verge of Halloween, and these clowns are howling at the moon.

Bernie O'Hare said...

Thank you, Rebecca. I appreciate your kind words. I am appalled that newspapers would avoid a race of this importance. Allentown is sneaking in a tax hike and not one paper has written a word about it even though they know it is so. The ET compoletely missed the Council and Controller debate, and has failed to print a word about what is going on in LST. Our democracy is fragile enough and I suspect it may soon be replaced by crony capitalism.

Anonymous said...

Why did Murray not stop the unethical county mailing on his behalf?

Bernie O'Hare said...

What on earth are you anonymously talking about? I have already addressed that bullshit claim and it is a complete lie. There no county mailings going out on his behalf. To suggest that a Republican Exec and Council would even think about such a thing proves you are both stupider and crazier than your anonymous comments suggest.

Peter J.Cochran said...

Vic is a good man, but needs to let the water run under the bridge for awhile after a roughly 300,000 dollar county personnel mistake of an NC employee disposition . Well- to me that counts . Next time maybe for him ---but now, I say SAM, he's away's given me the time of day and always gave the children he had something to do with in court procedures -the time. Good luck all .

Anonymous said...

Scomillio was hand picked by the patrician elite. The soccer story above displays his true colors. Only the republican straight ticket zealots can ignore the real elephant in the room - costly legal incompetence. Did he even mention John Brown and his solicitorship as part of his cast experience???

Anonymous said...

6:46 Precisely correct, and the soccer story is also true and correct. the mailer I received from Scomillio, with Giordano just cost Emil my vote. Sorry Emil, maybe next time.

Bernie O'Hare said...

That's very foolish on your part. You are obviously a partisan hack looking for some way to sabotage the campaign of someone who has broad bipartisan support and is immensely popular in Northampton County. What you fail to realize, Dumbass, is that Giordano is likely going to get Sam elected. Here's why. In order to win statewide, Giordano needs to win very bug in NC and he needs lots of votes from both parties. He's going to get them, too. When those Dems come out, they will be voting for Sam in addition to Giordano. It happened in Hanover in the primary and should happen everywhere now. If you want Scomillio to lose, then you should embrace Giordano.

Try thinking for once, if you can.

Incidentally, i have no idea iof the soccer story is true and would need to hear it from someone who was there and tells me who she or he is. That's obviously not your style.

Now go out and steal some signs, idiot.

Anonymous said...

The E-T may have missed the debates but its fearless leader did have a riveting story today about upgrades to a Palmer township car wash.

Anonymous said...

OCTOBER 30, 2015

Bernie:
You r too smart to think of notebooks. (I tell myself that kind of stuff)
Scomillio said: "costs (Mancini) offset by savings" ???? it is one more painful lie.
budget for 2015 is about 90K less than 2014 BUT in 2014, they budgeted 2 full-time for 2014 and did not use the $ because they dumped the full-time people. (2 days before Christmas: joy to the world--and her 4 kids) The County used the excess from 2014 in 2015 and made the budget look good---don't let anyone say otherwise.
flash forward: 2016: solicitor budget--proposed--is about 12K--yes, 12K- net budget savings is 12,000.
--Mancini, if she was there could have asked: "scomillio were a judge and you had a plaintiff who was promised in writing and verbally and WAS HIRED according to ALL THE REGULATIONS AND POLICIES---100% (county did not know its own rules) that she was career service WHAT WOULD YOU DO? In other words, does this judge have the courage and integrity to say: “notwithstanding the potential negative political consequence: this plaintiff, mother of four who has supported herself since age 17, has rights. Defense, you lost your motion to dismiss, your summary judgment, your motions in limine and plaintiff won a verdict, which you remarkably tried to say did not exist--
What if the resolution was in the best interests of everyone----
--- except those with political ambitions--
Would you take that to the third circuit where you have at the best 13% chance to win on OPM? Where fewer than 3% of attorneys from District Court (or any court) go?
Look up David Lee Schwalm --he's the defense counsel
Bernie-its too late for the election--it's just about what people should be if they want to be ANYONE with power.

Anonymous said...

