Of course, the ethics of this venture probably should have been discussed before the 2009 law was enacted, but better late than never. Is it ethical to divert state resources from children's health programs to help turn millionaire J.B. Reilly into a billionaire? Is it ethical to enable developers like Reilly to offer reduced rents to other Lehigh Valley businesses, and at a time when Bethlehem's Martin Tower sits vacant? Is it ethical for all these NIZ developers and other beneficiaries to be so involved in financing the campaign warchest of Allentown Mayor Edwin Pawlowski? Is it ethical to refer to the merchants displaced for a new hockey stadium as a "cancer"?
Hopefully, these and other questions will be asked during a DeSales University breakfast forum about the ethical implications of the NIZ on June 7, called Who Is My Neighbor?
You practically have to be a millionaire to attend. It's $25 a pop. But it might be worth it. J.B. Reilly will be there for a Q&A session.
44 comments:
I hear the NIZ is going to host a roundtable on the ethics of centuries of institutional systematic child sexual abuse.
Bernie
Do you have the time and room and I don't see it. Need 3 pr glasses guess.
This is an excellent idea on the part of DeSales. Surprised they got JB to attend.
$25 is expensive for breakfast. Why charge anything. Serve coffee and make it free.
they don't want bottom feeding bloggers or poor people to attend
"This is an excellent idea on the part of DeSales. Surprised they got JB to attend."
He denies poaching. He denies $8 per sq ft rentals. I guess all those realtors are exceeding the scope of their authority.
$25.00 will keep many from attending. Please reconsider.
New book: "The Rich and the Rest of Us." At $25. per eggs and toast, guess who will be here.
Google "China's Ghost Towns" and you'll see the folly of government building schemes.
excuse my ego, but with two advocates for the arena, and the merchants having asked me to attend the city meetings with them, the college should have considered inviting me or a displaced merchant. apparently, academic pedigree is more important to them than facts. the major moral transgressions have already occurred.
my comment should have said, inviting me or a displaced merchant in addition to steve thode
NIZTAVIS FOR THE RESTAVUS!!
He is outnumbered.
What? First Business Matters now DeSales? How come no one pays respect to Geeting? How come no one invited him? He has the solution to all problems. Just ask him.
DeSales has asked Geeting to clean toilets after the event. He's already parking cars prior.
Two months ago, DeSales informed its entire staff, via memo, that they will no longer offer health care benefits as of August, due to Obamacare requirements that Catholic institutions pay premiums to cover abortifacients.
NIZ bullshit pales in comparison to this. Are employees still losing their health care in August at DeSales?
Retired ASD teacher here.
Sad the public question & answer portion is only 15 minutes long.
so will there be a real public Q&A or will it be, as every other NIZ meeting, just a chance for the host to ask questions of the guests?
I'm still waiting for the "public discussion" the city promised us. so far we have had, time and again, a "public forum" where there was no public debate. no chance for one person to ask a question and everyone to hear the answer. I hope this changes but I doubt it, too many people have real questions they want answered and, as was proven to me when I was able to privately ask sara hailstone questions in november, that the city either does not know the answers or they don't want the public to know them.
Retired ASD teacher here.
Elijah, it's now obvious this scheme was NOT ready for prime time before spending began.
The outrage over this process seems to be growing every day. Good comments at the Express Times. We are now seeing specific details being questioned by the public. That's a healthy sign.
As far as I'm concerned, Allentown can build its arena, even with limited public help. I assume the arena will be publicly owned. My problem is with awarding previously-dedicated taxpayer dollars to private developers who retain all the rights of ownership. Those dollars weren't collected for the private gain of a small number of chosen citizens.
Taxpayers THROUGHOUT Pennsylvania have a right to be concerned by such practice.
BY JUNE 7 THERE WILL BE NO MORE NIZ TO TALK ABOUT!!
retired said:
"...My problem is with awarding previously-dedicated taxpayer dollars to private developers who retain all the rights of ownership. Those dollars weren't collected for the private gain of a small number of chosen citizens."
That about sums up this sorry misadventure.
I doubt many deny Allentown needs help. I doubt that anyone is against an arena, per se, although a debate may rage about the location...
The reality is noted above and is well stated.
VOR
The college has to recoup the cuts in grants somehow... so rent the lot for the traveling circus to come to town and sell tickets.
Something tells me we are going to see much more of these types of events in the Private-Educational Mecca that is the Lehigh Valley.
I think this issue is bigger than Allentown.
Should the law be upheld, you'll have every desperate city lobbying for their own bigger and better NIZ.
You know...ones that cover half or an entire city like Reading or Scranton.
The state gives up a lot of revenue between all the KOZs and host of other programs that either scratch out taxes altogether or have them come in slowly. You add in NIZ all over the place and you have a much more serious revenue problem in a state already looking under sofa cushions for revenue.
" I assume the arena will be publicly owned." RASDT
yes it will be publicly owned, but we have already signed a 29 to 49 year lease with the brooks group (the lease is for 29 years but there is an option to extend it another 20 years)
the details of that lease are that over the frist 10 years there will be a total of $6.7 million collected, after those first ten years the rage goes down to $1 a month or for the remaining 39 years a total of $468
is this different then a publicly funded private development? only in name as we are giving it away for less then the taxes that would have come in from it if it was just owned by the brooks group.
Wow. Why not expand this debate and consider the Ethics of taking funding from Preventative Healthcare to fund low interest rates for College loans?
That's exactly what the GOP House did two weeks ago. Once again, playing politices with the health of America.
VOR 1018. I get the concept of effort to spur more development in Center City. What Revitalization benefits are there in building in East Side Allentown or Bethlehem?
How would the taxpayer get more bank for its buck with limited opportunity other development opportunities.
A lot of different opinions on the NIZ, but everything isn't black and white.
Isn't there a critical difference in using funds due the state already and funds that will only exist if there is new investment?
I know there are concerns about poaching and property value reductions, but it isn't just transfering existing state funds to this area.
It also is an area in size much smaller than a number of local projects. The poaching potential relative to all the projects in the LV doesn't seem that significant.
Allentown development should not be impacted by the pathetic Martin Tower design. It could take decades to find a use for that dog.
"but it isn't just transfering existing state funds to this area." ~ anon 12:52
Really? show me one way there is money going to the developers that is new money. go read the legislation. All the money used to pay off the bonds is existing taxes that would have gone to the state or local municipalities. much of the money going into the NIZ would have gone to schools through out the area (EIT taxes and state funding for schools that is no longer there as the state loses the most from the NIZ)
Playing politics is when you force religious institutions to cancel health care for employees because you want them to pay for morally objectionable drugs and procedures; all for the sake of an unconstitutional scheme that is about to be struck down. Obamacare is anti-choice just like the NIZ, which will also be declared unconstitutional. Should have thought this through before making that big hole that will never be filled.
1:04
If you don't build the stadium there are no new taxes. The schools and municipalities aren't giving up existing revenue on the stadium.
Sure, if the stadium is built and there was no NIZ the taxes would be lost.
It is the incremental tax that is the question.
Retired ASD teacher here.
1:34 -
Allentown's NIZ plan blows a hole in the state's budget for the coming years. Do you honestly believe the state will be content to leave the revenue void unfilled? I anticipate new taxes, new fees, etc. to surface due to this kind of chicanery.
Besides, there's no cap on the "free" construction fund offer. This is written as a blanket call to access public funds for private use. Nice.
Where will state revenues be when Scranton, Johnstown, among others want in?
Forcing others to fix problems resulting from your mismanagement is immoral. Allentonians were not forced to elect the leaders who delivered the current state of the city. In fact, there hasn't been political drama in Allentown in a generation. They love their leaders and elect them by large margins. Allentown's problems did not occur overnight. They were gradually orchestrated by those who received great electoral support. This is not anybody's fault but Allentown's. Enabling Allentown to continue to pursue the same tired policies of the same tired leaders is immoral.