Very sad this was not televised or at least covered by both Valley newspapers. Judicial debates used to be broadcast on Channel 39. What has happened to their 'community interest'? So we're left with one reporter who has an obvious bias toward Mr. Murray. Let's face it both candidates bring different experience to the table. The number of years is less important than the quality of the experience. One of our best judges, ever, was Alfred T. Williams, and he was in his late 30's when he took the bench with virtually no trial experience. He was one of the best trial judges in the Commonwealth during his time. When you 'drill down' you see that Mr. Scomillio has really significant experience in many facets of the law...and one of the most important--serious felony litigation. He has tried the most serious of criminal cases up to capital murder matters. These are cases that require immense experience and focus. Mistakes at that level can mean life or death. Further, he never said he was the 'most experienced of all attorneys'. Any reasonable reading shows he was comparing himself to Mr. Murray. Finally, what was most disappointing was seeing Mr. Murray yelling at Mr. Scomillio. That was the demeanor of someone we want on the bench. To me, it was quite telling that a calm, rational approach to addressing facts and the law may be lacking in the approach he would use in his courtroom. I believe both men are qualified, but that the County will be better served by Mr. Scomillio's election.
'

Bernie O'Hare said...

It's unfortunate that only I was there to provide perspective. I do support Sam. I don't recall seeing Sam yell at anyone, let alone Vic, during that debate. Also, Sam has twice the experience that Vic has. That's just the way it is, and Vic has misrepresented that to voters. Nor should he compare himself to Williams. In that race, Williams and his opponent, Michael Franciosa, had an equivalent amount of experience. That is not so here. Most people can do the math. Murray has twice the amount if Vic's experience, has tried capital and homicide cases, and has a varied practice. Vic has cost taxpayers $300,000 in his role as Solicitor. That's bc he is inexperienced, not evil or dumb. I'm sure Vic would be a great judge. I think Sam is just a better choice.

Mary Ann Cadden said...

I am not a Northampton County employee and never was. When I was a Juvenile Court court reporter for five years in the court over which Sam presided, I was a per diem contractor. During that time thousands of cases were heard and decided by Sam, as the Court-appointed hearing master, and his case disposition Orders were signed off on by a Court of Common Pleas Judge. During often long days in court, Sam had to weigh the testimony of psychiatric professionals, caseworkers and other experts in rendering his final decisions.
Plain logic dictates that Sam is the candidate with the judicial experience. His outstanding legal acumen, judicial temperament and sense of fairness are already in place to now take on the job of Judge of the Court of Common Pleas of Northampton County.

Anonymous said...

I'd like to consider Murray but I'm not comfortable with his campaign being financed by DA Morganelli, seems like a conflict to me.

Interesting that you didn't mention that when you were listing Murray's campaign contributors.

Bernie O'Hare said...

His campaign is certainly not being financed by the DA. John gave $500, which is just 0.3% of the total raised by Murray. I did not mention a person who gave that small a sum. Obviously, you don't want to vote for Murray and are looking for an excuse to do the partisan thing instead of what your head and heart must be telling you.

Anonymous said...

Sam will not win because the DEm's don't vote and O'Hare's belief that Giordanno will pull D's for a state judge race is foolish.

Anonymous said...

I get it, you don't think the donation from Morganelli is a conflict.

But you had no trouble reporting a $500.00 donation to Scomillio when you wanted to imply something nefarious.

Disingenuous?

Bernie O'Hare said...

Not at all. The $500 I noted is part of a $1,500 donation by Norris McLaughlin, and no nefarious implication was made. Under your logic that accepting $500 from a DA is a conflict, it would also be a conflict for Vic to take $1,500 from a law firm with an active practice in NorCo Court. So your thinking is both illogical and dishonest. It's pretty clear you never had intention of supporting Murray.

I am untroubled by donations from law firms to judge candidates. They often give to both candidates. It is not about gaining influence, not at this level. If the contribution is high, then yes, there would be a conflict. But as I observed, what Morganelli gave is minor and no more than a token of good will.

You are attempting to create an issue about Sam that you are ignoring in Vic. So before you call anyone else disingenuous, try looking ina mirror, anonymous.

Anonymous said...

Morganelli is not one of the dozens of lawyers that donated to both Murray and Scomillio.

Morganelli is the District Attorney of Northampton County.

That he is showing preference toward someone who wants to be the next judge is problematic.

I'm surprised you don't agree.

Bernie O'Hare said...

I don't agree, especially when iris 0.3% of Sam's total. You are grasping at straws and being inconsistent.

Anonymous said...

I don't think I'm being inconsistent at all.

I believe there is a difference between donations from lawyers and a donation from the District Attorney, our county's chief prosecutor.

That DA Morganelli would so blatantly show a bias toward a judge candidate makes me really uncomfortable.

As much as you attempt to trivialize the amount of the donation, the fact that it exists is the larger problem.

Bernie O'Hare said...

Then you should be just as outraged at all the big firms contributing to Scomillio, and giving him larger percentages of his fund. But that does not bother you bc you are a hypocrite.

Anonymous said...