Ha ha.
Nice try, Anon 3:08.
Republicans just want to kill women, children and old people as soon as possible - after they have stolen all of their money, of course.
Ha ha.
Has the past four years under Obama not taught you anything?
Please pay closer attention.
Thank you.
ALLENTOWN DEMOCRAT VOTER
I live in one of our valley’s cities (NC) and work in a township. I support Allentown’s NIZ efforts.
1. Do you really think Allentown has been the victim of 50 years of poor leadership while the success of the townships is based on 50 years of excellent leadership? To believe that is naive.
2. Allentown School District, which is the local SD most in need of help, will gain several million in annual taxes.
3. NIZ Funds must be spent within the zone. The city is holding back some of the loan money from developers. So those streets, programs, parks, infrastructure, etc. in the NIZ can be paid for by NIZ funds. That is a significant burden taken off of the city.
4. The only way Allentown will redevelop is with state funding assistance. Other state assistance programs come out of state coffers too. I would rather state assistance be spent in my area (the Lehigh Valley) rather than elsewhere.
5. The better Allentown does, the less Lehigh County townships have to support it.
6. Allentown hosts more than its fair share of non-tax paying entities - the symphony, arts centers, non-profits, museums, parks, hospitals, county & state government buildings. Allentown should push out all of those pesky tax-evaders and let the townships pick them up and shoulder the burden for a while.
7. Martin tower is a dog and should be torn down. Out dated systems, no sprinkler, terrible office layout – an effigy to a corporate malfeasance.
While I don’t agree with everything you write, I do appreciate someone willing to keep tabs on government and be a rabble rouser for items that might otherwise get swept under the rug. I think the powers that be screwed up in the process here, but again, I still support the end goal.
I was taught to help my brother when he needs it. That guiding principle applies to this situation too.
Hooray for the people. People neeed to ask more questions. When Stoffa trid to dump Gracedale, the county home, we had to dig to find the truth.
Like the NIZ, there was a rush to push it through. After examination it was obvious that not all the facts were out there.
People power saved Gracedale. Good luck to the people on this deal.
Very true, I am a living fact of there actions that has local parasite baffeled.
@4:07, the buildings torn down to create the current hole paid over 100,000k in school taxes. it is unclear if the arena and whatever is built, will pay any school taxes at all. currently the entire parcel is taxfree, under ownership of ACIDA.
factual information is very hard to come by. watch the designated speaker for the city tonight attempt to shout down legitimate questions, instead of providing answers. WFMZ69 8:00p.m.
ANON 4:07 ----
You stated "I was taught to help my brother when he needs it. That guiding principle applies to this situation too."
That is I was taught to help my brother when he needs it. That guiding principle applies to this situation too.
ANON 4:07 ----
You stated "I was taught to help my brother when he needs it. That guiding principle applies to this situation too."
That is I was taught to help my brother when he needs it. That guiding principle applies to this situation too.
Make it $50.00 a person.
Bernie
Can you find out if DeSales is really dropping medical coverage?
Thank you.
well I was going to answer anon 4:07 but MM got to it first, I would however like to point out that the NIZ keeps all EIT from everyone who works in the NIZ. A good chunk of EIT goes to the school district where the worker lives. So the NIZ not only destroyed $100,000+0 a year in taxes to the school on the block from 7th to 8th the mr. Molovinsky pointed out but it is also taking all the EIT that would go to schools from the entire 130 acres.
ANON 407 you stated "I was taught to help my brother when he needs it. That guiding principle applies to this situation too."
That is a great philosphy to live by and I am sure you are a great person.
This situation is different and the people that instituted the NIZ are not of such great moral cloth as you.
What we have here is not someone helping their brother in need, but rather a ne'er do well that has decided to steal from you to benefit himself. There was no request for help, the only justification is a self-centered greed to acheive a perceived equality.
This is a sin no matter what philsophy you live by, and no matter where you live.
Sorry
meant to say
the only justification is a self-centered greed to acheive a perceived ENTITLED equality.
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