Which is why judges should not be subject to partisan elections. The federal system of selecting judges does a much better job at vetting a person's qualifications. Yes, "politics" can be involved with any system employed, and in the feds way, getting a nominations usually means having been involved to some degree in local politics. But in the end, the over quality of the federal bench is much higher than the state because of a more serious vetting process. The average voter has no clue who these candidates are, and it's even worse at the appellate level, where the percentage of corruption among our appellate level judges--especially the Supremes--is tremendously skewed. Melvin, McCaffrey, and now Eakin. Let's not forget ol' duo of Larson and Papadakos. Got to get the $$$ out of judicial selections. It's highly improper for lawyers and citizens who will be appearing before judges to be giving their campaigns money. Yes, they say they are 'removed'. That's like saying there is no "coordination" between Super Pacs and national candidates' campaigns. It's a fraud, but that's the way the politicians want their judges, and so it's all "legal".

Anonymous said...

Apparently the "county mailer" frequently mentioned was not sent by the county officials. An employee stated that it was sent by a private individual who used a picture of the county seal. It went either to some employees or retirees. How or why is still unknown.

Bernie O'Hare said...

It was nit frequently mentioned. It was mentioned by you, and you were wrong.

Anonymous said...

Appears that this 'forum' was a complete waste of everyone's time and energy, and whatever money expended by the League. If only 100 people appeared--all of whom were supporters of one candidate or the other. Their minds were already made up. The forum was not covered by the TV, Radio or print media. So to whom were the candidates speaking???

Anonymous said...

Appears that this 'forum' was a complete waste of everyone's time and energy, and whatever money expended by the League. If only 100 people appeared--all of whom were supporters of one candidate or the other. Their minds were already made up. The forum was not covered by the TV, Radio or print media. So to whom were the candidates speaking???

Bernie O'Hare said...

My coverage of the debate was seen by 6,026 people. It is likely that half of those are in Lehigh County. Of the 3,000 people who read this blog in Northampton County, let's say 2,500 have made up their mind. This story could influence the remaining 500. Seeing over 100 people at that debate was encouraging to me, even if they were mostly supporters.

Anonymous said...

As if police officers being attacked by criminals was not enough. Now Sam Murray attacks them by saying cops are racist. Sam Murray is not mentally stable.

Bernie O'Hare said...

He never said that. Go take your drug cocktail.

Anonymous said...

In the current mailer from Scomillio, he outlines his edge in experience by number of appearances at the Supreme Court or something.

Anonymous said...

Perhaps Morganelli prefers Murray's take on social justice? Is a DA not allowed to show preference in how the justice system works?

Anonymous said...

The right's response to police killing unarmed people is to say "but, but, but another cop was killed today. Don't you oppose the killing of police?"

Well, yes, I do. But cops got killed on the job by criminals long before Freddie Gray and it's always been a risk of their profession. Nothing has changed as far as mourning the loss of an officer. The two issues are mutually exclusive: A) police should show some restraint and B) police should not be killed in the line of duty.

Anonymous said...

No. It taints the entire court system. No DA should help buy a judge a seat on the bench. And no Judge should allow it either.

Fair and impartial is the goal.

Bernie O'Hare said...

I doubt that 0.3% taints anything.

Anonymous said...

But it does taint the system.
There is a difference between contributions from lawyers and a contribution from the district attorney.
A presiding judge could and should recuse him/herself from any case where he/she believes there is a conflict because of campaign contributions.
But, there is no way a judge could sit out every case brought by the District Attorney.
Morganelli showed very bad judgement offering this contribution.
And Murray’s campaign showed a great indifference to any appearance of impropriety.
Shame on them both.

Anonymous said...

I know you do not think $500.00 a lot of money, I do.
Consider the defendant in Northampton county, who because of circumstance is represented by a public defender.
I’ll wager that person thinks $500.00 is a lot of money.
Then consider how that defendant will feel knowing that the guy who is prosecuting him helped pay for that judge to sit on the Northampton county bench.

Anonymous said...

We received a mailer from Scomillio today. It had a table showing how often Vic Scomillio had appeared before various higher courts, vs how many times Sam Murray had appeared before each of those courts.

I wondered what that had to do with anything, as Vic Scomillio is running for the Northampton County Court of Common Pleas...that is the venue where he will be carrying out the duties of the judgeship, should he win the election. I would like to know what his qualifications and experience are for the duties of the local county court.

Also, his mailer showed how many times he appeared before those higher courts, but did not provide any info about outcomes. Did his arguments prevail, or not? Let's see a table addressing how often he was successful in those appearances. Just askin' Crazy Old Lady

Bernie O'Hare said...

12:16, I don't think any defendant will be troubled by the fact that the DA gave a judge 0.3% of his total funding. By your lofgic, neither Naratta nor Roscioli should be judges. They received far greater sums.